How To Install Os On External Usb Harddrive 1 Tb ?

Discussion in 'Software' started by Wrenchman, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Hi, not sure if this is the right forum!

    I bought a 1 TB Seagate Expansion Portable Drive and would like to make a Full Bootable Ubuntu 14,04,3 install on it.

    I would also like to partition it for multiple purposes, so that when I want to format Linux it won't format the rest of the drive, without having to make a complete backup, is that possible?

    I have already looked at YT videos, but I'm still not sure, the videos doesn't seem to apply to my case.

    So I'm thinking about using YUMI to BOOT, I have Win 7 on the other hard drive, which is on it's last days.

    I do have a 2 GB pendrive if necessary. I don't have any DVD to burn ATM so I hope I can do without

    It will be cool just to be able to bring your OS with you on the go.

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  2. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

  3. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Hi Eldon thank you for your reply, I'm kinda insecure on how to do the procedures and I would like to end up with a permanent Ubuntu not just a live USB, can you recommend a step by step that apply to my specific needs?

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  4. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    If you want permanent, you need to use a CD-R or DVD-R/DVD+R.

    I think you're misunderstanding what a Live USB is. External HDDs and Memory Sticks/Cards, are formatted. Unlike CDs/DVDs, you can install/uninstall software, save/edit files, etc.
    Here's more info.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_USB

    You first partition the USB drive and then install Linux on a partition.

    FYI While CD-RW, DVD-RW & DVD+RW can be formatted, it's no longer a feasible option - it takes to long and uses too much of the disc capacity. I recall formatting a CD-RW using InCD required about 150 MB!
     
  5. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    What I want is an OS installed on an external hard drive,(afaik it's a notebook hard drive in a case, with a USB 3.0 plug) where I'm able to save settings and information and then bring it with me wherever I go, being able to boot in any computer, whether the term is Live USB or not, I admit I'm too inexperienced to argue about that, I'll have to take your word for it.

    Can you recommend a complete step by step guide that apply to my specific needs?

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  6. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

  7. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Thank you, that page was already bookmarked, so with your personal recommendation, I will look more carefully at it, and I'll come back and tell you how it goes and also if I have any doubts.

    BTW. I would like your personal input as to how a 1 TB drive should be divided(partitioned), I mean it's an awful lot of space?

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  8. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    OK, I'm almost there, I have made the USB stick with Rufus and it's ready to Boot. (have not been tested yet)

    I am now trying to decide how much space for /root /swap /home /boot /ext4 - pretty confusing right!

    I have 4gb ram, so I'm thinking 10 GB /swap, I mean I have a 1000 GB, so why not!

    The first one is /root (ext4) right? what about a 100 GB /root, I don't want the system to get stuck in the near future, does all the private media go to /root, or is that saved on a different /partition?

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  9. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Sorry for all the 'bumps', I just want to state that I'm writing from try Ubuntu, I was very impressed with how fast it opened in sec. and I didn't have to mess with BIOS it was all ready to go.

    So far so good, I used to have MINT, but now I want to try Ubuntu, so It's all new to me, it has been more than a year since I stopped using mint, I hardly remember what happened, oh I remember now the old HDD broke down.

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  10. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Linux Mint is Ubuntu based (there's also a Debian based version).

    You can install Windows OSes to USB drives beginning with Windows 7 BUT, you'd need to purchase Product Keys and even then if you don't get volume license keys, you can only use USB Windows on the computer the USB drive was originally connected to. Otherwise, you only end up with the 30 day trial version (watermark in lower right corner of desktop).
     
  11. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    I'm an Ubuntu user, exclusively, but I just saw this thread as I'm not on here much anymore. Eldon, mdonah, and especially Plodr usually give good and reliable advice and it looks like they have this well in hand. It appears you're well on your way. FWIW, your thread title is a little misleading, as it originally sounded like you wanted to install Ubuntu on an external usb in the same manner as someone would install on a 2nd hard drive, and dual-boot, choosing between them at startup. But as I read this thread, your desire to pull the external usb and take with you changes the procedure significantly. If you do the first...dual-booting...the linux bootloader (GRUB) will scan your hardware for bootflags and will present those options to you for selection at time of boot; without your external USB, your "boot" chain will likely be broken. There are ways to address this (YanniBootRepair), but not sure what the long-term implications are. What you REALLY want is portability of an OS and that is a LiveUSB with PERSISTENCE. As a matter of clarification, a LiveCD (if optical medial) or LiveUSB (if usb flash media) is somewhat of a misnomer, as the OS runs entirely in RAM. You can absolutely install and run programs from a Live environment, but all changes are lost at shutdown. Think of a Live media as a "snapshot"; it can be restored, you can work with it; you can modify it; but you cannot save it! UNLESS you add persistence to the Live media...which is where I see you headed...you are on the right track!

    A 1TB drive will provide PLENTY of disk area...awesome! To answer your question(s) above, I'll chime in with my opinions, but you know what they say about opinions! FWIW, the key partitions are the /root and /swap partitions. If they're too small, your system will either not install, not load, or not run correctly; if they're too large, you will have significant wasted space that you will NEVER grow into. The /home partition needs to be the largest, as that is where your user configuration/preference files and data files will reside.

