Building a new PC with SSD (would like advice)

Hi all,

I'm about to build a new PC soon, here is my current PC:
Core2Dual 2.6ghz, 2gig ram, Vista Pro 32

The reason why I am building a new PC is because of the video editing and gaming situation.

Using Sony Vegas 9 Pro, encoding a HD video (10minute) takes about 2-3 hours...
also I can't stream with my HD PvR due to my CPU being overworked (it'll lag the encoding and streaming).

My new system (currently being drafted) will include:
i7 2600k (will OC it to 4.4ghz or so)
Windows 7 64-bit (not the Home version but a higher version)
Intel SSD 120gig SATA III

With this, I was told by people that my encoding should be 15minutes or less (better than 3 hours that's for sure).

Anyways my main question is about the SSD since this is pretty new to me and my friend has one and loved it. Hence, I would LOVE to have one to use and learn about it too, but would LOVE to get information (from those who used SSD) about it.

Here is a few notes and plan I am going use it for which hopefully will give you an idea what I would use it for:
- will be my bootup drive (obviously)
- Windows 7 64-bit
- All my Games installed on it (Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, etc)
- All my software installed on it (Sony Vegas 9 Pro especially)

Note: Temporary files (from Windows and browsing) will be on a normal hard-drive I think.

So now here comes the questions which I hope those with experiences with SSD can help answer or clear up any misunderstand I may have on it:

I'll be using this SSD as an example to help my questions/answers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167042

01) Is it viable for me to install those software mentioned above?
I was told I should put temporary files at the normal hard-drive to keep the SSD memory "clean" from trash stuff (SSD's purpose is for permanent software, not temporary, for read/write access)

02) I have my computer on 24/7, is it bad to have SSD running 24/7?
Since it is different from a hard-drive, I don't know if I can still have my PC running 24/7

03) I noticed that unlike the other SSD on NewEgg (which advertise about TRIM ability with Windows 7), this particular Intel SSD doesn't have TRIM (aside from that "Data Set Management Command Trim attribute" not sure what it is).

Does it mean it doesn't support Windows 7 TRIM like the other SSD or it involves a much more technical know-how to use the TRIM function?

I know from a little research that delete data (and temporary files) are NOT removed and you need to use the TRIM feature to free up the memory space for new data to be read/write.

So this function seems pretty important unless I am misunderstanding something about it.

04) Does reading/writing too much degrade the drive (wear-tear)? Or it just slows down the overall speed of read/write (even though it will always be faster than a normal hard-drive).

Again, this goes back to my first question, about keeping permanent software on SSD while setting Temporary Files and stuff on normal hard-drive.

05) Referring to #04, using TRIM should keep the drive clean from "trash/temp" files for new read/write data right? Can TRIM degrade the SSD from constant usage?

Obviously you can tell I'm knew to this lol.. but yet, want to learn more about SSD.


Well that's all the common questions I would love to learn about SSD.. but the best part (yes my personal test) is I would love to see how crazy this scenario would happen once I get it (unless any of you would voice your opinion on it):

As known with a 10min video....

Core2Dual = 3 hours encoding
i7 2600k = 15minutes (theoretical from what people told me)

i7 2600k + SSD (have Vegas Pro + Raw video all on SSD) = Super Fast?!


I would love to try that lol.. but like stated on my questions above, I don't know if constant file adding and deleting (video files for encoding) onto the SSD itself could degrade and break the SSD early.

Thanks to anyone who can help answer the questions!
I might ask more later if new concerns pops up!

- LL

 

I just installed a SSD on my computer. While I installed mine into my existing computer, as opposed to a new build, you may find some useful information in my thread concerning the install. I doubt if it will answer all your questions, but it may provide leads that can help you find your answers .
http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=236420

 

Thanks, I read it and its pretty good in helping me out in the beginner troubleshooting for sure!

Since you're using it, and if you got time, maybe you can answer some of my concerns I got.




Also, I did a little more research at work today and have a few new questions too:

06) How or when does TRIM activate?
Since SSD is brand new (well old since it was out years ago), I can't get any concrete information on this.

- Some say TRIM only works when you turn OFF your PC, that's when TRIM will run.
- Others say its automatic when you delete a file (Win7 will let the SSD know that it is safe data to delete).
- Others also say you need to run a software from Win7 or something to use TRIM (like defragging in a sense).


07) How is the reliability and life span of the SSD?
Most concrete information says its about 3 years or so... but since I'm leaving it on 24/7 I don't know if it'll hurt the lifespan.

Is there any like "POST" like type that will notify if the SSD is failing (like how POST or other similar software works for dying hard drives)?

It would suck to have all your information gone since a dead SSD can't recover any data... but then again, it is only used for OS and software.. so that can be easily recovered by installing (since all the important data is in the storage hard drive).

 

I myself am still not completely sure exactly what the function of TRIM is, though it seems to deal with "garbage collection". It APPEARS as though, once I was able to set my SSD mode to ACHI that TRIM was also activated, although I am not certain of this.
As you have probably noticed, there is an abundance of largely conflicting information concerning SSD's and their optimization on the open web, which is not a good thing for accurate information seekers such as ourselves.
I have already been unable to give you a good answer to your TRIM question, and the lifespan/reliability question I will have to see for myself over time. I believe the less that is written to the SSD, the longer it will last, but I could be wrong about that (gee, I'm really helping you LOTS here, huh?) . I honestly don't think leaving your computer on 24/7 is going to shorten the life of your SSD unless there is constant writing and re-writing to the drive. I only have a 40gig drive, thus I only have Windows 7 and Firefox on it. Once i have enough free time from work, I will look deeper into settings and ensure that temp files and such are being stored on my spindle drives, thus a minimum of data writing will occur on the SSD.

