Is Dieselgate the end of VW in the USA?

I'm talking about VW's latest scandal that fooled the EPA for years or the software used to make the VW's pass emissions testing but pollute up to 40 more times than allowed while cruising on the roads. I just don't have the same image of Volkswagen in my head anymore, after VW pulled a stunt like this. It's too bad cuz I like their cars, even if reliability issues worry me a little with them. I still might have a tough time saying "no" to a GTI or any diesel Vdub if the price was right :drool But I just don't know what the future is going to be like for them in Estados Unidos anymore

 

It's going to be a HUGE PR boondoggle, and if you think about it people were paying for an OBDII product which was supposed to comply with standards. I know the lengths I have gone to in order to make sure all my jalopies ran clean, up to and including Accel coils, higher amperage alternators, and even Pulstar spark plugs. This is purely environmentally irresponsible on the part of Volkswagen, pure and simple.

I will be putting the finishing touches on my PT Cruiser this week to bring it up to snuff, and it burns CLEAN. That's simply being responsible, and minimal environmental impact is the name of the game. It takes more energy to create a double bond and get carbon monoxide instead of carbon dioxide, so the tighter and more powerful the spark, the better. A nice clear, clean, hot catalytic converter doesn't hurt either...

 

I almost can't believe this. VW is the world's second largest automotive manufacturer. Now the company's shares dropped 31% over 2 days, and it's market value fell by $26 billion.
This is going to have a huge impact on VW's worldwide operations. And as always, the blue-collar workers will be the first to suffer.

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-vw-ceo-again-apologizes-scandal-widens-153539815.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

 

Yes.
If we only knew what's really going on behind the scenes at many big corporations...

 

The gif has really hit the fan at VW now. On top of everything else their CEO called it quits today http://www.dw.com/en/volkswagen-ceo-martin-winterkorn-resigns/a-18735341 Even though I remember what a big player they were in the USA back in the 60's when Beetle's dominated the place, they're quite small now compared to Japanese and Korean manufacturers who took over their turf. Last I looked they controlled about 3.5% of the market share in America.

 

I wonder in how many other countries VW cheated. :confused
Also, many of the turbo diesel and petrol engines used in VWs are also used by Audi, Seat & Skoda.
Big companies are like criminals... they avoid making the same mistakes made by others and then they make new ones.

 

I wonder how it'll be before someone says "No I wasn't speeding, my car computer says I was only doing 20mph" :-D

 

From what I heard here in La America, Audi and Porsche diesels are under investigation now. Skoda might be a problem elsewhere but VW never imported Skoda to America. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100167_epa-expands-vw-diesel-probe-to-audi-porsche-v-6s-all-diesels-to-be-tested

 

Oh, the irony. :-D

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...disaster-epa-project-caused-spill-in-georgia/

I predict some high fines, maybe a recall, and the short memory of the US will kick in and VW will recover.

 

Look at the Legal and financial repercussions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_common-rail_TDI_engine_emissions_scandal
The :crap is hitting the fan big time.

Also, the VW Group has a 100% share in Scania AB, and a 75% share in MAN SE - both manufacturers of buses and trucks... that run on diesel.

 

Quitting at the time of a crisis is like pleading the fifth...

 

There is no way for him to continue as CEO. He couldn't be trusted to prevent it, how can he be trusted to fix it?

 

True his name rests in infamy now. At least this scandal isn't going to cost any lives, unlike back in the 70's when Ford was well aware that the gas tanks on their Pinto's could go up in flames. But they had the bean counters there ran a cost/effective analysis for the old shytbox and concluded that even with the Pinto going up in flames after being hit, they'll still come out ahead fiscally if they just leave the gas tank alone. My oh my, how times have changed.

 

Nothin' like a "golden parachute". What a joke.

That money could give raises to a lot of worthy people who make Volkswagen work, instead of someone who helped bring the company down.

There were some issues with side mount gas tanks, and locking hubs on some trucks years ago too. A friend of mine was driving his Suburban at highway speed when the manual locking hubs, which had this habit of locking on their own, flipped on the Long Island Expressway at highway speed. Of course, GM denied any wrongdoing and it took years for him to win in court.

Sometimes I wish for the old days:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/

 

Just thought I'd throw out a good article I tripped over:

http://www.livescience.com/52284-volkswagen-scandal-clean-diesel-challenges.html


To be honest, the real problem with diesel is that we're still using petroleum. If they would switch to lipid based transesterified biofuel, there wouldn't be mystery contaminants.

 

That's interesting how VW owners will really get screwed on their diesels once they're repaired to comply with emissions standards, VW owners will wind up with slower cars that are less efficient too. While at least Benz owners have nothing to worry about since their diesels use a different method to destroy emissions with than VW. I can understand why VW chose their system but the problem is they didn't want to compromise it by producing slower, thirstier cars. I wonder how many other automakers are stuck with the same system VW is? That doesn't mean their cars are polluting though depending on how they engineered them.

 

Maybe I am thinking wrongly...
VW, emissions problems, great gas mileage and pretty good car.
GM ignition switch problems, crappy cars and a few deaths.

Ford Pinto, gas tank problems with rear end collisions,27 deaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto
GM trucks gas tank problems with side collisions, 2000 deaths.
http://www.autosafety.org/history-gm-side-saddle-gas-tank-defect

Which ones of these have you seen in the press as being serious problems?

 

Emissions kill, but the victims are hidden. Asthma isn't fun.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ot-so-harmless-and-could-damage-human-health/

 

It's a lot easier to figure out how many people were killed due to a Pinto's gas tank exploding than estimating how many people VW diesel emissions might have killed. Which is why it's just easier to charge Vdub with the crime of fraud than manslaughter. I don't believe anybody at FoMoCo had to worry about manslaughter charges back in the day of the Pinto.

