Assisted Suicide

[Nedlamar]

Originally Posted by gloozit

I started to edit my last post and it was addressing this. (ran out of edit time)
Basically what I was going to say is this:
Most everyone's posts are, "I think".
Has anyone considered what that person, with the unacceptable quality of life thinks?
Steven Hawking does not have an acceptable quality of life. Should we off him?
Alll he can do is sit twisted and contorted in that wheel chair. Let's get our black bags and go help him out.

Stephen Hawkins I think (lol) would agree his quality of life is not completely gone, he still has the means of communication, laughter, family etc.
A freind of mine suffers from a very similar ailment, has since birth, only has the use of 4 fingers and his mouth and eyes, but he enjoys things, he's not in so much pain all he thinks about is ending it, he wonders what he is going to do tomorrow... he doesn't wish tomorrow never comes.
And niether (to my knowledge) are dying in pain and suffering. So both still have a certain amount of quality of life.

I'm talking about when there is none, when the person will never laugh again and never enjoy anything again because the pain or illness prevents them from that, only sadness and pain left is no quality of life.

@Sgt.Tibbs... I can't express how I feel about your post, the only thing I can think to say is I hope for the best of what can be for all of you. My heart goes out to you all.

[LauraR]

Originally Posted by gloozit

I started to edit my last post and it was addressing this. (ran out of edit time)
Basically what I was going to say is this:
Most everyone's posts are, "I think".
Has anyone considered what that person, with the unacceptable quality of life thinks?
Steven Hawking does not have an acceptable quality of life. Should we off him?
Alll he can do is sit twisted and contorted in that wheel chair. Let's get our black bags and go help him out.

Where does the line get drawn and who decides what "acceptable quality of life" is?

I'm pretty sure this this thread is specifically about assisted 'suicide'....not murder. I'm also fairly certain Steven Hawking doesn't want to be offed.

From what I've seen, most believe it should be the person's right in a situation where they are terminal and in pain, that they should be able to end their own life with the help of modern medicine...the same way it keeps people alive in extreme situations. I don't think anyone is proposing to make the decision for them...or if they did, I missed it.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Nedlamar

I'm talking about when there is none, when the person will never laugh again and never enjoy anything again because the pain or illness prevents them from that, only sadness and pain left is no quality of life.

Again, Who makes that decision??? Who knows what is going on in a mind that can no longer communicate with us? And without his money, Mr. Hawking would not be able to have his quality of life.
Even someone who has said, "Kill me, if I lose my quality of life, can change their mind, once they are unable to communicate.
I would not want to make a choice like this. But someday, who knows?
I said before, this is not something to easily think intelligently about.
This is something that needs the actual experience, otherwise it is just a guessing game.
Science Fiction, is still fiction.

[dyamond]

Originally Posted by Nedlamar

Ok firstly, I never said you were "Wrong" I said in my opinion you have it the wrong way round. It's an opinion, it can't be wrong either way
That's me trying to avoid a fight with you because I get shoes thrown at me enough as it is

Wait, your opinion is that my opinion isn't wrong but I "have it" (my opinion) wrong but it's your opinion so it can't be wrong? It's no wonder you get shoes thrown at you all the time

Originally Posted by Nedlamar

And the defining line should be fairly clear in most cases, I would never agree with someone who simply doesn't want to live anymore because of money or a bad knee. As I said, once the quality of life is gone and will not be coming back 100%, THEN the Doc assist comes into play, I have always felt this way.

Seems you and I confused what the other was saying because reading your reply suggests you pretty much agree with the basis of what I said and vise versa.

Basically, if something CANNOT be cured and quality of life is gone, then Nature should be allowed to take it's course.

With a topic as sensitive and emotional as this is, it's really hard sometimes to express what you are feeling though the internet. Trying not to come across sounding condescending or unfeeling or overly emotional is rather tough and which is why I try to use smilies the to show that emotion because it's really easy to get hurt feelings unintendedly. Even though I think that everyone in this thread as expressed themselves rather eloquently, there still chances that things can get misconstrued (like what you posted above, Ned). I think we were in the same mind too.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by LauraR

I'm pretty sure this this thread is specifically about assisted 'suicide'....not murder. I'm also fairly certain Steven Hawking doesn't want to be offed.

From what I've seen, most believe it should be the person's right in a situation where they are terminal and in pain, that they should be able to end their own life with the help of modern medicine...the same way it keeps people alive in extreme situations. I don't think anyone is proposing to make the decision for them...or if they did, I missed it.

