Stumped?????????????

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by steveb, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    First off my system : AMD 64x4200 dual @(2.2z factory, with max of 3.0z) / Gigabyte GA-K8N-pro-sli / 3.58gb ram ddr400 / XP pro. I re-set my cpu freq to 215 and my cpu volts to 1.425 it worked well raising from 2.2 to 2.4, without any excessive heat. Well if that worked so well:) Lets rase it some more!! I took it to 218 and it would not boot so i raised the volts to 1.50-1.55 still no dice, so I set every thing back to what did work 215/1.425 :confused: Had to take it to 210 /1.425 and it booted. What is the prob? It may be the multiplier thing you were talking about in another thread. How would i do that? Do you have any parameters i could use?:rolleyes: :)
    I
     
  2. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Are you just raising the cpu's fsb/htt in isolation or are you also changing the memory divider also.

    I C you are using DDR400 ram. In which case if you are not using the memory divider then I am guessing the ram works fine up to 215mhz but fails above that.

    On my Asus system (specs below), I am running my SD4000 (stock 2400mhz) at 2880Mhz on a x12 multi. However, I am also running the memory divider at 5:6 so that my ram is effectively running at 192 ie 2880/15

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2006
  3. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    All i am doing is changing the cpu freq from 200mhz to 215mhz and changing the cpu volt from default to 1,425. Don't know how to change anything else. Although I'm well educated it's not in this field. My ram is (2) 512/cl2.5 and (2) 1gb cl2
     
  4. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Ok so basically what is happening is you are running your cpu to ram at 1:1, therefore your are o/cing your memory which is running fine up to about 215mhz but fails above.

    You will need to use the memory divider to slow down the ram.

    You are going to have to do some reading up on your specific cpu. You will also need to find out what steppings you have.

    Here are good places to start but there are many others

    http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

    http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=52812

    As a starting point try vcore 1.5 fsb/htt 250 multix11 and set the memory divider (located in your bios) at 5:6.

    If these work your cpu clock speed will be 2750mhz and your ram will run at 195Mhz.

    I am not sure if this will be stable as I only had a brief look. However, if this seems to be stable try dropping vcore to 1.45v.

    Once an o/c appears to be stable you will have to run Prime95 and SuperPI.

    O/cing requires good overall cooling as well as a good cpu cooler. Remember that if your cpu temp rises above 50C (especially during winter) then your cooling solution is lacking.

    As a ref my SanDiego idles at 33C and under full load (Prime95 max heat test) 44C.

    Good Luck
     
  5. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    v-core is set @1.35 and i can't access it. I presume the multiplier is in there also? or Would that be the cpu clock ratio? I also can't find the memory divider anywhere. There is nothing that i can find that refers to HTT? Is that the cpu freq? Come on stay with me! I'm not an "idiot" I'm just learning. All of what I have been working with has been in (MB INTELLIGENT TWEEKER). I read the major geeks forum link you listed. That helped a lot, only I can't find most of the places he is referring to. Do they go by any other name or title?

    I fly $65,000,000 commercial aircraft for a major airline, and I get a lot of seemingly stupid questions asked all the time, but you know I was asking the same Q's when I became interested in aviation. Anyway stay with me I'll get it. Steve
     
  6. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Don't worry. I was like you a few years ago (well not a commercial pilot) but a n00b.

    Look start at the begining. I see you have Gigabyte board.

    1. Did you build this rig.

    2. Have you read the manual.

    3. Certain entries in the bios have 'auto' selected which hides additional functions.

    4. Have you looked at all the entries in your bios. Your mobo will definately have entries for manual adjustment of vcore, ram voltage, etc as well as fsb/htt and memory ratio.

    You will have to look at the bios again and this time 'pay close attention' :)

    It's odd because in your first post you say that you raised the vcore to 1.5v but now you say that you cannot access it? Ok, which is it :)

    Post back and if I have time, I will download and read the manual and see where everything is located.

