Saving Older Computer - A Tough Situation

I am trying to save an older computer that I have. It's tough to just throw things away especially since - in their time - the components were high end stuff. But, here is my dilemma and history of it.

1. 2012 Asus P5ND motherboard; Q9550 CPU; 8GB RAM
2. installed Win10Pro ( new license key ) CLEAN INSTALL onto Seagate year 2008 250GB HDD
   
3. After about 20 minutes to an hour of sitting idle (no programs installed; just Avast and Firefox) - BSOD's
4. Reinstalled OS several times; same scenario
5. Various BSOD's - memory management, IRLQ not less or equal; KMode Exception; etc. etc.
   
6. swapped out 3 different video cards; same scenario
7. installed Win7Pro ( new license key ) CLEAN INSTALL onto Seagate year 2008 250GB HDD
8. repeat 3 thru 6 above
9. ran Memtest86+ on all 4 sticks; 9 to 17 passes per stick
10. 1 stick had 1 error on Test #5 of Pass #6
    
11. decided to run 4GB (2x2gb) Ram for OS; leaving out the bad stick pair (2 x 2gb)
    
12. Repeated 2 through 7 above.
13. Never tested PSU

The above has all been over a period of 5 days. Like I said I hate to throw away hardware.

1. Is there any input from anybody on whether or not the motherboard is defective somewhere somehow?
2. Is there any input from anybody on whether or not the Power Supply could be causing all of this havoc?

Will GREATLY appreciate any and all input.

Thank you,

Dekade

 

1) ASUS motherboard - avoid all their 'utility' software, uninstall/rollback any asacpi.sys/SMBios drivers from Device Manager, the 'wrong' ones can and do cause BSODs, they're not needed anyway, ime.

10) Any error in the first 8 passes is an instant fail, once over ~25 passes, the chances of false errors begins to increase.

+ 14) test all RAM slots with a known good stick for 8+ passes.

 

What is involved in uninstall/rollback any asacpi.sys/SMBios drivers from Device Manager? What are the steps? What does the process accomplish - in general?

 

As the SMBios/asacpi.sys are software driven only, not real hardware drivers - and asacpi has been known to cause BSODs, you'd be ruling out a likely BSOD cause by disabling/uninstalling them. Some Gigabyte 'utility' software also uses asacpi.sys, use as little software that isn't Windows or real hardware drivers as you can during any troubleshooting.

With W8.1/10, a fresh install and then removing from the 'net will show whether it's Windows doing a driver update at the root of it or not, or at least, deny Windows from providing driver updates as soon as you can access the settings and rollback any that have already been 'updated'.

Very little to it, Device Manager, find the entry, right-click to Disable/Uninstall/Update/Rollback, etc., can be done from the Properties tab for the entry, as can checking the loaded drivers.

 

It only blue screens if it is left idle? Did you install the latest MOBO drivers for their website?
Left on and idle, I'd say more a power control issue - check the BIOS and the OS settings.
Have any exclamations in device manager?

 

Sorry forum. I just noticed the .jpg attachment in my original post. I had started another post about another topic; deleted the text; but forgot to delete attachment.

Forgive me Satrow, I'm having mental blocks/disconnects on your abbreviations - what are you referencing by 'net ????

Thanks foogoo for your reply. Yes, seems to be only when left idle. I haven't reached the point yet of installing programs to go to use. Just Firefox and Avast.

For Windows 10 there are no drivers for the ASUS P5ND MOBO. Some internet discussions suggest using 8.1 drivers for outdated MOBO's that are not specifically spec'd for Win10. For the ASUS P5ND all there is is an 8.1 Bios Update. No other drivers.

Then regarding the Win7Pro OS there were drivers but for some reason the OS I used went ahead and installed all of the chipset and audio drivers for the P5ND. Then when I went to ASUS there was a glitch in their Global download and the chipset update would not download. Just now I see that the global choice is working as a download procedure for the chipset.

