Something has got to give...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by rogvalcox, Aug 15, 2005.

  1. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    What is the current price for gas in your area??? I'm in Aurora, Il (far west suburb of chicago) and we are running about $2.70 - 2.80/gallon!!

    This is getting rediculous...they are doing nothing but driving us into a SERIOUS recession, but apparently there is no authprity figures that seem to care (i.e. president, congress, etc.)!!!!

    Oh...wait a minute....our president has his hand in the pot...what was I thinking!! :confused: :mad: :( But we won't get into that right now!!!!

    I don't watch much news...does anybody have any cold hard truth (not speculation) as to why it is getting so rediculous????

    Now that I have to go to work everyday...I can't much keep up with current affairs!!

    Roger
     
  2. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    And have been for some time. But it's taxes on oil that go to the government that isn't fair (such as the UK Petrol tax...). If it was all going towards research for alternate energy sources, then I wouldn't be so bothered but it isn't ...
     
  3. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    $2.18 here. well the last time i checked it was;)
     
  4. Shadow_Puter_Dude

    Shadow_Puter_Dude MG Authorized Malware Fighter

  5. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    $2.79 by my house, up from $2.56 this morning. :eek:

    National average is $2.55. I wanna live in "average". :(
     
  6. laurieB

    laurieB MajorGeek

    hawaii has the highest prices in the states, and the big island the highest in this state. funnily enough i couldnt give you the price of the top of my head, but ill check next time i go out. aloha
     
  7. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Word. It's called supply & demand, and who sits in the White House doesn't mean squat. To aggravate our problems, we haven't built a new oil refinery in something like 20 years, despite steadily increasing demand, and the ones we have are ALL running at virtually full capacity. And you can't build an oil refinery overnight.

    We have proven reserves in Alaska, which so far Democrats and environmentalists have kept us from tapping. You want cheaper prices? Tell the Dems and Envirowackos to shut up and go home.
     
  8. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    Actually...here...it went from 2.57 at 7:00 am this morning to 2.79 at 8:00pm tonite!!!!!!!!!!

    As far as bush being directly involved...I'm not sure about that...but...when the president has serious stake in the crude oil industry...it definatly raises eyebrows!!!! Especially when the government isn't even pretending to be concerned about the fact that this is going to have a trajic impact on the economy as a whole!!!!!! Not just us median income peons out here that live on a tight budget!!!!! It's going to come around to bite everyone in the ass eventually, if something isn't done!!!!!! It's called a recession...a serious one!!

    Unfortunately....or I gues maybe...fortunately....I'm not old enough to be firmiliar with former oil crisis's...I was born in '73, so I'm sure you can see the math!!!!

    Roger
     
  9. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    I don't argue that one bit!!!!! But see...a majority of those involved with the government...make enough money that it hasn't directly effected them yet!! When you make upper 6 figures...you can afford to fill up your ford excursion and not have to take it out of your weekly grocery budjet!!!! Hell....half of them probably haven't bought gas in god knows how long!!!!!

    But like I said before...It's quickly coming to the point that it is going to effect ALOT more than mine and your pocket book!!!!!

    Roger
     
  10. martinch

    martinch Specialist

    Totally agree with G.T. and just read today that usage was up 1% over last year at this time so people are not conserving. Was on the interstate up towards Chicago on saturday for a family reunion and most of the people on the road were driving around 75 to 85 miles an hour.
    If they would slow down it is unbelievable what they would save in gas and it really makes very little difference on the time it takes to get someplace.
    Due to wind drag, to double your speed it takes 4 times more power. So if everyone would drive the speed limit ( I thought that was the law!!!!) it would save a huge amount of fuel.

    Sorry rant over. [​IMG]
     
  11. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    Ask the G-boy in his pimped-out Escalade, or the soccer mom in her Hummer2. As long as fools insist on driving monstrous status symbol trucks witn barely double digit gas mileage and are willing to pay through the nose to be fashionable on the road, count on gas prices going up.
     
