Black Screen after Windows Logo; No LogOn Screen

Discussion in 'Software' started by DHamme, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    I am experiencing problems with my HP pavillion a1220n.
    It is running Windows XP service pack 3.

    I also use;
    - Avast Home Edition, updated daily and run weekly,
    - Zone Alarm; auto-updated with prompts for all internet activity;
    - and Spybot Search and Destroy, which I run at the begining of each month or when unexplained activity warrants it

    I have two external drives. (380G and 180G)
    I have 3328 MB DDR2 SDRAM installed (3+ gigs)

    The Preface:
    On Saturday, I installed three freeware programs;
    - a-Squared HiJack Free
    - EULAlyzer
    - JING

    I downloaded and saved each executable, then scanned each with SpyBot S&D, and also Avast! - no problems were detected.

    Before I restarted properly, a circuit breaker was tripped due to an installation of a ceiling fan in another room. (Does this serve to complicate the diagnosis?)

    The Mistakes:
    - I did not back-up before installation - my last backup was in March, using Acronis Home Image 10, to an external USB drive.
    (I have since collected important docs on my desktop and in Outlook, which are vital to my jobsearch).
    - I did not purchase an Uninteruptable Power Supply

    The Problem:
    When I restarted the computer, everything appears normal until the Windows logo, and then the screens go black and no logon screen appears. However, there is a cursor, and it responds to my mouse.

    Things I've Tried;

    - I entered the "Safe Mode" - the 'load drivers' screen appears and then corner borders appear with the responsive mouse and cursor, and "Microsoft (R) Windows XP (R) (Build 2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090206-1234: Service Pack 3)" at top of screen, but still a black screen desktop with no Icons or Start menu

    - reboot and thru "F8" key, entered "Last Known Good Configuration" with the same results as normal reboot - black screen desktop with no logon screen and responsive cursor

    - Rebooted and entered the Windows recovery Manager, navigated to C:\Windows>

    - ran CHKDSK which reported that "the volume appears to be in good condition"

    - ran CHKDSK /p ; results -
    "CHKDSK found one or more errors on the volume.
    187472876 kilobytes total disk space
    23662628 kilobytes are available.
    4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
    4686219 total allocation units on disk.
    5915657 allocation units available on disk."

    - rebooted and entered SetUp via F1; some notations below
    BIOS revision 3.25 09/06/05
    Core Version 08.00.10
    CPU type Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.93 GHz
    CPU Speed 2933 MHz/533 MHz
    Cache Ram 1024KB

    Boot Device Priority>HDD Priority > (lists three hard drives as expected - I'm assuming this means they are detected, but unsure...and uncertain of the significance - other than this may indicate software rather than hardware issues?)

    hope this data is useful.

    your help is greatly appreciated.

    d
     
  2. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    > "- reboot and thru "F8" key, entered "Last Known Good Configuration" with the same results as normal reboot"
    Try this at least a dozen times before giving up on it! It often needs more than one attempt before it is successful.

    Also, pull the plug on your internet connection/disable your connection to the internet while doing this.

    Post back and let us know how that went please.

    Edit: BTW ... excellent post, thank you with all good information, and care taken!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
  3. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

  4. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    AustrAlien-

    I tried the last "last Known good config" option (while disconnected from the net) 12 times with no change in results.

    Thanks for the advice, anyway, and kind words.

    d

     
  5. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    TimW -

    Thanks so much for responding...MajorGeeks has been my homepage for the past four or five years.

    I have a long response here. I hope you will have time to read through it.
    Thanks in advance for your patience with me.

    so, here goes -
    Would you mind sharing your thought process with me? Which data suggests that this is or could be the issue?

    for instance:
    -Are one of the programs I mentioned known to be culprits for this kind of change/corruption?
    - Although I am on an expensive surge-protector, I am not on a UPS. Is this the piece that gives it away?
    or
    - Is this common behavior that you have seen in the past?
    - malware perhaps?

    I'd like to learn, a specifically as possible, from this event.

    also: (see questions below)

    I went to this link, which seems great, BUT...

    "Warning Do not use the procedure that is described in this article if your computer has an OEM-installed operating system. The system hive on OEM installations creates passwords and user accounts that did not exist previously. If you use the procedure that is described in this article, you may not be able to log back into the recovery console to restore the original registry hives. "

    Yikes! I am on an HewlittPackard with OEM Windows XP.

    Bear with me here, 'cause I think this may work, but I want to run some data by you first.

    I backed-up my C: Drive in March using Acronis True Image Home to an external drive.

    This software runs in the event of a corrupt operating system, because it overwrites it's own master boot record, and consequently can recover the disk image - which resets it to it's original saved state.

    I am uncertain, but I believe that the boot record contains the registry. Is this correct?