Regarding your comment on power control - what should I be looking for in the Bios? OS settings only provide me with power management options - UNLESS - I am not looking in the right areas for more options.

I am still gathering info and advice from all of you and deciding which way to go with a final attempt. That said - I'm not really excited about another 5 day period of stress.

Tons of thanks,

Dekade

 

'net = network/internet, so Windows can't update and wreck the original drivers immediately. Might give you a chance to test vanilla W10.

 

Any unknown devices in the Device Manager list?

Consider using a boot tool like:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/all_in_one_–_system_rescue_toolkit_lite.html

It will perform some checks on hardware, etc.

 

Got called away from the computer . . . meant to add using a program like http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/driver_booster_beta.html is also helpful if there is a question about drivers possiblly being outdated or corrupted. I've used it for over a year now and have never had issue with it. It will check and update any system drivers you choose to update.

Check the programs listed here at Major Geeks for other utility programs that might address the problem you are experiencing. The Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/ultimate_boot_cd_(ubcd).html) is akin to the rescue tool kit mentioned in the last post, but it is more hands-on.
For that matter, Who Crashed (http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/whocrashed_free_home_edition.html) is a handy little utility that gives you more information on BSOD codes and can help narrow down what component is initiating the crash.


This does sound like a hardware issue . . . but bad drivers can cause such hardware related BSOD's. If you haven't done so yet, make a detailed physical inspection of the motherboard. Look for any leaking or swollen capacitors . . . most of the time, a bad motherboard is caused by bad caps. Capacitors can be had cheap and are not hard at all to replace, if you are comfortable around a soldering iron.

I can relate to not wanting to throw stuff away. That's still a decent board, and it would be a shame to have to toss it. Even if it comes to that, you can keep the case, RAM, CPU, optical drive/s, etc. as spare parts for a future project. Also, a replacement board of that exact or like type can be had on Ebay if this is your main computer and you are on a strict budget. All depends on what you need/want to do with it.

 

Thanks again satrow. I thought network/internet was where you were heading. Just wanted to make certain.

 

Just as a quick test, go into power management (in Windows) and set everything to never sleep and wait....

 

Spad, thank you for post 8 and 9. Relative to Unknown Devices - that answer is covered in step 7 below.

Forum - Here is where I am at currently:

1. Post #2 satrow suggested testing slots.
2. I used A1 to do initial Memtest86+; no need to recheck it
   
3. Last night placed good stick into A2; 9 hours later no errors in 11 passes; got up out of bed twice to see if I was past 8 passes yet. again. Finally just went back to sleep till this morning.
   
4. Just placed stick into B1; another 9 hours to go YUK (maybe - read on)
   
5. Will not test B2 after results of B1. No need to right now just to see if WIN10Pro (preferably) or Win7Pro will get up and running and stay running correctly
6. Very pleased with Win10Pro on my other 3 household computers; wish to stay with 10
7. I do have (Win7Pro) an Unknown Device listed under Other Devices. Absolutely cannot determine what it is or where it is coming from
8. I have checked my BIOS version and here are the results: ACPI BIOS Revision 1401 6/21/2010; SMBIOS version = 2.4
9. ASUS shows 1401 as the latest for both Win 7 64bit and Win8 64 bit; however the date is 2010/07/01
10. That makes the ASUS website update version 10 days newer; I do not know if those 10days would make a difference or not ????? Please advise
11. I am getting ready after this post to check out the Utilities in Spad's post #9
12. IF I RUN ANY UTILITIES - I will be running them in Win7Pro since it is the OS currently installed on the HDD. Would I be right in assuming that any matters that might/would be affecting Win10 would show in Win7 ?????
13. As of yet I have not done a physical check on MOBO. I have no problems at all with soldering electonics. Not excited about pulling MOBO unless I absolutely am told by forum to do so.
14. QUESTION: Is it advised to keep running the slot test on B1??? -OR- could I just put 2x2GB RAM sticks into A1 and B1 and check out some of the Utilities suggested???

