pardon my ignorance...

Okay, I hate to admit this, but my ignorance is winning here. Wisewiz, you gave me this help on getting my two hard drives to work together.

" The last steps are easy, cuz you've proven that you already know how to use a screwdriver and connect/disconnect cables and you know how to use FDisk.

Take out the orig HD and put it on the Slave (middle) conector of the IDE cable with its jumpers set to Slave, put the new HD on the Master (end) connector, jumpers set to Master. Go into the BIOS and get both HDs recognized. Exit BIOS and save settings, and let it boot to your boot floppy to go to Fdisk and remove the partition and make a new primary partition NOT ACTIVE on the old HD (making sure that you switch to Drive 2 and check to make sure you're dealing with Drive 2), then switch to drive 1, (still in FDisk) and make the partition that now has the OS and the programs and the whole ball o' wax on it, ACTIVE. "

Well, apparently I am not as wise as I thought with FDisk and BIOS. I've actually never worked with BIOS, and FDisk is keeping me in the dark as well. If you, or someone else, are feeling benevolent, I could use some more insight here. The drives are set up to be master and slave...they just aren't cooperating with each other. Sorry....

 

I'm the one who's sorry, imgnf. I assumed too much and said too little: a fatal disease in a teacher or a computing mentor. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

Come on back and tell us what exactly you've done and what's happening (or NOT happening), and mebbe the solution will leap right out of the description of the problem.

 

Maybe you should visit Seagate's site and download their DiscWizard Starter Edition 2003 (size: 3 MB). It is an overlay software for installing and configuring a new HDD, and they claim it works much better and faster than fdisk. With floppy version you then make 2 bootable floppies, with ISO image version you can make a bootable CD-rom. It's worth giving it a try - it's free.

 

okay...

Here's what I've done so far: I moved the new hard drive up to first position, with the end of the cable, and the old hard drive is set to slave (according to the top of the drive), and is plugged into the slave part of the cable (the second plug). Now, I can see both hard drives, but still cannot use the stuff on the old drive. So what's next? And thanks aurelius, I'll check out Seagate's site for that program. Wisewiz suggested something like that to help transfer the stuff. I love XP ... most of the time...

 

yabut

Aurelius, the only problem I see at first is that the seagate program is for seagate hard drives. Neither of my hard drives is a seagate. Will that matter? Is there a program out there that accomplishes the same thing for any hard drive. My new one is a Western. The old one is possibly a seagate, by the numbers of it. Here's some more info on them. The main drive (new one) shows a NTFS partition (using Aida), and the old drive shows a FAT32 partition, if that helps at all.

 

okay, it seems that the old hard drive is a seagate, so I've downloaded the program. But I don't want to do any more until I understand what I'm doing with all of this. Remember, I'm trying to get my old hard drive (from an HP Pavilion) to allow my new hard drive to use it's programs and such. This sounded easy when I bought the new computer....

 

I'm not an expert on this either, but I had a Master/Slave combo on my PC that was NTFS/FAT32 and it worked okay. I only did it to avoid losing data on my old 2GbHD, and once it was in and the data was copied over it just sat there, but it never was a problem.

 

yeahbut

I also did the same, but I can't any of the stuff from the old hard drive to work. I can open basic files, but I can't get the programs to run from it. That's my problem.

 

I still don't exactly understand what have you actually done.
You must take into account that only one primary partition should be active, and also understand the way that OS assigns drive letters. Maybe your problems are due to drive letter changes after installing a second disk.
The best program for working with partitions is PowerQuest's PartitionMagic.

 

simply put

What I did was buy a new computer, built by Ikon PC's at a local fair. The new computer has an 80g HD on it. I took the old 2g HD out of my HP Pavillion and put it in the new computer, in the slave position. I wanted to use the programs loaded on the old hard drive and keep the old drive as a back up, or secondary drive. But, I can't get the critter to give it up to the new one. So far I understand that I probably have partition issues. The old one is using FAT32, and the new one is using NTFS. Robo seems to think that could be one probably problem. So that's it in a nutshell so far....

