Windows 8.1 Partitioning, Or Get Rid Of System Reserved Partition

I've been all over hell to find a reasonable answer for what I want to do. That is....a reasonable unbiased answer, because most everyone or everyplace has suggested there is no reasonable answer except to accept what M$oft has decreed.

Now recalling the XP support ending and following general discontent with Windows 8 which led to "last" M$oft Windows 10 that was supposed to (but didn't) give everyone the best OS of all time ever released, I would respectfully remind any Microsoft MVP like the one(s) that have already replied to me with great disdain, that there was always (and probably always will be) a controversy about how M$oft does not, would not and will not allow users a choice of how to use the OS that they paid for. As everyone knows that led to the MS school software giveaway(s). Nevertheless M$oft did not cease and desist....in other words M$oft users still do not have reasonable choice(s) of how to use the system software and are still forced to accept whatever Mr. Gates & company forces down their throats (recalling Obamacare?).

Now that I have necessarily vented with respect to my inquiry in this forum, I will present my inquiry for which hopefully some Major Geek guru will have an answer. And no disrespect is meant toward anyone including M$oft (aside form a pursuit of $ 1st and good software 2nd), thank you.

Following XP's back stabbing came windows 8, 8.1, and 10, all of which I tried. I found 8.1 to be frustrating and jerky so I graduated to windows 10 but somehow there was no surprise that M$oft had renewed forcing software down throats in the form of updates, good bad or indifferent, whether I wanted them or not, period and end of story. And that was the ultimate insult to M$oft customers, even worse than any preceding OS.
So even as jerky as 8 was, I stopped using 10 and went back to 8.1 (because in spite of all the warts it did seem faster and more user friendly)...reinstalling it with a 8.1 pro 64 bit DVD, on my HP 500-217c, using a factory fresh WD10EZEX HDD, SATA, 64mb cache. I successfully saved everything on that new 8.1 pro system by transferring everything from my old Windows 10 HDD, including a second DATA partition. Below is what you see in a disk management diagram copy.

System Reserved=350mb NTFS, Healthy (system, active, primary partition)
C=292.97GB NTFS, Healthy (boot, page file, primary partition)

As you can see I have a system reserved partition in addition to a C (windows) partition which certain MVP's say is just fine and should be left alone. But other advisories suggest with good reason (such as the active "boot" should be in Windows...not a separate reserve partition), and that reserve partitions tend to slow things down in spite of the RE capability. Furthermore the way I "back up" all my drives is to use clones which are completely disconnected so as to enable a return to the last good OS install copy by simply plugging in that backup clone. A troubling downside in my opinion, is that such a clone with the system reserve partition also creates little unused partitions that wastes more space, albeit a few mb's along with the 350 mb's of that reserve partition. So I've been looking for a legal way to eliminate the system reserved partition and make the C (Windows) partition the only active one containing the boot files. Here's a URL that outlines steps to do that, hopefully without losing anything https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409 which I would like to try but am afraid won't work, and if not I might not be able to return to my "backup clone" for whatever reason, consequently crashing my backup clone beyond recovery.

I will be grateful for any positive suggestions, recommendations, or help to make my 8.1 clean gain, without that cursed system reserved partition, and without having to reinstall 8.1 again which is a lot of work I'd like to avoid.

 

I've used all Windows OSs from Win 98 to now Win 10.
In terms of your post and the specifics I agree 100% with this article on the How To Geek website.
I see no benefit to doing any different and I don't believe for one nano second doing any different will result in any useful benefit.
https://www.howtogeek.com/192772/what-is-the-system-reserved-partition-and-can-you-delete-it/

 

So MaxTurner, let me understand....you agree with leaving the reserved partition alone, or removing it using the process described in that howtogeek article? I'd like your opinion (either or).... it can't be both. After all, the article does outline a procedure for removing the reserved partition... abeit not recommended but nevertheless there. In any case wouldn't you admit cleaner OS partitions that load faster, and wastes less space (though admittedly small) is better? My experience is no system reserved partition boots faster, because I've installed 8.1 on another computer without the system reserved partition. I just don't want to take the chance on this HP with all my data, apps, mail folders, etc. so I still don't understand why say there's no "useful benefit". Please enlighten me, are you a M$oft MVP as well? No criticism intended.