  12. PhilliePhan

    PhilliePhan Guest

    I know it is fun to bash those of us on "the Left," but that bill isn't going to make much of a dent until our gluttony eases up.

    I know you've been occupied with more pressing concerns lately, my friend, so I'll cut you some slack on the fact that the energy bill is now in Dubya's court! ;)

    Senate overwhelmingly approves energy bill
     
  13. PhilliePhan

    PhilliePhan Guest

    Reading between the lines here . . . . . Are we predicting a regime change?? ;) :D
     
  14. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    You seem to be suffering from the "Washington does everything" fallacy. We went to war for oil. Wrong. Bush hs financial ties to the oil industry. Wrong. He used to, but that was several jobs and many years ago. Washington somehow controls prices on, what? everything? Wrong again.

    We live in a free market society, where prices are determined by market pressure, not by government controls. That may cause some bumps and rough times, but we were stupid enough to implement price controls back in the 70s, and that was FAR worse than letting prices run free.

    I'm sure some of the oil companies would like to build more refineries, but nobody wants a refinery in their neighborhood, and EPA regs make it tough to build one even if you can find a spot. Our best untapped oil reserves in Alsaska have been sitting there waiting for us for years, and Bush, who you continually want to demonize, with NO facts to back you up, is the first president with guts enough to buck the wackos and push to USE them.

    The 55 mph national speed limit that was the law for many years, was put in place during/after the gas crisis in the 70s. It was put there to save gas, not to save lives, although it probably did a bit of that too.

    You want to return to that? We may have to if people don't start downsizing their vehicles pretty soon. At some point, gas prices WILL cause people to downsize. Where that price point is, I don't know, but despite all the b*tching and moaning, we aren't there yet.
     
  15. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Doesn't take much predicting. Bush can't run again, so whatever party wins there will be a new regime next time.
     
  16. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

    Yeah, don't sell the family farm because of this crap. It comes and goes, the prices will go down as star mentioned.

    I know people already trading cars because of the high gas prices, just give it time, it won't last forever.

    Steve
     
  17. Shadow_Puter_Dude

    Shadow_Puter_Dude MG Authorized Malware Fighter

    The price of sweet crude isn't being effected by the standard market forces, it's being effected by investors worried about instability in certain oil producing nations, particularly Iraq. The US gets very little of it's oil from Iraq; Russia and Eastern Europe of the other hand get a significant amount of their oil from that region. Russia and the Caspian Sea Basin have huge amounts of oil, unfortunately they are still years away from full production, then the oil has to be moved from regions like Uzbekistan to ports for shipment across some extremely rugged terrain, and unstable geopolitical regions.

    Then here in the US, not only have we not built an oil refinery in some 20 odd years as G.T. pointed out; refinery capacity has actually decreased, as many refineries were closed by the Oil Companies. I suspect mainly to decrease the supply of refined oil to artificially inflate the price of gasoline when oil production increased coupled with a decrease in the cost of a barrel of oil. In the last 30 some odd years thousands of producing wells were shut down; not for the lack of oil, but mainly out of environmental concerns (read here the greens and other assorted environ-wackos).

    Is the supply of oil in the world decreasing, sure it is. Are we going to run out anytime soon? Don't know even the so call experts can't agree on that.

    Should the government step? Don't if they can, and if they could I don't know what effect it would have on stabilizing the price of crude. It would have to take the concerted effort of all nations who have commodity exchanges removing crude from the exchange, so that the speculative investor can't continue to screw with the price of crude driving it through the roof.
     
  18. PhilliePhan

    PhilliePhan Guest

    Not true!

    Look at how many in current regime served under Reagan and Bush the elder.