 

Re: yeahbut

imgnf,

I just reviewed the original thread
HERE
and then looked at your recent posts, and I think I've discovered what the problem is and I also think I've discovered that there's no solution like the one you want, unless you start over and do it the way I suggested in the first place.

You originally said:
Alrighty, I have the new system up, intel pentium 4 and all, and I put the old hard drive from the old pavilion inside this monster. Now, how the heck do I get the files from the old drive to transfer? I'm talking MIcrosoft Word, and programs like that?

Me: So what you have is a lot of programs like Word INSTALLED (not just copied) on the OLD HD and they're INSTALLED to the OLD OS, so the OLD OS could run them. I suggested a way to get your old installed programs and your old OS to your new HD, and then use the old hard drive as a slave backup with NOTHING ON IT (because you'd delete the partition and create a NEW NON-ACTIVE partition on the old HD after you had transferred the contents of the partition to the new HD). What I suggested at the beginning was that you NOT install a new copy of XP to the new HD, but rather move the old XP from the old HD to the new HD with all of the programs that you had installed onthe old HD. Then you could erase the old HD and run everything on the new HD and use the old HD for anything you wanted to use it for. But you're running from a new copy of XP now.

You said:
The new HD already has itself as the master and is fully programed with new XP, and running fine. The old HD shows up as drive E, a seperate drive.

Then you said:
Here's what I've done so far: I moved the new hard drive up to first position, with the end of the cable, and the old hard drive is set to slave (according to the top of the drive), and is plugged into the slave part of the cable (the second plug). Now, I can see both hard drives, but still cannot use the stuff on the old drive. So what's next?

Then you said:
... I can't [get] any of the stuff from the old hard drive to work. I can open basic files, but I can't get the programs to run from it. That's my problem.

You installed a NEW OS to a new HD. The new HD is master and its OS partition is the Active partition on the machine. You put the old HD in as slave on the slave connector, but you left its contents intact, so that means that the partition it's on is still marked as Active. I don't think you can change a partition from Active to NOT Active in FDISK. In order to accomplish the change from Active to NOT Active, you have to delete the partition and then create a new one that you DON'T make Active.

But that's a side issue. The main issue: I told you how to get the OLD OS and all of the OLD programs from the OLD HD to the NEW HD.

But you skipped that step.

You installed a NEW OS to the NEW HD and then connected the OLD HD (with its OLD OS still on it) as slave, and now you can boot to the NEW OS on the NEW HD and see files on the OLD HD but you can't run the programs that are on it.

If all of that is correct, the REASON you can't boot to the new OS on the new HD and run programs like Word that are on the OLD HD is that those programs are not INSTALLED to the new OS on the new HD. It doesn't have them in its registry, and it doesn't know they exist, except as lists of files on the other drive.

Lemme know if I've misunderstood what you've done. If I have it right, and you go back to Plan A, you'll have the desired result, and we can help you with any of the FDISK and BIOS details you don't know how to handle.

 

whew

Okay, Wisewiz, you've figured it out. Sorry I was confusing about it. It obviously wasn't the dream I had where the two drives just get along. Okay. Plan A it is. As soon as I figure out the FDisk and BIOS stuff, I'm hoping it will all work out. Thanks for your patience.

 

BIOS: This is AFTER you have set up the OLD OS and the OLD PROGRAMS on the NEW HD, as suggested above with an imaging program.
*******************
First, insert your Boot Floppy into drive A. Then turn on the power to the machine.

Usually you get to the BIOS with Delete (tapped from power ON until you see the funny old-fashioned DOS-like display). If your machine wants another, different key, it'll tell you during the boot process with a message such as "To Enter Setup, Press <keyname>."

In BIOS, you have to move around with your arrow keys and use the Enter key to say Yes or Yes, this is where I want to work. Use the Page Up and Page Down keys to chnge settings once you get a setting highlighted.

You will scroll through choices with PU and PD, and get back to where you started eventually if you keep going.