    My problem, which I am sure is more common than it should be, is that I have recently collected files and high-priority e-mails that I must retrieve to continue my job search effectively and efficiently, yet I did not back them up.

    So, my thinking goes like this -

    - I SHOULD be able to follow the steps on the link you provided me and retrieve the small bits of data that are not in my back-up image.

    - then I should run Acronis recovery (from a boot disk), which will overwrite the Mater Boot Record and allow for the image restoration, which in turn will rewrite the Hewlitt Packard boot record.

    Please correct me if I am in error.

    My other options are:-paid support from Acronis
    -paid support from Microsoft
    -paid support from HP
    -lose the data

    If you feel I will need paid support, please make recommendations for which entity I should call...

    and thank you so much for your efforts!!!!!

    sincerely,
    d
     
  6. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    DHamme

    Quote: "I have recently collected files and high-priority e-mails that I must retrieve to continue my job search effectively and efficiently, yet I did not back them up."

    Your first priority should be to retrieve your data in this case.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    There are numerous ways that this can be done, and the method you adopt is up to you. Can you remove the offending hard drive from your machine and connect it as a second hard drive to another machine? If so, this is a very quick, efficient, safe and (for me) convenient method, and what I would suggest you do first.

    When you start the second machine you should have accesss to your data, and be able to simply copy it to the working machine's hard drive.

    Let us know whether or not this is a suitable option for you.
    ============================
    Other matters:

    Quote: "Before I restarted properly, a circuit breaker was tripped due to an installation of a ceiling fan in another room. (Does this serve to complicate the diagnosis?)"

    I suspect that this is the cause of the problem. I do not suspect any of your previous actions (installation of the software) to be responsible. Because of the abrupt and untimely shutdown of your machine, some of the system data is now corrupt (not cofigured properly such that your machine will fully start the operating system). There is no way of knowing exactly where or what the fault is. If you could access "System Restore" and complete a restoration, that would probably correct the problem (and that is the effect of the article that TimW linked you to). If you can achieve this using your Acronis backup (and I would expect this to be the case), you should be able to get your system operating again. However, I am not sure how you would go about this.
    --------------------------------
    I expected that your installation of Windows XP on the HP pavillion a1220n was an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) one, and therefore you would find that the Microsoft fixes (such as the one suggested by TimW) are contra-indicated, leaving you without the option of trying those.
    --------------------------
    Quote: "I am uncertain, but I believe that the boot record contains the registry. Is this correct?" No, that is not correct. If there was a problem with the MBR, you would not have got as far as you did with the boot up process.
    -----------------------------------
    Paid support ... ? No, that will not be necessary at all, unless you wish to go that way.
    ------------------------------------
    FIRST THINGS FIRST ..... retrieve your data, then consider your next step***
     
  7. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Again, thank you for the wealth of information.

    I may be able to get another machine, but it will be a struggle to do so - I would have to convince someone to let me open their's, and I can't do it quickly. Although, my daughter is coming home from college in two weeks, she may be willing to bring her tower. There may be another, quicker option - I'm checking on that one.

    Meanwhile,
    if I do that, I will need instructions. (I have heard that I may need to alter dipswitches on the drive, and I also have heard that this is not a 'plug and play' operation.)

    I'm game, but it worries me.

    What's the next best choice, if I can't manage the logistics of getting a second machine? (I am writing from my old laptop.)

    On another note;
    I.
    Acronis gives this message when entering the "Startup Recovery Manager"
    "Description -
    When activated, Acronis Startup Recovery Manager allows you to run
    Acronis True Home before staring operating system by pressin F11 at boot time.
    Note: after activation, Acronis Startup Recovery Manager overwrites the Master Boot Record (MBR) with it's own boot code. If you have a third party boot manager installed, re-enable it after Acronis Startgup Recovery Manager activation...."

    I cannot say that I fully understand this - what is a third-party boot manager, and if I have one, how do I re-enable it?

    II.
    in the Acronis Restore Data Wizard, I am first presented with an archive tree, and I can select individual items. The following are the discreet choices that are listed for the C: drive - Would any of the following choices restore the "logon dll", or any other part that is needed?

    restorable folder list on C drive;
    >cmdcons>
    >Documents and Settings>
    >EPSONREG>
    >Fraps>
    >hegames>
    >hp>
    >MSOCache>
    >MY456>
    >NVIDIA>
    >Program Files>
    >Python22>
    >RECYCLER>
    >spoolerlogs>
    >Strek456>
    >System Volume Information>
    >system.sav>
    >SystemRoot>
    >temp>
    >WINDOWS>
    >~QTWTMP.TMP>

    If this information is useful, I can provide the list of contained subfolders -
    there are many. I do'nt know if the corrupt info is contained in any of these, but they seem to be restorable on an individual basis.

    salut
    d







    glad you are there!

    d
     
  8. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    No worries.

