Hardware?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by tommy2k8, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    I have got a laptop that started going slowly, freezing at times, slow shutdown and updates. I did a malware scan, virus check, disk check, scanned the file system with chkdsk - found errors so did chkdsk /r and that corrected them, machine (it's a Sony VAIO) diagnostics were all ok. Still same hangups.
    I decided to reinstall the OS from scratch, but it didn't make a difference - still slow at times. Disk still ok, but this time I installed Speedfan:
    Disk temp is 36C
    Core temp is between 50 and 54C.
    Temp1 (in the middle) ranges from 44C to 48C.
    SMART data is fine, except the Temperature is 107 (Worst is 98).
    The model is Sony VAIO VPCEF3E1E
    W7 64-bit, 4GB RAM
    Western Digital 320GB HDD.
    AMD Dual-Core P340 @ 2.2GHz.
    ATI Radeon Mobility HD4200 display
    AVG 2015
    I am running out of ideas!!!
     
  2. satrow

    satrow Major Geek Extraordinaire

  3. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    I did that - I also used Speedfan - attached are some screenshots from both.
    I think the Core and the Temp1 figure in SpeedFan are the processor temperatures?
    It is a gradual slowdown as well, not immediate.
    Also, as I have a disability and cannot take computers apart, my mate came and took it apart - fan looked as clean as a whistle).
    The laptop is also using just over 2GB of its 4GB! I haven't got a clue on what should be using that much!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  4. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I have always found speedfan temperatures difficult to assign. I managed to do it by comparing its numbers with other monitoring programs, it has a nice graphical quasi-real time display though.
    Try coretemp (downloadable from MG I think), a free piece of software which is an executable which you do not have install and which will tell you the temperatures of your individual CPU cores and the max. allowable temperature. It rapidly updates these temperature unlike e.g., speccy and sandra
    Also, you could try looking at the processes running using Windows Task Manager, to see if there is a process hogging your CPU. I don't know if this could cause crashes, but it certainly could appear to freeze you computer. It could give you an idea of what's using your memory as well (but I've never really understood why the memory taken up by a single process is always much less that the total memory used shown in the graphic screen). 2GB out of 4GB doesn't like much, I run with often 6GB/8GB but at that level of usage my laptop starts to get slow.

    Dumb_Question
    20.November.2015
     
  5. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Thankyou. Core Temp reports the processor temperature as 51C, and it is only using 1.2GB RAM at any one time. However, now, the Windows 7 splash screen jiggles up and down on the screen for about 2 seconds and then normalises - I don't know if this is significant.
     
  6. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I'd expect coretemp to report 2 temperatures for a dual core CPU ?
    IDK about windows splash screen jiggling

    Dmb_Question
    26.November.2015
     
  7. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Strange - Just ran CoreTemp again - only showed one core at 50C, but HWMonitor shows both cores at 50C! The SMART monitor though says that the Temperature 'Value' is 118 and the 'Worst' column is 98, should that mean a thing?
     
  8. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I can't explain why coretemp is only showing one temperature: my version shows 2 temperatures, the whole window is shown in the attachment. It might be that coretemp doesn't support your CPU ?

    Check what exactly SMART monitor is telling you. Are the values in F ? or some renormalized scale where 100 is good ? I thought SMART monitors gave disk temperatures and properties ?? see this http://superuser.com/questions/429639/howto-interpret-smart-attributes or other articles on interpreting SMART values - in the link I gave note the value against temperature is a 're-normed' value, which usually means that it is not in C r F ! I read in another article that the temperature is stored in the last n-bytes (I can't remember the value of n) of the RAW value.

    Dumb_Question
    27.November.2015
     
  9. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    These are all the temperatures and data from HWMonitor
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I didn't look at your earlier pictures but this from HWM seems toshow everything ok, I don't know what all the values are supposed to be, though., esp. battery voltage, are you running from mains ?

    Are there any programs that you run when you get the symptoms ? Those symptoms are often experienced when your computer isn't getting enough power, though there can be many other causes. I don't know how to eliminate this as a cause in a laptop

    I have found that chkdsk doesn't give you a good idea of disk health. Use HD Sentinel to look at SMART params of your disk. Load WinDLG from www.wdc.com; that will also tell you SMART data and perform 2 types of scan a a short one and long one, looking for bad sectors. HD Tune will also scan the disk for bad sectors and give you an idea of where they are (shows a low res. map), maybe they don't do anything HD Sentinel won't, in which case scan the whole disk using that. chkdsk won't necessarily tell you about bad sectors

    Dumb_Question
    27.November.2015
     
  11. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Everything seems fine. I have done disk scans, tried a new power supply, no difference at all. Have tried on psu, off psu, same. No other programs are running when these symptons occur. Memory test is fine (used Windows Memory Diagnostic.) No clues to any overheating or errors in the Event Log. It would be very time consuming to swap all the parts out, and I don't think that it would make any difference. I could try getting a can of compressed air and blowing it at the fan, but it is not getting overly hot and the fans aren't making strange noises. Apart from that, I don't know what elese to try.
     
  12. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I can't think of anything either.
    Does your laptop have on-board or integrated graphics capability or is that what Radeon Mobility HD 2400 is ? Can you switch to that ?
    very unlikely but have you tried an external VDU ?
    Does it work ok from battery or bin another location ?

    Else I'll have to leave you hanging on this one, and just hope someone more knowledgeable is able to help..

    Dumb_Question
    30.November.2015
     
  13. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    That's where the Radeon is.
    Good idea, I will try an external display.
    It behaves the same from another location and on the battery only.
     
  14. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    it's very unlikely to be the display, less unlikely to be graphics system. It seems there is no easy way to check your graphics card, which is, I think, a Mobility Radeon HD 4250 (is this your computer - http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/content/cnt-specs/VPCEF3E1E/list ?). I don't know what other might be supported, or how much (how little) you could pick up a working one for.