 

I wouldn't touch it at any stage, at Windows install or after. There are no benefits and it sounds to me like trying to find fault, or a benefit where none exists.
Your tone and language are also quite full of name calling whether it is with critical intent or not. I'm not a fan of multinational companies generally, so I hold no favour for MS. If I felt like you clearly do though, I wouldn't be using any MS product.

 

Don't think I haven't thought of leaving Windows entirely and going to Mac or Linux. At my age that's a career change I no longer have enough years left for. And I was afraid you would misinterpret or misunderstand my "tone" and language. But again, at my age worrying about what people think is less important than getting things right. Name calling? I call it the way I see it, which is btw the same way some M$oft mvp's I know feel as well. They won't even take the trouble to install 8.1 or 10 because they do feel the same way as I do. And at this stage of the game they probably lost their MVP status in doing so. So are they also name callers finding fault where none exist? Anyway, you're obviously not going to suggest anything else besides what M$oft imposes. If there's anyone else here at Major Geeks (which forum I've always found helpful in the past), I'll appreciate other responses. Thanks

 

OK well I'm not commenting any more on this thread as it is pointless. All the best.

 

Same to you, no offense meant.

 

If you delete the System Reserved partition now, your computer simply won't boot and you won't be able to use Bit Locker (if you do use it).

My computers do not have a System Reserved partition because I didn't allow one to be formed during Windows installation. I run Win 7, 8.1 and 10 off of separate partitions I created before I installed Windows using AOMEI Partition Assistant's bootable CD.

I know you don't want to go through the hassle of re-installing Windows, Programs and getting things set up the way you like them but, unfortunately, I don't see any other choice.

 

Thanks mdonah, I'm well aware of that not because I've made that mistake but because it's been explained exactly as you say. Also, in the searching I've done I see that the install should have been done on "separate partitions" created before also as you say, which I thought I did in the first place but I somehow missed. So I'm left with this partition that's really unnatural if not messy when compared to OS's prior to 8.1. That's what I'd like to get back to and I really can't understand why certain experienced Windows users, evidently MVP's, take such exception to that even to the point of accusing me of being mean spirited or finding fault as it were.

Anyway did you check the Terabyte url that I posted earlier? I'm really tempted to try that, but fearful that it might fail, and a backup clone I always have would not "restore" the disk if only to the install containing that system reserve. Do you have an opinion or any experience with that regard? Thanks for your input.

 

There is one situation in which there is a benefit from removing the System Reserved partition and that is where you have need for four primary partitions on an MBR disk, perhaps in order to be able to set up multiple booting. I had this situation on an 8.1 laptop and successfully removed the SR partition using a method similar to that already linked to and there were no problems. I took a full disk image first but it was not needed. Other than that scenario I can't see any benefit at all.

 

@Earthling ,

According to the OP, the system boots faster if the boot info is on the "C:\Windows" partition instead of on the System Reserved partition and this is what he wants.

@provobis ,

I completely read the info from your TB link. Apparently you're booting BIOS or Legacy and your hard drive is MBR instead of GPT.

If you're going to attempt the instructions in your TB link, make sure to follow them EXACTLY including the checks for success as outlined. Otherwise, you'll never get the computer to boot to your current Windows installation.

 

I can find no evidence at all to support that.
The OP also has their facts wrong about when SRPs were introduced, which was before 8.1.

 

If there was any difference I haven't been able to detect it. In any case it can't be any more than the time it takes the BIOS to establish which is the Active partition - a nanosec or two?

 

Post #1, paragraph #7:

I can't, personally, verify this claim but, it's the OP's computer so...

 

That's not evidence I'm afraid.
SRPs were introduced in Windows 7. There would be 1000s of threads all over the internet support forums about users of 7,8,8,1 and 10 about slow booting because of a 350mb partition.
There are not.

 

First, thanks for your return Max, I suspected you didn't really think it's "pointless" to comment any further here. Therefore if you will allow I also assume that I have an issue that you're not absolutely SO certain about after all. Now, if I may I'd like to clarify "slow booting". It appears that most everyone here has assumed my reference to faster booting when the boot info is in the C windows partition refers to significant if not lighting faster booting. As far as I can recall in this discussion here and elsewhere I have merely said faster, not necessarily miraculous. All I meant was I observed comparatively faster booting results. And if someone isn't looking for the difference they might not even notice it. But I am watching closely (for any differences) so I do notice. That's a small if not irrelevant point in this discussion but it could be meaningful with regard to your "threads all over the internet" that don't exist about slow booting. Others are just not that concerned with "differences" regarding this issue. OK, call me old fashioned out in right field. I don't and in fact I proudly plead guilty.

