Tradies May Go "cloak And Dagger"...?

Our ASIO (Australian Security Intelligence Organisation) are now targeting Tradies (i.e. plumbers, carpenters, brickies, etc.) in a new recruitment drive to build an army of spies.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s/news-story/331f589fdf25b6a3aa95ff1dea1140fd

Hmmm...I always thought anyone acting as a spy who takes on the persona of any particular profession/trade would need to have those skills to carry off the game anyway...go figure.

 

I think it's a great idea.
We should all keep our eyes and ears open without actually spying or snooping.

 

Hmmmm...agree when it comes to general public safety, crimes...or if such tradies are going to be used on specific cases. I know such practices are already in place.

This sounds like something new. There are privacy laws that would need to be considered. Only just come into the news, I'm interested to see what/how it's going to be outlined.

 

Can't read the article without subscribing, but I would also think you'd have to have the requisite skills in order to pull off working a trade regardless of why you were doing it. I mean, if I hired a plumber or whatever and got a spy who couldn't actually fix my sink, I'd be irate. Can't really speak to the spying aspect since I couldn't read the article, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

Same here.

 

Sorry about the site...try this one:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...s-to-apply-for-jobs-as-surverillance-officers

Cheers

LS

 

Ah, now I get it. They're encouraging current tradespeople to apply for jobs as spies, not vice versa. Well... It sounds more like your intelligence service is hurting for people with life skills, so they're looking for people who are established as tradespeople but who might be looking for a change of career. I had to look up the currency conversion, and of course I don't have a clue what constitutes a living wage there, but that's a pretty decent starting salary especially for someone who might be tired of doing physical labour for a living. Here, it might be a slight hit in pay for someone established in a trade, depending on which one and whether or not they're unionized, but it wouldn't be bad. That's about average here for an established plumber, for example.

But it would make sense if they trained people who already had trade skills as spies. It'd be a whole heck of a lot easier to place them in situations where they wouldn't be noticed. Like in my broken sink scenario... If I was under surveillance for some reason, they could easily send someone in to repair my sink and also have a look around while they did it. I now understand your privacy concerns, and will be curious to see how that shakes out as well.

 

Sorry about the site...try this one:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...s-to-apply-for-jobs-as-surverillance-officers

Cheers

LS

 

Yes

That salary would be a helluva cut to what an established tradie would make a week/month/year! Drive around some top suburbs with great looking houses and parked outside are the owners’ vans/trucks (the Tradies). In Australia good, well established Tradies can pretty much make on par as a professional (e.g. some lawyers, medical specialist). I know a few and gone to their houses (er…mansions).

By the way, our Australian dollar has gone down (worst it has been in years) as at today 0.71AUD vs 1.00US. Regardless, the pay is still not that great in comparison to what a good tradie can make.

We're on the same page.

 

They obviously need people with actual trade skills in order to have them covertly spying whilst still being able to do jobs for people of interest to ASIO. Also ASIO could arrange to place tradies long term in maintenance positions within companies they wish to keep an eye on. If they didn't use tradies then their operatives wouldn't be able to hold the job down for too long without arousing suspicion and then the mission may fail.
$77,000 starting pay is pretty good money and if you were successful after a couple then I expect this would rise to somewhere near $100,000. Starting with ASIO with a university degree in a relevant subject the starting pay is close to $100,00 and if successful your pay would be rising in less than five years to about $150,000 plus extra allowances.
How do I know this........ ASIO were recruiting people doing the IT and network design & security course my son was doing at the same university my son was attending and because he was also in the university computer hacking club he was on the short list

 

Some of the tradies I know see $77K - $100K still below what they make. (I believe them given what they charge on projects.)

Yes, with a uni degree a government jobs would start around $100K and higher if one has multiple degrees and better if also a Masters. For some years, ASIO has advertised graduate positions which start around the $77K which for a new grad would be great pay.

Wow! Now how cool is that! You must be a very proud dad.

