Unidentified pest on my plant! Help, please

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Mimsy, May 26, 2009.

  1. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    I recently made a post in Cat's thread about a plant I thought was a lost cause but that miraculously recovered thanks to coffee grounds, and then I decided to make my own thread about the illness it now has. Hijacking the thread seemed rude. :)

    When I started caring for the poor thing it looked like it was long overdue for the garbage bin, especially since the roots were badly damaged when I found it (someone threw it out! :mad) A little over a month later the plant is alive and well and it looks much healthier, thanks to a steady diet of coffee grounds, water and sunlight, and some basic affectionate conversation. All dead leaves have been shed and it is growing new ones almost every time I turn around. When it has grown stronger I am going to repot it into fresh soil, maybe in a bigger pot, and let it flourish. I'm looking forward to it!

    Anyways. The poor thing has some sort of weird illness that I, I'm sad to say, have not been able to identify. I'm relatively new to caring for plants, and still learning, and it doesn't exactly make things easier that I for once have run head-first into a language barrier of armored concrete: I don't know the terminology in English. I will try to describe what's happened to it anyway.

    It looks like the leaves and the space between then is covered in very very fine spider web, except that no matter how I search, I can't find the spider. Also, the web structure isn't spiderish at all. I put the plant under a gentle shower to remove the webs, and though the plant really seemed to like showering, the fine webs came back about a day after. The plant also seems less happy and energetic than before, the leaves have darkened and the are a lot fewer new ones.

    Thoughts, anyone?
     
  2. Nellman

    Nellman Private E-2

    It would be nice to have a picture of the problem. I work with a master gardener off and on. I could show it to her
     
  3. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    My edit time expired. Apologies for the double post.

    After much online searching I managed to identify my orphan plant: It's a Codiaeum variegatum, the Petra variety. It likes misting, which explains why it liked the shower and why it likes being near the faucet in my kitchen. I also found a page about it that warned that this plant is vulnerable to spider mites. Could that be what it has? I can't find anything on them.

    I'll try to get a picture of what's happening to the poor plant. It's very hard to get the webs to show properly on photo, they're very thin.
     
  4. PapaDuke

    PapaDuke Master Sergeant

    After some searching of my own on your behalf, I found this site: Click!

    Maybe, it might help?
     
  5. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Oh, thanks Duke! I'm going over that site now, looking for clues. :)

    Nellman, I wasn't able to get a clear enough photo of my plant (my camera sucks), but when I googled for pictures of spider mites I found these webs. That looks exactly like the webs on my Petra.

    So far all I can find is that spider mites hate humidity, so I misted the plant a few times. Hopefully that helps. :)

    EDIT:
    Thanks to the link PapaDuke found, I am now 100% sure it is spider mites. That's a start at least. More misting!
     
  6. Nellman

    Nellman Private E-2

    very interesting plant. I kill all inside plants. I keep to all outside plants and seem to to well. I will check on the spider mite thing for you
     
  7. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Thanks! :)
     
  8. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    The spider mites are spreading! :eek The schefflera (sp?) in the same window has them too! Thankfully I only have two plants in that window, so I put them together next to each other to make misting them easier and then I checked the other four plants in the room. Thankfully the other four are fine. Phew!

    I'm now considering getting some sort of houseplant insecticide spray for the spider mites. The plants are in my kitchen, in the window right above the sink and in easy reach for a cat, so the spray must be absolutely and completely harmless to cats and humans. Suggestions?
     
  9. PapaDuke

    PapaDuke Master Sergeant

    Still searching for you! :wave

    1:1 solution of Rubbing alcohol and water is suggested here: Click!

    And many of the sites I'm seeing recommend using insecticide soap. Here's a homemade recipe for it: Click!

    Hope that helps!
     
  10. bigtrucks

    bigtrucks MajorGeek

    Hate those things . Them and white flies. EERRRG

    @mimsy Yes you have spider mites
    @Papaduke the anti bacteria dish soap (If you have it there get Dawn works wonders on spider mites)
    While working as a landscape asst. with the city our horticulture lady told me of this and she used it to kill moss in the smaller trees. Just make sure that even if you don't use soap to use cold water when you spritz them and make sure you spray under all the leaves real well. the mites don't like wet and they don't like cold. They are not BUGS as we think. They love warmth and dryness.So spray the whole plant every day. I don't know if you're a reader but it might help if you read about the pest to get a full understanding of what you are dealing with.Here's a pretty good sight about those pesky critters. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/insect/05507.html.Good luck and if that doesn't help give a yell.
     
