Windows 7 freezes

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by mapache, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I know...I know... I'm posting about my OS freezing in the hardware section.

    I recently upgraded my desktop to Windows 7. This is what I'm working with:

    Operating System
    MS Windows 7 32-bit SP1​
    CPU
    AMD Sempron 3100+ 35 °C Palermo 90nm Technology​
    RAM
    1.25 GB Single-Channel DDR @ 200MHz (3-3-3-8)​
    Motherboard
    First International Computer, Inc. K8M-800M (Socket 940) 28 °C​
    Graphics
    eView 17f3 (1024x768@1Hz) Standard VGA Graphics Adapter​
    Hard Drives
    98GB Seagate ST3100011A ATA Device (PATA) 28 °C​
    Optical Drives
    ATAPI DVD A DH20A4H ATA Device​
    Audio
    Realtek AC'97 Audio for VIA (R) Audio Controller​


    After upgrading from XP to Windows 7 Pro, I began having a whole gaggle of vertical multi-colored lines on my monitor when running Windows. Figuring my built in video card was taxed beyond belief, I got another one that's supposed to work with Windows 7 according to Microsoft's W7 hardware compatibility site: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Details.aspx?type=Hardware&p=Jaton%203DForce%20FX5200TV%20Graphics%20Card&v=Jaton&uid=3DFORCEFX5200TV&l=en-US&pf=0&pi=1&s=jaton%20tv&os=64-bit

    After installing the new video card, no lines on the monitor. YES! But, Windows now locks up and does it during a multitude of different programs.

    W7 requires 1GB of RAM to run the software. As shown above, I have 1.25GB running at 200 mHz. When I looked today at getting another 1GB module, I noticed it's 400 mHz.

    Q1. Is the lack of RAM possibly causing the lockup?

    Q2. If I get a 1GB @ 400 mHz module in with my current 1GB @ 200 mHz module, will it cause problems; or should I get 2 400 mHZ modules?

    Q3. Aside from replacing/swapping parts like a shadetree mechanic until it "runs", is there a software tool or something built into W7 I can use to figure out what's going on with the desktop?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    Can you please clarify what card you are now using?

    Two things spring to mind:

    1) your PSU cant handle the new GPU,

    2)Your GPU uses shared memory and is eating up system RAM which is already low.
     
  3. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Since the system kept freezing I removed the AGP video card which is in the Microsoft link. I am currently using the built in eView 17f3 (1024x768@1Hz) Standard VGA Graphics Adapter, but am back to getting the vertical lines on the monitor.
     
  4. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

    You listed resolution at 1024x768@1Hz. That should be set to at least 60Hz and for a CRT monitor it should be set to 75Hz if the VGA adapter allows it. When you installed the graphics card, was there a setting in BIOS to disable on-board graphics?
     
  5. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    When I installed the card and turned the computer back on, Windows detected the card and installed its own driver.

    How do I change from 1 Hz? Is that through display properties in Control Panel?
     
  6. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

  7. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I reinstall the new graphics card first and then follow that tutorial, correct?

    Without the graphics card in, I don't have the option to change the refresh rate. "Use hardware default setting" is the only thing showing. I'll install the card and see if that changes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  8. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

    The suggestion I gave was to correct the lines when using the onboard graphics.

    When installing the new Graphics card, make sure if there is a BIOS setting for disabling onboard graphics. This may be why it is freezing but as Tueur pointed out, your graphics card may be too much for your computer, especially if the PS cannot handle it.
     
  9. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Gotcha.

    I'll check into the BIOS issue and look for a new power supply.

    Thank you both.
     
  10. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

    It may be cheaper to upgrade your ram first to see if that solves the problem.
     
  11. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I checked Device Manager and the new graphics card is the only one listed and was disabled. I enabled it and will stand by to see how much that helps. rolleyes

    :)
     
  12. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Agreed. So back to the OP, will adding a 400 mHz module to an already existing 200 mHz module cause any issues? 1GB is 1GB, right?
     
  13. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Sorry, I missed that. DDR modules that show 400 actually run at 200 MHz. Do both modules say PC3200?

     
  14. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

  15. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    Where did you read that it is running at 200MHz?

    Your MB runs upto 400MHz and your RAM runs at 400MHz. Download CPU-Z and list your clock speed, CPU multiplier and memory speed.

    you should have a clock speed of 200MHz and a multiplier of 9. If this is the case then your RAM must be running at 400MHz already as on K8 Architecture the memory bus is double the clock speed when using DDR and 4xclock speed with DDR2. The only way you could get a memory bus speed of 200MHz is if your CPU clock is 100MHz with a multiplier of 18.
     