    EDIT: cpu clock speed= multiplier x fsb/htt ie in my case 2880=12 x 240 got it.....

    Good Luck
     
  7. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Ok had a look at the manual.

    p.49 Under Intelligent Tweaker

    1. Change HT Frequency to x4.
    2. CPU frequency, your fsb so to speak this value will o/c your cpu. Default is 200. Your cpu clock speed is 2200 ie 11x200. Raise that to say 220 for now
    3. K8 CPU clock ratio looks like your multi. Select it and a box will open with values up to 11. I always prefer to have it manually selected so select x11 manually.
    4. DDR clock timing mode. Change from Auto to manual. This will open up the fields below so that you can access them manually.
    5. CPU/DDR clock cycle, this will adjust your ram speed in relation to your cpu speed from a fsb point of view ie this is the memory divider. Ie you can run the fsb and ram at different speeds. Select 2/1.83 for now. This value will change as you raise fsb ie cpu frequency
    6. CPU spread spectrum. Should be disabled when o/cing
    7. CPU voltage control for cpu vcore. Raise that to 1.45v for now
    8. DDR voltage control. Volts feeding your ram. Default is generally 2.5v though some ram, eg Corsair default at 2.6v

    Leave everything else unchanged.

    Prior to that go and download and install

    1. CPU-Z this will tell you about you cpu clock speed and ram
    2. Prime95 for stability testing after the o/c (this to test o/c)
    3. SuperPI

    Points to note about o/c

    1. PSU. You need a good psu. O/c will add load to the 12v rail. As an example my SanDiego stock draws about 80-85w o/ced to 2880Mhz it draws 110-115w
    2. Good cooling in respect of the cpu but also overall cooling from a case point of view. An o/ced cpu will generate more heat. You need to keep your o/ced cpu at or below 50C. Winter is better for o/cing but come summer months stable o/cs can break down.
    3. The steppings, on the cpu itself will determine to a certain extent how far you can go. My SanDiego is a KAB1E last of the SD4000 and generally good for 2.9-3Ghz on stock voltage.

    The values I have given you above are just a starting point. The Cpu frequency of 220 when using 2/1.83 with CPU/DDR cycle will give you ram speed of 201Mhz ie cpu clock 220x11=2420, ram speed 220/2x1.83=201.

    I am pretty sure that I have not overlooked anything.

    Another point to note. On my board, there was an overclocking problem with high fsb, namely that this created hdd data corruption. However, my board has a Via chipset whereas your Gigabyte is Nvidia based. Prior to raising the fsb vey high, check this aspect. Hopefully, someone with that type of chipset can comment.

    Good Luck

    PS I am sure that you will have questions….
     
  8. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    Man your pretty dang good @ this. A wise man once said "If you find a job that you love doing, you will never work another day".So true. Gonna give it a try and see what happens. Making a trans continental flight to Europe today I'll be using my laptop for the next several days. I'll will let you know if I crashed crashed and burned. The computer I mean. (a little black humor) Back @ you when I get home.
     
  9. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    OK, first off; I looked over the manual, I looked around BIOS, didn't find what I was looking for. Maybe password check [ setup ] is it. I'm not literate enough to in comp language to go changing things around and find myself lost in the maze. Gonna go back and jump in the deep end and see if I can swim or not. If you hear back from me I floated, if not I,m @ the bottom turning blue, most likely RED. I just hope there is a fail-safe that will always let you in by pressing delete.
     
  10. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    :eek: Just another note before I jump in. In the manual I am looking at page 52 not 49 !!! When I use delete on boot up, It takes me to what you see on page 52. I will wait for a reply.
     
  11. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Hi, correct. Hit the Del key repeatedly on your k/b once the pc is booting and you will get to the main bios page that is featured on p52.

    Then select MB Intelligent Tweaker by way of the up and down arrows and once you finish F10 or hit Esc which takes you back to the main page and select Exit and Save Changes.

    Make a note of what you are changing always a good idea.

