Cpu And Other Fans. Need Education On Fans, And How To Control Them.

Greetings.

My CPU fan is getting loud, so I will be replacing it.
Now I need an MG education in CPU fans (and other fans?), and how to control them.

This is probably way too much information for such a simple thing, yet I have found that consulting here before making changes trumps problem solving later, or wishing I’d done something differently. Thanks in advance.

Of course, I’ll have a number of questions, numbered for convenience.

My goal is to get the appropriate fan, install it(them?), and set controls correctly.


EQUIPMENT DETAILS
Computer in service FEB 2010
Current fan rated for 30,000 hours (that’s about 12 hrs/day for 7 years)
XTREME Gear HP-1216 Heatpipe CPU Fan. Details here

I don’t care that much about the cool looking blue LED.
Red would probably be better (for night vision, and our circadian clocks)
I removed a black logisys 5.25' full color thermal fan control because it was a piece of crap

Motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
CPU is not overclocked
“The motherboard supports CPU fan speed control, which requires the use of a CPU fan with fan speed control design.”

HEADERS

CPU fan currently connected to THREE of FOUR available pins
Sys Fan 1 – 3 pin – open
Sys Fan 2 – 4 pin – open
Sys Fan 3 – 3 pin – goes to case fan
PWR_FAN 3 pin – open




...first question...
(1) Must I have a 4-pin connection for the 4-pin CPU Fan header to have a speed control capability?

I also see an open 3-pin North Bridge Fan Header.
(2) What’s that for? Should I be using it?



The fan is currently attached to the cooler tower with rubber connectors that slide into channels in the tower blades.
(3) Do all CPU fans come with these rubber connectors?




It’s my understanding that RAM slots must be filled in order.
The current fan overhangs the next available RAM slot.


(4) Can I have the new fan mounted on the top of the cooler tower (pulling [instead of pushing] air through the cooler tower toward the case fan right on top of that area) in order to open access to the next RAM slots?



(5) Besides shopping db’s of noise, what specifications, or numbers, or identifiers are necessary for me to shop for to be sure the fan fits, or are all CPU fans standardized?



(6) BIOS – CPU operating range is stated to be 5Cto 67.9 C. Of course cooler is better.
Should I enable the CPU Warning Temp? If so, set to what temp? 60C?



(7) Should the CPU FAN Warning be enabled? (I enabled it and stopped the fan with my hand. No warning sound. I wonder where the warning appears?)



(8) How should the CPU Smart Fan Control be set? Enabled?



(9) Should the CPU Smart Fan Mode be set on Auto, Voltage or PWM?



Note that I have installed SpeedFan, yet do not know how to use it yet.




(10) What else should I know to ask? (And what are the answers? lol)



TIA
Really.


DrCarl

 

Not necessarily. Properly cooled is essential. But there is no reason a CPU running at 30°C will be more stable, perform better, or will last longer than a CPU running at 50°C. 50°C is still comfortably within its normal operating range.

The question you need to answer is why is your fan getting louder? Is it spinning faster? If so, why? Or are the bearings just starting to whine due to years of friction and wear and tear?

Do you want to just replace the fan, or the entire heatsink fan (HSF) assembly - or "cooler"?

You say red would be better than blue, what about no LEDs at all? Do you often spend hours gazing into the innards of your computer? Or do you tend to watch what is happening on your monitor(s)?

Most coolers come with fans that are mounted with long screws, or clamped in place with a mechanical mechanism. I don't recall seeing one that uses those rubber ties or whatever they are.

Out of curiosity, since you don't overclock, why did you go with such an extreme cooler in the first place? With proper case cooling and normal clocks, typically the OEM coolers that come with CPUs are more than adequate. That said, not all CPUs come with OEM coolers so aftermarket are needed.

Note that most OEM coolers are oriented down onto the CPU, not sideways. So the fan blows down onto the cooler fins. With side firing coolers, you still want the fan to blow into the cooler fins. That is, to answer your push or pull question, you want the fan to push air through, not pull for more force, thus better heat extraction.

