Cooling problems even with new Heatsink

Hi,

i just recently bought myself a thermaltake blue orb II heatsink as i thought it will cool my cpu at a lower temp. but when i put it in i found out that it still sits at the same temps as my stock heatsink (the one that came wit my cpu) did.

have i done something wrong maybe when i put it in? i squeezed in a small amount of thermal paste in the mid of cpu, no bigger than a grain of rice as i hae read on the net you should do. then let the heatsink spead it when i install it.

specs of my comp are:
intel p4 3.0ghz lga 775
msi 865pe neo 3-f m/board
6800gt nvidia graphic card
1gb ddr ram
250GB+120GB hdd

in summer my cpu temp goes up to 60C. during winter/spring/autumn it sits at 50C. this is with my stock heatsink and i put in the thermaltake one it has the same readings!
i have 3 case fans, one at the back, front and side.
i have seen ppl (read on net) that their cpu with the blue orb get temp readings of 25-40C. 40C being summer!
i guess the only plus side at the moment that yes it works very quiet now even in summer (its summer now here). the stock one goes noisy if the room is hot.

can anyone help me? it would be appreciated

thanks

 

Well this can be irritating, I know. A couple things here....First, remember that the CPU temp is a function of the ambient temp. of the room and the case. Even if it is Winter, if your home and case are too hot you will get higher temps. With that said, you should still see way lower temps with your new HSF. There is definitely a problem here somewhere as your temps are way high.

It may help to give this a try.........Check to make sure the HSF is seated properly. I also have an LGA 775 socket and they are tricky. Second, you should try Arctic Silver thermal compound instead of the stuff provided with your HSF. It, in of itself, will lower temps up to 5 degrees celsius. Go ahead and re-seat your HSF. Also, check to see if your fan speed is 100% or not. Prescott runs hot, but no matter how hot, you should definitely see way lower temps than stock. How is your case airflow? Make sure you have good airflow and no hot air pockets. It sounds like you did a good job applying the thermal compound- that's the way I do it too and that's the way Arctic Silver says to do it. Some people prefer to spread it, but that is not necessary.

Try re-seating it first though...it could not be making good contact with the heat spreader.

Oh....one more word of advice. It is IMPERATIVE that the contacts between the heat spreader of the processor and the metal of the HSF are absolutely clean and free of debris. If you didn't clean them first, CAREFULLY clean the heat spreader of the processor with alcohol and then the HSF, reapply the thermal compound (Arctic Silver best) and then reattach the HSF.
Good luck.

 

Hi there, I agree wholehartidly with the comments by Walter34payton2002, The fixing on 775 motherboards is very poor. It is extremely easy to illfit a heatsink in them. I changed for an ArticFreezer 7 Pro, and the fittings were firmer, and it cut the temperatures by A HALF of the original.So the Thermaltake should do similar. Check the side fan flow direction, as you may need to reverse it to extract , rather than suck air in.If you try the smoke test, you can see if flow is correctly balanced- a smoking jos stick, for a short time, held near front of the computer.Two hard drives could be restricting inflowing air -If you have 80mm fans , front and back, try, if room to fit 100mm fans, if the other checks do not solve it.

 

basic airflow diagram:

 

Hey guys,

thanks for the help.
i will try to install it again. i think this time i should take the whole m/board out of the case. would be easier. i installed it inside the case and it was hard to see where the screw holes were so the hsf was moving. and i will try the artic silver and clean both faces with alcohol. oh yes and the smoke test too would be a good idea.

attached is pic inside my comp and pic of my side panel (inside view) so you guys can see the airflow. there is no ventalation at the front. just a fan just sits insde of the front. the side panel has got this pipe thing so that the hot air get channelled out (so i would assume). i would probably need a better case too.

i will let you know how i go later on.