When the screen opens, the highlight will be on the top left item in the menu. Click Enter, because you want to say Yes, this is where I want to work. Now use the Down arrow key to click through until you get to the highlight to rest on the second hard drive (the one that's set to Slave and on the Slave (middle of the cable) connector). Click Page Down to get to AUTO, then hit Enter. The drive will be detected.

Use Esc a couple of times to exit that set of controls in BIOS, and when you see the menu you saw at the beginning, use the arrow keys to move the highlight to the right and down to Auto-Detect Hard Drives. Click Enter, and check to see that the #2 HD is entered there, as well as the #1. (If not, use the arrow keys to move the highlight to the #2 HD, and use Page Down to run through the choices until you get to AUTO again and hit Enter.) It should be fine.

Use Esc to get out of that set of controls and back to the main menu again, and then use the arrow to get to Save Settings and Exit. Click Enter. You might have to clcik Enter again, or type Y to get it to say "Save Settings and Exit? Y" When it says that, clcik Enter and you'll be out of BIOS.

Now the booting process resumes, so you have to have the Boot floppy in its drive, waiting to be recognized.

(To Be Continued ...)

 

OK, so we went to the BIOS with the Boot floppy already in the A: drive, and we saved settings and exited the BIOS after we got the 2nd hard drive recognized (if it wasn't already).

When you exit the BIOS, the boot process continues, and since there's already a boot floppy in A:, the boot stops there. The first question you're asked is whether you want CD support or not. Unless there's a POWERFUL reason why you need to access a CD from a floppy-boot, ask for the WITHOUT CD Support option. Your mouse should work in a floppy-boot, even though it didn't work in the BIOS.

You'll see the message that it may take a few minutes to start your computer. It may.

When you see the A:> prompt blinking, you're ready to roll. Type FDISK and hit Enter.

The screen fills with words. Read 'em if you wish, but they're from another era. You don't really have the choice of saying No at this point, so say Yes by just hitting Enter.

A menu appears with 5 items in it. The 5th one is only present when there's more than one HD mounted in the machine. The 5th one is the one you want right now, so choose it (it says Change to other disk) by clicking it or typing 5 and hitting Enter.

It will ask which number you want to switch to. Look at the list carefully. You know what your two HDs look like, so make sure you see both in the list, and #2 is the OLD HD you've mounted as Slave.

Type 2 and hit Enter.

The next screen tells you you're in Disk 2., and offers the 5 menu choices. (You might have to hit Esc to get back to the 5 choices.

Now, I'm assuming that your OLD HD, the one you're going to use for backup and other things, has only one partition, and it's Active.

Choose the menu option that says Display partition info (or sthg like that) and hit Enter. It will list one partition, it will be a Primary partition, and it will probably be Active. All of that info is right there in one line.

Hit your Esc key.

The menu is back. Choose Delete Primary Partition. Enter. You will be warned. You have to say Yes, you have to type the Volume Name/Number between brackets [ ] , (you copy the volume number from the line above there on the screen, and if there's no volume name/number, you just hit Enter when the screen blinks for you to fill in the space between the brackets [ ]. You get asked to confirm all this because this process destroys the partition and all of the data on it becomes irretrievable.

It'll tell you the partition has been deleted.

Hit Esc (Escape) again.

Now you want to Choose Create a Primary partition. So long as the disk you're working with is the slave, it won't offer to use 100% AND make it Active all at the same time. It'll offer to make the primary partition using all available space on the disk. If your OLD HD is 80 Gigs or more, say NO to that choice, and then fill in the percentage you want to use in the next screen (say, 50%). If your OLD HD is 40 Gigs or less, just say Yes and let the program create a Primary partition of 100% of the space on the disk. (Unless you WANT to partition that disk into 2 drives. In that case, you'll have to get info on how to do that, or ask here, or work your way through it on your own. Basically, after you create the Primary partition, you can create an Extended partition, and in that extended partition you can use all of the available space as a logical drive, and you'll wind up with two drive letters on that HD.)