    The /swap is most easily addressed. Swap is basically RAM for a system that does not have enough. In the old(er) days, a good rule of thumb was 2x RAM, not to exceed 4GB; in todays world I'd suggest that a max of 8GB is PLENTY, unless you're a graphical designer or some other similar high RAM user. For most of us, 4GB to 8GB is plenty. You've got the space, so give yourself 8GB and rest easy. Next up is /root partition. Generally speaking, the entire Linux OS and all appurtenant programs will fit into an 8GB-10GB space. Even if you go crazy and install dozens of extra programs and hundreds of themes, icons, and similar customizations, you are still likely to be around 12GB or so (I have just described my Ubuntu setup, BTW!). So I'd suggest you provide your /root partition 22GB and you will have more room to grow than you will ever need. This will account for about 30GB of your usb drive; use the remainder for /home and persistence.

    I've never had cause to create or use a LiveUSB with persistence, but I believe that "persistence" is its own partition, so I think you will have 4 partitions, rather than the typical 2 or 3. I hope Plodr chimes back in, as she has extensive experience working with LiveUSB. My advice regarding partition sizing is good, but her advice regarding LiveUSB creation with persistence should take priority over mine. FWIW... Good luck!
     
  12. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Hi, Hedon James and mdonah and
    DavidGP.

    It was DavidGP that got me on track, it was exactly what I was looking for, having guides within the guide, very useful.

    About the partition space, it's difficult for a newbie because there are no strict rules for the most part and being green on the subject, you basically just want predetermined numbers, so I'll go with Hedon James.

    I will convert to GPT

    Let me try to explain what I will do:

    /root = 22 gb
    /swap= 8 gb
    /home = ? gb
    /usr = ? gb
    /tmp =? gb
    /var =? gb


    I have read that the more partitions you have the less you have to format if that becomes the case, I'm just trying to understand what each one is needed for?

    I assume that / needs to be partitioned first after that /swap in that order, Hedon James mentioned first swap then /(you don't have to write the name /root, right?)

    OK, so I already have a live USB(working) with, as far as I know, no persistence but no problem for now.

    I want to focus on the 1tb physical install, this is not liveusb(RAM) this is External USB HDD Install, and for now it will be only Ubuntu Boot, not dual boot, win 7 is located on another HDD.

    As for right now, if I want to test or install Ubuntu, I insert the LiveUsb and turn on the computer

    When I have installed Ubuntu on USB 1TB, I will no longer need USBliveRAM, but I wonder if I need to install the same Rufus bootloader as I installed on usbLIVEram, well I guess not since it is a complete install.

    Whenever I want to use Ubuntu I plug in the USB1TB and start the computer(any computer)

    If I want to load Windows or whatever is installed on the original internal hard drive, all I have to do is, not insert the externalUSB

    I also need to clarify that in near future I will install liveandroid or some other android on the USB1tb(not virtual), plan on using it in the car.

    Please correct me if I am wrong!

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  13. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Thanks for the additional information. Based on your additional input, I'm not sure a Live USB with persistence is the correct solution for you, for 2 reasons: the "persistent" partition is formated with FAT32 and is, therefore, limited by FAT32 size limitations; and I'm not sure a persistent LiveUSB can be dual-booted (future Android install).

    And my earlier comment regarding boot issues from a full installation on external USB appears to be incorrect. I'm amending that comment to state that as long as you install Ubuntu on the external drive, AND the drive is plugged in, you will get a dual-boot menu selection to choose OS at startup; if the drive is unplugged, the Windows boot manager will just boot the installed OS; if you plug the drive into a foreign machine, and you set the BIOS (UEFI) to allow USB boot, you will get the dual-boot GRUB menu from the external drive again. Based on your input above, I think THIS is what you want:

    http://askubuntu.com/questions/446682/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-portable-external-hard-drive

    and follow along with the first suggested answer, with 8 votes of "best answer"
     
  14. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    P.S. You're getting too detailed with your partitions, and appear to be confusing partitions with directories. Technically, the Linux file structure is comprised of 2 partitions "/" and "swap". "/" is referred to as the root partition, even though there is a root directory within the root partition. The root directory is for the user "root", which is the only user with permission to change system files/directories. Back to the partitions...there are usually 2, "/" and "swap"; the swap directory is basically a RAM partition. The "/" partition consists of several directories, discussed in this article:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/117435/htg-explains-the-linux-directory-structure-explained/

    However, as a matter of convenience the "/home" directory CAN be mounted on a partition outside of the / directory (and automatically creates "symlinks" from the /home directory to the externally mounted /home directory on the Home partition). This allows the /home directory to be accessed and/or utilized by multiple OS in a dual-boot or multi-boot configuration with no fear of data corruption. This also allows the complete upgrade of an OS (perhaps upgrade from Ubuntu 14.04 LTS to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS in 3 months?) without affecting your /home config files and data (Docs, Pics, Music, Vids, etc...). You definitely want this!

    When installing Ubuntu on the external usb, you want to choose the "something else" option and follow along with this fairly recent tutorial:

    http://askubuntu.com/questions/343268/how-to-use-manual-partitioning-during-installation

    Personally, I would skip the optional step #7 (which seems to be what you're asking about). It is optional, it complicates matters significantly, I have never seen it done or known anyone who has done it this way, and I don't know what the practical application or use case would be to warrant this option. You're in new territory, so keep it simple for yourself. Install Ubuntu on your external usb, by booting into a live session, clicking on the "Install" icon and starting the built-in installer (Ubiquity):

    - make CERTAIN you're installing to your usb target (most likely sdb, assuming ALL OTHER external drives are disconnected; *highly recommended*)
    - with target drive verified, choose the installation option "something else"
    - follow along with the second above link

    When you decide to add a 2nd Linux/Android OS to your external usb at a later date, you will again choose the "something else" option. Similar to the above, but slightly different:
    - select the /swap partition mount location already existing, but you will NOT format, as it will already be formatted appropriately from your Ubuntu installation.
    - select a new "/" root location for the new Linux/Android OS and format appropriately (most likely EXT4)
    - select the /home partition mount location already existing, but do NOT format, as it will already be formatted appropriately from your Ubuntu installation.