    Dumb_Question
    30.November.2015
     
  15. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Well, I thought changing the disk wouldn't hurt, so my friend helped me to change it, and I installed Win 7 on it. The new disk (I have had it in since this morning) has worked fine! No more problems (so far!)

    However, now I cannot use the Recovery Partition, or the Recovery Media, as there is an 'error'!

    I rang Sony, asked them if I can order Recovery Media, and they said because I changed the disk, I can't, because the recovery media is embedded with an encryption algorithn for the original disk and the recovery media won't work on any other disk!
     
  16. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    Well done. At least you're up & running again, but a new retail O/S set you back many $s

    What's the recovery media I this case ? Optical disks that you made from the original disk ?
    I your o/p you said you "decided to reinstall the o/s from scratch..." - was this from the recovery partition ?
    What I'm thinking is that your original disk and/or recovery partition may have been corrupted not by disk damage, but just changes the software. I that case your recovery partition if used wouldn't work, neither would media made from your original disk.
    Sony evidently do not cover the case of the whole disk failing. You presumably tried using the recovery media to recover your system onto the new HD ? I'd get in touch with Sony again and ask them what they do in the case of total disk failure and dog ate recovery disks or you can't find them or simply that they don't work ? Didn't they think of that ? They must be able to reconstruct the disk (contents) given your computer's s/n.

    Dumb_Question
    1.December.2015
     
  17. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    I made the recovery disks when the problem first happened.
    First of all, I recovered from the recovery disks, and when that didn't work, I then tried from the Recovery Partition, but that didn't work, due to 'not finding a file' (it didn't tell me what it was!)
    So I used my own W7 CD, and the manufacturer product key. This worked, and didn't - worked as the license key was correct, didn't (and I had to ring Sony for this) because I had used my own CD's and not the Recovery CD's. (I did explain that I had tried both methods of recovery but this didn't make a difference to them!!)
    I rang Sony again yesterday, explained to them that the old hard disk failed, and I couldn't use the two recovery methods. I tried once, then again! They said that as I had changed the disk, even Recovery disks wouldn't work, as the product key is linked to Sony's operating system on the original disk!
     
  18. Dumb_Question

    Dumb_Question Sergeant Major

    I give up. If Sony can't cope with recovering from HD failure, er, well
    You might find the missing file, could be the root of all the problems, it might be a OS file that can be commonly sourced (from MS even). If you are unlucky it will be a file specific to your machine. start another thread on how to find "missing file" in W7 or something; there are sure to be others who know more on this topic then I do (which isn't saying much). Do Sony have a forum ?

    The fact that you made the recovery disks after problem started probably is why they don't work - they have the original fault built-in, though IDK how/where from they are made.

    Dumb_Question
    1.December.2015
     
  19. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Yes, I will try there, and if no luck, I shall ring MS tomorrow, they may give me another product key.
     
  20. davismccarn

    davismccarn Specialist

    I have used almost every flavor of the Win 7 SP1 DVD's which were available from Microsoft directly until Windows 8.1 came out and have never once had the key from the sticker on the PC fail to activate. (As a note, I mean I am approaching a thousand times) Did you use a genuine M$ DVD with SP1?
    Also, everything you say screams an impending hard disk failure and I noticed your drive has recorded G shock events which means its shock limits were exceeded. I have used http://www.hdtune.com 's utility for almost a decade now with the real test being the error scan. It takes a long time; but, even one red box and you found your problem. You need the Pro version for almost all modern PC's; but, they offer a free trial.
     
  21. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Ok, thankyou. How did you notice the G shock events (never heard of them!) limits were exceeded?
     
  22. davismccarn

    davismccarn Specialist

    They show in both the Speedfan SMART and the temps images you posted. Hard disk drives are seven times more fragile than a raw egg when they are running and, beginning in about 2011, almost all laptop drives have a shock sensor (G-shock) built-in so the laptop manufacturer can tell you you voided your warranty.
    P.S. I've been fixing PC's for almost 39 years now and started doing data recovery in 1978 so I know what to look for.
    That error scan will tell you if its your problem.
     
  23. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    Oh, thankyou. If you tell me which attribute to look at, I will know if there is a next time. (However when I did an error scan with HDTune it didn't there weren't any red bits!)
    A friend of mine helped me to put another hard drive in (he had a spare one), put Windows on it, and it works like a dream - so thankyou.
     
  24. tommy2k8

    tommy2k8 Private First Class

    The thing is, now, I cannot find recovery media for this model anywhere! As you know my ones I created don't work, and as I used my own Windows 7 DVD, I don't know if there is a way to create them! If I go back to Sony and ask for recovery media again, I will probably get the same response, and if I find somewhere the recovery media on the web, is it worth the risk buying them considering the palaver I went through with Microsoft activating it?
     
  25. davismccarn

    davismccarn Specialist

    In the speedfan SMART image you posted, its listed as GSense Error and the data value was C5 which is 197 decimal. If the error scan showed all green and it wasn't the quick scan, you probably would have noticed an area where the Scanning Speed in the lower right slowed to a snails pace which is rare; but, I have seen it before.
    Modern hard drives are themselves another computer which keeps historical information in what's called the system area and are supposed to be able to correct minor defects. One of the first symptoms of impending failure is long, inexplicable pauses or delays which we see as a slowdown or freezing.
    You may need to use another PC; but, find the support page for your laptop, download the drivers for any missing hardware (touchpad, wireless adapter, and sound are the most common with 7), copy them to a flash drive then onto the laptop, and install them. You won't have the "goodies" that came with the original; but, you won't have the junkware either. Here: https://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/VPCEF3E1E
     

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