System shutting down while gaming.

Discussion in 'Software' started by shortphatokie, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    I’m new to posting but have followed the forums for a while now.

    I have been having a problem with my last build and would like some input from you all.

    Specs:
    Motherboard – ASUS M4N82 Deluxe
    Processor – AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition
    Memory – 4GB Kit of Patriot PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066MHz) Viper Series
    Video Card – MSI N470GTX-M2D12-B
    Power Supply – Ultra X3 ULT40311 1000-Watt
    Operating System – Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

    Now for a little history. When I first finished this build I was running Windows XP Pro 64bit with a BFG 750-Watt PS and a XFX GTX 285 video card. The problem has been going on since day one but the latest game I’ve been playing (Fallout 3 – I know it’s an old game but it has sucked my brain out until I finish it) seems to be taking advantage of whatever is sick and causes it to power down a lot more often than in the past.

    With COD4, FarCry2, Wolfenstien, COD WAW, and Borderlands it would only happen every once in a while and I decided I could live with it after changing to PS and testing the CPU and memory with no troubles found. But with Fallout 3 it crashes 5 or 6 times during each gaming session. This prompted me to try a newer video card thinking that maybe that was the problem but it still crashes. I have made sure that my BIOS is set up correctly for the memory and the system has never been overclocked. The latest thing tried was updating to the latest and greatest BIOS for the MB but it had no effect on the system shutting down.

    I have been building computers for a long time and have never ran into a problem that I couldn’t figure out until this one.

    Any thoughts? :confused
     
  2. itmortiz

    itmortiz Corporal

    I don't know much about gaming computers, but it could be the driver.

    Windows 7 is too recent, i guess would be a compatibility driver problem even if there's not a yellow sign (!) close to the device.

    I'd test using other operative system first if you think the hardware is ok.

    Tell us what you think.
     
  3. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Hmmmm, I did move from XP Pro to Windows 7 and was having problems with the other games on XP but I didn't start playing Fallot 3 until a couple of weeks ago.

    I was wondering if maybe the MB was having a problem but usually they either work or don't work. That's been my experience anyway.

    I did run tests on the CPU and RAM but even though they didn't find any problems maybe one or the other is bad?
     
  4. itmortiz

    itmortiz Corporal

    I want to discard your Video Card, as i readed you tried another one? same problem with different video card?

    <('.')> Did you installed the firmware of your computer?

    (>'')> You also could try to update your BIOS, but don't do it if you don't know how.

    <(''<) Think about drivers or maybe the game video configuration, set-up it to the minimum maybe is doing a overclocking.

    (+.+) I'm guessing you mean "shutdown when playing" is a suddenly shutdown without an advice right?
     
  5. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Yea, swapped video cards, bigger PS and updated BIOS......still have the problem. When it shuts down it just powers off......no warning. There are some times when it will just freeze up though, which isn't that often. Mostly just powers off.
     
  6. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Yea, new video card, new/bigger PS and updated the BIOS. Still the same problem. It shuts down like someone just pulled the power plug. It does just freeze on occasion but mainly just powers down.
     
  7. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Fallout 3 is a bit infamous for having stability problems on any OS you play it on. It just has problems that way.

    Have you tried the obvious things, like just uninstalling the game, wiping all traces away, and reinstalling it with your AV and firewall off? Run the installer As Administrator, for good measure. Have you modded the game at all? Are you having this problem with other GFWL games?
     
  8. itmortiz

    itmortiz Corporal

    The shutdown sounds like the processor is getting warm and the computer shutdown to don't burn it (all computer have this system, even some old ones), i suggest to you open CPU and check the cooler of the Processor, is a common problem, play and when shutdown put your hand close to the processor and see if it isn't warm.

    What about an energy problem, is your power supply enough for all devices that you have in your pc? (i guess yes but i have to ask)

    Tell us results!
     
  9. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    If it was a heat problem it would do it in all games, and also when running other applications, not just during Fallout 3. Not to mention that the CPU would have failed any test run on it, and TC stated clearly in his first post that he has tested the CPU and RAM.