 

Case seems good enough, - plenty of room.You may well find everything cool, after doing that.:celebrate :duck
I found with my old p4 3 gig cpu,(socket 478) - which did give overheating problems, that putting a fan where the funnel is, SUCKING AIR IN, towards the cpu, and a 100mm fan at the rear, dropped the temperature down. If there is insufficient room for fan and funnel, take the funnel off.
I AM ASSUMING THE SIDE FAN IS SUCKING INTO THE COMPUTER?
ONE OTHER THING - CHUCK THOSE IDE CABLES AWAY, AND FIT SOME ROUND ONES - HELPS AIRFLOW CONSIDERABLY.
http://forums.majorgeeks.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Thumbs up

 

If you are already planning to take the mobo out of the case, you may want to try to VERY CAREFULLY test it and monitor it started up on a bench (out of the case with vid card attached and rest it on non-electrical conducting surface such as wood so it doesn't short). Or you can put it back in the case with the side off and a house fan blowing on it (safer than bench running it) and monitor your temps. This will give you an idea if it is an airflow problem because if it runs nice and cool on a bench or with a house fan w/ door off and then runs much higher (cause it will run a bit higher) when you put the case back together with everything installed, then you know it is an airflow issue. You probably already know, but be careful with the alcohol....don't get it on the working parts of the processor...just the metal heatspreader part and the on HSF metal contacts. Hope you get it sorted out.

 

Just waiting to see how you progress, with your cooling problem.

 

I havent had time this week coz of work and other commitments so wont do anything till friday or weekend.

cheers

 

It may also be that your computers sensor is misreading and you re actually cooler than that anyway. I would also suggest downloading Everest Home (available on this site) and using the temps from that.

Let us know how you get on.

Finally could you let us know if you are overclocking your CPU? If you are not then those temps are at least 10 oC higher than I would expect (not dangerous, but high).

 

If the sensors are malfunctioning then any software that attempts to read of them would also be false. The only way to make sure the temperature is what it says it is, is to use an external temp probe.

Your set-up looks good, surprising your getting such high temps. Is your rig overclocked at all? Aslong as you have intake on the front and outake on the back as Core2Conroe showed you should be ok.

Just how little ammount of thermal compound did you put on? You can be quite liberal with the ammount of thermal compound you use (Just wipe of any excess), only have to be really carefull when using arctic silver. but don't go sloshing the stuff on! a fairly thin layer over the core if you have a older type CPU, or all over the thing if its fairly new which hides the core under a heat conductive plate would work well.

 

The most accurate temp. readings may come from BIOS hardware monitor. If you feel there is an error in temp. readings from BIOS, you could try to update BIOS. There was a fix for that very thing for my motherboard. As kronus points out, if everything else fails and your temps. are not getting lower, the only way to know for sure would be an external heat probe. Those don't measure core temp, but if your sensor is bad then that would be one way to know. Anyway, I have a feeling it is less complicated than that. LGA 775 is tricky and a not fully seated HSF is rather common.

 

Hey guys,

Well i've tried almost everything.
Today i took out the m/b, took off the hsf clean the cpu and hsf with isopropyl alcohol, applied a smalled amount (grain of rice) of artic silver to cpu, fitted the heatsink (made sure its scewed tight) and put everything all back.

i am still getting same temps.

I have updated my bios and my rig is not overclocked.
I try not to be too liberal with the paste as i have done that b4 and i got higher temps with that.
i have three stock case fans (8cm), the front and side suck in air, the rear extracts.

maybe it still could be a software/ m/b malfunction of temp readings. i do not know.

i even tried to test it outside the case with a desk fan blowing right at it. no diff only 1 or 2C.

anymore ideas guys? i am starting to get restless of having to take everything apart n putting it back in and i do not know what else to do.

i may also need to give it a few more days as they said the paste takes some time to work.

anyway just wanna thank you guys for your help.

 

I do not think your computer is excessively hot, But cooler is always better, I can only suggest trying another heatsink and fan, like the Artic cooler Freezer 7 Pro, which is very reasonable to purchase, as this one has a huge heatsink, , and the fan blows through the heatsink, side on from the frontside, towards the rear fan, and I think it could work better for you. I have used it on my old 3 gig presscott, a pentium D , and have chosen to use it on my new build Core 2 Duo.
I find it so efficient, and it does cut temperatures down to 30, and less.
Go here for a review of it
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro/

 

