home theater & gaming display

We dont have a home theater forum so I put this here. The day I have been waiting for has finally come! After 2 years of dumping an extra $100 a month into my federal taxes(forced savings account), I will soon have $4000 drop on the ultimate home theater/gaming display.

For the last couple months I have immersed myself in researching lcd vs. plasma vs. projectors. I have come to the conclusion that for home theater use, a DLP projector is the way to go(considering I can drop $3k on it). The problem lies here: It seems to good to be true that I can play the graphics intensive PC games that I love so much on a 90 inch screen. It doesnt matter how good Star Wars episode III looks if Rome: Total War looks like crap. I have been completely unable to find feedback from someone who has used a high-end projector as a display for his/her gaming rig. I cant drop $4k without knowing 100% that I will be happy with the way PC games look.

I am not planning on watching sitcom television or surfing the net using such a huge display. Obviously I hook up my CRT monitor for stuff like that. I am really just hoping that someone with experience using a projector for gaming will respond to this thread. Sorry if this type of thread does not belong here. MajorGeeks is the only place I go for help with tech projects.

Thx in advance

 

I used to work at $hitBuy (errr i mean Best Buy in home theatre -Canadian spelling of theater) and my suggestion to you is, go to the store and ask them to hook up the game for you on one of their DLP TV's.
Since you're interested in buying a TV let them know (obviously don't let them know if it's not from them, lol).
I don't think it'll be as crisp and as realistic as you look, lots of things come into this. Video card being the main problem.
It'll be cool to play on a big TV, but, again, at that size, don't think it'll be as great as you think it'll be.
Also a big factor will be how far back you'll be sitting from the computer.
If you'll be within 6-8ft or less, you probably won't like it.
Anything further away, you may.
DLP? why the DLP btw?
You realize it's got a few moving parts in it right? Colored wheel for one, which spins pretty damn fast, but in turn, your eyes never see all colors at one time, which you think you do. Each color goes in front of the light source and since it is spinning at dizzying rates, your eyes/mind take the color information being thrown in front of it and form the colors for you.
Apparently, watching the DLP for a long period of time leads to a person getting tired who's watching it. Because your mind is constantly working, putting all the colors that are being thrown at it, together.
LCD projection isn't a bad option actually.
Don't get fooled by the hype of HDTV either, not EVERY channel will come through at 480i or 720p.
They (managers) wanted us to push that and sucker people into buying it for those reasons. Hence I quit (eventually)...hate lying

 

The other thing I wanted to add is, Texas Instrument created the DLP.
Why is it an issue?
Because for anyone to have the DLP sticker & technology in their unit(s), they have to pay TI a fee (royalty type thing) for use of it.
Guess who pays for that fee?
So why not just avoid that, and with the coin saved from the embedded royalty fee for TI, spend a little extra on an LCD projector (no moving parts as well)
Good luck

 

Thx Jak3y. You have been a big help. I read that DLP is better for movie/hdtv. I have more options buying an LCD, seeing as DLP cost more.

I was planning on 60" wide screen and watching from 9-12 feet away. The projector itself will be about 14' away. I was thinking since I am using such a small screen (for a projector) that the quality would be great. What would be the problem with my video card?? The reason I am going high-end for this was originally to do my video card justice. Assuming I can find a projector with DVI input, and used a dvi cable to connect it to the pc, do u think it would look bad?

I could watch movies on big screen tube style tv for way less money. If I wont like the video quality from my pc then I have no reason to do this. Do you think my money would be better spent on a lcd flatscreen/plasma tv when considering how pc graphics look? Im gonna have to find some projectors instore to check em out b4 I buy. Does best buy actually have displays home theator projectors? You think best buy will let me hook up my pc to thier projector to run Rome:Total War?? LOL

Thx again
btw here are a couple projectors I was looking at:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic_Home-PT-AE900U.htm

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLV-Z4.htm

I keep seeing these pretty cheap on ebay.

 

Digital light processing (DLP) is cheaper then LCDs, because DLP tech is ussually found in Projector monitors. Basically merging older tech with new tech making new affordable new technology. I personally wouldn't recommend full HDTV projectors, since the "idle" conditions in which they need to be shown in rarely occur; plus they're rather bit ugly, even when using HDPs.

I think you should be looking for the next big thing HDMI. I currently own the 50" phillips ambi-light plasma, its really beatifull when you have dvi(blue green outputs) and/or HDMI inputs(looks like a USB); looking at a channel through analong is pretty friggen ugly though pixelation galore, and not ALL hdtv programming is equal; some HDTV programming is only scaled one step up some two, some maximum, so quality differs(480i/720i/1080p). Also if a movie is shot on Hi-Def video (some new movies are, ie war of the worlds, Batman Begins) the quality will be amazingly different compared to standard definition movies that are shrunk/stretched to fit "hdtv" resolutions.