    @shortphatokie
    Speccy can monitor your HDD and CPU temps, but to be honest, I doubt the crashes are caused by your CPU over-heating. You can save yourself a lot of time (and money!) by conclusively ruling out other things first. Such as the fact Fallout 3 is widely acknowledge to be unstable after certain official patches were applied.
     
  10. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Gah, I lost my edit button. Stupid timer.

    Anyway.

    I wanted to add to my earlier post that while it's very unlikely that Fallout 3 would cause your entire system to shut down, that doesn't mean it's impossible. It also means that since no other program is doing it, we really want to rule out Fallout 3 as the cause of your shut-down crashes before we move on to look at other factors. What firewall and anti-virus are you using?
     
  11. itmortiz

    itmortiz Corporal

    then i readed incorrectly:

    System shutting down while gaming.

    I was guessing in all games and more in Fallout. I didn't readed anything about apps, well....

    That's all.
     
  12. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    It only shuts down while gaming but here are a few of my other specs.

    AV – Avast (free version) I also run Malwarebytes (free version) once a week.
    CPU cooler – Coolermaster V8 (checked during games and the CPU is from 39C to 41C)
    Case – Coolermaster HAF932

    I have a memory fan as well that circulates air directly through the memory.

    The game is through Steam but I have other games through them (AVP) that don’t crash the computer as often as this one does. I also have games that aren’t through them that crash it. Like I said, this one seems to do something that takes advantage of the problem my computer has.

    This new GPU does get pretty smoking at 55C during games but I have read that it is to be expected with the 400 series Nvidia cards. They even get into the 90C range during extensive testing. The GTX 285 I have didn’t get as hot but the games still crashed the system.

    Replacing the MB, CPU and memory are the only other things I can think to do but that is a big hit to the bank account. :( I would rather just replace one component and be done with it.

    I have been building my own computers for over 20 years now and never seen anything like this. I also build for family and friends so I have built a lot of systems over the years. I have had CPUs, Memory and MBs that were DOA but nothing like this.
     
  13. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    55C is far from "Smoking" , my 4890 runs idle at 62C and games at 68C, it's normal when you get into the higher end cards. I'm assuming the 90C is something you've read about (judging by your wording), 90C is a video card killer, if you have seen your temps at 90C please post this fact and cease heavy video card use until the problem is fixed to attempt to avoid further damage.

    I agree with Mimsy, being a Fallout 3 player and having had it crash many times on me, don't recall a full power down crash but it's locked up and required a reboot a few times.

    Can't see it being a heat issue, as Mimsy said if it was it would do it on all games (please be specific, is it ONLY FO3 or is it all newer games?)
    For a hardware test, run FO3 on minimum settings, if it still crashes then it's definitely not heat issues (unless your card is already virtually dead.

    I would try reinstalling FO3, but before you do that, run it in compatibility mode for XP.

    But while we're on the subject, as Mimsy said, install "Speccy"
    Note idle temps of video card and CPU. (leave speccy open)
    Fire up a game.
    Play for 5 minutes and minimize to note temps again.
    Repeat this process 2 or 3 times to get an average temp reading.

    It's also worth repeating this process with 2 or 3 games for comparison.
     
  14. BILLMCC66

    BILLMCC66 Bionic Belgian

    90c is not abnormal for a GTX285 the card is rated at 105c max but it would shut down before it reached that.
    I had a GTX295 that ran consistently at 96C under load and did not give any problems.

    Having said that it does sound like a heat problem and it would not hurt to open the case and check everything is OK, if necessary re-apply paste to the CPU just in case,
    Does the case have a good air flow and are any of the intake/output vents clear.
     
  15. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Yea, the GPU is running around 55C with game load not the 90C. I had just read that it will run that hot under some conditions. I have ran the game with all the settings at medium and it still crashes. Haven't tried it at minimum but I will this weekend.