    Repeat as often as you like, for as many OSes as your system will allow, or until you run out of drive space! :cool:
     
  15. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    I'm having the impression that a few misunderstandings have occurred!
    That is exactly what I want, I'm sorry you have been misled
    Well, I don't see how that changes anything, sorry for my ignorance, how does it change the procedure?
    OK, so I'll go with /root /swap and /home, but I will still need space for android and all the backup information from the other WIN 7 HDD to be stored separately on the 1tb HDD, with the ability to access the information anywhere with any OS
    AFAIK, persistence is only for LiveUsb, my system will eventually not be a LiveUsb but a HDD with all the info saved on the disk, not saved temporarily on RAM, again please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Neither do I, glad we got that out of the way, although a Live USB with persistence is a cool thing.
    Yes, well OK then, you're the Boss.
    So true, I will probably learn along the way.

    As a last thing, would you recommend doing a pre-partitioning prior to installation, that is, getting the HDD formatted to GPT and partitioned with /root /swap and /home, (what size would you recommend for an expanding user given that /home is only for Linux?), with all the right sizes ready to install, I ask this because when I looked at the instalation process last night, some options didn't seem to be present.

    Should the remainder of space(un-allocated) be NFTS? Probably around 750GB maybe less. maybe even divide it into four partitions, in case I need to format one of them.

    Thanks,

    :D

    Wrenchman
     
  16. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    First, allow me to disclose a lack of familiarity with GPT conventions. I haven't had to format partitions, etc... on newer hardware (yet!), so I've only dealt with MBR issues. With that said, I think you said your WinOS was Win7, which more than likely uses MBR conventions. With that said, GPT eliminates many of MBRs limitations and if you're comfortable with the differences between the two, you should probably go with GPT to "future proof" your install. (And perhaps you can educate me on the finer points of MBR vs GPT considerations...but that's another thread)

    If you were using the entire drive for a Linux install, I'd suggest you do your partitioning from within the Ubuntu installer. No sense in turning a 1-step job into a 2-step. But since you're going to use the majority(?) of the drive as a Windows Backup Partition, this might be a good idea; although it may be a matter of "6 of one, half dozen of another". I can't really recommend partition sizes without knowing exactly what you're backing up, how often, whether it's incremental or complete, etc... So how about I make some general and generic suggestions, and you feel free to tweak according to your thoughts. It is YOUR machine, and YOUR decision, after all!

    Based on your thoughts above, create 2 partitions on your drive using gPartEd, one 750GB for Win backups and one 250GB for Linux distros (plenty for multiple OS in the future). Format the 250GB FIRST, as EXT4, so it will appear as sdb1 and be slightly more in accordance with the tutorial references. Also, I believe that an OS at the "front" of a drive may perform better than in the "rear". Format the remaining 750GB as NTFS and label it WinBAK or something to indicate to yourself that it's your backup drive/partition.

    THEN, I would proceed with the referenced tutorial for installation to the external usb drive, ensuring that you're installing on the 250GB partition, which will likely be sdb1 if all other usb drives are disconnected during the installation (highly recommended! ask me how I know that?! LOL!). As referenced before, I'd recommend 8GB swap, 22GB "/", and the remainder as "/home" (approx 220GB). When you go to install an additional linux distro in a multi-boot configuration, the installer will "probe" the partition and announce that it has located an installed OS and will ask what you want to do: "erase drive" and install linux distro in its place; "install linux distro side-by-side", choosing between each at boot time; or "something else". Obviously, you'll choose "something else" and proceed with the installation as referenced in the post above, but when choosing "mount" partitions for /swap and /home, you will NOT format them, as they'll already be formatted. Choose your "/" root file system (carved from a section of /home) and finish the installation. Upon successful installation, your 250GB "linux partition" should have 1 swap partition (8GB), 2 "/" partitions of 22GB each (44GB total), and 1 /home partition (now 208GB +/-).

    Does that make sense?

    Conversely, if it makes more sense to you, I see nothing wrong with installing Linux on the usb drive FIRST (formatting partitions in the process, from within the installer) and verifying a working installation. Afterwards, "shrink" the /home partition with gPartEd, leaving a 750GB "empty" space; formatting that empty space as 750GB NTFS partition; and labeling it as a WinBAK partition/drive. Choose whichever makes the most sense to you in order to accomplish the task.
     
    Eldon likes this.
  17. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    As far as partitioning, the OP could create an NTFS partition of 750 GB (698.63 GB) on that 1 TB (931.51 GB) drive leaving 250 GB (232.88 GB) of unallocated space at the beginning of the drive using AOMEI Partition Assistant Standard Edition. The Ubuntu installation would go on the unallocated space at the beginning of the drive and automatically create the root/, swap and home EXT4 partitions it needs. The NTFS partition could then be used for USB Windows installation(s) and backup(s).
     
  18. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Additionally, for the drive to be truly portable, the OP needs to install the 32-bit version(s) of the OS(es). If he installs the 64-bit version(s), they won't run on a 32-bit PC he may plug the drive into. 32-bit OS(es) will run on both 32-bit AND 64-bit machines.
     