One of the menu choices on the original 5-choice menu is Make Partition Active. You DO NOT want to use that option on the slave drive.

OK, so you've created the Primary partition, and now you use Esc to get back to the main menu and Esc again to exit FDISK, and you'll be told you MUST restart the computer and you say OK and you'll be returned to the A:> prompt.

Whe you see the A:> prompt blinking, use Ctrl-Alt-Delete to reboot.

But you STILL have the Boot floppy in, so the boot will stop there. Choose Without CD Support again. Wait for the A: prompt again. When you have it, type DIR C: and hit Enter, and the folders in C: should fly by on the screen. That confirms that C: is C:.

Now type Format D: (assuming that D: is the #2 HD drive). If you have HD#1 partitioned into drives C: and D: already, then you'll type Format E: (assuming that E: is the primary partition of the #2 HD).

Confirm that you want to format when it asks. Type Y if it asks for Y/N.

It'll take a while. When it's done, and you see the report and get back to the A:> prompt, type Scandisk D: (assuming that D: is the #2 HD drive). When it finishes and offers to surface scan the disk, type N for No, and then type X for Exit, and when you see the A:> prompt again, use Ctrl-Alt-Delete to reboot, and this time reach over and take out the Boot floppy immediately after you hit Ctrl Alt Del, so the machine can boot normally.

Yoy have a clean empty second HD all formatted and ready to take data, and you have your OLD OS and your OLD PROGRAMS on your new HD and active.

Congratulations!

 

wow

Okay, Wisewiz, I'll give all that a try. As I said, I downloaded the program for imaging from SeaGate. I'll make the bootable disks with that, print out this info, and the also have my laptop next to me (on line) just in case. I imagine that this would best be done with the internet (cable modem) disconnected from this computer while I'm doing this. Just in case. I'm not going to try this today, due to a lack of time available. So, I'll work on it tomorrow. I do appreciate Sooooooo much the help you're giving me. Thanks.

 

just shoot me....

Okay, I found a program through this site called "DiskTools Image Maker". It says that I can make an image of the old HD, but that I shouldn't save it to the same drive that I'm imaging from. So, therefore, I should have it make the image to the new HD? Then restore it on the new HD? I want to get this done before I delve into the rest of this process, because that's what you referred to earlier: make an image.

Also, when you say a boot disk for drive A, do you mean a blank disk, or one that has been set up in some special way?

You are welcome to shoot me at any time here...but I'm determined to figure this out. Thanks for your help so far, Wisewiz, et al.

 

Re: just shoot me....

Hmmm.
First, a boot floppy is a floppy disk that contains enough programming to run your computer all by itself, and do some pretty fancy other stuff as well. It is definitely NOT a blank disk.

Easy solution for you (assuming that you HAVE a blank floppy and a floppy drive -- many new machines don't HAVE a floppy drive): Go to this address (click this link)
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm
and download the one that says Win98 OEM or the one that says Win98 SE OEM. It's an executable file. When you have it, put a brand new floppy in your A: drive and then double-click the executable file you just downloaded. It will write all of the necessary files to your floppy. When it's done, remove the floppy and put it in a safe place, away from any magnetic objects. You might want to check the floppy in your Windows Explorer, to make sure that it has both Command.com and FDISK.exe on it. You might also want to make a second copy as backup.

I'm going to have to think about the imaging overnight, and write in the morning. Tell me whether you have a CD-Burner up and running from the new drive with the new XP on it in the meantime.
*******************
Let's consider a much easier Plan B if it's available. We're working through all this stress because you want to get the old programs that are on the old drive to run in XP on the NEW drive.

You've already GOT XP installed and running on the NEW HD, and you can see the files of the old HD, but you can't run the programs there. I explained why a while back.

But if you have the original CDs for the old programs, you can just install the old programs to the NEW HD with the NEW XP, and then copy the data files from the OLD HD to the appropriate places on the NEW HD. If the old HD is only 2 GB, you can't have an enormous number of programs on it.

If you don't have the CDs for all of the programs that are legally yours, perhaps you can get copies and use your original ID and registration numbers to register them. And you can re-find things on the Web that you might have installed from downloads.