    Funny thing is that last night it only crashed 4 times and I felt like I was privileged or something. :-D

    The wife is gonna kill me when I finally have enough of this and buy all new stuff! rolleyes
     
  16. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    The GTX200 and -400 cards are smoking hot performers in more than one way... ;) That said, my personal philosophy is that cooler is always better in a gaming rig. Always. The cooler your components, the better.

    @shortphatokie
    What I'm about to suggest is a bit of a stretch, and I admit that it is a bit far-fetched, and the only reason I'm bringing it up is because my day job is RAM tech support, games use a lot of RAM, and if you have RAM issues they manifest in weird, strange, and sometimes border-line insane ways. No guarantees that it will stop the crashes, but we might as well rule it out.

    Patriot Vipers are "performance parts" with several timing profiles programmed into the SPD. If you've built computers for years you're probably familiar with the idea of over-clocking by manually setting the RAM timings and voltage. The thing with your motherboard is that it's a very smart and flexible one, and it can be too smart for its own good. It may well have been able to pick out the correct timing profile from the SPD, but since it absolutely wil not change the voltage to match, you may have tight over-clock timings running on too low voltage to quite manage to stay stable.

    Double-check that you have all timings and the voltage set correctly for your RAM specs (5-5-5-15, 2.1V). Set your command clock to 2T if it is set either to 1T or to Auto. Turn off any "Boost" functions in your BIOS, that attempt to enhance RAM performance as well, since you're configuring manually.

    If this doesn't change anything, you can just set everything back to the way it used to be, but I've seen incorrect RAM settings cause the problems you're describing and you have nothing to lose by ruling it out. Poorly optimized games like Fallout 3 are heavy RAM users.
     
  17. itmortiz

    itmortiz Corporal

    I don't know why i still thinking is a warm / energy problem, but i really want to know the solution of this :eek:
     
  18. Nedlamar

    Nedlamar MajorGeek

    Ok, this only happens while playing Fallout 3, correct?

    If this is the case then it's the game, as Mimsy and I said, it does have tendancies to crash, installing the expansion packs could help, I remember they stabilized my game a bit.

    But unless your PSU is faulty then it's not a power issue and at 55C it's certainly not a temp issue.

    Did you try running it in compatibility mode?
     
  19. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi

    Just a few questions first if I may....

    1. Did you upgrade install from XP64 to Win7 or did you clean install? as the clean install route is best as it helps remove any old legacy files from a previous OS that could cause weird issues.

    2. Check Event Viewer > Windows Logs and the System and Application logs for any crash information at the time of one of these crashes, I would try and make a crash happen and then on reboot check the logs as the Event Viewer can have many error that are not relevent as applications/services that have been blocked from starting error in these logs and thats normal.

    Then if you find the log from a crash at the time the game and PC crashed then double click to open and click Copy then paste the information into a Notepad file and attach and info on how to attach HERE
     
  20. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Those are the settings I used when setting up the system Mimsy. I double checked and it is still set that way.

    It happens a lot more with Fallout 3 Nedlamar, but it does happen on other games.

    This was a complete fresh install of Windows 7 64Bit Halo, I never buy the update versions of any OS.

    I have attached a copy of logs that popped up tonight in "Event Viewer" for your viewing pleasure. LOL

    I am leaning toward the memory having a problem......not sue why but I am.

    I ran Heavy Load V2.4 for over 2 hours last night without any hiccups. I then ran CPU Stability Test 6.0 for an hour with the same results.

    I ran MemTest86+ three times tonight with no troubles found. The problem with MemTest is that it only test the memory at 333MHz for some reason.

    Funny how my wife has no sympathy for me on this. :-D She will have something to say about it when I start buying components though......:-D;)
     

    Attached Files:

  21. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi

    Cheers for that info, I've numbered these not or order to make each section stand out more.

    1. Well there is a MSKB on the issue you are having KB2028504 which could lean to memory and your not overclocking are you, either CPU or GPU, maybe just check the settings for CPU in the BIOS and even underclock a little on the CPU, plus check GPU settings.