  19. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Interesting, I haven't thought about that, I could eventually put in both a 32bit and 64bit OS
    I downloaded it and it looks very potential, nice interface lots of options, maybe slightly advanced for a beginner.

    There's this button "Wipe Hard Drive" what is that about? Oh nooo .... :eek:

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  20. Eldon

    Eldon Major Geek Extraordinaire

    That will wipe/delete/remove all data from the hard disc.
     
  21. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    While I don't run Linux except on my old Precision M70 laptop (Mint 17), I have several 500 GB USB hard drives with two partitions and 32-bit Windows installed on one and 64-bit Windows on the other. I also have a 1 TB USB hard drive with 3 partitions and Windows 8.1 on one 250 GB partition, Windows 10 on a second 250 GB partition and a 3rd 500 GB partition for data. I used AOMEI to create the partitions because the other partitioning software I use specifies in MB rather than GB and GB is easier for me to figure out.

    You also noticed I listed actual sizes of the partitions and they are less than what the hard drive manufacturer states. That's because manufacturers use 1,000 GB to indicate 1 TB when in actuality 1,024 GB equals 1 TB.
     
  22. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Hi again, I tried to install last night, but some issues occurred!
    (not so automatic if you ask me)

    First off let me tell you what I'm doing: I'm using mdonah's method 750 ntfs in the end and 250 unallocated in the front


    Here are some details of the system right now:
    DISKPART> list volume

    Volume No. Ltr Rótulo Fs Tipo Tamanho Status Info
    ---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- --------
    Volume 0 F Audio CD CDFS DVD-ROM 454 MB Íntegro
    Volume 1 K NTFS Partição(partition) 199 MB Íntegro(healthy) Sistema START
    Volume 2 C NTFS Partição 453 GB Íntegro
    Volume 3 D RECOVERY NTFS Partição 11 GB Íntegro
    Volume 4 E HP_TOOLS FAT32 Partição 103 MB Íntegro
    Volume 5 (...?...) Removível(can be removed) 0 B Nenhuma m(no media)
    Volume 6 (/root) Removível 0 B Nenhuma m
    Volume 7 (/swap) Removível 0 B Nenhuma m
    Volume 8 (/home) Removível 0 B Nenhuma m
    Volume 9..............J.......Part 4.........NTFS.........Partition.......174 GB.......Healthy
    Volume 10............I........Part 3.........NTFS.........Partition.......174 GB.......Healthy
    Volume 11............H.......Part 2.........NTFS.........Partition........173 GB......Healthy
    Volume 12............G.......Part 1.........NTFS.........Partition........173 GB......Healthy

    O disco 5 é o disco selecionado.

    DISKPART> list partition

    Partition.......N#. ........Type.....................................................Size......................Offset
    ------------- ---------------- ------- ------------
    Partition.......5 ...........Unknown(/root)(ext4)...................22..GB....................1024 KB
    Partition.......6 ...........Unknown(/boot)(ext4).....................8..GB........................22 GB
    Partition.......7 ...........Unknown(/home)(ext4)..............204..GB........................30 GB
    Partition.......1 ...........Primary(NTFS)..............................174..GB.......................235 GB
    Partition.......2 ...........Primary(NTFS)..............................174..GB.......................409 GB
    Partition.......3 ...........Primary(NTFS)..............................173..GB.........................583 GB
    Partition.......4 ...........Primary(NTFS)..............................173..GB.........................757 GB

    I'm pretty sure I did something wrong :confused:

    The Live Ubuntu Install, says:
    If you continue , the system might get unstable, because you have 3586MB unused in front of the disk; go back and format; do you wish to continue.

    You have no /root; please go back to partition and correct the problem.

    So....?

    I have tried to correct the "problem" in G-parted(linux try ubuntu live), as you can see above, but I have no clue right now.

    About the four NTFS partitions(173GB/174GB): I did that on purpose: you know, I just think it's cool that way; other than that I followed mdonah's suggestion.

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  23. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    What is the purpose of all those extra 173/174 GB partitions?? Did you initialize the drive as GPT? Start over and blank the drive. Initialize it as MBR (you did mention possibly installing Windows 7 to the USB drive). I run Windows 8.1 AND Windows 10 on MBR disks. MBR disks will work on both UEFI based computers and BIOS based computers. You'd need to make some changes in UEFI settings though. But that's another discussion.
     
  24. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    I like it like that, it's like having various different hard drives, yet in the same unit 5in1, it's just innovating.
    Yes it's GPT (good point taken) :D
    I see no reason to format, it's not like it hurts the Linux installation process, btw. If I ever install Android that will be on one partition, a Windows install will go to another partition, the old windows HDD backup(important information, not windows itself) might go to the third partition and so on and so forth.

    Now, coming back to the Ubuntu installation, I'm still not clear on how to accomplish the task, do to the problems that I have been running into!?!

    Btw. I have not studied into the differences of UEFI and BIOS neither MBR and GPT, I have no idea about what it means or what it does.

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  25. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    To try to get a better handle on things I took my 500 GB "Backups" USB hard drive and split it in two leaving half of it unallocated. I then ran the Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon DVD I have and decided to try and install Mint 17.3 to the unallocated space. — Wrenchman, you're correct — it's not so automatic.:oops: Someone with more Linux installation experience is going to have to help you with the Linux installation.