Because of technology and prices, LCDs are much more expensive then plasmas, at my size the prices diffrence (for the new ones) are of about 1,000$-1,500$.

This big bad boy is setup in my bedroom (I swear I can govern a small country with all the technology in here) so my viewing distance is between 4-10ft at any given time. I wish I had choosen something more erm...smaller (they looked small @ the store!). I need you to pay attention at the following lines --- THEY ALL CREATE A TON OF FRIGGEN HEAT! ---[projectors/large lcd n plasma tvs] to have an idea, I turn it on to warm up my bedroom during the cold season (currently going on now),room size is about 15ft x 15ft.

During the summerish times, Im unable to turn on the tv without my 8000btu a/c turned on, so please please please be sure yo have the space, and proper air circulation/ventilation etc..

Also consider investing in an HDMI dvd player they allow scaling of video up to the maximum supported resolution by the monitor[read box contents be sure it INCLUDES the actual HDMI cable, very expensive], which makes the picture incredible! IF you buy a wall mounting kit for an LCD/Plasma, be sure the weight is supported and your double mounting them on thick studs.

My setup including tv mount and dvd player cost me about 3700$

Before I forget, my Asus N7800GT brought an S-video -> DVI (green/blue)/S-video out/ VGA (red/yellow/white) converter with a 15" extention which I think is great. Your able to buy these online too.

 

Hmmm, I didn't find that to be the case. I am using a 55in Sony Grand Wega w/ 3LCD. It cost considerably less than a Plasma its size. I paid ~2800 for it.

 

Isnt 3LCD technology found in a projector LCDs? I mean to say that flat panel LCDs are more expensive then plasmas. Yes projector LCDs are cheaper then flats, but they are considerably more bulky and harder to accomodate in certain tighter spaces. I was trying to get alot of edit in but I got locked out after a couple of edits, didn't finish as well as I wanted.

 

I see.

 

I'll also add, that HDMI is high def multimedia interface, which basically means not just picture but sound is also in "high def" too, most new tvs have 1 input, if your going for the goal look for a tv with TWO HDMI inputs. Also i meant 480/720p/1080i and not 480i/720i/1080p and the reason flat LCDs are more expensive over plasma is because picture quality is an inch better so to say.

(hopefully thats the last edit)

 

National, no problem.
Msg me in private if you have any more questions to ask, I don't mind helping out.
I'm fairly confident with the stuff and still have friends that work in the home theater/theatre departments, so I can still get a pulse as to what's what, because they still make them go to seminars regarding the newer technologies and products.

 

I beg to differ on this one, that's like saying, Blaupunkt is a better stereo because it's found in a Porsche?
Not so...i can think of a ton of car stereo's much better than Blaupunkt.

Hey i got a 50" Toshiba non -lcd or dlp- projection tv, in the right room with the right atmoshpere for a lot cheaper than your plasma...and people that come over love it...flipped the coin on some great 5 channel Infinity satellite speaker (50% off staff discount, since we're all bragging) and a nice new discounted Pioneer receiver...talk about entertainment.
Btw the TV i have, is far from ugly, but we have the space

HDMI isn't in full force yet and won't be for awhile.
It's a great catchy technology to slap on the units and say "HEY, get the greatest, latest newest thing on the market..."
But the consumer pays for it, and guess what?
Not everything is HDMI compatible...yet.

quote from emedialive.com article
"Many people are awaiting HDMI with bated breath. "As digital media forms a bigger piece of the consumer entertainment experience, many users are overwhelmed by the complexity of interconnecting all the pieces," said Steve Kleynhans, vice president of the META Group, in December when the spec was finalized. "HDMI, as an industry standard, will provide some measure of relief while providing the quality users have come to demand, encouraging the adoption of new types of digital entertainment." The move from DVI to HDMI should start next year, but even though content providers love it, it won't be an instant success. Manufacturers have just finished investing a lot of money in designing DVI into their products, and therefore, "They will not be in that big of a rush" to adopt HDMI, says O'Rourke. They'll want to capitalize on the DVI investments before moving forward."

So, HDMI while nice, still won't be the normal for a couple of years easily, then prices will drop

Because of technology and prices, LCDs are much more expensive then plasmas, at my size the prices diffrence (for the new ones) are of about 1,000$-1,500$.

Have you ever touched the back or front of your plasma?
Wanna talk about heat? hehe...