To mdonah, (I'll also reply directly).....you're right, my HDD is MBR instead of GPT. When I installed the new 8.1 on HP I made sure it was MBR, because on another computer (which I'll call XP) where I have 8.1 installed (virtually a copy of HP), I had no problems cloning with MBR but previously on HP when I did have GPT the EaseUS cloning software always glitched and would not proceed with GPT for some reason. that's why I wanted MBR (not GPT) on HP. And you're also right on the mark as far as I'm concerned, that the TB instructions should be followed exactly....believe me I'm absolutely paranoid about that, which is also why I'm so concerned that something might go wrong. So in your opinion TB should work if done according to instructions? (And thanks for actually reading TB). Seems to me TB knows what it's talking about, and must have good reason(s) to suggest that conversion.

Also in your opinion mdonah, if I do make the TB attempt, and I do have a unconnected clone of the system reserved disk, if something does go wrong with my attempt, if I plug in my backup clone will I have everything back before the attempt? I'm only concerned because it seems in the past whenever I made some change, error or mistake on an active (booted) HD, then tried plugging in my backup clone to "restore", it seemed like the error or mistake was somehow magically transferred to the backup clone. Not sure about that....networking questions, even though the backup clone was not connected?

 

To mdonah, (I'll also reply directly).....you're right, my HDD is MBR instead of GPT. When I

 

Even if there were a one whole second faster booting on systems without an SRP it would be totally and utterly meaningless in user experience. This thread is about solving a non-existent problem, so a waste of time.

 

To mdonah, (I'll also reply directly).....you're right, my HDD is MBR instead of GPT. When I installed the new 8.1 on HP I made sure it was MBR, because on another computer (which I'll call XP) where I have 8.1 installed (virtually a copy of HP), I had no problems cloning with MBR but previously on HP when I did have GPT the EaseUS cloning software always glitched and would not proceed with GPT for some reason. that's why I wanted MBR (not GPT) on HP. And you're also right on the mark as far as I'm concerned, that the TB instructions should be followed exactly....believe me I'm absolutely paranoid about that, which is also why I'm so concerned that something might go wrong. So in your opinion TB should work if done according to instructions? (And thanks for actually reading TB). Seems to me TB knows what it's talking about, and must have good reason(s) to suggest that conversion.

Also in your opinion mdonah, if I do make the TB attempt, and I do have a unconnected clone of the system reserved disk, if something does go wrong with my attempt, if I plug in my backup clone will I have everything back before the attempt? I'm only concerned because it seems in the past whenever I made some change, error or mistake on an active (booted) HD, then tried plugging in my backup clone to "restore", it seemed like the error or mistak

To mdonah, (I'll also reply directly).....you're right, my HDD is MBR instead of GPT. When I installed the new 8.1 on HP I made sure it was MBR, because on another computer (which I'll call XP) where I have 8.1 installed (virtually a copy of HP), I had no problems cloning with MBR but previously on HP when I did have GPT the EaseUS cloning software always glitched and would not proceed with GPT for some reason. that's why I wanted MBR (not GPT) on HP. And you're also right on the mark as far as I'm concerned, that the TB instructions should be followed exactly....believe me I'm absolutely paranoid about that, which is also why I'm so concerned that something might go wrong. So in your opinion TB should work if done according to instructions? (And thanks for actually reading TB). Seems to me TB knows what it's talking about, and must have good reason(s) to suggest that conversion.

Also in your opinion mdonah, if I do make the TB attempt, and I do have a unconnected clone of the system reserved disk, if something does go wrong with my attempt, if I plug in my backup clone will I have everything back before the attempt? I'm only concerned because it seems in the past whenever I made some change, error or mistake on an active (booted) HD, then tried plugging in my backup clone to "restore", it seemed like the error or mistake was somehow magically transferred to the backup clone. Not sure about that....networking questions, even though the backup clone was not connected?

 

To "restore" from the "backup clone" you need to do it pre-OS by booting from the EaseUS bootable CD then plugging in the clone drive. This way, the erroring drive will be overwritten with the clone drive's information. I'm not sure about EaseUS (I use AOMEI Backupper) but, you may have to do a refresh page to pick up the clone drive as the source info you're using to restore your main drive.