Not sure if any of this helps you, I actually would like to see someone with more experience/knowledge answer the questions you pose in post #1 of this thread .
I won't know if there will be a POST notice of SSD failure until I have an SSD failure, I suppose. But, as you mention, I am only keeping my OS and my browser on my SSD, both of which are quickly and easily re-installed on another drive if there is a failure.

I must say, this far into my SSD experience, that I am quite happy with the performance, setup was only a minimal hassle (much help from MG) and overall I would say it's totally worth it . I look forward to future generations of SSD's, as surely their evolution will improve many aspects of the drives .

 

1. I would recommend only installing your operating system on the SSD. Please see #4 for an explanation

2. There should be no problem with this provided that you understand that nearly all computer equipment's life is rated in hours, which is also known as mean time between failure (MTBF).

3. My personal understanding of "Data Set Management Command Trim attribute" is TRIM, however I am not totally sure and this is an educated guess not a fact.

4. SSDs are based on flash memory chips just like a thumb drive but a lot faster. These chips slowly wear out based on read/write cycles. Each chip inside the SSD has a limited number of read/write cycles that it can withstand before it fails or becomes unstable. SSD manufacturers use clever ways of making sure that all the chips inside the SSD get an even amount of wear so that hopefully the whole unit fails at once rather than one chip failing and breaking the whole thing. Therefore to prolong the life of the drive only the minimum number of read/writes possible must go to the drive. Thus applications that read/write a lot to hard drives should not be put on SSD drives at present otherwise their life span will be severely degraded.

5. TRIM is designed to tell the SSD what data is safe to delete. The SSD internal memory manager will delete the data itself when the drive is not in use. Thus TRIM itself does not wear the SSD,it would have to delete the data anyway, just later on when you are trying to write over the "deleted" data, slowing the performance of the SSD considerably as it would have to delete the data then write the new data rather than just writing the new data.

6. TRIM is active constantly as it is basically comparable to an operating system (OS) driver in that it tells the OS how better to communicate with the SSD. It just tells the SSD what is safe to delete.

7. You need to look at the MTBF (see #1) for the individual SSD that you are looking at. Taking your example, the internet tells me that the MTBF is 1,200,000 hours

1200000 hours / 24 hours = 50000 days / 365 = 136 years

EDIT: however you will have reached the maximum number of read/writes well before this time.

 

I have only limited theoretical experience of SSD but there are some Hybrid drives around which give you both size and performance. It should be noted though that the performance of hybrid drives is not as good as pure SSD. But they seem to be a good middle ground.

 

There we go. Thanks collinsl !

 

no problem

 

@FED UP
Oh yea, I'm quite excited about owning one to use that's for sure! I'm pretty excited about learning about it and have experience in using it too.

First, I give my thanks for answering, it really clears up a lot of questions!

Response to Question/Answer 01 & 04:
Yup, I clearly understand about the limited read/write for the chip itself, but main consensus from what I read is that you should put all the "permanent" softwares on the SSD that you'll use.

Which is one my case would be:
- Windows 7 64-bit
- Virtual Dub
- Sony Vegas Pro
- Games (Starcraft 2, etc)

All media and temporary files has to be on a normal hard drive due to constant read/write access (obviously would wear-tear the SSD quickly).

From what I saw and read, as long the read/write limit does not hit the daily 20gig (can be up to 40gig on today's newer SSDs) limit, the SSD should be ok for 3-5 years.

Response to Question/Answer 02:
Yes sir, I understand all hardware is rated with MTBF, but these days technologies, you can learn almost everything on and it'll work great for at least 3-5 years. I was just curious to know if SSD follow the same rule or there is something that make break that rule.

Response to Question/Answer 03 & 05 & 06:
Thanks you about the TRIM. Someone told me today that the new SSD should have TRIM as a standard (compatible with Win7 TRIM function) and I shouldn't have worried too much about it. Even so, I wished it would state it is compatible with Win7 TRIM like its older products' details sheet (eg. Intel SSD MX series).

Response to Question/Answer 07:
1.2 million hours is insane (yea I saw that on the details information for the Intel SSD), but I agree, I will reach the read/write eventually.. but I do know it should take at least 5 years or so.

If it last at least 5-6 years, that's great since by then, better technologies is out and it would be time to build another PC lol.

Honestly the MTBF for computer parts these days are really a concern since I even have computers running 24/7 since 10 years ago (and no breakdown). Only time they break is just the hardware quality or so basically.

Since SSD is new to me, I had to set straight that it still follows that same "rule" as the others (but at least the SSD are much more durable than hard drives).

Thanks a lot for answering! Very excited about it now!

 

Good stuff here. Now to figure out how to set temp file saves to spindle drives and other such things. Someone should really write a definitive tutorial on SSD's since there's so much confusing information out there, but it might be that the advancement of the technology is so fast/fluid at this time that a tutorial might not be practical. But what do I know ?
lol
thanks again