As for what to shop for, you want a fan compatible with your motherboard's socket. In your case, an LGA 1366 socket. Most aftermarket coolers fit many different sockets but some have limited application. So make sure yours says 1366.

I do not recommend using a fan speed controller. You don't need it. Speedfan is nice to monitor temps, but I recommend CoreTemp because it has a System Tray icon for real-time monitoring.

Some motherboard models use a smaller fan on top of the chipset (Northbridge). Your motherboard just uses a large heatsink and that is fine (with proper case cooling). So don't worry about that fan header.

Looking at the image of your motherboard, I don't see a little piezoelectric "system" speaker. This would explain why you didn't hear any warning when you stopped your fan. Note when everything is working fine, if the computer has a system speaker you typically hear one short beep during boot to indicate the POST (power on self test) completed successfully.

Years ago, all cases came with system speakers that connected to the motherboard. These were used for "beep-codes" and alerts (like the CPU FAN and CPU Temp warning). But cost-cutting ended that even though all motherboards still have the connector support for system speakers. Some motherboards come with a small integrated piezoelectric speaker, others don't. For all of our builds here, if the motherboard does not have an integrated speaker, we use one of these. They connect to designated pins in the same header as your case's front panel power and reset buttons, and the HD activity and computer power LEDs.

If you want to replace your entire cooler and want to continue using a side firing cooler, the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is extremely popular and reasonably priced.

One more thing. Be sure to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces of the CPU die and heatsink (I use 91-93% isopropyl alcohol) and then apply a fresh new "thin" layer of TIM (thermal interface material) with your new cooler. And remember to unplug the computer from the wall and touch bare metal of the case interior BEFORE reaching in to discharge any static in your body.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I'll comment more when I have a chance

(I believe it's getting louder because it's at its end of life)

Thanks. (not surprised) Great insight (as usual).

 

Digerati/Bill, You rock. Thanks you again for your thoughtful reply.

Interesting that “cooler” is not necessarily “better.” ...so, if Intel states that the CPU’s normal range is 5Cto 67.9 C, as long as I am in that range, I’m OK? Or, what is “properly cooled”? I read somewhere that 60C ought to be the upper limit. (I’m not worried about it being too cold – lol)

Fan is getting louder not because it’s spinning faster, I believe that it is closing on its lifespan and the bearing is talking to me a little. Besides, I just want it to be quiet, as quiet as possible, without having to replace the whole HSF assembly.

Indeed, no LEDs would be just fine, and yes, I do tend to watch the display more than the blue LEDs – lol. And the display is rife with blue since I have not acquired amber glasses for the 2 hour pre-slumber time for TV movies and ‘puter displays. Sometimes I leave my computer on and the displays off when doing an overnight process. When I roam around the house almost sleepwalking? ~that’s when blue lights matter. None is fine.

Thanks for the info about how most fans are mounted – screws. Maybe I’ll be stuck with an XTreme Gear replacement fan that uses the rubber thingies, if they even have one. Maybe I’ll have to just stick some other fan in there with zip ties, or bailing wire or something?

Why the giant cooler, you ask? When I put this system together, I thought cooler is better, and tried to overbuild as much as possible. I just didn’t know better. I wonder if this monster cooler would be adequate with NO fan?

Got it about push/pull fan direction. Can’t re-orient the sideways MoBo in this case. If I move the fan (on this sideways configuration) to the upper area, I’ll be sure the fan blows ~down~ into the heat sink blades, even though the case fan just above that area is blowing ~up~ and out of the case. Again, I wonder if this cooler would be adequate with NO fan?

Not knowing what a (LGA 1366) socket is, I turned to the interwebs. Now I am wondering why the socket matters if I am only replacing the fan, and not the entire HSF assembly? I suspect that swapping-out the whole deal is only a matter of a 4-screw attachment, and it’s probably not too complicated to shave-off the old thermal paste and put on some new. Still, I’d kind of rather not mess with that. I just want to replace the fan. I can see that 1366 would matter a LOT if the whole assembly was to fit onto the CPU. Regardless, thanks for that.

Why not use a fan speed controller? The motherboard has that capability. Is it really some kind of bad idea? Is it complicated to make that happen? I’d sure like to quiet the thing down. The beloved beast lives right next to me on my desk.