 

As Earthling said, a valid reason to get rid of the System Reserved partition is because you need a fourth primary partition on an MBR disk. This was exactly my case because I wanted to multi-boot four versions of Windows.

The speed increase you get in boot times with the System Reserved partition removed will depend on your computer's configuration (processor speed, whether HDD or SSD, amount of RAM, etc.). My computers both have SSDs, fast processors and their RAM is maxed out. The speed increase in boot times would be imperceptible to me.

 

Thanks for that mdonah, particularly because what you're saying probably explains something I apparently do not understand with regard to restoring from the "backup clone" after the "erroring drive". I don't understand those relationships which evidently explain how an error can be moved from drives that are not connected (booted) at the same time. The only way I might understand that's possible is by MOBO boot order memory(???). However it always seemed logical (normal) to me that when a drive with errors is unplugged (removed) and the so called backup clone is plugged in the same place everything should start from line one as it were, and the clone should boot the same way (with the same partition configurations, etc) as it was when created before errors were made. NO?? And if no, how is the erroring drive info moved to the backup drive clone? Then....how does a EaseUS bootable CD avoid, preclude or prevent that? Obviously I need to understand the mechanics even if I never have to use it.

 

In EaseUS (I installed it so that I know what I'm talking about), go to Tools in the upper right and select Create Emergency Disk. You'll be presented with 3 options — USB, CD, ISO — you can make a bootable USB (flash) drive, burn a CD directly or create an ISO file to burn to CD at a later time.

Once your emergency disk is created, if your main drive is erroring, you'll use the CD to boot your computer, then use the error free clone to restore your main drive.

From what I read in your last post, apparently you're copying in the wrong direction when you're trying to restore your main drive. That's the only reason I can think of for the errors transferring to the clone. The clone should be the source drive and your main drive should be the destination drive.

 

Provobis, did you make a drive image you would use to overwrite and restore your original hard drive in the event of a problem or did you make another physical clone of your hard drive that you would install in your PC after removing your original hard drive?

 

I'm not being clear enough about "errors transferring". If memory serves, when I see the booted drive has errors because of some unsuccessful change or work I attempted, I'll not want to continue with that drive obviously, so I'll want to remove it after shutting down. Then I'll want to plug in a clone waiting in my desk drawer to either continue normal use or do another work attempt (after of course creating another clone from that clone so that I'll still have another good drive on hand). But instead of having a good drive clone booting up I'll get a message that Windows can't find a proper boot, or that I should install a system, etc, etc. In other words that good clone is no longer good. So what I have at that point is a drive with errors that I don't want and a clone that should have been in good shape....but isn't because Windows can't find a system or boot. That's what I mean by errors transferring though I'm not sure why or how but I've thought it could have something to do with networking that one computer sees on another, consequently sharing those errors.

As for copying in the wrong direction, no....I'm well aware of choosing the source (booted good drive) first and the destination (HD in the external USB enclosure second), and I've never had cloning mistakes or problems in that respect.

I'm now trying to understand the procedural meaning of how and why to make the bootable USB,CD,ISO options the way you explain. Thanks.

 

Thanks for your interest. I always do the latter...make another physical clone that I would install after removing the original HD

 

There are essentially two ways to backup a system - you can create a second disk which is an exact copy of the original, called cloning, or you can create a file which contains everything needed to be able to recreate the original system, called imaging. The image file has to be stored on a different disk than the original. To restore a clone you simply substitute the clone for the original and boot up, as you already know, but to restore an image you need first to get the computer running with software that can write the image file back to the original drive or to a replacement drive. In Easeus this is the Emergency Disk that mdonah talks about, but as you are cloning rather than imaging you don't actually have any need for it.

IMO it's well worth the effort to become familiar with imaging as it's far easier to keep an up-to-date image file than it is a clone.

 

Well then....wait a minute. You're saying I don't have any need for imaging because I use cloning to back up? But then how (or why) does mdonah's telling me apply, that I'll need that emergency disk if my "main drive is erring" because in fact it's that "main drive" I can't "restore" by using my clone which somehow has acquired the "erroring" as I tried to describe earlier? Or am I getting situations mixed? Now I'm getting the impression there's no reliable way to "backup", cloning or using emergency disks, whenever there's a matter of "erroring".