  16. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I got that from the bolded section in my OP which shows 1.25gb @ 200mHz.

    I just got to work, so I'll run that for you tonight and post it then.

    That last paragraph is all Greek to me. :)
     
  17. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    I know... I also got it from that but you wrote the OP so you must have got the info from somewhere unless you made it up. ;)

    Basically the speed of your CPU is determined by the core clock speed times the CPU multiplier. your core clock should be 200MHz which would require a CPU multiplier of 9 to get to 1.8GHz ie 200x9=1800. This relates to the number of bits of information that your CPU can process each second 1,800,000 bits per second.

    Your memory bus speed is also relative to your core clock. This is a somewhat crude way of calculating it but basically DDR (Double Data Rate) effectivly means that it carries out 2 operations per cycle. DDR2 will carry out 4 and DDR 3 will carry out 8. So your Memory bus speed is your core clock (200) times 2 because you are using DDR RAM.

    We know you are using DDR RAM so if your Memory Bus IS running at "half speed" (ie 200MHz) you core clock MUST be running at 100MHz. In order to achieve a CPU speed of 1.8GHz you CPU multiplier MUST be 18 (100x18=1800)

    Something in the back of my memory tells me that you cant increase a multiplier above its stock (in your case 9) This means that IF your Memory Bus IS 200MHz, your core clock MUST be 100MHz and your CPU Multiplier can not be above 9, the max that your CPU is running at is 900MHz.

    The only other possibility would be a memory divider but I dont know if they are supported under K8 and I doubt very much that your MB will support that.
     
  18. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    I meant to finish by saying that I think it is more likely that the 200MHz that you quoted in your OP is actually the clock speed in which case your memory bus speed is already 400MHz
     
  19. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    sorry for repeat posting, but something else that just occurred to me. You say that you have 1.25GB of RAM. Does that mean that you have 1 x 256MB and 1 x 1GB stick? if so take out the 256MB stick and see what happens.

    It maybe that your stock 256MB stick is only 200MHz and that is kicking in a memory divider, which means that both sticks are running at 200MHz (ie the lowest common denominator). taking out the 256GB stick might drop out the divider. 1GB running at 400MHz will pi55 al over 1.25GB at 200MHz.

    As an aside some of my terminology was a bit off below, so apologies for that. The figures you want from CPU-z are Bus Speed, multiplier and core speed from the CPU tab and the DRAM speed from Memory Tab. Run it first then pull out the 256MB stick and run it again.
     
  20. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Gotcha.

    That data came from Speccy.

    The memory is as you thought: a 1GB upgrade with an original 256k module. I'll do the checks as you requested and post the results.
     
  21. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I also ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool for S&G - no issues were found.

    I attached both CPU-Z logs in case you get bored. ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    Something really bizzare is going on here. When you took out the 256MB you CPU Multiplier dropped from 5 to 9. This means that your cpu speed dropped to 1GHz. How clean is your CPU cooler? I assuming that you havnt changed any BIOS settings?
     
  23. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I haven't changed BIOS to my knowledge. The fan/heatsink on my CPU was blown out with compressed air a couple weeks ago when I originally registered here.
     
  24. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    New memory stick and PSU are en route from Newegg.
     
  25. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    you may need to manually adjust some of your bios settings to get them set properly. when you took out your 256MB stick your CPU speed plumited. Ill see if I can find some info on memory dividers.
     
  26. tgell

    tgell Major Geek Extraordinaire

    I am no hardware guru and I would like to defer this to Tueur. On the specs of the motherboard, it specified Dual Channel. If the OP took out the 256MB module out of slot 1 and left a module in slot 2 with none in slot 1 would this have any affect?
     
  27. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Thanks. When I looked at the Phoenix website for BIOS support, I was routed to BiosAgentPlus http://biosagentplus.com/?ref=752

    Once I get the new PSU and memory stick installed, I'll run new data. I'll replace the old 256MB stick in slot 1 with the new 1GB stick. I should have the new reports up Thursday or Friday.
     
  28. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    This is stretching my understanding somewhat too. Shouldnt make a difference to the speed of the individual sticks. My understanding of dual channel is that it allows you to read and write to the two sticks simultainiously. ie you have 2 sticks at 400MHz both being written to at the same time so your overall memory speed doubles. In the case below the individual sticks appear to be only running at 200MHz. My theory with regard to removing the 256MB stick was that may only be a 200MHz stick. Mixing sticks with different speeds is not a good idea and can cause a system to fail, although it should be noted that some boards will work fine but they ony run at the speed of the speed of the slowest stick.

