Determining Temperature of Northbridge Chipset

I don't know the best sub-forum to put this in, but I'll start in software, as if software is relevant, it will provide the easiest solution. Moderators - please move this thread to to the hardware or other forum if you think it would be more appropriate, at any future time (like if there are no useful responses after having been in Software for a week#

I'd like to determine the temperature of my Northbrdge Chipset.
This is I beleive two dies that are co-packaged into a single chip
Mine contains or is an Intel 845GE.

What's the easiest way of estimating i's temperature ?

Is there some program which might tell you, as there are other programs which can tell you the temperatures of other parts of your system ? Or would it need some kind of more direct thermometry.

Suggestions and best guesses accepted !

Dumb_Question
30.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB #1GB +1GB max# DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG #'upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

Although I don't thoroughly understand what precisely SpeedFan is doing, on my PC (OoO temporarily, I hope), and I rarely use HWMonitor because I seem to remember that it doesn't do anything SpeedFan and MBM5 don't wrt temperatures, and I've never tried CoreTemp, I think that at least SpeedFan, HWMonitor, MBM5 and SiSoftSandraLite do not give Northbridge chipset temperature information. I don't know about CoreTemp. If you would check these beliefs for me, I'd be grateful. It mght depend on your PC as to what temperatures are available: mine's pretty old as PCs go.
I'll check the Intel one sometime as that sounds promising.
Thanks.

Dumb_Question
30.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB (1GB +1GB max) DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG ('upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

Speedfan is a good program, but like many HW Monitors, it does not always put the right label to sensor. So it may say System Temp but show the CPU temp. You can use a program like Everest or Speccy to verify which sensor is right (as they seem better at matching), then edit the labels in SF.

I use CoreTemp, but it only shows CPU temps.

You normally do not need to worry about chipset temps IF you have decent front-to-back flow of cool air through the case, and of course, the interior is not covered in a layer of heat trapping dust, and if the chipset has a fan, it's spinning (I look for motherboards with passive - no fan, heatsink only - cooling for the chipsets because those 40mm fans fail too often and are not always easy to find replacements).

Thermometry. I learned a new word today.

Direct "thermometry" is difficult because typically, there is a heatsink sitting on top of the chip you need to measure. Still, I bought laser guided infrared thermometer like one of these to use when there is no sensor or I question the read out. Since those little thermo-diodes cost about 10 cents for 10, they obviously are not very high-tech, or accurate. They are consistent, which is really more important.

 

-> Digerati
That is exactly the kind of device I was thinking of, I hadn't dreamed they were so cheap, and with laser sighting and adjustable emissivity compensation ! That's the technology used in thermal imaging devices. Still, I imagine emissivity compensation is a bit tricky though.

I was thinkng I'd have to dangle a temperature sensing diode over whatever it was I wanted to get an idea of the temperature, or go to the trouble of modifying a heatsink (drilling a hole) to mount the same kind of device close to to chip !

I doubt my PC has good airflow over the northdridge chip, it's right next to one side of the exhaust from the CPU heatsink (if the CPU h/s fan, the only one in the case, airflow perpendicular to the plane of the m/b, blows air down through the h/s and doesn,t suck it in through two sides of the h/s) , and the airflow at that point is in the centre of the case in a direction perpendicular to the main external vent (hole) in the back of the case. (it's obvious if can find a pic of MS-6577 motherboard)

Dumb_Question
30.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB #1GB +1GB max# DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG #'upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

Dangle? Nah, that will not work because there is, or should be, too much air movement to get an accurate measurement.

As for air flow through the case, that is provided by your case fans (with help from the PSU fan - though that should not be included in case cooling). I prefer at least two large (120mm or larger) case fans, one in back exhausting hot air out, and one in front drawing cool air in.

 

The wires I was are pretty stiff - 23AWG single core. The case is on its side so the wires would only have be a few cm long. (that influenced my thinking)

What case fans ? (my PC contains only a PSU exhaust fan [80mm], and the CPU heatsink fan [70mm])

Dumb_Question
30.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB #1GB +1GB max# DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG #'upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

:eek Yeah, that's not good. While the PSU fan does force cool air into the case, the PSU fan is there to cool the PSU, not the rest of the computer.

And the CPU fan has one purpose, to toss the heat coming from the CPU's heatsink up into the flow and out the case.

You have next to nothing to create any flow. You need to open your case and look to see if it can support any additional case fans. If not, consider replacing the case - or running with the side panel open and a deskfan blasting in there.

 

Go tell the designers at Compaq that :-D I'm sure they'd appreciate your advice....hold on, maybe you're one of them ?

I apologise for waffling on, but here it is:

In fact runnimng with side panel of doesn't seem to make a lot of difference to the temperature. Idling CPU seems to to 33C, about 10-13C above ambient. I'm probabably not helping things a lot by running the PC on its side (motherboard lowest) for easier access to the motherboard, not that I'm doing much inside.

It's beginning to trouble me that although there was capacity for plenty of upgrades when I bought it, like 256MB of 2GB possible RAM, and empty AGP slot and 4 empty PCI slots, the basic doesn't seem to designed for for much of that.

I think the PSU fan is pulling air from the interior of the PSU and throwing it directly out of the back of the case, and the CPU heatsink fan is blowing air through the heatsink in the direction of the processor, but of course the air can only exit the h/s on two faces because that's all the fins allow, roughly in the plane of the m/b.

There's a hole about the width of the case in diameter in the back of the case which is pretty open (made up of open hexagons about 5mm across), and some much smaller vents in side panels (one of whch is often not present now, remember).

Aside from the files on this this PC it is so old and has so many irritating faults (like not booting) this PC is a "project", not worth much except the hassle of transferring (and buying) a new one. Hoever I'm not practical (eg when I take things apart they never go back together :cry) so I'm not into cutting holes in the case nor even "big" jobs like taking out the motherboard.

Dumb_Question
31.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB #1GB +1GB max# DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG #'upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

If I was one of them, your case would not have inadequate cooling.

Which is what it is supposed to do, but one little can in the PSU does not cause a lot of cool air to be drawn in.

Nothing wrong with that either. In fact, motherboard designers place heat sensitive and generating devices surrounding the CPU socket so they can take advantage of that expected air flow. This is just another reason using after market coolers are not always a good idea - depending on design and orientation, they may not provide the "expected" air flow as the OEM fans do.

I certainly would not cut hole in the case. But note removing the motherboard is not hard - if you can use a #2 Phillips screwdriver and take care to prevent ESD damage. Still, at this point, with that computer being so old, I think a new PC is due.

 

Thank you for all your comments.
I looked at the lnk to Intel website, but their utilities don't seem to cover chipses as old as the one on my motherboard.
My questions about air direction were really just to ascertain that I hadn't badly misread the situation as regards my fans.

Dumb_Question
31.August.2012
Compaq Presario S5160UK DT261A under XP/SP3
Processor - Celeron 2.7 GHz
Motherboard - MSI MS-6577 v2.1
RAM - 1GB + 512MB #1GB +1GB max# DDR PC2700
PSU - Octigen 300W model 10270PSOTG #'upgraded' from original Bestec 250W PSU [in 2011?])
Nvidia GeForce 6200 graphics card in AGP slot.

 

Your existing fans are fine - but really just not enough.