My objective in the step 14 Question is to acquire advice as to how to best keep this from dragging on into infinity (well, not really infinity). If the forum could help me discern an order of approach, from where I am currently at, I would greatly appreciate it. I just don't want to always be putting the cart before the horse on this troubleshooting adventure.

Thanks again, Dekade

 

Good idea. I want to try that. I will wait to do that until I get a reply from my #12 post. In other words should I/can I stop the RAM slot testing?

Per my last paragraph in post#12 I have no problems with everyone's input. I want to be patient and wait to see if we can all come together with a game plan of approach.

 

"Probably" is the answer to that

7) The SMBios/asacpi.sys will give an unknown device in Device Manager if the software isn't installed and it's very unlikely to be a problem, wasn't for me. Just leave that one.

10) 10 days is likely the difference between building it, testing it and Releasing it.


There will also be Power settings deep in Device Manager for USB hubs/ports/devices and Wireless /LAN devices, Properties for each device > Power tab.

 

Well, I think what I'm going to do is this:

1. I finished running 7-1/2 passes on slot B1. No errors.
2. I'm going to populate A1 and B1 with 2GB each of RAM making 4GB total.
3. Install Windows 10 Pro
4. Install Avast and Firefox
   
5. Try foogoo's suggestion in post #11 and see what happens
   
6. start running some software tests as suggested by Spad in post #8 and #9

If anyone has further suggestions and/or advice please provide them.

 

Update:

1. Windows 10 Pro has been installed
2. Network settings adjusted
3. Firefox and Avast AV installed
   
4. Key has not been installed
5. Currently leaving PC sit per foogoo's post#11; all sleep settings turned off
6. No yellow ! in Device Manager
7. 'Microsoft Basic Display Adapter' is running Old GeForce 7600GS 256MB video card
8. Windows 7/8 driver (nothing newer available) located for video card; but, not yet installed
9. No digital screen display; minor distorted desktop; definitely not 1680 x 1050
10. Manual update initiated and downloading; downloading has been at 62% for 15 minutes; I may have to enter Key before obtaining Updates
11. 30 minutes total and no BSOD's yet
12. Updates downloads seem to be completing and at 96%

 

12) after the updates are installed would be the most frequent time for breakages to be obvious via blank screens, networking broken, BSODs, etc. Ensure System Restore is active (I forgot that) and that you have an SR point to fall back on, if you can at this late stage (related to me suggesting 'pulling the 'net plug' to prevent this happening right after a succesful install).

 

The PC was restarted before I turned around in my chair and read your post on the laptop. Darn! Anyway, I guess we'll hope for the best. I have unplugged the ethernet hard wire. No wireless. We are currently at the screen Getting Windows Ready. Do not turn off your computer.

I sure wish I would have thought of the restore point issue also. Oh well, if it all has to be redone, then it is what it is.

 

Probably okay to connect the ethernet now, any bugs will only be delayed (if that's part of the problem) until you do.

 

Completed updates. Some updates 'had problems installing'. Update says that it will try again later. There is also a RETRY button to click on. Maybe the installation Key is needed??????

There are no yellow ! in Device Manager.

I created a restore point as soon as the Updates were completed. I am going to leave the PC sit for maybe an hour to see if any BSOD's occur.

I just happened to think - I think I am still screwing up this 'net issue from satrow. I think I might need the internet ethernet wire plugged back into it's port. Am I correct????

Am I supposed to instead disable Network Adapter in Device Manager? Sorry, but I'm just not getting what I'm supposed to do. Something is mis-connecting in my head. Must be my brains. Darn those brains!

 

You can connect/disconnect either physically or via Device Manager. If your W10 now shows updates having not been installed correctly, reconnect and then hit the Retry button - after checking the state of SR currently and creating a Restore Point manually.

 

Internet plugged back in. Restore point created. Hit Retry button. Immediately went to 99%. Then in about 2 minutes it is 'checking for updates' again. Downloads finished. Asking to restart. Restarted.