    Heck, one of the ironies of the current Iraq war is the part Donald Rumsfeld played in helping Saddam Hussein acquire chemical weapons when he was Reagan's special envoy to the Middle East. But, that is a topic for another thread . . . ;)
     
  19. Shadow_Puter_Dude

    Shadow_Puter_Dude MG Authorized Malware Fighter

    Actually the percurcors came from Russia. The US supplied him with the targeting intelligence during the Iran/Iraq War; and the advisors knew full well that Iraq was going to use chemical weapons when they supplied the intelligence to Iraq.
     
  20. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

    I wish you guy's would stay on, don't want to see a fight or anything, but I am learning alot of interesting views and information.

    Nothing like a good friendly debate. ;)

    Steve
     
  21. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU


    You forgot Duke Dukakis, who helped elect GWB....

    McCain drives an electric?

    Drive the Patriot Car

    The Campaign to save electric cars

    This all in the land of Wackos- Southern California!

    McCain was not listed.... :confused:
     
  22. PhilliePhan

    PhilliePhan Guest

    This is true, but the US also sold him chemical agents and allowed American companies to sell him poison gas. You are indeed correct about helping him interpret satellite intelligence.
    I don't want to throw this thread any more off course ;), but you got me thinking about an old piece Gwynne Dyer wrote about why Saddam could not be tried on the world stage - So I looked it up for you . . . . The Trials of Saddam Hussein
     
  23. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    Ayuh. Happens all the time. And if you're in a different part of town, there's still that big a difference. However, it's not worth the ~15 mile drive through construction traffic to save a quarter a gallon....yet....
     
  24. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    Hmm. I've done this experiment. Same drive, same time of day, same car, same weather conditions. Going 78mph, I get ~33 mpg. Going 65mph, I get ~34mpg. It takes me roughly 75 minutes to get where I need to go at 78mph. It takes me roughly 90 minutes to get to the same place at 65mph. No thanks!
     
  25. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    as Goldie said we have high fuel taxes and duty ( circa 70% ) which whack up our petrol price, at present locally its the equivelent of $7.48 a gal.

    Its the same old story, oil companies get rich ( read: the bosses get rich ) and dont invest in new plant and updated equipment as they want to make higher profits! then comes the excuse to inflate the price of oil per barrel, you only needs someone to fart or cough in the wrong direction and hey the price of crude jumps a few $$'s.

    Someones getting mighty rich out of all this and the prices now they are at this level will not go back to the $28 per Barrel level of a few years ago (2003)


    Even if we all moved to electric the Gov ( especially in the UK ) would tax that or electric cars similar, they cannot afford to loose the revenue generated by the motorist as if funds other things apart from the crumbling british roads and public transport.

    I personally would move to electic cars if they were priced to compete with petrol but sadly the car companies price them high and no way would you recoup the difference from buying electric over petrol!
     
  26. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    Well I know we in Australia have had a price hike of from about 46c per litre in the pre-Iraq I. era to now about $1.20 per litre, and still set to rise. That equates to roughly $4.50 per gal.

    Supply and demand has little to do with it, at least in this country. West Australia alone has extensive oil and gas reserves, not to mention the Bass Straight and other fields over east.

    Take into account the recent inclusion of a 10% Goods and Services tax across the board and it makes you wonder where all these tens of billions of dollars are going. Oh yeah, the Govt. has also seen fit to flog off any public assets, such as the telecommunications giant, Telstra.

    All we hear is how great the economy is, and how much of a surplus the Govt. has. We sure as heck don't see it any of it in any form.

    War is an expensive business, and so is being an ally, unfortunately. Someone's got to pay for it. Guess who?

    We get the same deal with food and housing, and just about anything else. One thing we have plenty of here is land and resources, but ya wouldn't think so. Ah, such is life in the modern world.
     
  27. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    I thought you might have made an error in that figure, but no I checked it out myself. From Tesco Express a gallon is $7.30 (£4.04). And that's cheap. How much of that is tax? Nearly 70%.

    Madness.
     