  11. Nellman

    Nellman Private E-2

    Mimsy I talked to the master gardener. This is what she told me. Isolate the plant. It most likely picked up the mites when it was out in the trash. Wash the plant in warm soapy water. Submersing the plant is OK. The dish soap will not hurt the soil or the plant. After washing, Do not place the plant in full sun until it is dried. Putting the plant in full sun while wet could damage it. Similar to boiling it. Hope this helps.
     
  12. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Thank you all for the info! Just knowing what it is and what to do about it makes all the difference. :)

    I have isolated the two infected plants by putting them in the bathtub and showering them with cool water. I did my best to wash away all spider mites, and the plants are now drying in the bath tub before they get to go back to the sun. Far away from all other plants in that room of course. The spider mites will be contained!

    bigtrucks, that page you linked to is great! I am a big reader when it comes to these things (knowledge is power!), so I used your page as a starting point for research. I have learned several interesting things, among them that spider mites thrive in hot and dry climates, which is exactly what I live in. More interesting: A popular killer of spider mites is neem oil. I have TONS of neem oil! I use it to treat my eczema and I know for a fact it is harmless to ingest for both humans and cats.

    I have now put neem oil in the water in my plant mister and mixed it thoroughly by shaking it up. I will spray the plants with the neem oil mix and report back on progress. It's an organic pesticide so it will take a few days. If I see no progress at all, I will switch to the antibacterial dish soap.
     
  13. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Status update:
    When I came home from work tonight both plants were covered in spider mite webs again! Damn, those things work fast. :mad

    This time I decided that instead of being overly paranoid for the plants I would follow Nellman's friend's advice to the letter and wash them both very thoroughly in warm soapy water. I used the antibacterial dish soap (that way I can blame bigtrucks if it doesn't work! :-D) and once again washed the plants in the bathtub. I also let the soapy water go into the soil in both pots, since I'm concerned that some of the spider mites might till be hiding there.

    I will continue with the neem oil, since other organic pesticides I have used in the past have taken a couple of days before they showed visible effects and I don't want to write it off without giving it a fair chance.

    For now, I have learned that spider mites are not effectively killed just by being showered with cool water. There needs to be anti-bacterial dish soap as well.
     
  14. joey off the street

    joey off the street Lounge Lizard No.1

  15. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    When I was a Horticulture student (too many years ago) we were taught that rubbing alcohol on a q-tip was best.
    Time consuming and tedious, but very effective.
     
  16. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Washing the plants in soapy water seems to have worked... when I came home from work today there was no visible webbing on the plants. Yay! :celebrate

    I can still see traces of the pests everywhere, but my neem oil misting spray in combination with the soapy shower seems to be working for now. The Petra is even growing new leaves!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  17. seekingelf

    seekingelf Private E-2

    Heard years a go that diluted Ivory soap (water + small amount of the dish soap) works wonders for pests on plants. Great to hear more directly that someone used this idea and it helped.
     
  18. joey off the street

    joey off the street Lounge Lizard No.1

    Glad to hear it, Mimsy. Must come as a blessed relief for you to get rid of these pests. It's apparently so easy to get reinfested, too. Just blowing in with the wind is a problem.
    Hope you are clear of this problem. A good thing to come out of this is the fact that folk now know how to control spider mites. Fingers crossed.
     
  19. Cat_w_9_lives

    Cat_w_9_lives Major KittyCat

    Keep at those spider mites, they don't like wet, so spraying/washing is the best to keep them under control. They're very hard to get rid of but if you stay on top of them you finally win. It took me months to finally get rid of them on a Dracaena.
     
  20. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Well, it seems to have worked...I'm not going to do any final celebrations until thy spider mites have been gone for at least a week. You never know. It's looking promising though. :)

    Heh, Cat and I posted at the same time. LOL
     
  21. Nellman

    Nellman Private E-2

    Glad it seems to be working. I hope they stay away for good.
     
  22. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Me too! Thank your gardener friend for me, please. The soapy water really seems to have done the trick as far as removing the worst of the infestation. Misting with the neem oil mix really seems to be effective in preventing them from returning, so I will keep dong that for a week or so, to make sure. :)
     
  23. Nellman

    Nellman Private E-2

    Will Do
     
  24. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Spider mite update: Still no signs of the little pests returning. I keep misting the plants every day, and they are both growing new leaves! That makes me happy. All I have read about spider mites says that they sap the plants of energy and makes them lose their leaves, so seeing them grow bigger is a good sign.