    But, on the other point of GPT drives, if you plug that GPT drive into a 32-bit machine, it simply won't work because of the inherent limitations of 32-bit. There can be no more than 4 partitions (4 primary OR 3 primary and 1 logical) on a 32-bit system. For this reason, a 32-bit computer that comes with UEFI rather than BIOS has it's hard drive initialized MBR instead of GPT. GPT simply can't be used.

    Remember that MBR disks and 32-bit OSes CAN be used on ANY machine. Hence, true portability.
     
  26. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    mdonah's advice in post #25 is spot on. to be perfectly honest, I hadn't even considered the potential issues of portability with 32-bit vs. 64-bit systems, which also opens the door to GPT vs MBR partitioning and possibly UEFI vs BIOS. For maximum portability, your external drive OS should be 32-bit, and for the same reason, they should be on a MBR partition scheme; which means you will have to enable "legacy boot" on newer UEFI-enabled machines. OR, you go the GPT-partition scheme route for as many partitions as you like (you can have 1,000 1GB partitions on a 1TB drive, if you want!), and install 64-bit systems, with the knowledge you have NO CHANCE of booting from 32-bit systems. The 1st scenario at least provides the opportunity of universal booting, limited only by potential quirks of UEFI as "locked down" by certain manufacturers; the 2nd scenario just throws in the towel for all 32-bit systems.

    It's your call Wrenchman, but I'm in agreement with mdonah on this one. If you choose to continue with your GPT formatted drive, I think you're actually very close; but you might as well install 64-bit OS, as GPT is incompatible with 32-bit.

    I'm not familiar with the software you're using to create partitions, so I have no frame of reference, but it looks like you intend to install LinuxOS on Partitions 5 ("/"), 6 ("swap"), and 7 ("/home"). Is this correct? I'm not sure it matters, but you have created 3 "physical partitions" instead of 1 "logical partition"; I'm sure this is "do-able", but this greatly complicates a "simple" task. LOL. And somehow, starting at the back of the drive and working forward (as evidenced by your partition numbering scheme), it seems you have an "unused" area in the front of your drive, which may cause the drive to be unstable because the "cylinders" and/or "sectors" don't line up for indexing. I believe this is what the message your partition software is referencing about the "3586MB unused in front of the disk". This is shown in your Volume Index as "Volume 5 (...?...) Removível(can be removed) 0 B Nenhuma m(no media)"...it is the ONLY volume that is unrecognized.

    Personally, I would definitely re-format the drive. Use a MBR partition scheme if you want maximum portability and compatibility with other 32-bit systems; but you will only be able to install ONE other OS on this drive in that scenario. If you choose a GPT scheme, you can install as many as you can fit on the drive, but you will sacrifice portability with 32-bit systems. There is no middle-ground "best solution" that I'm aware of. You must make a choice.

    Once the choice is made, create ONE partition for LinuxOS (250GB?) at the front of your drive; even format it NTFS and label it if you want (we're only trying to make it easy for the installer to find and identify the partition we want to install on; we're going to reformat to "swap" and "ext4" in the installation process anway). THEN create the additional NTFS partitions you want, stacking them "behind" the intended Linux partition, one at a time. (helpful hint for future reference, vary the sizes slightly for ease of future identification of correct partition for future installs...such as 200GB, then 175GB, then 150GB, etc...; OR label them at time of creation, even if only generic labels, i.e. "Partition 6", "Partition 7", etc...). With drive re-partitioned and formatted, you can attempt Linux installation again, ensuring installation on 250GB drive (looks like it will be sdb1? if you follow steps described).

    Proceed with the Linux installer, choosing the "something else" option referenced in the tutorial link, choosing partition sizes (8GB swap, 22GB "/" root, and remainder "/home") and formats discussed above. You should be good to go. FWIW, I think your mistake was starting at the back of the drive and working forward to the front; ALWAYS start at the front and work backwards to minimize risk of index corruption by offsetting cylinder/sector alignments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  27. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Can't remember the last time I ran into a 32-bit system - is this really an issue? It's the CPU we're talking about, not the installed OS.
     
  28. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Agreed on the 32-bit system. They're not making them anymore, and every year a few more die off. Eventually, they won't exist. But for clarification, the CPU dictates the OS; a 32-bit OS will run on 64-bit CPU, but 64-bit OS will NOT run on 32-bit CPU. I don't know Wrenchman's individual usage case, but if he needs 32-bit compatibility, NOW is the time to have that discussion. Just trying to provide him with all the necessary information for him to decide what is best for his computing needs.

    FIW, if it was me, I'd go 64-bit and GPT all the way. I'd have a spare 32-bit Live system on a small 8GB stick for those RARE occasions when I had to have 32-bit compatibility (or even a LiveCD for those even more rare instances where the system is so old that it can't boot from usb!).

    But this is Wrenchman's machine and is not my call.
     
  29. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Actually, you can have 128 partitions on a GPT drive.

    I have a 1 TB internal MBR drive that has 3 versions of Windows running on it. My external 1 TB MBR drive has two 32-bit versions of Windows on it and a third partition for data but, if I wanted, I could install a 3rd OS after moving the data to another drive. I use the external drive on a 32-bit Precision M70 AND a 64-bit Latitude E6400.

    However, I had mentioned Product Keys in an earlier post. I had the good fortune of getting Volume License Keys for Win 8.1 Pro, 8.1 Enterprise and 10 Enterprise so, I don't have to change keys and activate Windows every time I switch laptops.
     