Waiting to see what takes place.

 

Okay, you're now back to the point where any post-install 'updates' are going to make themselves known, it's where many bugs are picked up, esp. where bad calls have been made for 'updated' drivers. If it works as expected over the next day or so, disable Windows update from installing 'better/newer' hardware drivers - they're a frequent cause of BSODs, even with much more recent hardware than yours.

Edit: install only minimal software during testing, don't install any utility software until you're sure this version is stable (personally, I'd wait 7-10 days).

 

Okay. PC just finished 'Configuring' and is now rebooting. Rebooted. Screen is now black but mouse is showing. Screen now came back on. Blue background. 'Working on updates. Do not turn off computer. This may take a while. Your PC will restart several times.' The text is much smaller and crisper now. Updates must have located a driver for the video card. This might be where I see an ! after all is complete. The video card may be too old and might cause an issue. I'll just have to wait and see. It's been about 5 minutes and the updates are only at 4%. quite a ways to go.

I'll let it go through the process then let it sit and also check Device Manager for any !. Will probably call it quits after that and chill for the night. Will pick back up with the forum in the morning.

 

Right, that sounds like the initial install was from August's AU, rather than the latest version (can be downloaded via an ISO) and there's a long way to go still, there were a lot of big fixes and changes post-AU (we're almost at what would have been termed W10 SP2 already).

Check SR is on and create a fresh Restore point after each update, larger updates will wipe the SR slate.

 

Okay. Working on updates still at only 25%. I will keep an eye on things until I go to bed. Don't know where everyone else is but I'm in the USA, in Indiana, Central Time Zone. I will be back tomorrow. Thanks satrow! - and forum!

Dekade

 

It's 02:30 here

Sleep tight.

 

Update:

Everything is still working fine. The GeForce 7600GS 256MB graphics card was just installed. Created a Restore Point before installing card. Working great so far. Very nice crisp display. Shut the system down and did a cold boot. No problems. No ! anywhere in Device Manager. Sleep mode is still off. I am going to load a few programs. I'll leave the PC sit for a while and see if any BSOD's occur. Still haven't installed the Activation Key. Will still wait probably one more day to see how things move along and then install the Key.

Looks like I might have succeeded. My fingers are still crossed. But am very pleased at this point!!!!!

I certainly do not understand why everything has proceeded so well with the contents of my first post having set the platform for this entire thread. Scares me and I ain't afraid of nothin'.

Dekade

 

Well if you think everything is going great, turn sleep settings back on...that is one way to know.

 

Yep. I just was getting ready to do that. Thought I would check the forum first and see if anything new had popped up. So, we'll give it a whirl with the sleep settings. Thanks foogoo.

 

Well - I can't really determine what happened; but, a problem did occur. However, I made it out of the woods and will probably not be able to use sleep mode until problem is diagnosed. Here's what took place:

1. I set sleep mode for 3 minutes monitor and five minutes HDD
2. Monitor slept but HDD never did even after 15 minutes passed
   
3. Decided to try Start > Power > Sleep
4. Before doing so I noticed that AVAST had a red X on it in the task center
5. Proceeded with uninstalling it; very difficult for PC to complete uninstall but finally made it
6. Then decided to manually perform Start > Power > Sleep; left sit for about 20 minutes
7. On moving mouse to wake up PC ended up BSOD with "System Service Exception"
   
8. Pressed PC tower reset and logged back in; all of which took a long 20 minutes for some reason
9. Once logged in there were no ! in Device Manager; thank goodness
   
10. Fresh installed AVAST and did a scan of PC; no issues and running smooth; Windows Defender is disabled.
11. Control Panel > Power Options > set monitor and HDD to Never
12. Ran a new Create Restore Point
    
13. Will just turn off monitor manually at this point (and HDD for overnight's) until I figure things out further
14. I think I will do a driver scan as initially suggested by Spad
    
15. PC has been on for over an hour now and no BSOD's
16. Surfing internet just fine; still haven't installed any programs.
17. Might install some programs; also Aomei Backupper and start running System Image's as programs are installed and trial and errors are performed.