    I have also used my Bookmooch account to get my hands on a copy of The Houseplant Survival Manual, since I'm new to this house plant thing and my grandmother has not been available for consultation for a few years now. The survival manual says the Petra needs LOTS of water and nutrients, so I'm feeding it coffee grounds when I water it every morning. So far, so good. :)
     
  25. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Lots of people talk to there plants too. People think they are crazy, but it really helps your plants.
    They take in carbon dioxide and give off oxygen. We take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide.
    Win-Win situation for you and your plants.
     
  26. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Oh, I talk to all my plants. They have names. The Petra is, of course Petra. The Schefflera is Angel, and the big crawling three (as yet unidentified) that sit on top my kitchen cabinets are Julius, Crassus, and Pompeius. The tree-like plant in the corner by the stairs is, naturally, named Fangorn.

    Yep, I'm weird. :)
     
  27. PapaDuke

    PapaDuke Master Sergeant


    Not any more than the rest of us! Especially me :p
     
  28. joey off the street

    joey off the street Lounge Lizard No.1

    Except at night. My grandad told me not to keep plants in the bedroom at night. Especially if you aren't well.

    Plants take in oxygen and put out carbon dioxide for 24 hours. However, in the presence of light plants photosynthesise and take CO2 and the net output is more O2. They take O2 for respiration at night and the net output is more CO2. Intake at night is more O2 and CO2 release is increased.
    Remember: more O2 released in light and more O2 consumed at night.
     
  29. bigtrucks

    bigtrucks MajorGeek

    Mimsy I'm so glad to here your plants are doing a lot better.:hyper I just picked up 2 Hibiscus from a woman's yard that I just did some work in and they weren't in the best of health, at least not the one:(. There were more dead branches then live(I don't think it was getting enough water). Set it at the beginning of my walkway and it has rained on it for a 3 days and looks alive now. How about some pics of that unknown plant? Maybe someone can identify it.

    @ JOTS I'm Impressed. You actually do use that brain of yours for the good.:p Just kidding. Actually not too many know about the plants good and not so good side when it comes to the air we share with them.
     
  30. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Sounds great, Mimsy, but may I ask, where do you get the "neem oil"? Is it called something else here in the states? That is the one part that puzzled me.... :confused I have a hibiscus in the house, and it bloomed all winter bigtrucks... Very cool... and pretty, too... Good luck with yours ;)
     
  31. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    bigtrucks, before I saw your post I went here to try and identify my big three plants. I browsed by photo, and discovered that two of them are Philodendron. I will try to get a good picture of the third, since I can't find it on that photo page.

    Sadly, one of the Philodendrons has died. It smelled like something rotten from it (very nasty), and there were big sponge-looking things growing in the soil! YUCK! On the principle of sacrificing one to save many, Pompeius was unceremoniously put in a garbage bag and set out with the garbage this morning. I feel bad for the poor guy, but at the same time, that just reeked. After that I inspected the pot Pompeius had lived in, and discovered that although it's supposed to drain when you water the plant in it, it doesn't in fact do that. That explained a lot. Now I feel even worse for drowning my poor plant. :(

    Lesson learned. Never again will I use that type of pot! It went in the garbage too.

    Great site to learn about neem oil: http://www.discoverneem.com/ (mentions using neem as insecticide)

    Great site to buy neem, reasonable prices and shipping: http://www.gardenofwisdom.com/catalog/item/3987807/3778793.htm
     
  32. Pete22

    Pete22 Private First Class

    When I had a plant with pests, I watered the plant really good so the dirt was heavy . Then I took my vacuum and opened a vent near the top so the suction wasn't too strong, and vacuumed the plant.

    Kinda funny, but it worked.

    Pete22
     
  33. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, thanks for the info... I am very interested in this, as I have Hoya plants, and lost one that was quite old a few years ago, but don't want to lose the rest.. I also have a Hibiscus right in between the two Hoyas.... Also, I started my flowers inside, and the potting soil had some disgusting little bugs in it, I would like to take care of..before they start feeding on my plants...