CoreTemp installed. Thanks.

Hearing something, I finally tracked down what sort of ‘beeping’ sound I DO hear on post, and sure enough, it’s the DVD player! No pizo spkr to be found anywhere. So, where would the MoBo send the warnings or alerts? Wait! Cool speaker you sent the link for! I’ll get one! Nice! (I wonder how the bass response is). And where WOULD the MoBo have sent the alert since the Gigabyte should know there is not spkr on their own board?

I am still trying to understand about 3 vs 4 pin fan connections. The header has 4 pins. Current fan leaves the GND open.

From the User Guide...
1 – GND (open/unused)
2 - +12V/Speed control
3 – Sense
4 – Speed control

What I am finding online in the way of fans with 4-pin connectors look more like (relatively) giant Molex? style connectors, and not the tiny, delicate MoBo header connections. Maybe the scale is off on their photos – I have not really exhausted research on this. I wish I knew what to make of it all.

I am posting this without much proofing. I hope it makes sense.

THANK you for your insight.

Dr Carl

 

Hi Dr Carl

Here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVC-Z9M74...0b405986c265f408235385&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1& can be found an example of a CPU fan with a four pin header that would into the socket on your motherboard, although this particular fan is not suitable for your motherboard. It seems you need the four pin connector if you want to control the fan speed, yet speedfan seems to do it with three pins ???)

and here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motherboa...280964?hash=item5aff2e4c84:g:o6IAAOSwBLlVWHDW can be found an example of motherboard "beep" speaker (it fits onto my Gigabyte 775 motherboard: need to look at your m/b manual to see where exactly it plugs in), though it probably doesn't give as much definition the digerati suggested)

Note that these only demonstrative items and I do not suggest they are suitable for you to get.

Dumb_Question
27.February.2017

 

That's my personal threshold. That is, I don't let my CPUs "sit" above 60°C for more than a few seconds. When they start to sit up there longer, it is usually a signal for me to clean my air filters. But many CPUs can run considerably hotter, they that should only be for short periods when tasked hard. During idle, they should drop considerably.

And no, you don't have to worry about it being too cold. It is just not necessary to spend time, money and effort to get temps as cool as possible. All that really gets you is bragging rights.

Replacing the fan on a HSF is possible, but typically they come as a unit. To ensure at least equal performance, the replacement fan would have to move the same amount of air per voltage input. And those specs are typically not published. They typically just state the maximum air flow.

I personally think it would be best to remove the HSF assembly even if just replacing the fan. For one, with the HSF mounted on the motherboard, your own hands will get in the way of you seeing what you are doing.

There are "passive" coolers (no fan) out there. They are often used in HTPCs (home theater PCs). But they rely on heat being able to rise up and out of the case with no restrictions. And they rely on great case ventilation. And many HTPC builder actually under-clock their PCs to keep them running cooler so no fans are needed.

Fan controllers are fine IF you monitor your temps. Fan controllers work by slowing down the fan speed. That's great for reducing fan noise, but it also greatly reduces the fan's cooling capabilities.

The giant molex connectors are used to connect fans directly to the power supply. That will work but will cause the fan to run at full speed (unless using a controller) and does not allow monitoring. And you will likely have to disable CPU fan monitoring in the BIOS or the motherboard will alarm and shut down thinking the fan stopped.

4-pin fans are typically used for the CPU fan and are connected to the CPU fan header. 3-pin fans are typically used for case fans.

You are right, the socket does not matter if only replacing the fan.

DVD drives don't beep. They do often make clicking noises but no beeps. If you really hear a beep, then perhaps there is a system speaker mounted on the case by the DVD. But if so, you will see two wired connected to the speaker pins on the motherboard's front panel header.

Not sure if joking about the bass response, but these speakers are just for "system" sounds. Windows sounds, music, and other audio will come through your regular computer speakers. The motherboard/BIOS does not know if you have a system speaker connected or not. If there is a system error, it sends a beep code regardless. If no speaker, you hear nothing.