I haven't seen anyone say, "Leave it to the dying person." They have all said, I think................
Steven Hawking was used, as an example of "quality of Life" His sucks, compared to mine, and mine sucks compared to the 25 year old me. The purpose was to ask, where to draw the line.
And taking a life is murder, whether it is suicide or not. Whether it is for a "good" reason or not.
And who knows if the dying condition one has today, can be cured tomorrow? It happens.
I'm just saying, this is nota light subject and NO ONE can really make an intelligent decision on this, until it actually faces them.
It is just words, until then.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by dyamond

. Trying not to come across sounding condescending or unfeeling or overly emotional is rather tough and which is why I try to use smilies the to show that emotion.

Screw the smilies, let 'em read your words. You make sense without the smilies.
It's people like me, who really should use them, because I think some of you don't actually read and I don't actually get full thoughts out of my fingers, all of the time.
I think i need to go to self typing dictation software. Then you would really get some long posts.

[gloozit]

I guess it wouldn't hurt to say where I am coming from.
I watched my father die. I watched his quality of life drain. I watched him be taken from his house, by the undertaker.
I watched him accept the words, You have less than 2 months to live.
His life ended before we had to make that decision.
I still don't know if I could have said, Pull the plug, if I needed to.

All I have read is fiction, except for Sgt Tibbs post.

[BILLMCC66]

This is a very emotive subject and as i wrote in post #18 we have had a family member request the doctor to end the pain and suffering for him as with Sgt Tibbs is is a decision that no one can anticipate until you are faced with the situation.
Not long after my accident when i was in a striker frame (see photo) I had times when i wanted to let go but now i have sort of recovered i am glad it was not an option at that time.
Due to the advances of orthopedic surgery i am once again functional (almost )

There are time in all our lives the we get depressed but we recover and that is the point of the need to meet a very strict criteria before assisting someone to pass.

Having said all that no one knows how much pain is too much and we each have a different tolerance so we have to have the final say in such a situation.

[COMPUABLE]

Evidentially, England supposedly has absolutely no problems whatsoever with practicing euthanasia on a regular basis.

In yesterday's dailymail.co.uk; a professor claims "England's National Health Service (also known as NHS) doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds" (at the rate of 130,000 elderly patients every year).

To Read More: Click Here

Good Luck! -- COMP

[gloozit]

No words here except maybe these,

Originally Posted by gloozit

there would be two dead nurses..

Change nurses to doctors.

[dyamond]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Screw the smilies, let 'em read your words. You make sense without the smilies.
It's people like me, who really should use them, because I think some of you don't actually read and I don't actually get full thoughts out of my fingers, all of the time.
I think i need to go to self typing dictation software. Then you would really get some long posts.

Aw thanks! I'm glad I make sense to someone, I don't always make sense to myself though

I think you do a pretty swell job at it yourself. I can always understand where you are coming from.

[Fred_G]

I think the person in the chair would be the one to decide that Gloozit.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Fred_G

I think the person in the chair would be the one to decide that Gloozit.

Not sure I understand, Fred. Person in the chair? Euthanasia chair?
Yes, I understand it should be a personal choice, but in many cases, it's left to families, because things went so far, that the actual person is not able to communicate and no documents made up.

[LauraR]

gloozit, I'm not sure, but I'm interpreting you as talking about something different. You are talking about (or at least including the cases) someone incapacitated and their family making the decision for them. Most people...the ones who have wills anyway...have 'living wills' where they give their own wishes as far as keeping them alive. Mine, personally, happens to be I do not want to be kept alive if I am in a state where I have no hope of recovery.

At least in my view, this is about assisted 'suicide' which is the person who is in the terminal state (ie, last stages of cancer or some other terminal illness) stating that they wish for the doctors to help them end their own lives...not someone else deciding it for them. There are many in this country (US) who are in the final stages of disease who are capable of cognizant thought. That, at least, is what I'm talking about.

[gloozit]

I'm not sure anymore either,. Laura.
I think I need to go back to Go and start over.
I think I may have taken a wrong turn in Albuquerque.
I thought I was reading earlier, about people making the decision for others.
But according to the title on this thread...................................

[Sgt. Tibbs]

Assisted suicide is exactly that...medical assistance for the ill person to commit suicide in what will hopefully be a less painful and traumatic manner than they could manage on their own.

Deciding to remove someone from life support when they have not previously made their wishes clear is an entirely other kettle of fish.

[the mekanic]

mister tibbs. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole ellipsis

[LauraR]

Originally Posted by the mekanic

mister tibbs. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole ellipsis

That would be 'Ms' Tibbs.

[Sgt. Tibbs]

Originally Posted by LauraR

That would be 'Ms' Tibbs.

That it is. I'm just baffled as to why that statement would require caution.

[Fred_G]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Not sure I understand, Fred. Person in the chair? Euthanasia chair?
Yes, I understand it should be a personal choice, but in many cases, it's left to families, because things went so far, that the actual person is not able to communicate and no documents made up.

Let me elaborate. The person 'in the chair' so to speak, would be the one with the disability. Like Hawkins, who seems to doing well.