 

I disagree as the tradies in Victoria that work for other people rarely break $90,000 a year and a lot of casually employed tradies who only work three or four days a week only earn about $60,000 a year.
The tradies who do make the money are the ones who have worked their way up to be the business owners and now still work on the tools themselves and they also employ other tradies. A close friend owns a plumbing business employing six tradies and he makes $250,000 but his highest paid tradie only gets paid $72,000 a year plus a van. The other tradies he uses besides the plumbers he employs are casuals and come to work only when required and they include carpenters, tilers, carpet layers, electrician, painters and glaziers and I know he only pays these trades $28 an hour flat but they are covered by his workcover insurance and also his public liability insurance whilst on the job site.
Another very close friend owns the largest print finishing business in Australia and employs 150 people including 70 tradies and most tradies get paid less than $70,000 per year. The only ones to get a bit more are two foremen and three leading hands and they still get less than $90,000 per year.

So the key thing here is if you are a tradie in Victoria...... to make big money you need to have your own business but owning your own business then has lots of overheads like insurance, premises, power, water & light, vehicles and if you have employees there is holiday pay, long service pay and the government mandated minimum superanuation paid into an approved super fund. Then owning your business has the uncertainty of not always having enough work and then there are the customers that are slow to pay. With all the associated worry a lot of tradies are happy just to work for someone else even though they get less money but at the end of the day they just go home as they don't have all the stress involved of running the business.

 

I’m talking NSW and then I’ve found Tradies’ prices for exact same work will vary dependent on whether North/South/East/West of Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Northside in Sydney they’re pretty expensive (which are the ones I mentioned)…and then these guys have their own company name and sub-contract as required so they don’t have ongoing staff costs. They’re smart with how they contract as the sub-contractors carry their own costs. He follows legal advice to ensure requirements are met re public liability, WorkCover, Superannuation, sub-contracting, and any other areas he needs to ensure are properly covered.

Using one guy I know, on one project which he completed within a 4 month period, he cleared around $100K after costs. He takes on 2-4 projects per year depending and project costs vary. He started poor and worked his way up and as you mentioned sometimes may still “work on the tools” depending on the work type.

I'm not familiar with Victorian prices, but Sydneywise it varies depending on the suburb for the same job.

I expect and agree the type of Tradies ASIO would be targeting are more as you stated those that “are happy just to work for someone else even though they get less money but at the end of the day they just go home as they don't have all the stress involved of running the business.“

Normally these are the ones with the happy wife and kids who see and enjoy their dad before they get to bed.


Thanks for making some great valid points and the detail you provided.

Cheers

LS

 

Hey ls in a previous life I started out as an "A" grade electrician special class and was also a qualified electrical contractor and in the late 1970s I even had my own electrical contracting business with several employees but I got out of that in the early 1980s as it was too hard to win decent sized jobs without bribing someone At that time corruption was commonplace and because I didn't pay bribes, I was finding most of my submitted commercial tenders were getting beaten by $100 or less thus I was not winning the job and found domestic work too changeable and uncertain if you are relying on that income to pay your employees. I continued in industry working building robots and went back to school part time after hours (to University) and did electronic engineering and never looked back
Since the mid 1980s I have always worked in a research and development engineering environment mostly as Department Head for two very large international companies. I specialised in printed circuit board design and also the technology related to complete robotic assembly and testing of the PCBs I or my team had designed. In my last job my department was responsible for developing over 100 designs and with more than 100 million PCBs produced and out in the field in all places around the globe

 

You sound like a prime qualifier for an ASIO position should you choose!

I can just see you jelling in seamlessly with a former colleague who is still at an IT company I used to work at. Reckon if ever you two were to get together your wives would probably want a divorce for being ignored!

 

Hehehe no government jobs for me as I like to have a sense of achievement in my work and in government it seems like you are a water drop dripping on a giant unyielding stone block....

..... and yep I sure do like a bit of tech talk and probably would fit in seamlessly as currently I am working as an IT Admin (went legally blind in 1999 so stopped PCB design and electronic engineering in 2002)

 

Depends which and type of government job. Some can be quite rewarding, particularly when networking on certain projects with other like minded government and non-government agencies.

With your wealth of knowledge, you'd be what an old friend in IT used to call like persons he dealt with..."a National Treasure".