I don't think his choice of HSF is the problem, Baklogic. Thermaltake is damn solid, but he should not even have those temps with stock HSF. Something is wrong, even if those temps won't kill his rig, they are still way high (for idle) and indicate a problem somewhere. Bench running it should have cooled it considerably. You got Arctic Silver and a Thermaltake (I assume that your HSF is rated for your CPU). That should have lowered your temps WAY down. The bench running it with no significant change signifies to me that it is not an airflow issue, but either direct with the HSF or with your temp sensors or software. We can eliminate your HSF if it is rated for your CPU then (you seated it right and used Arctic Silver). We are left with your sensors/temp software. What is the room temperature where the computer is? If you are reporting those temps with a room temp of about 70 F then those are HORRIBLE temps. Check to see if the HSF is rated for Prescott. Otherwise the only thing left to do would be to use a temp. probe to get an accurate reading (your sensors/software may be bad).

My old P4 3.0 Ghz (P4 531) Prescott was running at about 43 C stock at around 70 F room temp. With a Thermaltake I would have expected in the 30's.

One thing....At around 60 C (and even 50C) the exhaust air from your computer will be very warm/pretty hot. If you feel this air and it is cool or room temp (or so) from the feel, I would suspect the sensors even more. At those temps, you will feel some hot air. If they were a lot lower, air would feel cool (at 41C my C2Duo exhaust feels like cool air). So if your temp monitor is reporting 55C and air feels nice and cool, thats a good sign of sensor probs.

 

I do not disagree with the faulty sensor being the problem,
quote=kronus;928583]If the sensors are malfunctioning then any software that attempts to read of them would also be false.

 

I did not know that. Wow. I would have expected more from Thermaltake. I never used that brand before, but I have heard nothing but good things. With knowing that then it could still be the HSF. Cooling issues can be tricky and FRUSTRATING as hell sometimes.

 

If you can, in any way test your sensors, then I would listen to all the advice, that you get, and do so.
My old 3 gig was a horror to cool, at one time it was in the high 60's, and that was in England, in the autumn! -I did all that you have tried, and I found this one that I have now used on four similar systems to be exceptionally good, and I have been able to purchase them for arond £15-£17 pounds. They appear to have a good amount of fully spread compound, that I have not needed to change, and despite the size, are very light - Take the fan off to fit, then put fan on.
If it is not going to hurt to try it, the money side, I mean, it might be worth throwing a few quid at it.
If you try it , you may have to remove the side fan, depending on where it is, as it is tall.- -
But , please remember we are not professionals, and we offer you advice based , quite often, on our experiences, and the knowledge we get from working with computers, and even from each other.

 

Hi Myem,

Just wondering what your other temps are like ?

hard drives, GPU etc - whatever you can get a reading on

 

Based on Senorsview pro 3.1 :
GPU:70C (i am assuming this is my graphic card)
HDD:38C
Sys Temp:35C

At this point i do not feel like spending more money just trying to cool it.
i will probably try to put this into another mobo. there is a spare one that my bro doesn't use so will see what readings i get from that. i havent check but hopefully its for an lga 775.

i would say the exhaust air coming from the back is a bit warm but not as warm compared to say the air coming out from the PSU.

 

Yep GPU (Graphics processing unit) is your graphics card
and that is hot !!!!! (not in a good way )

My Temps (Everest)
Middle of summer here at the moment
Motherboard: 35
CPU: 40
GPU: 45
Hard Drive: 30

these are what i would call normal temps (finished gaming 10 minutes ago, just surfing the net at the moment)

If you can check with another motherboard, it would be a really good idea.
If your temps are accurate they are a problem.

I tend to agree that it must be faulty sensors/software
especially with you testing the board outside the case with a fan on it.
Would have guessed that would make a lot of difference to the temperatures.

The difference between using thermal compound and using nothing (on my CPU) is 10 degrees at normal operation
therefore the difference between a perfect application and an average application of thermal compound will most likely only make up to 5 degrees difference at normal operation.

Everest
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
is great, probably wont help you much with this issue - but still worth while having

good luck

 

Yea I've tried Everest before and gives same readings for CPU, although it says my GPU is 63C.
Right after i ran the report i turned on Sensorsview and that one says 70-73C. weird. i cant get any stable (or accurate) readings. this weekend will probably try another mobo.