    So sorry to hear about "Pompeius", that must have been dreadful! :cry I have a few of them hanging around, along with spider plants too... The inside house-plant insecticide does peek my interest tho! Thank you again, :wave
     
  34. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Just a fair warning that although the neem seems to be very very effective, it is not a quick pesticide. I am still spraying the Petra and the schefflera with it every day, since I understand from all I've read both here and on other sites, that spider mites are extremely stubborn. Matter of fact, the Houseplant book I got with my Bookmooch account actually flat out says that once you see the webbing from the spider mites all over your plant it is a completely lost cause and the best thing you can do is burn it to keep it from spreading. Burn Petra!?!? :eek

    Never!

    I will mist her with my neem oil mix until Christmas before I do that. Fortunately for my Thanksgiving plans, the mites seem to be staying away... I will continue misting at least over next week to make sure. All the new leaves the Petra is growing practically everywhere must be a good sign.

    The cuttings I took from Pompeius before throwing him in the garbage are slowly growing roots in their water glass. I put a drop of MiracleGro in the water to help them out. :)

    I do like that the neem is completely harmless to ingest for people and pets, and that although it smells, it's not at all a strong or nasty smells once diluted with water.
     
  35. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, thanks for the info ;) I haven't seen any of the 'webbing' yet, so hopefully I can nip this in the bud before they have a chance to set up house.... I am sure they came in from a new plant I purchased, as I never seen anything before I bought an African Violet, and it seemed to have lots of little "jumpers".... Now, I know I can't get those leaves wet, but I don't want those little buggers on my other plants..... The A.V. has since been moved to isolation, and I just want to nip this in the bud.

    I not only isolated the AV, but re-potted it as well... New fresh AV soil seemed to do the trick, and discarded the old stuff..But she is still in isolation, JUST IN CASE..... Burn it? :crybaby Nah, she just needed some TLC, that is all! ;)

    Yes, we will have to see how this plays out..... Sounds like you have a good hold on yours tho... With the new growth and leaves, that is a very good sign ;) Congrats! :clap
     
  36. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    My mom has a ton of African Violets (Saint Paulia, she calls them) and she said the same thing--they cannot get their leaves wet. She used to clean their leaves with a big brush though, one of those big very soft ones that painters use for walls and fences. If you got one of those, you should be able to brush away a lot of the pests from it, and then you can put in the neem oil (if you got any) with the water you give the plant. Then the pests will eat the neem with they nibble on the violet, and it will have the same effect.

    I know, it's way slower, but it will probably be more gentle on the African Violet and hopefully get rid of the pests too.
     
  37. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hello again, Mimsy, that is a good idea, but their leaves are so fragile.. If they even get a drop of water on them, the leaf will die, so I will have to put the neem in with their watering... See how that does.. I have two window shelves of AV's, and this new one became quite the challenge :-o
    I am on it tho, I don't give up easy either :-D They are fun to grow, and when they bloom, they all bloom! Really does look pretty.....

    I also make new plants with leaf cuttings... that is very challenging, but I do manage to make a few! ;) The young ones seem to bloom so much nicer than the older plants... I don't know why that is, but they sure do.....

    Nice chatting with ya too! :wave
     
  38. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Putting in the neem with the watering is supposed to work really well, it just needs a little more time, according to all I've read.

    My mom uses a dry soft soft paint brush to brush things off her African Violet leaves all the time, she says as long as you are gentle and patient it won't hurt the plant, and apparently it helps keeping the pests from regaining a firm hold on it. Just make sure your hands are dry. ;)
     
  39. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    OK, that makes sense, I'll pick up one of those really soft artist brushes, and give it a whirl! ;) I have to go into town tomorrow, I will pick one up. Yes, I can be very gentle with my AV's, as they need love too! :-D

    thanks Mimsy for all the advice! ;)
     
  40. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Plants are people too! :clap

    I'll pass the thanks on to my mom since I'm still new at this plant thing. ;) Petra, Angel, Fangorn and the triumvirate were my first actual house plant efforts. The triumvirate is by the way now the Dynamic Duo, since Pompeius died from rot and spongy mold things. I have renamed them Bonnie and Clyde. :)
     
  41. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, I got a real nice soft brush today, and the neem oil right in town! WOW! I didn't even know it was there... ;) Now, I have a nice bottle of it, and put some in my spray bottle.. Let the little buggers TRY to take a hold of my plants! I got the big :guns waiting for them now! :-D

    And, I think "Bonnie and Clyde" is a fitting name for them too! ;)

    Have a wonderful day!
     