    Quote: "in the Acronis Restore Data Wizard, I am first presented with an archive tree, and I can select individual items. The following are the discreet choices that are listed for the C: drive - Would any of the following choices restore the "logon dll", or any other part that is needed?" Just how lucky can you get???

    How far into this one can you get?
    >System Volume Information>

    Quote: "I can provide the list of contained subfolders -" .... for System Volume Information, if you can. This contains your Restore Points. I want you to locate the folder RPx, where x is the highest number (that is your last System Restore point). On mine it looks like this:
    C:\System Volume Information\_restore{69B16775-E465-4340-B4AD-0A415A48C72D}\RP1

    Edit: You may find more than one _restore ... file in your System Volume Information folder. What I want you to do is find the RP folder with a date just before your "accident".

    Let me know how you get on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  9. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    I am a volunteer: This is not "tech. support".
    Solutions that work for me may not work for you.
    My Qualification: Just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
    Proceed at your own risk.

    **********************
    It seems that my first suggestion is not the best for you. Never mind: We shall move to my second suggestion, which simply involves using a "live" Ubuntu operating system to access your C: drive and copying your important data to a USB flashdrive, or to your external USB hard drive.

    Use Ubuntu Live CD to Backup Files from Your Dead Windows Computer:
    http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...backup-files-from-your-dead-windows-computer/

    Edit: using ImgBurn, change the write speed from Auto to 2x or 4x so that there is less chance of a mistake in writing.

    Try that and see how you go. Any hiccups/questions you can't get past, get back to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  10. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    I'm hoping pretty lucky. I took alot of time researching solutions in advance...
    but it's hard to know how to use them when needed...

    Okay, cool.

    >System Volume Information>_restore{A2578CBA-012A-4EE9-9E3D-27D3F494A2B6}> followed by six sub folders
    >RP813
    >RP814
    >RP815
    >RP816
    >RP817
    >RP818

    each of these folders contains

    >snapshot>Repository>FS

    No dates, however.

    So, it appears to me that I should attempt to restore RP818. Correct?

    By the way, I also saw your caveat regarding your status and qualifications, and your meaning is understood. Thanks for the warning.

    Having said that, would you (were you me) try the Ubuntu option first, or the Restore Point option?

    your grateful disciple,
    d
     
  11. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    I suggest you try the restore point first. If that does not work, go back to another restore point until you can boot the system.
     
  12. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    DHamme

    You are doing very well: Thank you for putting in such a big effort with your reports of what is happening at your end.
    If there are no problems for you in proceeding with the info retrieval method ... downloading Ubuntu (relatively large download file), and burning to disc .... then I would proceed with that. Not only is it the most cautious and safe method of achieving your primary objective (data retrieval), it is also relatively quick and easy. The other (often under-valued) benefit as I see it, is the educational value/the learning experience that you will derive.
    -----------------------------
    Re: getting your computer up and running again

    IF .... we choose to go down this road, that I have outlined ..... and I am not at all happy about that ....
    Correct. RP818 (818 .... gosh, it is a long time since you cleared your restore points!) would be your most recent restore point within your Acronis backup data, which you created in March.

    I have noted the most recent post by TimW, but unfortunately, the procedure we would need to follow is not as simple as it may first appear. Restoring a restore point .... is NOT what we need to do.We would actually need to use the data in that restore point file to restore the registry, and that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

    If you proceed to use Ubuntu to access your hard drive, we could also retrieve your latest restore point data (created just before the accident), and use that in preference to the Acronis backup which was done in March.

    There is a lot more work to be done before deciding on the approach to take here. Let us retrieve your data, and in the meantime consider our options. I do not know enough about the Acronis restoration feature at this time and will proceed to do some more research. There is going to be an easy way to do this (get your computer operating in the same condition it was at the time of the accident): I just haven't seen it yet.
     
  13. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    I'm all ears - diving into Ubuntu.

    :major
     
  14. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Well, I downloaded Ubuntu and burned the ISO, and ran the disc throught the first screen - the first option (no install)

    The logo and 'loading bar ran for a few minutes, then froze...

    the following report appeared approx. 5 minutes afterwards

    Ubuntu report:
    preparing restricted drivers : okay
    Setting the system clock :
    starting basic networking okay
    start jernel event manager: okay
    loading hardware drivers...

    /etc/rcS.d/S10udev: 105: usplash_write: not found
    Segmentation fault
    /etc/rcS.d/S10udev: 1: usplash_write: not found
    Segmentation fault
    Segmentation fault
    init: rcS main process (6254) killed by SEGV signal
    init: Unable to execute "/bin/sh" for rc-default: No such file or directory
    init: rc-default main process (7260) terminated with staus 255


    any ideas?
     
  15. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

  16. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Thanks - I am reading through these links.