    The changes that actually occured were changes to the CPU multiplier. Which at first I though was completely unrelated. This next bit may be a little confusing as I had to do a bit of googling to understand how the memory deviders work in K8 Architechture. Here goes...

    CPU speed = core clock*CPU multiplier
    Memory bus speed = CPU Speed/Memory divider
    Memory Divider =CPU Multiplier/RAM Divider

    I have marked the source elements that you "may" be able to change in the BIOS in Red. When I refer to Core Clock I am talking about the AMD equivelent of an FSB. FSB does not exist on K8 and later architechture.

    I suspect that you have an old BIOS version which has the memory bus limited to 200MHz. I think that the 256MB stick runs at 200MHz so by pulling it the BIOS has detected the new ram and automatically changed the RAM divider. In order to keep the memory speed under 200MHz the CPU multipler has to be dropped. This is reducing your CPU speed by almost half.

    I would recomend that you have a look to see if you can find an updated BIOS which may up the max memory bus and resolve the problem.
     
  29. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I'll have to email customer support at Biostar to ask them about an update. Through their website, I'm referred to the same 3rd party software scan that I saw before: "DriverAgent"
     
  30. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Could the disparity in size between the two modules cause an issue? Not sure how much trouble a 256MB to a 1GB jump between slots may now be causing. Of course, if there is an issue, it will be remedied soon, but I was just curious.

    Thanks again.
     
  31. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    No not really. It is better to have matched pairs but speed and CAS are more important to be matched

    What BIOS and version are you running. Note when booting you can press the pause key on your keyboard to feeze the boot process so you can write stuff like your BIOS version down.
     
  32. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    I'm not at my desktop, but this info is included in the attachments above:

    DMI BIOS
    vendor Phoenix Technologies, LTD
    version 6.00 PG
    date 07/26/2005
     
  33. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

  34. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    BIOS Agent seems to be legit. Give that a go and try to flash your BIOS. Read through all the instructions before though coz flashing a BIOS is about the only thing that you can get wrong and irreversably screw up your PC
     
  35. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Great.

    I just read some horrid reviews of it @ CNET. I noticed the Biostar link has directions for the update. I'm a dolt...

    Looks like I'll try that first. At least they have an option for backing up the current BIOS.
     
  36. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Here's the updated CPU-Z report after the new RAM and PSU. The computer did freeze again, but I haven't updated the BIOS just yet.

    That's coming next.
     
  37. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Can't get the BIOS update to work correctly. I'm running memtest86+ right now, then I'll try the BIOS update in safe mode.
     
  38. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    you didnt upload the cpuz attachment. Im not sure I can help with the BIOS update. normally when you flash it, it will update on reboot as you cant change it once the pc is booted up
     
  39. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Aye carumba! Sorry about that. It's there, now.

    No worries. It didn't work in Safe Mode, either. I sent another email to Biostar.
     

    Attached Files:

  40. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    There is nothing in that update report.
     
  41. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    OK HOLD ON AND STOP EVERYTHING

    You are trying to flash your mb with a BIOS for another board.

    I had been a bit confused as to where Biostar came in. but I have just realised the link you posed below is for a Biostar K8M-800-M7A. This is a completely different Motherboard. Your MB is here. But there arent any Bios updates on there. Your BIOS is made by Poenix so you are better emailing them. As far as updating goes you should be using BIOS Agent Plus from here

    All K8M-800 means is that they use the same Via Chipset. The boards are totaly different.
     
  42. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Well, glad I avoided THAT! I'll have to wait a couple weeks to get that software - I'm all tapped out at the moment. When I get home tonight, I'll check that attachment. I read the document before I atta hed it.
     
  43. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    It's odd the last on was 50+MB of blank space. rolleyes

    Try this Update Report.
     

    Attached Files:

  44. Tueur

    Tueur Sergeant Major

    There is too much data that doesnt make sense here. CPUz reports that you have the K8M-400 Chipset which means that you dont have the board that you think you do. Can you attach a full speccy log please.

    Either you dont have the hardware that you think you have maybe your MB is on its way out and the diagnostics cant report properly.

    I would probably return the PSU you bought as I dont think that is the problem.

    Im away for Chrismas so may not be back on for a while
     
  45. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Attached. (I hope... ;) ) Thanks for your help and Merry Christmas!
     

    Attached Files:

  46. mapache

    mapache Private E-2

    Problem solved.

    'How?' you might ask?

    Uninstall Windows 7 and revert back to XP. There's a restore partition that'll allow me to go back to Day 1 with XP. I get money next month for my student loans, so I'll buy a top-of-the-line desktop then. All the stuff I bought to upgrade is about to hit eBay.
     

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