  30. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Sorry for the delay, my system was attacked by a virus , the zika virus.

    I succeeded the install, but it does not boot, only black screen, I've read it's the BIOS Power-On Self Test and if you wait long enough it might start.

    ubuntu:

    free 33mb
    /boot 1024mb
    /root 22514mb
    swap 8187mb
    /home 221120mb
    free32mb

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  31. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Even without much else to go on, I'm fairly certain your issues are either GRUB (boot software) related, or graphics driver related.

    First things first...from the beginning...do you get the GRUB menu at boot time? If you get the GRUB menu (with Windows as the last selection on the list of boot options), with the screen going black after making your OS selection, this is most likely a graphics driver issue, simply fixed with a "nomodeset" flag on the GRUB menu at boot time.
    An all-inclusive link for possible fixes:
    http://askubuntu.com/questions/1620...black-screen-what-options-do-i-have-to-fix-it

    If you do NOT get the GRUB menu, this could be an issue with boot flags. To troubleshoot, will your computer boot to Windows WITHOUT the usb drive attached? If it does not, this may be a GRUB issue on the usb drive, repairable with Yanni's Boot Repair:
    http://www.howtogeek.com/114884/how-to-repair-grub2-when-ubuntu-wont-boot/

    With the drive connected, do you have the usb drive booting first in the BIOS boot menu, or do you manually tap F8, F2, F12 or something similar to call up the boot selection menu, selecting the boot drive from there? And when the drive is absent, will the computer BIOS move on to the next available boot device? Similar to booting from a CD/DVD.

    Lastly, will the usb drive boot when connected to a different machine, tapping the appropriate <F#> key to invoke the "boot from external usb" option?
     
  32. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    I do not get the grub menu, it's all black with a cursor blinking

    Windows will boot because it is installed on a different hard drive, having it's own boot software

    I have just installed Linux Reader and found something; although I specifically asked to install boot in sda1 /boot(it's empty) it was installed in /target /boot /grub

    Linux swap; can't open disk: 8gb 0,00 used

    According to AOMEI; ext4 /boot 1 GB has a total of 49,36mb used, but linux reader says there's nothing there

    AOMEI; /home (size) 204gb, used 3,39gb: linux reader says lost+found folder 16kb

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  33. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Unless you have a typo, installing the bootloader on sda1 is your issue, but I'm a little confused. We didn't discuss installing a separate /boot partition and I'm wondering why you went that route? I'm a little out of my knowledge zone now, as I don't know what the ramifications are of doing it the way you have chosen.

    Your windows machine hard drive should be device sda and your external boot drive should be device sdb (this can be confirmed with gParted or similar partition software). Installing your boot software (GRUB) to sda1 should present a GRUB menu, but only able to boot windows unless your external drive is connected; but you said you don't get a GRUB menu? How is Windows booting? Using the Windows MBR?

    You want GRUB on your external device, with your Linux OS. If your external drive is unplugged and you take it with you, you will need the GRUB boot software on the external drive, or you will not be able to boot.

    Try the HowToGeek link regarding BootRepair, and make sure to choose the option to "place GRUB in all disks", exactly like the example:
    http://www.howtogeek.com/114884/how-to-repair-grub2-when-ubuntu-wont-boot/

    I believe this will fix your issue. (Fingers crossed this does the trick for you, but I'm a little uncertain.) I guess we're both learning now? :confused:
     
  34. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    Well, if the boot partition is separate it's easier to change afterwards.
    No, seriously I have no idea why, I just read about it and thought I would do the same.
    It's not a typo and it's not the windows partition, the truth is I unplugged the windows hard drive from the computer before installing Ubuntu to the ext hard drive, that's why everything went /sda.

    I have suffered data loss too many times to be fooling around.

    Boot-Repair-Report:
    http://paste.ubuntu.com/15248862/

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  35. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    You're really throwing me for a loop here, as you've done some things that weren't discussed. Of course, it's your machine and ultimately your decision, but deviating from "the script" of what is known to work often causes unforseen hiccups.

    Before looking at your Boot-Repair-Report, the thing that jumps out at me is you unplugged your main harddrive during installation, which helps to explain your sda1 nomenclature...until you reconnect that drive and the nomenclature changes based on some unknown priority (your report identifies your windows disk as sda and external drive as sdb; different than what you stated). I understand why you did it, but that is what backups are for. But a by-product of that is you have installed Ubuntu on an external drive, and the GRUB boot manager (sdb1 it appears), but GRUB has no idea that Windows (drive sda) even exists; which defeats your stated purpose of dual booting.

    What is interesting to me is that Windows still boots using MBR, but Ubuntu does not. Have you actually used Boot Repair to make the recommended repair (as per example), or have you only analyzed the drive to produce a pastebin report? When working properly, GRUB is a boot-time menu which produces a short list of "bootable" OS options, of which the most recent installation will be at the top of the list, with the oldest (almost always Windows) at the bottom.

    You have stated that Windows boots as it always has, which now makes sense given your explanation; but that the exernal drive with Linux does not. This is almost always a GRUB issue. But I've never dealt with GRUB in a separate /Boot directory and I'm not sure if doing that is affecting your Ubuntu boot or if it's being ignored by GRUB. I just don't know. The other thing I see in your Boot-Repair-Report is that you have formatted your external drive partitions with GPT (which we discussed), while your internal hard drive uses the Legacy MSDOS partitions. I am not sure if they are compatible.