    I tried usuing a newer Ubuntu version (9.x), but it also stalled, with the following messages;

    * Starting kernel event manager
    * Loading harware drivers
    sh: can't open /etc/rcS.d/S11mountdevsubfs.sh
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S13pcmcutils: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S15module-init-tools: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S17procps: Input/output error
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S30checkfs.sh
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S35 mountall.sh
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S36 mountall-bootclean.sh
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S37mountoverflowtmp. Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S37undev-finish: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S39readahead-desktop: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S39ufw: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S40networking: Input/output error
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S45mountnfs.sh
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S46mountnfs-bootclean.sh
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S49console-setup: Input/output error
    sh: Can't open /etc/rcS.d/S55bootmisc.sh
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S55urandom: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S70screen-cleanup: Input/output error
    /etc/init.d/rc: 390:/etc/rcS.d/S70x11-common: Input/output error
    init: rc-default main process (3327) terminated with status 127



    so , I am stuck, but reading...
     
  17. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Ubuntu is not proving to be as "quick and easy" for you, as I suggested it would be. I am sorry about that: I have only used v7.1 live, and not had any problems at all. While you are struggling with the issue of getting Ubuntu to load in your computer .....
    -------------
    Re: Your first post:
    Quote: "- Rebooted and entered the Windows recovery Manager" .... What exactly are you talking about here? What is the "Windows recovery Manager"? Did you have to boot from CD, or is it available on your computer?
    ------------
    Let's try a couple of simple basic steps with your disabled computer, on the off-chance that the damage is not all that serious.
    If you have not already done this:

    1. On the outside of the box;
    Disconnect and remove anything that does not need to be connected at this time (including all USB devices, and the internet connection), leaving only the mouse, keyboard and monitor connected (if the mouse/keyboard are connected using USB, try to find a way to use the PS2 connection, either with an adapter or borrow from elsewhere).

    2. On the inside of the box, remove any cards in the PCI slots, and disconnect completely any superfluous devices (and here I am thinking perhaps you may have more than one CD device connected?). Remove all but 1 stick of RAM.

    Re: Your first post:
    Quote: "Boot Device Priority>HDD Priority > (lists three hard drives as expected " .... I assume these include your two external hard drives ... but if it is the case that you have 3 hard drives in the box, disconnect all but the one with the operating system.

    Try booting the computer. Do you end up at the same place ie black screen? At this point I want you to assess the possibility that your computer may be starting and running in the background; it's just that the display is "stuck". Do you hear the Windows logon tune (assuming you did not have to actually logon in the first place), or is the hdd activity light flashing as it would normally when your computer boots? Any other "signs of life" that may indicate that Windows is running normally in the background? Let me know your thoughts on this matter.
    --------------------------
    HARD DISK ERRORS
    Re: Your first post:
    Quote: "- ran CHKDSK which reported that "the volume appears to be in good condition" ... - ran CHKDSK /p ; results -
    "CHKDSK found one or more errors on the volume."
    There is the possibility that hard drive disk errors are involved and there is no indication that you have actually repaired this. I would like you to follow the instructions in the following link. The article is titled
    "XP won't boot? - Performing a manual restore of the Windows XP registry" and appears to be well written.

    http://www.aitechsolutions.net/winxpnoboot.html

    Start at the beginning and first establish: "Is your safe mode boot frozen at mup.sys?"
    Then continue with the next section "Running Chkdsk from the Windows XP Recovery Console" and work your way very carefully through that, ensuring that you have "re- run chkdsk and make sure it comes up clean".
    And to quote from there: "If your system restarts ok now fantastic. The issue was not that serious and chkdsk fixed it! Congratulations!"

    We should be so lucky! Let me know how you get on with each of the above steps.
    -------------------
    The above article appears to be excellent: It may well be the best way forward for you that I have found to date. I suggest that when you need a break from the Ubuntu study, you read thoroughly the remainder of the article, and consider any problems you may have in following the instructions provided.

    Let me know if you think you may be able to proceed with the steps outlined in this article.
     
  18. TimW

    TimW MajorGeeks Administrator - Jedi Malware Expert Staff Member

    Or you could go back to my post #3 and follow those instructions as that is just a warning that MS includes and will work with most OEM installs.We use it in the malware section all the time with success.
     
  19. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Thank you for the post with that info. Is it the case that you do not ever come across the issue that the Microsoft warning relates "If you use the procedure that is described in this article, you may not be able to log back into the recovery console to restore the original registry hives." ? Is it perfectly safe for DHamme to go ahead with this procedure in this case ?

    As far as I can tell, the Microsoft article you referrred to and the one I referred to in my previous post are essentially one and the same: One appears to be a little more "user friendly than the other" to me.
     
  20. jimpeel

    jimpeel Sergeant

    I had the same thing back some years ago and came here for advise. My problem was intermittent which is the worst kind of problem. See the thread HERE but pay very close attention to THIS POST which links to THIS THREAD.