Again see article above about HDMI.
In a few years, you'll have more than one input/output available for HDMI.
Why pay for only one silly setup, when you can get a few in a few years at a much better price?
Why not get something decent now that was the "hot thing" a year or so ago, rather than pay through the roof now, when in 2years it'll be cheaper?
Keeping up with the Jone's can be expensive

 

btw national, if you got $4K to drop, you can REALLY get a sweet setup done, with a projector, sound system and receiver.
Whatever you do, do NOT buy monster cables.
Get a decent competing brand for half the price.
Monster cables are packaged beautifully, and are "good looking cables" as one customer i tried to sell it to, but they're WAY over-priced.
Best Buy employees get Monster Cable for half price, so that should tell you something about mark up
I bought Accoustic Research cables and have done the job at half the price.
Just don't get dollar store cables.

 

I faail to see the relevance of this comment about investing in an HDMI DVD player. Toshiba makes a decent one for 79 bucks, and it includes the HDMI cable. So its not exactly expensive. The picture quality is superb as well.

I'll admit, I got the LG, due to Cricket City selling my Toshiba, that I already paid for

However, I got an LG upscale player for the same price. They had to knock off 75 bucks of it. It took a firmware update and region hack to get it where it is now, but I tell you what, the quality is absolutely amazing.

 

My bad, I meant to say *DLP projectors are cheaper then FLAT LCDs*.

I didnt say LCD/PLD projection tvs are ugly, I have 3 of them sitting in my house, always loved them but theyre very bulky/take up alot of space (think i re-iterated that though).

I agree, but I have a compulsive addiction to buy new stuff, Im brain washed. Reason though that I rather spend twice as much now then in two years and get something cheaper now is that well, im bascially will be spending about the same amount money, and I have a tuff time fighting over "you keep buying new crap all the time!" arguement; so I rather take a big hit once then alot of small ones all the time.

I've corded the tv off and put a "Must wear fire protection beyond this point" on it. HAS to be over 100deg near it.

 

If you don't have an HDMI "ready"/capable" tv, then it's pointless having one for the moment.
I mean, don't go knocking yourself over which HDMI capable DVD player you should get or which one has that ability.
Most have at LEAST one at the moment. Fine, no biggie.
But if National Acrobat already has a DVD player, just telling him, save the coin on a DVD player for now, and wait it out.
No rush. Just like the blue ray discs and other formats that are coming out.
I have well over 400 movies on DVDs.
I definitely don't plan on buying blue ray discs, just so I can put more than one movie on a disc.
It would be moot, to do so.

 

What I want to know is where some of you guys get the money from?

 

Wouldn't you like to know

 

Well ya, he did ask
Me, it was more my Aunt that paid for her stuff, that came with some insane discounts for the employees at $h*T Buy.
The only thing that's good about that store, otherwise rip off central.

 

HDMI pretty much covers my dvr input. I need to connect my pc. My video card came with a dvi out and a vga-dvi converter. Most of the displays (projectors) I have looked at have HDMI and PC input (which looks like vga to me). Does this mean the convert will down-convert the output from my video card resulting in my games looking like crap? Furthermore, would I be asking to much of my video card (radeon 9800 pro 128mb)to expect it to look good on an LCD projector at 60"?

For the record, I have saved the money by overpaying my federal income tax for the last couple years. Otherwise I would have spent it prematurely.

 

From what I know, you would be pushing it with that video card, I have the one below it 9600.
Your video will only look as good as your weakest input/output.
In this case, DVI. Which really isn't bad.
Does your card support DVI?
Not sure of the specs, I'll check it out now.
9800XT right?

 

9800pro has 1dvi and 1 vga inputs I believe.

 

yep,

 

Right. The question is whether or not I need a dvi input on the tv. Most of the projectors I have looked at only have vga input.(they have HDMI also) Does this mean I would have lower quality than dvi? (It confuses me because pc monitors use vga and they tend to look great)

The main reason I was considering a projector over an lcd monitor is the price. 46" lcd flatscreen monitors are >$5k. I was hoping I could get similar video quality with a $3k projector at 60" or so. Everything I read about projectors indicated that this can be achieved.

Firstly, I need to decide between projector/lcd hdtv/lcd monitor/plasma hdtv. I definately plan to mount the screen to the wall either way. I am starting to get the feeling that there is no such thing as a tv that can display pc games as well as a normal pc monitor, but at larger screen sizes (50" minimum).