    I note the following at the very bottom of your Boot-Repair-Report:
    This would suggest that you have NOT performed the suggested repair yet (which is okay). It would also suggest that your machine does NOT like the GPT partition table, which would explain why the external drive is not booting; it is either incompatible with the MSDOS partition table, or your machine cannot read GPT partitions.

    I'm curious as to which it is....let's try this: unplug your internal hard drive, just like you did for installation, so that the ONLY drive connected to your machine is the external Ubuntu drive. Boot from the external drive, which should bring up your installed Ubuntu OS, as we have confirmed that GRUB is installed there (in partition sdb6). If it boots, then the conflict between GPT and MSDOS partitions is the problem. If it does not boot, your machine hardware does not recognize GPT partition tables.

    Either way, the easiest solution is to reformat the external drive using Legacy MSDOS partitions in order to use with your machine. Do exactly what you did before (without the additonal /Boot partition, but with MBR partitions).
     
  36. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Wasn't MBR/GPT partitioning discussed earlier in this thread?
     
  37. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Yes. And I believe it was recommended to use MBR for "universal compatibility". And it appears that the GPT formatted external drive isn't compatible with the MBR/Legacy hardware on his machine. I must confess I don't know much about GPT partitioning and it's interaction with MBR partitions, other than to know that UEFI based systems work with GPT and can boot MBR partitions using "Legacy Boot". The question now, I think, is whether his Win7 machine MBR can boot GPT formatted partitions? And if they can (I believe they can(?)), did he install a 32-bit or 64-bit version of Ubuntu. If it was 64-bit, there's the problem. If it was 32-bit, we can continue.

    The Boot-Repair-Report utility seems to suggest that GPT is a "potential block" to recommended repair of installing GRUB bootloader to all disks with an OS. I KNOW the bootloader is his issue, but I don't know about the requirement of MBR vs. GPT partitions, as I have no practical experience with GPT based installations. I just know what the boot-repair-report log states. Perhaps the "potential block" won't be an issue and the recommended repair will proceed without interference. After all, it does only say "potential..."

    Perhaps he can try the recommended repair to install GRUB bootloader to the sda hard drive (must be plugged in to make that happen) and everything will be fine? If it does not fix his issue, I think he's stuck re-formatting external drive partitions with MBR. I just don't know if MBR and GPT partitions will play together on the same machine and, if not, why not? What are your thoughts mdonah? Please do chime in, as GPT is not an area of expertise for me, and I don't want to give him bad advice.

    I'm pretty certain my info in post #35 will solve his problem. But maybe he doesn't need to reformat his GPT partitions? If you can help with the partitioning, I can handle the multi-boot installation on an external drive. Just lemme get some popcorn and a notebook for the knowledge you're willing to share!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
  38. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    EDIT previous post: I checked the boot-repair logs and he installed x86_64 architecture. It's 64-bit. Perhaps he can reinstall a 32-bit version of Ubuntu, using the same GPT formatted partitions he already created?

    I know he wanted GPT for the "unlimited" partitions (which you clarified to actually be 1,000). Does this mean he's stuck with MBR partitions (and a limited of 4 partitions)?
     
  39. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    I don't have a whole heck of a lot of information to impart except for the fact that GPT won't run on 32-bit systems. If they have UEFI instead of BIOS, x86 systems' hard drives are initialized MBR because the 32-bit OS is limited to 4 partitions.

    GPT is also used with UEFI on 64-bit systems which can suppurt the 128 partitions you can have on a GPT disk but, the important distinction is UEFI and not BIOS.

    AFAIK, UEFI and GPT weren't available until Windows 8. Windows 7 (both x86 and x64) came on BIOS computers with drives initialized MBR. Unfortunately, I don't have a computer with UEFI to test and verify this.
     
  40. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    These are my understandings also, but I don't KNOW for certain. I defer to your expertise on this matter.

    Would you agree there is little to no downside to having Wrenchman attempt to make his Boot-Repair (recommended repair involves installation of GRUB to internal hard drive/boot disk) and see if that doesn't solve his issue all by itself? With the understanding that IF it does not, his fallback position is to reformat the external drive with MBR partitions, and re-install a 32-bit version of Ubuntu OS on the external drive, with the understanding he will be limited in the number of partitions he can have?
     
  41. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    I agree. GRUB isn't going to know Windows is there otherwise.

    I wish I had the knowledge of Linux that you and plodr have but, I just haven't worked with Linux much since my days of running Win XP exclusively on my other laptop and the problems I had then, when I wanted to go back to XP exclusively. I'm just not comfortable with Linux and the last time I tried to install Mint 17.3 on the laptop I'm using now I had all sorts of difficulties. I agreed with wrenchman that it's "not so automatic" and abandoned the attempt.
     
  42. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    "let's try this: unplug your internal hard drive"
    already done that when rebooting after first install, obviously it recognizes the drive otherwise it would continue right to the next option, see!?

    Btw. there is a UEFI option in BIOS that's all I know, but I'm not sure how to use it, I did try to start in UEFI mode but nothing happened, maybe I need to configure something. I never thought I would ever need to know about UEFI but things change.

    I want to add here: it's not an UEFI on /off option(like I read elsewhere) it's a boot option together with ; USB, Flash, hard drive, dvd, PXE, UEFI and so forth

    I might have deviated from "the script" but what buckles me is that /boot doesn't seem be where I predetermined it to be installed (sda1) instead it's in sdb6, I mean that's not even close to /root where I thought it had been installed.