  42. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, I just want to make sure I got this recipe correct... Dawn dish soap, alcohol and a few drops of neem oil all mixed together, and spray? Sounds easy enough, as long as I have the correct mixture:confused

    thanks, and I am off to my 'creatures'! :-D
     
  43. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    That sounds about right. I have tried various versions of all three, with only two of them, and with only neem, and I can't tell the difference between which mix is the most effective. Right now I am using only neem and water, since that smells less than the other mixtures did, and is easier and quicker to mix. I'm lazy. ;)

    The important thing I discovered in my experimenting is to err on the side of caution, the misting mix shouldn't be too strong. Also, I'd recommend not watering with the soap or alcohol, just to be safe. That's what my new plant book says anyway... watering water should apparently be a pure as possible. I have defied the book by putting coffee grounds and neem oil in my watering water, and the Petra is growing new leaves so fast I can see the difference from day too day. :)
     
  44. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, Yes, I water with clean water, (only mist with the dawn/alcohol/neem mix) but the misting should have some alcohol and dawn and neem in it, shouldn't it? At least for a spritz or two anyway ? N

    o, not too strong but just enough to get their attention. I was using the alcohol and dawn, but today added a few drops of neem to the mix... See if anybody can survive that... :-D the plants themselves look great so far, nobody had croaked on me yet.......:-D
     
  45. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    I don't think it will hurt them at all, and it certainly is a deadly combination for the pests. Go get them! :boxing

    I have settled for misting with neem and water only, now that the plants are back in their regular spots in their window, but that's because I have a cat, and I know that neem is harmless for her to ingest if she starts chewing on the plants again. I'm not as confident about her eating alcohol and soap!

    I use the alcohol/soap/neem mix on my rose bushes out in the back yard, and as I said earlier in the thread, I completely showered and soaked the soil of the two plants with soapy water to get rid of the worst spider mites. I was worried the soap would hurt them, but they are just fine and happy.
     
  46. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi Mimsy, thanks! I have used the dish-soap/water mixture in the past for my outside flowers, but never on the inside ones... My rose never complained;)

    As far as the alcohol goes, I doubt if it lasts very long on the plant.... It evaporates so fast... I have a cat too.. Of course, what I am spraying, I have put a fence around it to keep HER from pruning for me.. :major I don't need that too... Oh, she is a good cat, but a better 'pruner'... She would just LOVE to munch on some of those leaves, for sure... She has done enough, believe me..

    You know, she really loves my aloe plant! Darn kitty anyway! :-D Maybe she liked the taste, I don't know, if it was that, or it helped with the hairballs:confused Anyway, she is barred from them now....

    OK, catch up with ya later! ;)
     
  47. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Spider Mite Update:

    Still misting the two plants daily with the neem-water mix. I remembered that Cat said earlier in the thread that they can take months to get rid of, so I am making plans to mist the plants daily for at least another four weeks. One single little thread showed up on the Petra this morning! I removed it and misted more than usual... I also noticed one of the bigger leaves have cat-shaped bite-marks in it. Hrmph. Despite the spider mites and my cat treating Petra like a salad buffet, she is still growing lots of new leaves.

    Since the mites spun a little thread on Petra she is once again isolated from all the other plants. The schefflera has been pre-emptively isolated as well.
     
  48. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Oh, Mimsy, I hope Petra is OK. yeah, spider mites are hard to get rid of, for sure, but we are armed, and we can zap them... :boxing

    I put a darn fence around mine, so my cat couldn't 'prune' it... She would love nothing better, for sure, but not me. And I do give her fresh catnip, and she doesn't appreciate it either! :mad

    Yes, I am also misting daily. I did find a small web on the very bottom of the pot of my Hibiscus.... I removed it, and sprayed it but good too... Now, maybe it will be able to grow in peace..... ;)
     
  49. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

  50. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Since hrlow bumped this thread... :)

    1. Petra is recovering. She's not back to her old large self yet, but she's growing new leaves and shoots, and bit by bit getting better. I'm feeding her coffee grounds and MiracleGro and making sure she's getting plenty of light. I want to re-pot her, but I want her to recover more first. She's still a bit frail, she doesn't have the margins she used to.

    2. I found this amazing all-natural no-pet spray for plants at Petsmart! It's called Bitter Yuck! and supposedly makes the plant reek and taste horribly to a cat. I have used it on several potted plants in my house, and they never even noticed that they were sprayed. My cats did though... they sniffed gingerly, sneezed, retched, and stopped chewing on the plant. :) I checked them closely, but aside from being grumpy they didn't suffer from it at all.
     

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