Any ideas or comments?????

 

In your original post you said IRLQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL that means one of your RAM sticks has gone bad.
Take the first RAM stick out and turn on your computer. If you get the BSOD put it back in and try the next one.
Keep doing this until no more BSOD now you have the bad RAM stick out replace that stick.

 

No it doesn't, a single occurrence of an IRLQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL might mean anything or nothing, multiple consistent IRLQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is most often bad drivers.

 

RAM and RAM slots have already been thoroughly checked. Post#12 and post #15. One stick was found bad and returned to GSkill for warranty replacement. Currently running on 2x2GB as discussed in earlier posts.

 

Update:

1. PC has been sitting for about two hours with a few dialog boxes sitting open
2. Went to move mouse and it barely would move; sometimes being erratic.
3. Finally screen went blank and eventually produced a BSOD
4. BSOD dialog stated the following: Stop Code: video TDR Failure; What Failed: nvlddmkm.sys

I think the video card may be overheating. Looked up the .sys file on internet and it kind of supports what I am surmising. I am going to order a case side fan to help keep the card cooler. May need a cheap newer card. For some reason I have never been fond of NVIDIA cards. Have an old GTS250 that never was used more than a few hours. It continues to just sit here. I have AMD cards in 2 of 3 of my computers. In the meantime I have downloaded Driver Booster Free and I am going to run it to see what it discloses.

 

The only driver that showed up as outdated was the Realtek High Definition Audio Driver. Downloaded and installed.

I think I am possibly looking at a video card issue. Very old card. Should I wait until GSkill sends me my replacement 2x2GB RAM before replacing the card? Would the extra 2x2GB help the card? The GeForce 7600GS card driver is the most current GeForce 7 series version driver and I downloaded it direct from the GeForce website.

 

Yes, if thorough cleaning/adding an extra fan doesn't fix a TDR crash, then the hardware is most likely at fault, esp. where it's older.

I doubt that more RAM would help the card but that's mostly guesswork.

 

Yes. This particular card does not even have a integrated fan. Only a heat sink.

 

I realize that everyone has their own opinions on hardware and software. Earlier I made the comment that I was not fond of GeForce compared to AMD. However, the AMD choices are almost non existent for PCIe 2.0 x 16. How have forum experiences been with GeForce in general?

The P5N-D motherboard has 2 each PCIe 2.0 x 16 slots. Does that mean that a PCIe 2.1 x 16 video card is not compatible?

There are about quite a few GeForce graphics card choices for PCIe 2.0 x 16. Most are EVGA. Any experience on forum with EVGA, Gigabyte, or, ASUS????

Are graphics cards that are DDR3 compatible with motherboards that are DDR2 RAM???

ANY FEELINGS ON FAN vs FANLESS graphics cards????

 

The foundation of any system is the power supply. Insufficient wattage will lead to problems. A lot of problems.

Any card will work with your motherboard, provided it's PCIe, not PCI or (gasp!) AGP.

As far as fans, it depends on what the card is made of. Nominal cards for general use really don't need one. Heavier duty cards (gaming, graphics rendering, etc.) require additional cooling. This also must be backed up by case cooling. The heavier the system load, the hotter it will run.

 

Yes, I have been considering the PSU also as a potential hazard in this mix of problems. A few days back I searched the internet on testing a power supply and didn't really find anything that supported checking out a PSU with the absence of a bunch of headaches. I guess I will price out a PSU also. I can do a nice AMD rebuild for $200 that includes a MOBO, RAM, and Processor. I might be wise to go that route versus plowing the dollars into this. I wish I knew if this PSU were faulty.