    I'm thinking about using 3th party boot software, to try and see if it will work, now you mentioned earlier that I could boot from a pendrive, but it still needs to be recognized, just thinking out loud now, so the boot loader basically just recognizes the systems available, now if I get this right BIOS already have a build in boot loader of it's own, no?

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     
  43. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

  44. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    No, it and UEFI simply detect if there's boot information on the device being used to boot from. Otherwise, you'll get "No boot device found" on startup.
     
  45. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Hey guys, have a read through this information. It was supplied to me by Earthling. It may just shed light on the issues wrenchman is having with his drive initialized as GPT.
     
  46. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    Most of that article is gibberish to my non-technical background mdonah, but the tables near the end of the article are somewhat helpful. Wrenchman's machine is 64-bit, but is his Win7 OS 32-bit on the machine, or is it 64-bit Win on his machine? The distinction seems important, as 32-bit Win7 does NOT have boot support for GPT partitioning; further noting that MBR takes precedence in a hybrid configuration. Conversely, 64-bit Win7 does have boot support for GPT, although it requires UEFI (which Wrenchman indicates is available on his machine!); further noting that MBR takes precedence in a hybrid configuration.

    Wrenchman's information is helpful:
    It may recognize the drive, but it didn't boot right? And boot-repair finds nothing wrong with the sdb drive, so it should boot. So even with the potentially conflicting MBR and GPT partition tables removed (MBR partitioned drive unplugged), it still didn't boot. Which points to the MBR bootloader taking precedence over the hybrid configuration.

    So I see 2 issues to be resolved: UEFI & MBR. MBR is easy, as Boot-Repair will overwrite the MBR with GRUB (Grand Unified Bootloader), which will identify all available and bootable OS, while MBR only identifies Windows. If Linux is ever purged from the system, GRUB can continue to be the bootloader, or you can insert your Windows install/recover disk and choose "repair disk" to have MBR bootloader reinstalled. Also if Win7 is ever upgraded to Win10, it will likely "repair" the bootloader during upgrade and break the dual-booting option, requiring GRUB to be re-installed with the Boot-Repair utility. So this needs to be done regardless; MBR can't take precedence in a hybrid configuration if it isn't there, and it won't recognize other OS anyway. Replace MBR with GRUB. This MAY fix everything for you!

    The question then is whether the machine will boot without UEFI, as MBR boot limitations have already been dealt with by removing it? I have ZERO experience with UEFI, but know from other's experiences that with UEFI booting, "secure boot" must be disabled in order to allow for dual-boot scenarios; and possibly "fast boot", which has something to do with flushing RAM caches for hibernation.

    I'm hoping mdonah or Earthling can speak to the UEFI situation. If not, I guess we'll have to tinker our way through that; but I'd prefer to know the whole path before we start the journey. Either way, that MBR boot needs to be replaced with GRUB; and cross our fingers that UEFI doesn't matter. JMO...
     
  47. Hedon James

    Hedon James Sergeant

    If I'm not mistaken, this article leads me to believe that installing GRUB to the Win7 internal drive (sda) with Boot-Repair utility will solve Wrenchman's issues, as GRUB works with BIOS machines and recognizes both MBR and GPT partition tables.

    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-gpt/

    Can it really be that simple? Your thoughts mdonah? Earthling?
     
  48. mdonah

    mdonah Major Geek Extraordinaire

    @Hedon James,

    I thought I saw the version of Windows wrenchman is running on his main drive somewhere in this thread but, now I can't find it (perhaps it was in another thread started by him). But, after reading the info you link to in your last post, that GPT disk needs to have (U)EFI Boot turned on. Perhaps after doing that, the Ubuntu drive will boot. If after switching to EFI Boot, Secure Boot becomes enabled, wrenchman would need to disable it. Otherwise the computer will try to boot from the internal drive only.

    To dual boot the machine, the OS on the main drive needs to support GPT as well. If he's running Windows 7 32-bit or an earlier version of Windows, it's a no-go. If he's running Windows 7 64-bit or Windows 8, 8.1 or 10 (both 32-bit and 64-bit) GPT is supported. EFI with Secure Boot turned off will boot to either MBR or GPT.

    In that information you linked to, I found it interesting that GPT duplicates information on the same drive for disaster recovery. No more imaging? (another discussion)
     
  49. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    I haven't read this entire thread so excuse me if I'm misunderstanding but I would never attempt what I believe the OP is attempting - a dual Windows/Linux boot from a common boot manager. I would leave the Windows drive exactly as it is and install Ubuntu to the external. To boot the external would only require resetting the UEFI or BIOS boot order. Secure boot would have to be permanently disabled for this to work of course.
     
  50. Wrenchman

    Wrenchman Private First Class

    I wanted to exclude a doubt about my motherboard, using CPU-Z, I found this site:
    http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Pr...DetailID=1228&CategoryID=1&MenuID=103&LanID=0

    and according the this site:
    http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Su....aspx?MenuID=74&LanID=0&FAQID=93#fragment-FAQ
    the H61H2-M2 (V1.0) have UEFI BIOS support, so with that out of the way, I still have hope left to accomplish the task

    @Earthling, hi!
    I'm not trying to dual-boot Windows/Ubuntu, for two main reasons: 1st incompatibility and 2nd my wife will kill me if she comes home and windows won't load.

    Yes, I need to figure out how and where to do that?

    (Win 7 x64)

    Thanks,

    :)

    Wrenchman
     

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