How far away from possible is this? What problems do you see? Mebbe we can beat the problems, and get you up and running with a system LIKE the old one (though not EXACTLY the same) without the extra imaging step.

Talk to us.
****************
Anybody else want to jump in here and tell me whether my friend can make an image of C: ON C: (the program would have to create a virtual drive and put the image in that, wouldn't it? or it would be involved in an infinite loop ...) or whether he can burn an image to CDs and then restore that image from CDs to a blank, formatted new HD by using the floppy version of the imaging program to access the CDs and restore to the HD ???

 

no doubt, but...

I'm not doubting you, completely, but just for my own information, why am I downloading a 98 version boot disk, when I'm running XP? Is it because I don't need the six disks for XP to accomplish what I'm going to be doing? Is the one disk for 98 good enough to accomplish it? I'm perfectly happy only having one disk to work with, but just making sure. I looked for the two things you asked for on it, and it has the FDisk on it, but I don't see a command.exe on it. Hmm...

 

ah

Thanks, robo. I just wanted to be sure. So now I have that, and if it's agreeable to all that I make an image to the new HD of the old HD, I should be ready to dive in and hurt myself....

 

Yeah, a lot of tippy-toeing is going on around this thread! Thanks for dropping by anyway, man.

Yes, imgnf, you have the DOS files you need and want to use -- on the SINGLE Windows 98 OEM floppy, and yes, command.COM (not .exe) is there, and yes, you have to have your Explorer set to geek settings (Show Me EVERYthing, dammit!) in order to see a hidden file like Command.com. (But that's ANOTHER thread!)

Your boot floppy should be almost full.

There should be instructions a-plenty with your drive-imaging program.

There is always a warning that you SHOULDN'T make an image OF a partition ON that partition, because the assumption is that you only want to RESTORE a partition because the partition doesn't WORK. If your image is on a partition that doesn't work, you're SOL. The program MAY let you make an image of C; on C:. I dunno.

I don't know the imaging program you have, but I spent quite some time last night studying the handbook for my Acronis TrueImage 6, and my conclusion is that the easiest way for you to proceed to get the contents (OS and programs) from the old HD to the new HD now is as folllows:

Create an image of the old HD. I'd put mine on CDs, but if the program will let you put it on the old HD, fine.

Create the bootable floppies or CD that the program tells you to make. (These are NOT the same as the boot floppy with FDISK on it.) The program is intended for use when your machine won't boot to your OS, so it will make bootable disks for you that let you boot your computer from them and run the IMAGE RESTORATION program from them. There should be ample instructions with any imaging program for all the things people need imaging programs for.

With an image safely made and your two drives installed and recognized in BIOS and your NEW HD (the one with the new XP you don't want to use, because it won't run the old programs) partitioned, formatted, and scandisked and ready to go...
(and that means the new XP installation that came with the computer is gone forever, and unless you have the discs for anything you WANT that's on the new HD, you'd better quit now),...
follow the instructions from your imaging program for a restoration to a NEW HD.

You'll boot from the CD or floppies the program told you to make. If your BIOS is set to check a floppy first, as it should be, you can boot to a floppy easily. If you want to boot from a CD, you will have to go into the BIOS first, find the list of BOOT DEVICES (usually it's in the SECOND item in the left-hand column of the BIOS menu) and use the arrow keys, the Page Up and Page Down keys, and the Enter key to do what you need to do to reset the BIOS so that the FIRST boot device is the CD-ROM. Make the floppy second, and IDE-0 third, and leave the rest alone. Use ESC to get out of there and move to Save Settings and Exit. Yes. Now let it boot to the CD or floppy MADE BY THE IMAGING PROGRAM (not the boot floppy we used to partition and format and scandisk the new HD). Take it from there with the imaging program's instructions for putting the image-- restored and set as Active -- on a new HD.