So, if there is no way to get pc games looking good at 50"+ for $3k, I need to know so I can change my plan. I was going to rebuild my pc into a media case and move it into my living room to hook up to the new display.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I am learning alot about video and I will continue to research this until I feel comfortable with dropping so much cash on a display.

btw You guys mentioned hdmi dvd players. I was planning on using the dvd player in my pc. Can your tv not up-convert your dvds to HD assuming you are using HDMI?

 

Yes, DVI allows for higher step ups in resolution (hdtv).

Its not that you can't, its just that a project requires very dark settings most of the times, with any light source around the projector or screen images lose focus / brightness / colors.

I agree that there is no screen by those sizes that can play games just as good, the smaller the screen the better it is in terms of technological advancedments, because thats where the market is.

HDMI is just the interface it uses to communicate through to the TV, if the DVD is HD, and the player isn't (i think) it will scale down.

 

Keep in mind that projectors have specialised requirements and uses.

You need a very dark room for the best picture, and a reflective wall (you can buy special paint) or you have to buy a screen.

You also have the cost of replacement bulbs after a certain number of hours, and they are fairly expensive.

If that doesn't bother you, then it's a cheap way of getting a huge screen, compared to other technologies.

 

I am gonna have to see one of these lcd projectors in action. You are saying that flipping the lights on will render the screen near unwatchable? I know you take a hit with ambient light, but I am not sure how big of a hit. Would you say that I would need complete darkness in order for a projector to look as good as a lcd monitor hdtv of the same size?

I looked at flat screen lcd tvs/monitors last night and I still have some questions about em. I hear plasma has a short life span and hooking up to a pc is risky because of burn-in. Does the same apply to flat screen lcd??

I find it strange that all the flat panel lcd screens I look at have very low contrast compared to similarly priced projectors.

 

Quote "You are saying that flipping the lights on will render the screen near unwatchable?"

Not unwatchable, but nowhere near as good.

As fat as LCD's, they have issues with dead pixels and viewing angles.

Every technology has it's good and bad points, you just have to assess which best meets your needs.

 

LCDs don't have burn in issues, nor do projector TVs with LCD chips in them.

Plasma screens do, unfortunately.

 

Wait, are we talking about Projector TVs, such as the 3LCD Sony Grand Wega?

Or are we talking about wall projectors?

 

I don't know what others are talking about, but I mean Projectors, as in Home Theatre Projectors, Multimedia Projectors, DLT Projectors etc.

I assumed it was fairly obvious as I was talking about the replacement cost of bulbs, importance of a dark room, and the requirement of a screen or wall.

The original post stated "For the last couple months I have immersed myself in researching lcd vs. plasma vs. projectors"

That was 28 posts ago though, so the topic may have changed since.

 

Nah, they are talking about actual TVs. Incidently, its not entirely obvious when you talked about replacing bulbs, because I assume my TV is not alone in having a lamp that burns out over time, needing replacement. The other things you mention ed are what caught my attention, realizing we werent talking about the same thing.



http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...CategoryName=tv_TVDepartmentAccessories_Lamps

A 200 dollar maintenance item. Good grief.

 

Yeah, that's why I said that I thought it was fairly obvious. (not just the bulbs, but everything else I said in context)

I've read the thread again, and I still come away thinking Projectors.

Anyway, sorry if I misinformed anyone, that wasn't my intent, and as this isn't my expertise, I'll leave it to others.

 

Burn in can happen to any type of tv. My old standard tv had ghosting, my projector tv (cost me bout 1grand two years ago) burned in the fawking Cartoon network sign and USA sign into it. I think some discretion should be used when using high end equipment, ie I put a timer on it to turn off 15minutes from the time i start feeling sleepy, or I dont leave it on when im away from my room, etc etc...

 

Yes we were talking about home theater projectors like this:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

That is really what I want to do but I cant find any with HDMI and DVI inputs. I need dvi for my video card connection and HDMI for my cable box.

I have found that planning a purchase of a high end display is pretty confusing and stressful. Prices are all over the place even for TVs that are very similar spec-wise. The specs themselves are quite unreliable considering that manufacturers just seem to list whatever specs they feel like and this is when comparing the same type of display. Comparing an lcd flatscreen HDTV to a projector in the same price range yields no compelling results. For example the projectors I have looked at have some 5000:1 to 7000:1 contrast ratio whereas lcd TVs have like 800:1 to 2000:1. They use different units of light measurement (brightness) also. I see the same resolution in 20" screens as I do in 55" screens. I am gonna bring my laptop into Best Buy tomorrow and see if they will let me run 3Dmark5 on thier sets.