 

And still no one notices that GM killed many times the people VW or Ford did?
Like Asbestos removal, sensationalism wins out over life saving.

BTW, that article is clueless, diesel makes no more NOx than gasoline when burned in the same way. Also nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide do not have the same name.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-dies...itrogen-dioxide-than-other-combustion-engines

 

DOA, you need to re-read the article.

Also, some of your provided info is dated. A good many modern diesel engines are 25:1, or in some cases higher in compression ratio. The newest fancy models will be hybrid turbo /supercharged models. And, biodiesel runs much cleaner, and it's a more certain formulation.

NOx is a generic term, and covers NO or NO2.

 

Problem is there's no way to measure how many people VW might have killed in the case of their diesels. Since that's the case, the real question is which automaker was more devious in all of these cases? Geez I can even go back to VW collaborating with Hitler, albeit Henry Ford was pals with him too.

 

The big truck manufacturers tried this a couple of decades ago and lost their $1 billion case. Part of that paid for developing the portable emissions testing equipment that caught VW.

 

Re-read the article, but pay special attention to the line "emit up to 40 times the allowable levels of air pollutants that are called nitrogen oxides (NOx), The New York Times reported". Clicking the hyperlink you find "but produced as much as 40 times the allowed amount of nitrogen oxide", not NOx, nitrogen oxide. A minor but important mis-quote.

"it's got chemicals in there and things that will burn that you don't always know what they are"
Any diesel delivered in bulk should be (and when I was involved always was) analyzed at a lab for all known elements. Its precise makeup must be known to prevent damage of multi million dollar equipment. If you buy from a reputable dealer you get that same pure diesel, with a spec sheet. Buy from Coke Bros and there is no telling what you will get. I don't buy Coke Bros gas either.

"many of them are rich in sulfur" Hillebrand said.
Sulfur is being phased out of diesel fuel; gasoline and diesel are now pretty much the same difficulty to refine.
http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/types_of_gasoline.html

"The thick, syrupy substance isn't much different from the oil pulled directly from deep underground". Ignorance or hype, you decide.

I will stop there, that article should not be used in any technical discussion, too much hype and mis-information.

 

Well, nitrogen oxide is a generic term just like NOx. Could mean any one of over a dozen compounds.

Despite standards and testing, every company out there uses a different level of detergency and not all fuels are exactly the same. When it comes to diesel, you've got sulfur content, cetane, and of course there's always winter blend or summer blend and is the grade 1-B or 2-B (vehicle or home). We've even got ULSD now. Additionally you've got B type blends which should not be heavier TAG oils, but transesterified lipids. Petrodiesel can also contain potassium, calcium, and even magnesium, all of which, as you know are monitored under ATSM specifications. The main advantage of biodiesel is that it's non toxic. With gasoline, ethanol as an additive has a nasty habit of attracting water. Too much water in your fuel is just plain bad either way, diesel or gas.

The context of the syrup quote seemed to me to mean the chemical composition of the components in the fuel. Metals, etc.

Bottom line is by the time it gets to the pump, you don't always know exactly what's in your fuel from station to station. I've got a local Shell station I plain quit going to..

 

While not criminally doing what VW did, it seems millions of diesel-engined cars are not as clean-burning as tests have shown.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...llution-in-real-driving-conditions-tests-show

 

This could be quite major though in terms of dollars or pounds, compared to the road tax you're subjected to in the UK. VW said repairs on the 500,000 vehicles will take years and that it's possible that the repairs might cost more than the value of the cars. http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/volkswagen-will-take-years-to-fix-cars.shtml

 

Perhaps we need to think about this in different ways.
Maybe do nothing about the cars, they are not unsafe in any way but NOx emissions. Take that total NOx emission and VW can pay for the same amount of NOx reduction in research. For a penalty the research must be shared. Or maybe their future cars have to pollute less for an equal offset.
Repairing the cars is a net loss all around.

 

Not for the owners, if their cars are penalized legally (or even banned from registration). Much of this is political, but it has a base in science. So we will see what comes.

While VW is a looser in this, it was their unethical actions that lead to it. The vehicle owners are a victim of a scam, and are blameless. They will likely bear the brunt of whatever falls out though, unless various government entities figure something out. I'm not holding my breath.

 

There's no way you could get VW to just ignore this issue now and do nothing about it. All that would do is dig VW even deeper and make them look even worse than they already are. That would be another major downfall for them that could even lead to the extinction of VW in the USA. Perhaps they could just close shop like Fiat did for a number of years after that and then after many years return to the USA. Other European companies that called it quits here and returned is Renault, since they own 43% of Nissan now, while Nissan owns 15% of Renault. I can't help but notice too how Nissan's vehicles just aren't what they use to be after they became partners with Renault.

 

Here is a different point of view;

[What if ] The German's had taken this to the next level?
Where by the ECM would detect an emission test > send a single to the satellite > which then reverts the ECM back to a legal condition.
In theory then they would be able re-flash all effected cars and no one would be the wiser.

I know, crazy talk, ??????

I do know one thing that is for certain. Certain people are paying big buck for an effected VW control module. :major

 

Agreed. And maybe we should look at the bigger picture.
While VW has betrayed owners and governments, the damage done to the environment is minor when compared to the CO2 emissions from the consumption of petroleum.
http://www.eia.gov/cfapps/ipdbproject/IEDIndex3.cfm?tid=5&pid=5&aid=8

 

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/vw-has-run-out-of-ideas.html

You either make history or you become history.