Troubleshooting ONE (1) Connection on a Network

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by grc123, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    3 PC Home Network - 1 = XP desktop hardwired to our ISP modem and a Belkin N Wireless Router, 2 = Vista machine connected wirelessly by a Belkin N Network Adapter, 3 = WIN7 Laptop (notebook/netbook?) with a built-in Adapter.

    Been running this set-up for over a year, with the OS of the hardwired machine (XP) being "broken", but still serving as the base of the network.

    Couple nights ago we lost our internet connection..I immediately called our ISP, and the tech restored the connection - to my laptop, and I looked no further.

    Realized the next morning the Vista machine was still not connecting, fiddled with things a bit, then called the ISP again.

    I was taken through some steps, which ultimately resulted in the tech saying; "oh...I will have to refer you to Belkin at this point".

    The laptop is still working perfectly well...I am typing on it and will send this inquiry to this forum on it.

    But the Vista desktop is down...shows that it's receiving a "STRONG Signal", but will not connect to. Continues to request a Network Key/Passphrase, and I continue to enter the one I have had for several years - to no avail.

    Sounds like an Adapter (Dongle) problem, no?
     
  2. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    *UPDATE* Please disregard my previous inquiry here now (though I have another, semi-related issue, which I may need to start another thread for)..

    THX!
     
  3. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    If I get this correct, you are doing ICS through the XP machine, even though you have a router. Get the router in the first link of the network, which means the Router is what shares the connection to all machines, not using a desktop in its place. That would be your problem, not the network.
     
  4. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Thanks for the reply, but I am not sure I would have been able to follow your instruction on my own (not via the internet), however, since the ISP techs showed-up (and have left), things have changed, and the problem is reversed (I think it is because after they had things running correctly, I needed to unplug (disconnect power) of the modem, the router, and the desktop PC, as I needed to move things around (surge protectors, etc.).

    1. The XP machine has been eliminated from the equation..I am now only dealing with two machines..one Vista hardwired to the router and modem (which I am typing on now, and will send this message from), and the WIN7 laptop which is "TRYING" to connect (unsuccessfully).

    I am completely lost with this stuff anymore . . . . :confused :confused :confused
     
  5. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    It does not matter what machines you are dealing with. To properly network everything, you have the modem from the ISP, and a router. From the router, if you have more than four machines, you add in a switch, or use WiFi for those that may travel around the house or out of it.

    As long as the router is setup to receive a Dynamic DHCP from the ISP provided modem, and the various computers are setup to receive a dynamic DHCP from said router, and you are not using third party firewall software, you should have no problems.

    Problems arise when you start changing around the convention of networking, without knowing how networks work, or you find something that someone did, without all of the info needed, then you have problems.

    Regardless what the ISP techs did, if they corrected your mistake at their dime, and only charged you for a service call to check out their equipment, then move on, leave it how they set it up and go on.

    As for the surge protectors, if you plugged in the coax from the CATV company, or ethernet cables if the surge protectors have RJ-45 femaies, you can cause problems.

    I have been playing with networks hardcore for over the past 22+ years, computers over 35+ years. Trust me, when it comes from someone that says problems happen when you do stuff unconventional, and I have seen it happen first hand, and fixed a lot of stuff on my dime, either from afar or on premise, I can see that I have seen it all.
     
  6. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    The modem (DSL) is hardwired to the router (Belkin N Wireless), and the router is hardwired to the desktop - no problem so far (the desktop works...connects to the internet - I'm typing/sending this message from it).

    The problem is that the laptop will not connect, and continues to tell me that the Wireless Adapter (also a Belkin N) needs to be "reset".

    I have no clue how to "Reset" it...I have disconnected it, reconnected it, and now just spent 30 minutes on the phone with my ISP tech support, to no avail...?

    Of course the ISP tech doesn't want to (won't or can't by company policy) look too deeply into MY router/adapter problem.

    PS - this router/adapter combination have been working well together for 2 or 3 years now..and were both working perfectly well earlier today - just a couple/few hours ago.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  7. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    *ran-out of time on this edit*

    The problem came after I unplugged/disconnected power cords to move the machine/surge protector/etc.
     
  8. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    You reset the wireless connection in the laptop, by shutting the computer down. Best thing to do, is shut down all computers, including the router & modem, then reboot in the following order: Modem, let it sync with ISP. Then Router, let it sync with modem. Then turn on one computer at a time. That would mean get the one you have had problems with first.

    If it was my guess, I would say that the driver needs to be uninstalled, and then the one from the computer manufacturer needs to be loaded, not the one from Microsoft. Of course, it is a known fact, that Firewall software that is not the Windows firewall causes problems with network adapters.