It says you're in Albany.. i'm in Perth and its not much of a summer atm and yea still get those high temps. on a real hot day like 36-40C my cpu will go up to 60C (idle), though it hovers around the high 50's(idle) most of the time. will see how i go on the weekend

 

It will overheat by more than 10C eventually (surprising to me that it was even that low, but I never tried that). What happens is that due to the lack of the thermal interface material, heat will build up and won't be able to escape via HSF in a timely enough manner to keep it cool, hence, a bottleneck. Even at idle, temps will just keep building, and with usage, temps will shoot up immediately and eventually cause overheating (the heat just won't be able to transfer fast enough and will fry that chip). Arctic silver usually drops temps by up to 5C, but it is common that it takes a few months to see the full results as a kind of "break in" period.

 

Hi Walter
You mentioned "Arctic silver usually drops temps by up to 5C"
Is that over no application or versus another type of compound ?

I was expecting a bit of feedback on this subject after viewing previous threads on 'thermal compounds'
thats why i made a point of mentioning normal operation a couple of times.
i would expect the difference to increase as the temperature does.

The problem with getting accurate temps is there are so many variables.
Ambient temp, running time, applications in use etc

Only did it because the thermal compound i had bought the previous day was off (gone lumpy), and it was a sunday - shops all closed here - of course !

Turned out to be an interesting experiment
Difficult to know the full story with thermal compound, as everyone seems to have their own opinion.
There is no way I could bring myself to only use half a grain of rice of compound.
The compound I have been using (Deepcool Silver Tim) has a viscosity of 73 CPS - just cant see that spreading enough at such a low application rate.

It actually comes with a piece of cardboard to spread the compound, so I use more like ten grains of rice worth and spread it out as evenly as possible.
As I mentioned earlier that makes an immediate 10 degrees difference, So although most will probably disagree, it appears to me to be the right method (for this compound at least)

 

Hey Shane. That is versus other compounds that aren't of the same quality as AS. Arctic Silver is 99.9% pure silver using differing shapes and size particles for a maximum contact and conductivity. Even the filler used in it is 88% thermally conductive. It is very good and very stable. The crap that comes with an Intel HSF is a paste and doesn't have the silver, but uses a waxy substance that after it heats, fills the microscopic craters in the HSF and CPU heatspreader. It is not great thermally speaking and the waxy filling substance makes it a nightmare to remove completely for AS application (need clean pure metal contact). Some of the ones that claim to be good only have 10% silver. As far as I know, AS is the BOSS.

Absolutely right, there are a great many variables that go into getting good temps. All temps. are a function of room temp. to start. No matter what, as room temp increases, so will all the other temps. More accurately, ambient temp. since that can be controlled. But yes, there are many, many factors that determine your temps.

It is a great experiment, one to be done with a processor you don't care about though. With some of today's processors, they can get that hot in a matter of seconds.

Interesting.....With thermal compound less is better. It was hard for me at first to accept the grain of rice thing too, even not spreading it. Spreading it is not a problem as many people like to do it. One problem is contamination. With a compound like AS, you can contaminate it with any foreign particles and oils, even those from the skin. I would say 10 grains of rice is way too much, but you say it has worked. Compound should never get gunked up on the sides of the processor heat spreader, that causes heat buildup. You say that it gives you good temps, but I wonder if you tried it with a small grain of rice sized application.....you may get even lower temps. Remember, too much compound is just as bad as too little.

 

Thanks for the reply
walter34payton2002

Im not sure of the viscosity of Arctic silver
but I dont believe the stuff I use can physically cover the chip at that application rate, although that would depend on the change of viscosity relative to the temperature increase.

thermal compound is primarily aimed at temperature transfer/reduction
but there is also the effect of creating a buffer/shock absorber between the CPU and the heatsink reducing the chance of physical impact/damage and uneven pressure on the CPU.

I would also think you need an even coating to guarantee the full surface area is utilised, thus maximising the ability to transfer heat.

If you use the 'grain of rice' method, when you separate the heatsink from the
CPU at a later stage, do you notice if the chip has been fully covered by compound, and if not what percentage is normally coated ?