 

I agree with digerati: some HSFs are difficult if not impossible to remove (and therefore replace). I gave up and my fan is still working. Others may not be so difficult to replace but I've no experience of them. It seems a shame to replace the whole cooler unit (HS + Fan) when there's nothing wrong with the heatsink.

Fan airflow is a difficult topic as it seems depend on the exact design of the fan. Seemingly similar fans might have different airflow capacity. Some fan manufacturers provide charts of airflow v. pressure at discrete voltages, but others don't and so direct comparison is made even more difficult. In the end, for me, it didn't matter anyway. I was going to go with a fan (that was the correct size) that that a vastly greater quoted airflow than the original irrespective of other factors i.e. the voltage at each airflow, and the in place geometry.

Somewhere I read a "tip" that if you prise off the central bearing cover (with the label on it) and put one or two drops of light oil in the bearing compartment (if a ball bearing fan; I don't know about sleeve bearings) and reassemble, then the fan runs smoother. But if the bearings are worn anyway I don't expect this would work. A pity I can't give a reference to where I read this.

Dumb_Question
27.February.2017

 

That's a bogus tip seen in many places and should not be done except as a very temporary emergency solution - for example while waiting a day or two for your new fan to be delivered.

Computer fan motors are not lubricated with oils. They use grease. If you apply oil to bearings lubricated with grease, the oils will break-down the grease. That is bad. That will cause further friction and may (eventually will) cause noisy bearings to seize.

 

Digerati/Dumb_

Interesting stuff. The topic reminds me of learning about water purification. Seems like a very simple thing superficially, yet as time passes and we learn more, well, it turns out that there is a LOT more to consider...and it's important!

Good to know that fans generally come with the whole HSF unit. Good also to know that fans have interesting specs besides just airflow.

My hottest core (of four) hangs in the low 40’s. One of them is now rarely seen to cross 50. Thanks again for the app and MoBo speaker links. (and, yes, my comment about bass response was a joke – still thanks for being refreshingly uber-clear)

With this education, when the fan really does die, I’ll roll up my sleeves and replace the whole HSF. I'll have to figure if they only go in one way, or if I'm dealing with a square that can be pointed in any of the four directions....thinking about the "side firing" comment. Of course, if the fan fires toward the CPU, orientation of the HSF would not matter.

I guess mine is atypical with 3-pins into the CPU_FAN header

I made a video to share my pseudo-beep, and what the fan used to, and is now sounding like.

See, I changed a setting in the BIOS, (CPU Smart Fan Mode from “auto” to “voltage’) and now the fan appears to be being controlled by the MoBo. It’s cruising at 650-800 RPM instead of 1800 constant. (Checks temp: 43C)

How so? Looks like 4 screws to me and I have TONS of elbow room. Is it the thermal paste? Access? I bought a giant case with future work and expansion in mind. The whole case is a monster. at about 24”x24”x9”.

So, is the difficulty usually in getting at the mounting screws, or in detaching the HSF, or something else?

For a search term I used “pry off the central bearing cover (with the label on it) and put one or two drops of light oil in the bearing compartment (if a ball bearing fan)” and found a wealth of information – Thanks! – although Digerati has an interesting comment. I was going to say "My favorite lube for many things is a product called "Break Free" because it lasts FAR longer than cheap lubricants like WD-40. Then it occurred to me that the penetrant in that product might not be a good thing, and perhaps some kind of machine oil is called for.

Then comes Digirati's comment that really made me laugh. I suppose grease is better where grease is needed.

LOL


After you both see the video (link below), you’ll probably understand why I’ll probably wait on a HSU replacement.

I am so happy to be learning all of this, and am grateful for your help.

MG Rocks!
(and you to do, too)

[Announcer voice] And NOW - BACK to the movies!
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LKkGbf2/0/960/i-LKkGbf2-960.mp4

 

A little more.....as if that wasn't enough...

Must the CPU be removed in order to clean it? (with 91-93% isopropyl alcohol, or methylated spirits).
From looking at online videos, looks like the answer is "yes, it's actually easier to clean that way - as long as we're mindful of static and of not bending delicate pins"

I guess if I can clean the image sensor on my Canon digital camera (better than the Canon technicians who merely re-arrange the dust particles for $150), (it’s a lot like brain surgery – one scratch and the sensor/camera body is toast), then I can probably learn to clean a CPU.