I have this feeling that I would be happiest with a projector and 2 screens. A 90" for watching movies and a 60" for gaming. I really need to know how much its gonna hurt me to run my games through vga. But in addition to the lack of DVI input, I have to find a way to hook up my DVR and PC to a ceiling mounted unit. My cable comes in where the screen has to be and I hear if you have 20' of cable between your outlet and the box, it will reduce performance. There is nowhere to put them anyway since the couch is directly below where the projector will be.

Strange that Sony offers its 55" lcd for the same price as many 40" screens with similar specs. Someone mentioned they had that and love it.

I have been unable to find a good guide to video (especially with regards to big screen PC gaming). Maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

I am very grateful for the help I have gotten here. I expected to get like 2 replies to this post. Sorry about all my huge posts and keep the advice coming.

 

Any light, in a room made for projectors will not be good.
Think of a theater/theatre, it's dark right?
Ever have any kind of ambient light come into it?
No.
Why? Because it'll ruin the experience.
If you plan on watching movies solely on this bad boy, great.
Computing, gaming, etc, will not be the greatest then (if you plan on having lights on our curtains/blinds drawn).
Sounds like you want it all-in-one type deal, with the best quality out of it.
But it won't happen in the wrong atmosphere.
Good luck, hehe.
Just really think about what you plan on doing with this setup

 

Yea I reconsidered on the projector mainly because there is no good way to hook up my pc. What do you think of this:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...eo&CategoryName=tv_hdtv_projectiontv_42"to51"

I am seriously considering buying this one. It has 2 HDMI inputs.

 

Rear Projector = fatish. But I like anything sony wega.

 

I have a 55in Grand Wega.

They are very nice. Although, the internal fans are kind of loud.

 

Whatever you do, DO NOT buy any warranty or extended warranty.
I used to work at $h*t Buy, trust me.
Just buy it on a credit card, they'll match the original manufacturers warranty up to a year.
So basically you'll get two years, first with the manufacturer, then with the credit card.
Warranties are pure profit for stores and a rip off to the customer.

 

Agreed, buying extended warrenty = commisions sale, absolute BS.

 

I got an extended warranty, it wasn't that expensive. Besides, I have no interest, and I will have it paid off before interest is accrued.

 

craptastic city gave me 0% apr for 12months too, already have about 1/3rd paid in 3 months so im doing good. When it came to warrenty they wanted to charge me near 300$, laughed at the dude.

 

How does that work?

You don't get an extended warranty through any CC because you are using their credit line. As well, the first break is gonna cost more than 300. Is it likely? Probably not. Of course, I had Best Buy give me a brand new computer after breaking mine when I brought it in for warranty work. So I daresay I've taken Best Buy for more than their warranties have ever cost me

As well, I've bought PDAs through Best Buy and the extended warranty came in handy, twice.

 

How does warrenty charge work? they charge you a flat rate fee based on what the price of the item costs, really crappy ideaology IMO.

 

To each their own I suppose. But if you pay 300 bucks, and it costs, say, 600 (parts and labor) to fix it...

I think you get the idea

I'm an unlucky person. I use warranties all the time.

 

Before you speak, MAYYYBE you should call your credit card company and ask them..."Hey, is it true that if I make a purchase through my credit card th an item, you guys will match the warranty for up to one year?"
Now, apparently, SOME types of credit cards within the company, may not do this.
But I'm willing to bet 85% in favor of a yes they do.
Check it out.
Gotta give me the benefit of the doubt here, I worked at that overpriced place that sells junk

 

Before you speak, MAYYYBE you should call your credit card company and ask them..."Hey, is it true that if I make a purchase with through my credit card with an item, you guys will match the warranty for up to one year?"
Now, apparently, SOME types of credit cards within the company, may not do this.
But I'm willing to bet 85% in favor of a yes they do.
Check it out.
Gotta give me the benefit of the doubt here, I worked at that overpriced place that sells junk

 

Apparently you didn't misread what I said. If you go with say, Circuit City, and use their line of credit, it isn't a credit card.

Before I speak?

I don't take kindly to belittling, and neither does anyone else. I encourage being corrected, but don't talk down to me.

 

I never said, using their credit line. You did.

CC and credit line are two very things, hence they're distinguishable in name, correct?
By credit card, I mean, Visa, Mastercard, Amex and the other major guys.
Wasn't belittling, or being facetious, just taken then wrong way.
Have a Merry Christmas

 

Then your reply was irrelevant to me.

My reply was to Omegamerc, who used a line of credit at Cricket City (CC standing for Circuit City).

Thats why I asked about how that worked for extended warranty, yada, yada.

If you weren't talking down to me, you might want to evaluate how you post. It has an inflammatory manner.