    Unless the computer goes off of your home network, the firewall can stay turned off on all of the machines. Now also, if it was me, Belkin would be the last equipment manufacturer that I would use for networking. Try another router and see what happens. The Zyxel ones are good, and there are a couple of others. But of course, if your outside connection is DSL, that means that at the most, it would only be 12mb, so having N will only work if you are moving large data files around your network. Otherwise, G will do fine.
     
  9. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Both machines are using Windows Firewalls (Vista and 7).

    The ISP tech took me through the power-down sequence just as you laid it out (power-down both machines, disconnect power cord from modem, then power cord from router, then power back up as you said - modem, then router, then machines).

    As far as the Belkin equipment - it's all I got, and all I can afford for now...I asked around here (Majorgeeks) quite a bit two-three years ago, and the consensus seemed to be that, though there are better quality routers available, the Belkin was "ok" for what I needed, and since I already had bought the Belkin router, it was more important to "match" it with the same manufacturers Adapter. Again, they've performed very well for several years.

    I am really "stuck" here now...Windows 7 prompted me to run an ethernet wire from the router to the laptop which I just tried - again to no avail... I am really stuck here..no clue what else to do. I'm back to living primarily in a very rural location...a full hour (and over four mountains) from any sort of physical, tech support person.

    OH..I just re-read your post and see you mentioned "Drivers" ... that scares the living crap outta me...but seems I've got nothin' to lose now....
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  10. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    I really appreciate your help, but I have to crash for the night...I'm on east coast time and have an early appointment in the morning..thanks, and hopefully you or someone here can assist me to get this straight tomorrow -

    thanks again,
    glenn
     
  11. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    When you uninstall the driver for the NIC's, you just go to device manager, find the NIC, then uninstall. Reboot, and Windows should load the default driver. This will not wipe out remembered stuff in the registry. That would take some extra effort to scrub that stuff out.

    Also, try swapping ethernet cables. If the machines are on the other side of the house, take them to where the router is, and connect. Before I forget, if you loaded any third party software that came with the router, on the machines, remove it.
     
  12. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek


    Thanks very much - I'm running out the door at the moment, but I plan to be all over this in a few/several hours (later today) . . . .
     
  13. handygal

    handygal First Sergeant

    Hey grc, I have a question for you. Is it asking you for a password to the wireless connection -- it has the name of the network and a space for the password? Or is it asking you for the login info for the Belkin router?

    I was helping a user here a few weeks ago and assumed it was a network password, turned out the connection was trying to open the router page and was asking for the router login.
     
  14. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Hey Handygal! No ma'am...it's showing the signal (strength) as "Excellent", and then "Windows was unable to connect to the network", then telling me to do the whole power-down thing, and repeatedly telling me it's a "wireless connectivity" and/or "adapter/access point problem". :confused
     
  15. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok..I'm ready to launch on the NIC driver uninstall..however, I "MUST" ask (so as not to assume ANYTHING) - - I will be uninstalling the 2nd one listed: "Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter", correct?

    And I want to leave the 1st one listed (which I think is my internal/built-in device?) "Atheros AR8152/8158 PCI-E Fast Ethernet Controller (NADIS 6.20), correct - please?

    I have to be sure before I move forward........
     
  16. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    One is for the wired ethernet, the other is for wifi. I would do them both, and let Windows find the defaults. But before you do, download the latest from the computer manufacturer website, and place their drivers for the wifi & wired on a USB keychain drive. When Windows wants to install drivers, tell it no, and install the ones you downloaded on the USB drive.

    And with Windows 7, if the machine is running, you can tell it how you want it to look for drivers, before you reboot, do that also. Do not let it auto install.
     
  17. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok thanks...I suppose I will just Google/Search: "Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter - latest drivers", and, "Atheros AR8152/8158 PCI-E Fast Ethernet Controller (NADIS 6.20) - latest drivers"?


    Finally, if by chance I can't find my little 4GB USB keychain drive, I can put them on an external hard drive, yes?
     
  18. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

  19. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    Not from that site. Again, get them from the computer manufacturer website.
     
  20. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Oh, well it's an Asus, so I will look there - thanks!
     
  21. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

  22. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

  23. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok, I have downloaded this (Atheros"?) from the link you sent, do I need to get the one for Broadcom (Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter" driver) from Asus also, please?

    PS - I took this screenshot to make sure I got the right one for the Atheros (there were two)..?
     

    Attached Files:

  24. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    You can use the autodetect, which is also on the asus site. http://driveragent.com/asus.php It will tell you what driver & what equipment on the system, if you have lost the specs.
     