  28. Jerkyking

    Jerkyking Sergeant Major

    You hit it right on. Plus most of the cost we pay is in Taxes (Fed, State and Local). I've been around the world a few times and gas here is still pretty cheap compared to other nations. http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

    When I started driving (25 years ago) it was just under a buck. Since then the cost of property, homes and cars has more than tripled... gas has finally caught up.
     
  29. Mississippimud

    Mississippimud Private E-2

    hasnt been one of those since the british were thrown out 225 years ago. it just been different sides of the same coin every since. its just that the coin is getting larger and larger.

    price of gas wont go down till demand goes down. everyone is hereby ordered to push their SUV off the nearest cliff and hop on a harley. :)
     
  30. mitro

    mitro Private E-2

    Rog, the Gas City in Oswego had premium at $3.05/gal this morning on my way to work. On the way home, however they dropped it to 2.79/2.89/2.99. Whoopie!

    BTW: Hi all I'm new (thanks to the guy who started this thread).
     
  31. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Harley's are still hogs. Hop on a Vespa. :D
     
  32. Mississippimud

    Mississippimud Private E-2

    you better believe they are, but i'll put my MPG up against an Escalade anytime. ;)

    VESPA ? isnt that Italian for MoPed ? :p
     
  33. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Not quite. Motor scooter, yes, but they don't have pedals. :)
     
  34. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    Hey there dude....glad to see you joined...you'll really like the comraderie (spelling??) here!!!!

    Besides that...It's nice to know that i'm not the only one in this rather large neighborhood!!

    I understand the whole supply and demand thing...however...I also think that the government should step in (MODERATELY) when it is something that is going to go deeper than the hardship of us poor folks pocket books!!!!

    Everything has it's checks and balances!!!! Unfortunately...if something doesn't give soon....these checks and balances are going to cause more substantial damage elsewhere!!! Like the company that has to pay more for there rep to fly all over the country, because the airlines raised the ticket price because the cost of fuel is up, so now, that company is going to raise the cost of their product that is for sale, and it is eventually going to trickle down to those that already can't afford to drive to work in order to make money to buy the groceries that are outrageously priced because it cost sooooo much in fuel for the trucks to haul the product to the store!!!!

    *ok...i'm off my soapbox now!!!! I just wanted to see everyone elses opinions on the matter!! Feel free to carry on...it is quite intersting!!!!*

    Roger
     
  35. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Fair enough. What EXACTLY do you suggest that they do?
     
  36. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    Well...I would think it would be a good start if they investigate if the the refineries that DO exist...are running at full tilt!! If not...then start pushing their thumb down on them to kick it up a notch!!!!

    They could also do a little manipulating of these "envirofreaks" that are causing it to be extremely hard for them to tap into the Alaskan resources...and if the refineries ARE running at full tilt...then lets have a little emergency session to bypass all this red tape B.S. (thanks to these so called enviro wankos) so that they can get these permits needed in order to get production going the way they want it!!!!

    Not meaning to get off another "debate", but...in my opinion...all these ienviromental protectionist need to understand that God and/or nature (whichever you prefer) is MUCH more powerful than mankind!!!!! I hate to bust your bubble...but...if nature and/or god (again, whichever you prefer) decides that we are no longer going to have an abundance of fresh air, or run out of natural resources of some sort or another...then there ain't nothin' us humans are going to be able to do to deter that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Talk about checks and balances...this planet has been around for thousands of years and I really honestly don't think me and you are going to play any part of what uncontrollable act of nature is going to happen next, or how it can be changed!!!!!!!!

    So that being said...I say we cater to something that we can control more so now, that is going to affect millions...as opposed to what a handfull of self righteous tree huggers are hoping to do for a hundred years down the road!!!!!!!!! If we are even here then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok...time to eat!! hope I didn't offend anyone, but I have to admit...it is interesting to hear everyones side of the story!!!!