    The only thing that cured my problem was sending it back to HP for a BIOS upgrade.
     
  21. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Hi Tim and AustrAlien -

    It has been a few weeks and I have decided that, considering Tim's "Rank" I should heed his advice.

    So, today, I went through Step One of Article ID: 307545 (How To Recover...) and so far successfully copied the five files to a temp file as specified, then Deleted the five original CONFIG files as instructed.

    BUT -

    I now tried to copy the 'repair' files into the deleted filepaths, and get the following message "system cannot find the specified file"

    I hope this is a simple one, because I feel that I am in over my head.

    My assumption is that this is what the warning was all about re: OEM installs - that because the product manufacturer uses a different base config, these "repair" files do not exist in the OEM.

    Please tell me some good news!?!

    Thanks for your continued help.
    David:cry
     
  22. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    So pleased to see you back with us .... I have been waiting and waiting ...

    I will take a look at things ...
    and get back to you.
     
  23. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Did you have any luck with getting Ubuntu to run ???

    Did you get access to and retrieve your important data from the computer?

    Let me know if this is still a consideration and of concern to you.
     
  24. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    No sir, Ubuntu does not run... all ifo has been posted, and I do not understand the meaning of the messages that it returned, but apparently it cannot find or run what it needs to find or run.

    I still have info that I am hoping to retrieve - particularly correspondences that have not been backed-up.

    I am in the process of posting the results a directory search of
    c:\windows\repair

    it should be posted in the next half an hour.
     
  25. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    In Step One, item #5, all steps have gone well until the following;

    copy c:\windows\repair\system c:\windows\system32\config\system

    when I attempted this, this message appeared:
    "The system cannot find the file specified."

    Based on the results of the directory search below, should I try the following?

    copy c:\windows\repair\system.bak c:\windows\system32\config\system


    results of
    <dir c:\windows\repair>

    Directory of c:\windows\repair

    07/19/06 10:52a d------- 0 .
    07/19/06 10:52a d------- 0 ..
    08/04/04 03:00p -a------ 1688 autoexec.nt
    07/19/06 10:52a da-hs--- 0 Backup
    06/25/05 01:32a -a------ 2577 config.nt
    06/25/05 01:33a -a------ 237568 default
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 20480 DS_SAM
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 28672 DS_SECURITY
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 8425472 DS_SOFTWARE
    06/25/05 01:32a -a-h---- 237568 ntuser.dat
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 20480 sam
    06/25/05 01:32a -a------ 246914 secsetup.inf
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 28672 security
    09/02/05 01:21a -a------ 207687 setup.log
    06/26/06 02:12a -a------ 8425472 software
    09/02/05 01:21a -a------ 4763648 system.bak
    16 file(s) 22646898 bytes
    27308298240 bytes free
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  26. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    I am no more knowledgable than you are on this matter .... bear that in mind!

    Your idea .... seems sound. I have no other suggestion. It is what I would do.

    Try that and see what happens: It sounds like the thing to do.

    Let me know how it goes.
     
  27. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2


    Thanks...hoping Tim will weigh in on this, as it was his original suggestion and he seems to have experience with the process...

    Tim - Ware are you?

    Thanks again AustrAlien - it must be the right thing to do...just want to get right...

    more later!

    :confused
     
  28. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    I am guessing that TimW is likely to be very busy ... dealing with malware removal. He may not get the opportunity to see/weigh in .... for you?

    There are no doubt some other experienced members that will view these posts, and perhaps one of them will post with some reassurance for you.

    My suggestion would be:
    Copy the other 4 files over .... and if that goes according to plan, continue with your suggested move for the "system.bak" file. If that goes well ... and double-check it to make sure .... then continue on with the "fix" instructions. (Hopefully your system will start for you after this.) I do not think that there is any harm that can be done by continuing with this. However, I do understand your concern.

    Good luck.
     
  29. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Well sirs,

    I have completed Part One and...

    nothing has changed but the pointer icon

    The LogOn screen will not appear...just a black screen with a working mouse cursor, as originally reported

    so, I believe that I should delete the five config files that were altered and copy the tmp files that correspond (that I created in the first few steps of part one) back into their original positions as a RESET.

    do you concur?

    and then...

    1. are there any other data recovery options? i do have another tower now, but am deeply concerned about screwing up this drive completely...

    2. any idea how to get answers regarding the meanings of the Ubuntu messages? might they identify the actual issues?

    3. are there other options?

    4. should I use Acronis to access a restore point as previously discussed?

    5. ultimately i can recover the drive image using acronis, but that data is so important...


    your continued advice would be appreciated

    dhamme
    :(
     
  30. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Oh dear; that is not good news. It was worth a try, but there was no guarantee.