 

Best PSU diagnostic tool I know of:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5&cm_re=psu_tester-_-9SIA24G28N4655-_-Product

 

A GT 730 GDDR5 25w card might be a safe buy, providing you can still find one at a reasonable price. Most makers sold the lower performance, cheaper to make, DDR3 versions (with double the amount of slower RAM to make them 'look' better value). GDDR5, higher memory bandwidth, higher efficiency: http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-730/specifications

Providing your case has good airflow, a 25W GPU won't require an onboard fan if the heatsink is well designed.

Buy a good quality PSU now and it'll still be a good quality PSU when you make the jump to a new build in a year or two, hardware performance/efficiency trends have already allowed recent Intel Quads + GTX 970 (~250W under benchmarking) to game comfortably on good quality 450W PSUs (AMD equivalents have been less efficient, though their latest GPUs have gained a lot of ground).

 

Thanks. I didn't know something like this existed. I am now deciding between it and a good quality new PSU. However I can see the beniefit of having this tool available since I build all of my own units.

Some great advice and suggestions. Thanks satrow. I will hit the online stores and see what I can come up with for a PSU and graphics card.

The forum has really been providing some solid advice and patience in this thread. That said, it sure makes the life of hobbyist builder a lot easier and more predictable.

 

Kind of a loaded question but - What would determine a well designed heatsink.

 

Hmm, in this instance, the case design plus case fan(s) placement to get enough air flowing over the heatsink (any passive heatsink, not just on the GPU) and a good fan exhausting the hot air. So it's a combo, good passive heatsink plus good airflow.

On some desktop, as opposed to tower, cases, I've improved temperature issues all round by reversing the stock OEM fan's flow. Some testing using a good temp. gauge software (I use HWiNFO32/64, set for Sensors only) will quickly give you a baseline for HDD/CPU/GPU/Northbridge temps, so you can see where improvements need to be made.

 

Thanks again satrow. Some interesting things have evolved.

1. I discovered this morning, by looking up my past orders at B&H Photo, that I had ordered an Antec 450W PSU for this computer in September 2016. I had forgotten that, at that time, I was trying to convert the unit into a server. (Gave up on that scenario) Thus, a fairly new PSU. Doesn't mean it's good though.
   
2. So, I have decided to order the PSU tester suggested by the mekanic in post #42; need to have one of those anyway.
   
3. I took the case side off and have left it off while doing a test. What I have done is just leave the PC sit in an idle mode and I have the monitor turned off to prevent screen burning
4. Two hours have passed and no freezing/BSOD
5. Despite that amateur test showing the 7600GS may be okay I think that I will probably still replace it with a cheap better one like the GT 730 GDDR5 (of which I have found for $69.99 at NE); I will also be ordering a 120mm case fan or two to create some really good airflow.

I think I finally might be closing in on this whole ordeal with a positive outcome.

 

Well, I'm still at it here.

1. I decided to again try a Sleep Power Plan again.
2. Got the BSOD as it tried to put the HDD into Sleep Mode.
   
3. Then ran Driver Verifier which turned up a BSOD with aswvmm.sys as the proposed culprit
4. Took quite a bit of work to exit out of Driver Verifier
5. Searched for the aswvmm.sys and came up with this http://windowstechies.com/-/en/file...e=aswvmm.sys&gclid=CMmV-8jZl9ECFQcbaQoduK4Caw
6. On the web page you can see there are some good supporters of this "FIX"
7. I'm not really fond of Registry software - BUT - does this appear to be a safe 'try' ????
8. This link suggests a problem with AVAST AV. http://superuser.com/questions/1081...ing-aswvmm-sys-digital-signature-check-failed
9. Other places on the internet also talk about AVAST being a problem with the aswvmm.sys file

I do need some advice on how to best approach this aswvmm.sys finding.

 

It might be a false positive, better to wait for 2+ BSODs. It's unlikely to be Avast, unless it's clashing/fighting with some malware or another AV software.

Don't touch that software, I wouldn't use anything by Paretologic if I was paid to.

Zip and attach the minidumps here, I'll take a look at them.

 

Hate to be dumb - but - how do I create a mini dump report?