    Roger
     
  37. PhilliePhan

    PhilliePhan Guest

    Bear in mind the self-righteous B.S. runs both ways . . . .
     
  38. theefool

    theefool Geekified

    As of right now, I spent $1.89 per gallon. Which isn't all that bad for me. When it gets to the $3 to $5 range I'll start worrying. Or just ride my Trek bicycle to work.

    For my car I have to use 93 octane.
     
  39. MrPewty

    MrPewty MajorGeek

    There is no God Roger.

    So we better look after what we have got. GWB wants to drill holes in Alaska so he doesn't have to ask you not to waste so much gas, and so his friends can maximize their profits. I'd rather you did without gas than allow drilling in Alaska, but I'm not Prez.
     
  40. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    Once again...everyone is entitled to there own opinion!!!!!!

    Roger
     
  41. ANHEDONIC

    ANHEDONIC Will Title For Food

    i'm too drunk to come up with anything intelligent to say.... but i will ask a question.... what are the perceived "drawbacks" to tapping into Alaska's resources? what exactly are the Democrats & Environmentalists concerned about?
     
  42. theefool

    theefool Geekified

    OOOPS... :)

    Looking at my receipt....

    $2.899, got 11.289 gallons $ 32.73. Thanks for checking up on me!

    08/15/05 Marathon

    Typically, I shop at Shell.

    Thanks for the link, btw.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2005
  43. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    Damn. I was all set to drive to Indiana tomorrow with about fifty gas cans. :(
     
  44. Sgt. Tibbs

    Sgt. Tibbs Ultra Geek

    Timely article went up on my local ABC affiliate tonight. :)

    Politicians Not Able To Impact Pump Prices

    Al Johnson was so frustrated with high gas prices, he had to do something.

    What he did helped hundreds of other people vent their frustration. He stood outside several gas stations Tuesday, holding a sign that said:"Honk If You Hate High Gas Prices." It was loud where he stood.

    "I'm having an impact" he told a reporter. "It's getting people's frustrations out." Many people frustrated over high gas prices blame politicians.

    Eddie Smith does. "The politicians are to blame" he said. That's a popular sentiment, but untrue.

    U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow concedes there is little, in the short term, politicians can do about high gas prices. "They're private sector, they're unregulated, and they can set what they want, and unfortunately, we lose as a result of that" she said Tuesday.

    Stabenow did say a provision in the energy bill just signed by the president does direct the FTC to investigate gas prices to make sure the oil companies are not conspiring to keep prices high.

    Still Stabenow, and a spokesman for Michigan's senior Senator, Carl Levin, concede most of the factors leading to high gas prices "are outside the hands of policy makers."
     
  45. MrPewty

    MrPewty MajorGeek

    Evening Star. Congrats on the raise. :) Thoroughly deserved, I'm sure.

    It's not trees so much as critters. There's an awful lot of animals use that wilderness in Alaska, and frankly, it just isn't worth disturbing them. No treehugger I, as most can attest, but I do draw the line at ripping apart thousands of Km^2 of pristine wilderness so Dick Cheney can stand up and say that Americans are not ready for conservation. He hasn't asked them.

    (It would not be too good for business Dick, eh?)

    There's nothing wrong with foreign oil, if you can afford it. Better than wrecking your backyard.
     
  46. MrPewty

    MrPewty MajorGeek

    Well Roger, what you say is true, but I think opinions like this one:

    Should be vetted before publication :)
     
  47. liberalghost

    liberalghost Specialist

    I couldn't agree more. I certainly could not have said it better myself.
     
  48. Jerkyking

    Jerkyking Sergeant Major

  49. fleppen

    fleppen Gumshoe

    prices are in €uro's and per liter.

    Gasoline (97 Octane) €1.439/liter
    Gasoline (99 Octane) €1.497/liter
    Diesel -> don't know
    LPG: €0.472/liter
     
  50. RexNoctis

    RexNoctis Corporal


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