  25. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Don't I wish... recall, the laptop in question here is not accessing the internet (and I tried an ethernet cable directly from the router). I only have this desktop to work from, and it's a Dell running Vista (the laptop is Asus running 7).
     
  26. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    You download the tool and then have to find the USB keychain to load it. Can you get it online if you set a static IP on that machine? Go and try the uninstall and let Windows load the default to see if that works.

    BTW, have you made sure that the wifi radio switch is not moved to off, if it has one?
     
  27. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok, I have this (screenshot) on an external, USB hard-drive (not a "USB keychain") - that doesn't matter, correct?

    I believe I can now take it from the external hard-drive, and "put it" (download it?) onto my laptop, and I understand how to uninstall and allow Windows to try their default (and if that won't work, I would attempt this Atheros file, correct?).

    I'm still not sure if I need to download drivers for "Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter", which is listed 2nd in Device Manager under Network Adapters?

    I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean by: "Can you get it online if you set a static IP on that machine"?

    PS - I realize I seem pretty ignorant here, I am just very concerned about making a major mistake here, by a simple misunderstanding or assumption...I literally cannot afford to take this laptop somewhere to be looked at/worked-on...I am on disability pay and barely staying afloat financially as it is...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  28. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Well I decided to live large, "grow a pair", and rolled some dice.

    Nothing.

    This (below) was my procedure:

    1. > Uninstalled (Atheros AR8152/8158 PCI-E Fast Ethernet Controller (NADIS 6.20) >

    2. > Scanned for Hardware Changes >

    3. > It reinstalled itself (WIN7 - Default) >

    4. > Unzipped (extracted) the files from the link you sent, and am still getting the same messages (need to 'Reset' my adapter, and "Investigate router or access point").

    Nothing...no difference, no change.

    *As an aside, when you mentioned earlier about your experience(s) over the many years you've been doing this:

    ("been playing with networks hardcore for over the past 22+ years, computers over 35+ years. Trust me, when it comes from someone that says problems happen when you do stuff unconventional, and I have seen it happen first hand, and fixed a lot of stuff on my dime, either from afar or on premise, I can see that I have seen it all".)
    I was/am *not* doubting you at all! I am a captive, willing audience, and only wish to get my laptop PC back online...that is it...that is all.

    I am not looking to do anything unconventional, I simply wish to get my laptop back online - and I don't know enough about all of this stuff to "guess", or "assume" anything.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  29. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    If the driver did not change it, and you have tried both wired & wireless on your home network, what happens if you take it elsewhere? Does it connect to wifi there? What happens if you just plug it into the modem? Does it pull a IP when connected just to the modem through a wired connection?
     
  30. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok, thanks...when you say "elsewhere", I think you mean such as a hotspot (coffee-shop, McDonald's, etc?) - ANSWER: Don't know, would have to drive about 30 miles (one way), but am willing to do that if I must.

    If I connect just to the modem through a wired connection, I will have to pull the cord/cable/ethernet wire out of the back of this desktop...is there anything I should know before I do that (in other words, is this one of those times when I may have to open command prompt, and type "ipconfig / something-or-other", please?)
     
  31. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    Shut down the modem, router, and any computers. Then unhook the router from the modem, and use that cord to connect to the laptop, to see if it will work.
     
  32. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Ok YES - that works! I am typing this on the laptop now....!?!
     
  33. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Just for the sake of clarity (screenshot) . . .
     

    Attached Files:

  34. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    We know that the wired connection works. Without unloading the driver for the wifi, you could do a hard reset of the router, and do not enable wireless security when you test the connection between the laptop & router for wifi.
     
  35. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Pretty sure you (and others) may find this humorous, but I am really not sure what you mean after the point at which you typed; "hard reset of the router..."?

    I understand (I think) that "hard reset" means push the reset button on the router, but am I supposed to put cables back the way they were before this last change (the direct-wire connection from the modem to the laptop test), or what, exactly, please?
     
  36. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Hello? Sorry if I said something wrong..I just didn't understand this part:

    ?
     
  37. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Just checking-back to see if there's any help still available here..? I thought we almost had this (my 8 month old laptop/wireless connect.) fixed..?
     
  38. brownizs

    brownizs MajorGeek

    I am at a loss at this point, due to every suggestion I gave, should have worked in one way or another. The router isn't a 5ghz model btw, or is a 2.4ghz Wireless N?
     
  39. grc123

    grc123 MajorGeek

    Having difficulty finding an exact answer to your question, but I am guessing it's a 2.4, in that I think this router is becoming a bit dated, and the manual shows this (screenshot)--->
     

    Attached Files:


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