Also, I found this in the MoBo manual. Might be of interest. It’s what inspired me to try a different setting.

CPU Smart FAN Mode Specifies how to control CPU fan speed.
This item is configurable only if CPU Smart FAN Control is set to Enabled.

Auto Lets BIOS automatically detect the type of CPU fan installed and sets the optimal CPU fan control mode. (Default) [Didn’t detect mine – DrCarl]
Voltage Sets Voltage mode for a 3-pin CPU fan. [Seems to work on my 3-pin – DrCarl]
PWM Sets PWM mode for a 4-pin CPU fan.

Note: The Voltage mode can be set for a 3-pin CPU fan or a 4-pin CPU fan. However, for a 4-pin CPU fan that is not designed following Intel PWM fan specifications, selecting PWM mode may not effectively reduce the fan speed.​

 

Will the questions never end?

As I look at new HSF assemblies, and know that I am not over-clocking, I am wishing I knew better what’s available, and what fits considering which direction the fan should blow, and especially considering how stupid it is to block RAM slots.

Thinking that if my current HSF is overkill, maybe underkill is in order.

If I can find a HSF that has a fan “on top” blowing toward the CPU, determining the directionality of air would no longer be relevant, and the RAM slots would not be blocked.

But, is there a HSU that will fit a LGA 1366 socket and cool the little i7-920 as well as be quiet?

Oh No! Are the mounting brackets standardized? I do not want to have to take the motherboard out of the case (there are no cutouts) to monkey with mounting bracket adapters or anything.What to do? How to shop this?

 

The orientation of many HS does matter even in a vertical geometry, because, at least in sckt 478 and 775, they are not square, and the screws or holding pins will only go in properly in a unique orientation (so it is not even as simple as them being rectangular). IDK about sckt 1366

Dumb_Question
28.February.2017

 

As for side firing fans, think of case air flow. You generally want front to back and bottom to top. So orient your side firing fan so that it supports that flow (or at least disrupts it less).

 

Thanks. I get it about 'go with the (air) flow' and not to fight where heat goes naturally.

Now, what about brackets and sockets? Will all 1366 HSFs fit without removing the MoBo? Will any? How does one shop for this?

 

I think most can mount without having to remove the motherboard. If the heatsink requires a "backplate" the motherboard will likely need to be removed.

 

Digerati, thanks. Great answers. Now I can get back to shopping for a HSF assembly before my fan dies.

It's great to learn the terminology, to know that looking for ~just a fan~ might be more difficult than it's worth, and the most will fit (if no backplate is required). Of course, excellent return policies matter.

I also found some "shorter" memory sticks through Crucial.

I have three 4GB sticks of "Elite" that's 45mm tall with big heat sink fins. [DDR3 PC3-12800 • 8-8-8-24 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1600 • 1.5V • 512Meg x 64]

I have three empty memory slots. Crucial offers a "Sport" stick that is 19mm tall (9-9-9-24), and a "Tactical" that is 26mm tall. The 26mm might just fit. They advise they're both compatible (especially? only? if the tactical fits into the space as it's also 8-8-8-24, like the Elite I have).

This "shorter" RAM should not bump into the fan, or a replacement that occupies the same space. I need to take better measurements.
That's probably for a different thread...

Thanks you SO much.

 

You are welcome. I would not get too tied up in searching for a replacement. There are so many to choose from, it can become confusing. Since you are not overclocking, you don't need anything extreme. And remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through and out the case. The CPU fan need only toss the CPU's heat into that flow.

I would look at that Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO I mentioned above if you want a side firing fan or the 212 Plus. They are very popular coolers used by many because they work so well and are so reasonably priced.

 

Got the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO. Took out the MoBo and ev.re.thing (just about), installed and put everything back....and all is well. It's so nice and quiet.

Now I must revisit PWM and other settings to be sure I have the BIOS right. It's probably in this thread.
*grins*