    I am trying to get you to understand the basic o/cing process and the suggestions I made in respect of setting fsb etc are pitched low so that system will post. The finer points of tweaking can only be done by you with testing.

    Further points to note.

    1. A good over clocker will burn components in before o/cing. This allows for higher o/cs and lower voltages. What does that actually mean. Well, at stock speed, 1. run a prog called memtest86 on your ram and once done 2. run Prime95 each one for 24hrs.

    2. You understand of course that the x2 4200, which you have, is not the best dual core choice for o/cing. An o/cer seeking a dual core cpu to o/c would have gone for an opteron as they can hit 2.9Mzh (I think its the 170/175).

    The 2 last things that I am not wholly sure about simply because I have not had an Nvidia board for quite some time regards Cool'n'quiet and a lock for the pci bus. I have had a close look at the manual for your board but cannot see them.

    Cool'n'quiet features on my board and allows your cpu to run cooler by dropping the multiplier. Not sure if this exists on your board. Also not sure if a pci lock exits on your board as my board is a K8T800Pro which I built (still builiding) a year ago. You can find out about these bios listings by posting in the hardware forum of this board. At low levels of o/c these items are not 'critical'.

    Don't forget at least to download cpu-z / cpuid as this will show you your cpu's clock speed and ram speed as well. Download and run it before o/cing.

    Here is a good informative thread also

    http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-39775-Overclocking-athlon-64-X2-4200-need-help.html

    Sorry about the long post.

    Good Luck
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  12. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    Ok, I just went back and looked again. Here is what I see. (*) denotes NO access.

    cpu freq [210
    (*)cpu spread spectrum [center spread]
    pcie clock [102]
    k8 cpu clock ratio [default]
    cpu volt control [1.450]
    (*)normal cpu Vcore [1.350]
    chip set core pcie volt [normal]
    ht- link volt control [normal]
    DDR volt control [normal]
    and as the wabbit said; that's all folks. How do you access Vcore? That is where the problem is . I think. This is all that is in tweaker section






















    0
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  13. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Cpu vcore is accessed by way of changes to

    cpu volt control [you have this set at 1.45v]

    ie the entry above

    normal cpu Vcore [showing 1.35v the default vcore for this cpu core]

    see p.51

    In respect of changing 'Spread Spectrum', I take it it is 'greyed out'. Changing one of the Auto functions higher up on the same page to a manual entry (as I mentioned in my posy higher up) will activate it.

    BTW, welcome to the fun world of Bioses and the wonderfully explanatory information that all motherboard manufacturers provide. They tend to assume a high(ish) level of knowledge.

    Good Luck
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  14. steveb

    steveb Private E-2

    OK,OK,OK!!! I've found the problem! Gigabyte GA-8n-pro sli is factory set to not go past HTT 215. No matter what you do.I found the info @Planet ADM 64, a bunch of guys have been trying for years. What they are doing is o/cing in windows. they never said how, maybe you know? I understand it has to be done every time you turn on you PC. Evidently you are tricking BIOS. Once the PC boots BIOS settings goes to sleep and you can than you can make the changes to HTT and others. O almost forgot what is a good mobo that is a good o/cer. I'm in the market for one. Thanks for all your help you have been great. You're a friend and a Gentleman.
     
  15. risk_reversal

    risk_reversal MajorGeek

    Interesting about the Gigabyte board. I must say I am surprised to hear that.

    In terms of an o/s ie windows based o/cing utility then you can use ClockGen. Just google for it and make sure that you get the one for your board. With ClockGen you will be able to o/c the cpu's fsb but you will still need to use the bios's memory divider.

    In respect of a good o/cing board, well it depends on how far you wanna go. Most hardened o/cers use the DFI Nforce4. They are various models of that board.

    The best place to get info on those boards is at dfistreet

    http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/index.php

    I am sure that others will offers advise also.

    Whatever new board you choose make sure that you get user feedback first before buying it.

    Good Luck
     

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