When you finish all of this restoration, you have to go back to the BIOS and put the Boot Sequence back the way it was: floppy first, IDE-0 second, CD-ROM 3rd (if you want it) or 3rd disabled and options thereafter disabled.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, GOOD LUCK! (But luck has nothing to do with it: it's knowing what you're doing and doing it right that counts!)

 

Okay, I have all that I seem to need to do this right. I need to get it all laid out in order of "need to do", and then review it a few times. I want to do it right, because luck is not always sitting in my room with me. I'm not going to do this until I've gone over it a few times to make sure I don't miss a step somewhere. Thanks a lot, everyone, for the help. And especially you, Wisewiz for your in-depth help here. Awesome work!

 

You can format hard drives from inside windows XP, as long as it isn't the drive that has the actuall OS on it that you want to use. I recently did this when my grandpa gave me a 12 gig hard drive he was throwing away. I put it in and set the jumpers correctly. XP recognized it and gave it a letter. Then I just right clicked the hard drive and selected format. I believe only in 9.x do you need to use fdisk.

imgnf: If you want to format the drive with XP on it...you should be able to just use the XP disks. I have formated hd's only using the 98 disk.

Next time I would have asked which OS cause that could have saved a lot of time. Since he could see an NTFS partition we knew he was using NT, 2000, or XP. 2000 and XP can format hd's and create and delete partitions within Windows 2000 has an administrative tool that does this stuff and I think XP does it too. Another thing, 2000 and XP support dynamic partitions, meaning you can change partition sizes anytime you want withing windows without formating.

 

josh,

You didn't read the beginning of the thread. This part is a continuation of another one a while back.

We established at the very beginning that he had two hard drives with working versions of XP on both.

The problem is a LOT more complex than you grasped: he wants the XP system and the full set of PROGRAMS and the registry ALL transferred from the old HD to the new HD, and he's willing to wipe the new HD to put the old HD's contents on it and run from those contents.

Now do you understand?

 

Now I understand. But why are you telling him to use a 98 bootdisk instead of XP if it is on the old HD (inquiring minds want to know). From what I'm reading it sounds simpler to use the migrating tool in XP to migrate files and settings over to the HD, then just reinstall the programs. Time consuming but less room for errors.

 

The tools on the 98 version are the ones he needs and the versions that were built from the 98 installations are all sound and solid. I use them and trust them all the time, so I recommend them to others.

Re: migrating: He HAD a perfectly good installation of XP on the old HD, and he bought the new computer with a perfectly good installation of XP on the new HD. The whole point here was that he wanted to move the old system and all of the old installed programs to the new HD.

I don't know the details for imgnf, but I understand that desire and sympathize, so I've tried to help him do exactly what he wants to do, even though it's a pain for him because he isn't terribly technically sophisticated. (But he's learning!)

I understand it because of my own situation: I have my OS so tweaked and patched amd customized, and my main programs so extensively customized, and so many programs (over 100 third-party apps and utils) that it would take me two WEEKS of all-day work to get my old system back if I had to go through a migration-and-re-install routine.

That's why I make a whole-disk image every single week without fail, and run an incremental backup to a second HD of EVERYTHING in my business folders that that changes--- every night.

My setup reflects a LOT of work that made it the way it is, and I can't afford to lose any of it just because I get a new machine.

One way of doing what he wants to do would be to install the new HD as Slave and give it two non-active partitions. Then, with the old HD as Master, I'd create a disk image of the old HD on the second partition of the new HD, and then I'd use the same imaging program to expand that image to a full-blown copy of the old HD on the first partition of that new HD. Then I'd switch the cables, make the new HD's first partition active, and ...

... boot to a brand new copy of my old system on the first partition of my new HD.

 

wow

Guys, I am learning. Probably more than my little brain was ready for. But it's great! I've looked at the possibility of the migration with XP, but I can't see how it's going to help me now. As Wisewiz points out, I have a different situation, so maybe I'm best sticking with what he suggests. Haven't done it yet, because I'm in the middle of closing on my house. But that's over as of tomorrow, so then I'll start to tackle this thingy. And to think, I used to be intimidated by calculators!