    2. You have not been using any of those awful Driver Finders have you to locate latest drivers?

    Another result of this error is in Audio drivers, although dont know why it would only effect one game over others, but maybe good to re-install the Audio drivers (uninstall present ones via add/remove or device manager) and reinstall the latest ones from ASUS for your board HERE

    Did the new install of Win7 have the XFX GTX 285 installed initially or was this added after then install of Windows 7? if after the install of Win7 then clean install your GFX drivers, while they are the same nVidia ones anyways, weird occurances can happen if you swap cards, so try the below (copied from a different post of mine)


    3. Your cases is a nice and spacious one, looked at them for my last build, a tad too large for the room space it was going to occupy, but my question is could you give us some idea on where the airflow is within the case,

    eg. 2x120mm fans front bottom of case drawing in air, CPU fan expelling air out towards 1x120mm fan expelling air out back, 1x120mm fan expelling air out of the top etc etc

    Pictures and arrows are even better.


    4. I know you updated the BIOS but to what BIOS version?


    5. Was your 4GB Kit of Patriot PC2-8500 all bought at the same time and have the same CAS latencies?

    Could attach an Everest report on this (hopefully the trial allows this) and this Everest report is not needed in full hence follow the below as its a customised report for just the section needed.

    Just wish to double check the ram, a mismach could give you an issue, hence why Mimsy asked on checking the BIOS RAM timings.
     
  22. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Sorry, I was a little under the weather the last couple of days. Last night I was dinking with the computer and saw that my BIOS setup had changed for the memory. It was set to 5-3-3-5 which is what the memory testing program runs it at. I changed back to 5-5-5-15 and the computer became very unstable. I ran the memory testing program again with no problems found but it once again changed my BIOS settings to 5-3-3-5. Weird huh?

    The main thing I found out is that it is now very unstable at the 5-5-5-15 settings which it needs to be set at for the memory to run at 1066MHz. So it looks like the memory is more than likely the culprit.......I guess?

    Now I am faced with the quandary of whether to just get some more DDR2 or upgrade my MB and get DDR3. If I am not going to use either SLI or Crossfire dose it matter what type of chipset the MB has on it?

    It's funny, looking this morning at prices, DDR2 is more expensive than DDR3.:(
     
  23. Mimsy

    Mimsy Superior Imperial Queen of the MG Games Forum

    Set the memory timings to 5-5-5-18, or to 6-6-6-18, and see if that helps.

    By the way, Patriot has a life-time warranty. Go here for info on how to request RMA and get the modules replaced.
     
  24. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Well, I spent most of the night playing around with the timing trying to find something that is a little more stable with. The higher settings have got it where it doesn’t lock up all the time now but it still isn’t real stable. I guess whatever was sick finally just died or at least got so sick it won’t work correctly anymore.

    I’m digging into the warranty to see how long it is going to take to get it fixed.

    Thanks for all the help everybody. :clap This is a great community and I wish I had joined it earlier.
     
  25. shortphatokie

    shortphatokie Private E-2

    Just an update for you ladies and gents.

    I went ahead and got a new MB and memory because it was going to take quite a while to get it RMA’d. I figured I could sell it on eBay once it comes in.

    New MB is a cheap model MSI for $79 and some DDR3 for just under $100. Guess what happened?!?!?

    THE SAME FRICKING THING!!!!!! *&$%#%@&*!&@%!!!!!!:crybaby

    With a lot more trouble shooting and running hours and hours of stress tests on the CPU and GPU, I have found that the PS is unable to run both the CPU and GPU at the same time under game loads. I dug up one of the old PSs I had laying around and rigged it to run without being plugged into the MB. I then ran the GPU with it and VIOLA!!!!! The whole setup runs forever without a hiccup!!!!!

    Soooo……WTF?!?!? Two PSs with the same problem? This newer one (6 mos old) is an Ultra X3 1000W! The 12V rail is rated for 800W by itself. Or could it have been a problem with one of the old components that degraded both PSs? The problem did become a lot more prevalent there at the end. And what was up with the memory acting up?:confused

    Well......at least it is working now. Again, thanks for all your help!!!!!:)
     

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