    I am concerned about your inability to run Ubuntu .... all in memory .... suggesting a possible problem with your RAM .... perhaps caused by the electrical accident?

    While I am working on a further reply, may I suggest that:

    1. You boot to your Ubuntu CD again, and at the first page of options, choose to test that the CD is fully correct "Check CD for defects". If that is OK, then move to the next step.

    2. Run the Ubuntu "Test Memory" diagnostic. It will run until you stop it. For any sort of meaningful test, it should complete at least 7 full passes without fail ... but the ideal situation for complete confidence in the result is to run it for 24 hours.

    Let me know how these two tests pan out.
     
  31. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    I agree that would be the best move at this stage, as you say.

    There was no guarantee, that the procedure followed would fix your problem. It was just a possibility that it would work. You have tried it and it didn't work, so best to restore things as they were, and assume there was/is nothing wrong with those files for now.

    There are many things that can be tried in moving forward ... but I will try to select the best and most likely to succeed .... so bear with me.

    I would very much like you to investigate the two tests that I have mentioned in my last post, while waiting.

    Meanwhile, I have downloaded Ubuntu 9.04 Desktop (the latest version)
    file downloaded: ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso
    md5 hash: 66fa77789c7b8ff63130e5d5a272d67b ... ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso
    and burned to CD. I will now test running it .... maybe I will be able to help with this ... I just don't know.

    I will get back to you.
     
  32. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    dhamme

    I will briefly address the following issues that you have raised, so you don't think that I am ignoring them:

    1. are there any other data recovery options? i do have another tower now, but am deeply concerned about screwing up this drive completely...
    AA: Yes, there are plenty of other options for recovering your data. Another desktop computer being available could well be handy ... but will depend to some extent on the hardware in the two computers being compatible. We will get to that, as the most likely way forward from here .... after a couple of other jobs.
    There is no need at all to be concerned .... you can do this easily, with a little help.

    2. any idea how to get answers regarding the meanings of the Ubuntu messages? might they identify the actual issues?
    AA: Good question and I am glad that you have asked that because I have just been doing some googling and reading .... and have come up with some answers. The error messages didn't mean anything to me at first: It turns out that you need to know a little about Linux and it's filing system ... and then they begin to make sense. The references are all to do with the Ubuntu system being loaded into memory, and the system having a problem there. The reference to Segment Fragmentation (described as muddled thinking!) in the first message may have several causes, including faulty memory. The second message is different, but again indicates a memory problem, with files loaded into memory.
    I have come across reference to problems with HP computers and a specific graphics card ... but I have yet to ask you whether or not you are using an added graphics card ... it would have to be in a PCI slot .... in place of the onboard graphics card. At this stage, I am pinning my best bet on a problem with one or more of your RAM cards .... and by the look of it you probably have 4 cards installed.

    3. are there other options?
    AA: There are other options ... it is just a matter of picking the right one to use in this instance, to get your computer system back up and running as safely and easily as possible. I will not elaborate .... or I could be here all night ....

    4. should I use Acronis to access a restore point as previously discussed?
    AA: It is very comforting to have that safety net .... but it is not the right time to use it yet. There are some things that need to be addressed first, not least of which are ensuring that the RAM being used is 100% good, and that the hard drive has been thoroughly tested and repaired as necessary.

    5. ultimately i can recover the drive image using acronis, but that data is so important...
    AA: Understood: We will take care of that as a high priority, so have faith and stick with us.

    your continued advice would be appreciated
    AA: No worries .... relax and enjoy the experience! All will be well. Please continue your full and detailed reporting of what is going on at your end: You are my hands and eyes .... and interpreter. The more info and the better it is ... the better the job that I can do from this end at helping you. Rest assured that I will see the job through to it's successful resolution with you. I don't EVER give up, and let a computer beat me.
    ================================
    Report on my experience with Ubuntu running LIVE this afternoon,
    on one of my spare machines.


    Re: "Check disk for defects" in ubuntu

    I ran this on my machine and it was relatively quick (about 5 -10 minutes)
    and it reported the following:
    "Check finished.
    No errors found."

    Re: "Test Memory" in ubuntu
    I ran this on my machine.
    It is actually a memtest86+ diagnostic utility, which is very good (the best).
    It will take awhile (a couple of hours or more) to run 7 full passes, so perhaps you could leave it on overnight to run.
    When you have finished testing, you will need to press the Escape key to finish and it will automatically reboot, and run the ubuntu CD setup again.

    There should be NO errors what-so-ever with the RAM. If an error is reported, then you will need to test each stick of memory separately with memtest86+, to find a good one that we can use to continue with our work, and then continue testing to sort the good memory sticks from the bad.
    ----------
    Re: Ubuntu 9.04 LIVE runs on my machine
    No worries ... about 3 or 4 minutes and I am at the Desktop of Ubuntu and ready to go: That's how it "should" have been for you too!
    =====================
    I have enough material prepared for my next post ... so before this one gets out-of-hand I should post it.