 

I can't and won't try to explain how it is that your clone seems to have acquired the same errors as the original. To my mind that is not possible unless both the clone and the erroring original were connected at the same time when the system was rebooted. In normal circumstances, where you have a good clone, you do not need the emergency disk in order to boot to the clone so I'll just leave mdonah to explain why he says you do.

 

Not true at all. I backup all systems here once a month or so and have done so for years. The backups (images) have always proved reliable. However a backup will contain any errors in the original if the fault occurred before the backup was created. Could that explain your problem?

 

To my mind as well....."that is not possible unless both the clone and the erroring original were connected......" but that's what seems to have been the case previously at times not necessarily related to this partitioning question, when for example I was working on other drive changes. At least that's my undertanding of why mdonah indicates that I'll need the ED via EaseUS.

 

Well yes, so have I, but more often than monthly but by using cloning, until now when there's this question of "erroring" which seems to get in the way.

 

There aren't ANY circumstances in which you need an emergency disk to install and boot to a clone. You ALWAYS need an emergency disk to restore a disk image.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

If your cloned disk is not connected to any PC, it's data should remain unchanged. If your cloned drive develops the same issue as the drive it replaced, more than likely the underlying issue existed when it was duplicated.

 

mdonah, I've come back to your post here to reply. After all the posting from you and others for which I'm grateful, I think I have some basic understanding of issues I didn't fully understand before coming to Major Geek, even if some of those issues are a bit fuzzy in my mind. Anyway, I suspect everyone including yourself is a bit weary of my inquiry, so let me say that I think I'm ready to try the TB procedure, but if anything should go wrong (not necessarily preventing me to boot that disk but nevertheless not accomplishing the partition fix), are you of the opinion that I could not plug in my backup clone so as to boot up my disk copy before the attempt? In other words go back to what I had before trying TB and why should that clone not be exactly what I had before TB?

Also are you of a firm opinion that the only way I can get back to no reserve partition is to reinstall instead of TB'ing?

 

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I haven't been notified about replies to this thread.

I, personally, think the re-install to a partition you create BEFORE beginning Windows Setup would be a lot easier with much less chance for error.

I, now, understand what you were doing with the clone drives — swapping them in for your main drive when errors developed (correct?).

But, as far as the errors transferring, that can only happen if both drives are connected and you booted to one or the other.

That's why i recommended the Emergency Disk. You'd boot to it, then restore your main drive from the USB connected error free clone.

 

"swapping them in for your main drive when errors developed (correct?)."
Yes mdonah, that's how I've always "backed up", and what has saved my butt for years whenever there were errors in a connected drive. What's more "both drives" being necessarily connected for errors to be transferred is always what I've understood, not to mention what always applied for me. Those "errors" I mentioned in earlier posts were somehow being confused (my fault) with other circumstances....don't remember exactly how. Thanks again for your patience. Unless anyone who contributed here wants me to advise what happened when I try the TB I'll consider this episode closed, or solved as the case may be.

 

I'll be interested in the TB results whether successful or not.

It seems a lot to go through just to "free up" 350 MB and depending on your computer's configuration, noticeably speeding up boot times. It may not do so.

 

Just to let you know I still intend to try "TB" but taking my time in considering that whole process, so don't expect anything overnight. You're most likely technically correct about "a lot to go through...It may not do so". However in addition to just freeing up 350 MB I've always thought (been taught) having the system, boot, etc in the same partition as well as separated from (a second) DATA only partition, also makes for more efficient and safer system operation with less error. Just thought I'd throw that in, albeit belatedly now. Thanks again.

 

Have you tested your RAM memory for errors? That partition you call into question backs up some rather important aspects of Windows. The disk space recovered is not worth the time to delete it. If you want speed, install a solid state drive instead of a platter hard drive.

Bad bits on RAM modules can lead to Windows having errors. And remember, a software kernel (OS) is just like anything else. It has a service life. The older the kernel, the more easily hacked, i.e. less secure. XP should be left to die with dignity. Vista and later OS versions were/are far more secure and stable.

If you want your Windows version to look like another, install "Classic Shell".

 

@the mekanic ,

Vista is now "dead" too. MS dropped it April 11th of this year.

Classic Shell is what I use in Win 8.1 and 10 but, some people prefer Start Menu 8 (also available at MG's).