Thanks

 

Good observation, Shane. Indeed the whole surface of the CPU heat spreader is not covered with the grain of rice method. With that said, most of it is (and remember many HSF's surface doesn't cover the entire chip either but the HSF is almost entirely covered with this method). More importantly, however, is that studies have shown that (and I will try to cite some sources, just give me time), 99% of heat transfer occurs directly through the core to the same area of the heat spreader and then to the HSF. In other words, the heat passes right through that heat spreader. I believe one source I read was from AS's site, which is why they recommend that method (for dual core CPU's they call for a vertical line through both cores, longer than a grain of rice). Also note that there is nothing wrong with spreading the compound either just as long as contamination isn't an issue. With that said, if you spread it, that doesn't necessarily call for more compound. Just to see, why don't you try (maybe with an older chip) the grain of rice method, hook it up and then remove it. See how the heat spreader is covered. Almost fully with no risk of using too much. Check your CPU one day and see if it is gunked up and built up along the sides. That insulates heat and too much material actually makes it harder for heat to transfer. I am not saying you are necessarily doing it wrong- your temps are good and it seems to have been working, but I just wonder if this method would give you even lower temps! Again...I will try to find a few sources for my claims. I think I read this at Intel site and AS. Let me see what I can find.

I am not so sure about that. I don't think that the interface material is supposed to prevent any sort of shock. The only reason I am aware of for a thermal interface material is to fill gaps between metal surfaces that transfer heat in order to increase heat transfer. Period. There are microscopic gaps in the metal contact areas that are normally filled with air, which is a bad conductor of heat, that a thermal interface material fills. Many Thermal compounds are made of differing substances. The reason AS is so good is due to the 99% micronized silver that conducts excellent and its particle shapes that fill so well and conduct so well. That is why we just want a super thin layer to just fill the gaps so both surfaces are touching with no air, and in its place, a conductive material.

I hope this helps.

 

From Arctic Silver site- "Since the vast majority of the heat from the core travels directly through the heat spreader, it is more important to have a good interface directly above the actual CPU core than it is to have the heat spreader covered with compound from corner to corner."

I read a study on this too, but I can't remember where. I will try to find it. It cited actual numbers.

 

From all the little snippets that I have seen, the thermal interface material should be used sparingly, and the impression that I get , is that it is to fill the imperfections, as walter34payton2002 , says.- to ensure a good metal to metal contact - I have never seen it said to act as a cushion.

 

the impact thing is something I made up personally (all by myself )

It is not a listed fact it is just an ancilliary benefit

There is bound to be thermal expansion, and the rate is going to differ between your CPU and the heatsink, as they are different materials, sizes and are receiving the temperature change differently (CPU creating it - heatsink receiving it) therefore a malliable medium between the 2 has to be beneficial. The heatsink clips will also have some give in them which is probably enough to make my argument redundant.

One thing I was not happy about last time I removed my heatsink, was that it brought the CPU out with it, even though the CPU was 'locked' into the socket - a long way from ideal, but hasnt appeared (suprisingly) to have damaged the CPU or socket.
The most likely reason for this is over use of compound - yet again severely damaging my argument
I doubt very much that the heatsink and CPU are meant to stick together.

I have seen an experiment before where just about anything else used gave better temperature results than any thermal compounds
http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

 

Arctic Silver is so good because of its silver content and quality 1% filler. I knew a guy who had a computer shop where he built and sold custom rigs and he used toothpaste! Believe it or not, it works. That is crap though and I would be pissed if I bought that, but yes different materials can work because a great many things conduct heat. Just that nothing conducts heat as well as AS as far as compounds.

 

rolleyes
I would like to see what cushion effect that would have on socket 775 fittings, especially withthe artic freezer 7 pro that I like- especially when the postman drops it, if I sent it anywhere with that heatsink and fan fixed- they knocked intels fan off one that I sent through the post,:cry so if I sent another one , I would send a little arctic silver and the heatsink and fan in -a box!
Nice little discussion though - I wonder who got most help

 

If you want to post them them together you may be better off trying bubblegum as a cushion


Toothpaste ? - remind me not to shop there

 

their is one other thing i forgot to say, i couldnt see someone above suggesting this after skimming over it.

make sure your CPU bracket is well fitted to your mobo, had a problem the other week where we had a overheating issue with one of our machines, the fault was that one of the 4 retention clips which holds the bracket to the motherboard was missing, this caused a huge temp difference. make sure that your bracket is tight as possible.
Hope you get it sorted.