    One last request ... I need some details of "the tower" that you have aquired. Do you have a working tower/desktop computer to play with/mount your problematic hard drive in? Please give me all the specs ... and in particular, re the mobo ... we need to know whether it will enable you to connect your hard drive, which I believe is most likely to be a SATA drive, rather than an IDE/ATA type drive. They have different physical connections/cables. (The specs of your computer indicate that it comes with a 200GB SATA hard drive ... and I am basing my assumptions on this being the case with your computer. I checked your first post again, and you have not stated anything different about your main internal hard drive.)

    I await the memtest86+ results with interest.
     
  33. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Thanks AustrAlien,
    So far so good.

    1. No defects on CD
    2. I have completed three (3) passes so far, after 3hrs and 45 minutes - I anticipate completion around 10pm E.S.T.

    so far No Errors

    Data:

    Pentium 4 (0.09) 2932Mhz
    L1 Cache: 16k 19166 MB/s
    L2 Cache: 1024k 17454 MB/s
    L3 Cache None
    Memory: 2935M 1278 MB/s
    Chipset: Intel i915P/G (ECC : Disabled) - FSB: 133 MHz - Type : DDR-II
    Settings: RAM : 133 MHz (DDR266) / CAS : 3-3-3-9 / Dual Channel(Asymmetric)


    WallTime 03:44:00
    Cached 2935M
    RsvdMem 312k
    MemMap e820-std
    Cache On
    ECC off
    Test std
    Pass 3
    Errors 0
    Ecc Errors (blank-no value listed)


    more to come:major
     
  34. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    7 passes of the Ubuntu Memtest+ v2.11 completed.

    No errors.

    :confused:hammer
     
  35. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    That has got to be a good thing ... !?
    I will swallow hard, accept that as gospel for the time being ... and move on ....
    --------------------
    Have you completed the RESET of your files as above?
    --------------------------
    I have posted this previously, but If you have not already followed these steps, would you do so now please. Basically I would like you to enter the Windows Recovery Console and run chkdsk /p /r .... and re-run it if necessary until ... it reports that no errors were found.

    Running Chkdsk from the Windows XP Recovery Console
    http://www.aitechsolutions.net/winxpnoboot.html
    ---------------
    I still need answers to the request in my last post .... I don't mean to rush you if you are still working on it .... but I am going to assume you may require more direction here ....
    I can assume that it is working ... from the details that you provided, presumably from it, namely:
    Pentium 4 (0.09) 2932Mhz
    L1 Cache: 16k 19166 MB/s
    L2 Cache: 1024k 17454 MB/s
    L3 Cache None
    Memory: 2935M 1278 MB/s
    Chipset: Intel i915P/G (ECC : Disabled) - FSB: 133 MHz - Type : DDR-II
    Settings: RAM : 133 MHz (DDR266) / CAS : 3-3-3-9 / Dual Channel(Asymmetric)

    If it is a brand name box, in it's original configuration I need the brand and model details. (I want to be able to go to the manufacturer's website and determine the motherboard setup.)
    If the box is not ... original configuration .... then I need to know what is in the box: motherboard brand and model details, hard drives, CD-ROM drives, IDE and/or SATA cables.
    -----------------
    If the above chkdsk step did not enable you to restart your problematic machine normally (or in Safe Mode) ... then it is time to pull the cover/side of the boxes and proceed to place the problematic hard drive in your new box and retrieve your data.
     
  36. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    them's the results

    --------------------

    yes I have, before running the memtest86+ app
    --------------------------

    result from pass #1 - "CHKDSK found one or more errors on the volume."
    result from pass #2 - "CHKDSK has finished checking the volume." :):dancer

    after exiting from the recovery console and rebooting, the same results as originally reported - no logon screen, black desktop, and responsive mouse cursor. The only difference is that I have removed all peripherals (external drives, internet connection, printer, webcam, scanner and speakers.)

    see end of this post for one significant difference

    for the sake of thorough reporting, I went back into the recovery console again, and ran CHKDSK /p once again.

    results: "CHKDSK found one or more errors on the volume." :confused:confused:confused
    :( :***
    well -
    running CHKDSK /p/r again.

    I will post the results after a few more runs....

    ---------------
    I'm sorry, that appears to be a mix-up; those specs are cpoied directly from the read-out that was displayed on the problem machine during the memtest86+.

    I will provide the specs for the alternate, working machine.

    In brief, it is a CISNET Model #C-28. I believe that it IS the original drive, but we DID have to replace the power supply before my kid went to school. It is home now for the summer, and I will investigate further and get back to you.

    -----------------
    understood.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question - have we completely elimimnated the possibility that I inadvertently put some malicious code on this machine while installing freeware?

    The reason I am asking this is that, for the first time this morning, after running the memtest+ I am showing a new error message during the
    POST...and before the windows logo.

    It says "MBR error 2".

    Having googled this message, it has to do with Acronis, which leads me to be concerned about a growing virus. Of course, I am stabbing in the dark here; I just want to provide accurate reports, and state concerns.

    anyway, the following link shows a response to a post from an Acronis rep, who suggested running the 'fixmbr' command in the recovery console.

    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=101307

    should I do the same? I am thinking yes, but would like your opinion on if or when this should be attempted.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Another piece of information that I have not previously mentioned.
    When entering the Recovery Console (not Manager, as I erroneously stated in post #1) I am presented with three choices;

    1: D:\I386
    2: D:\MiniNT
    3: C:\WINDOWS

    The "D:\" drive is in part a virtual drive created by Acronis for catastrophic recovery purposes. I assume this is all normal, and I have been choosing option number three. Just thought I should mention this.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Finally, I registered with the Ubuntu Community Forum last night and posted the responses that Ubuntu returned when it failed to load. Hopefully someone will shed some light on the meaning of those error messages.

    phewww...

    hope this info is useful

    david
     
  37. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    update: it seems that I made a mistake in syntax on the command line /r - I did not leave a space, so the /r command line was never run.

    I am now 62% through with the operation.

    I will report back later on this....sorry:-o
     
  38. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Re: MBR error 2 .. after a quick google ...
    http://social.technet.microsoft.com...p/thread/435dc9dc-f3a9-48d1-8011-090af120d6b6
    ================================
    MiniNT sounds real good to me !!!

    Let's see what happens when you try to boot to this.
    Hopefully you will have a "small" working version of XP, with which you can perform your data recovery as well as attempt to repair the XP operating system.

    (I have investigated Acronis further in the past few weeks, even downloaded the Seagate Disc Wizard in preparation to begin using Acronis True Image that comes with it .... but that is as far as I have got .... wish I had gone further now.)
     
  39. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist


    Oooooooooooooooppppppppppppppssss !!!!
     
  40. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Based on what you have reported in your original post, and the results of my googling and knowledge ..... I am not suspicious of any malware being the cause of this problem. However .... "completely eliminated the possibility" .... would be too strong a statement to make .... there is of course always the possibility.

    I have previously stated that I believe your problem was caused simply by the accidental power failure that occurred, and I still think that is the most likely cause.
     
  41. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Re: miniNT

    Without knowing why or how ... you have it there on your boot menu ...

    I am thinking BartPE .... too good to be true !

    http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

    BartPE is the best thing ... since sliced bread!
    It enables you to have a mini- version of your very own XP system, to work with at any time you wish ... and in your current circumstances, would be very useful to have. It is YOUR alternative to using Ubuntu ... it will enable you to do what you were trying to use Ubuntu to do ie. retrieve your data and attempt a repair of your system.

    If you were to google for "BartPE" .... the results would keep you interested and busy for a long time. It is just one of those things that "everyone" should/must know about, have, try and play with.
    -----------------
    I must leave home shortly and will be away from the computer for about 6 hours
     
  42. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    Re: ubuntu live

    I remain deeply suspicious of RAM as the cause of the failure to get Ubuntu to run successfully LIVE.

    While googling this evening I found the following link:

    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/errno-5-inputoutput-error-639355/

    Try removing all but one stick of RAM ... I suggest leaving a single 1GB stick in the first (closest to CPU) slot of the mobo.

    If that fails to load Ubuntu live ... try a different stick of RAM in the same slot.

    If that fails, try the stick in the next mobo slot.
    -----------------------------------
    Tips for working in the box
    *Turn off the power at the wall switch but leave the power lead connected (to earth the box properly), before doing anything else.
    *Touch your hands on the metal box before touching any parts inside the box.
    *Touch the box often while working in the box.
    *Avoid moving about on the carpet unnecessarily ... as it is likely to create a buildup of static electricity.
    *Lay the box down flat on it's back to access the RAM cards most easily
    *Use a good light to see what you are doing.
    *Take your time, and work carefully and deliberately.

    BTW Good looking post in the Ubuntu forum ... pity there is no response!
     
  43. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

  44. DHamme

    DHamme Private E-2

    Thanks for all the work you've done on my behalf.


    We have a mystery on our hands, and I have much to report, but I am out to a memorial service for the rest of the day.

    I'm sure that you will be interested in my findings (all made possible with your generous help).

    Bottom line - the computer works, but I do not understand why.

    Multiple test results to follow.

    I, like you, do not give up on problems I do not understand.

    The pressure is 'off', so-to-speak, but the I look forward to continued diagnosis.

    Sincerely,
    D
    :-D:confused
     
  45. AustrAlien

    AustrAlien Specialist

    That is very good news. I look forward to your next post.
     

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