Weather

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Adrynalyne, Feb 20, 2005.

?

What do you think?

Poll closed Feb 25, 2005.
  1. The end times are near

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
  2. Global warming has caught up with us

    13 vote(s)
    31.7%
  3. Business as usual

    13 vote(s)
    31.7%
  4. Who cares?

    8 vote(s)
    19.5%
  1. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    This has become an interesting subject to me as of late.

    Tsunami in Indonesia
    Tornadoes and flooding in California
    Record snowfall in Texas
    Increase in Earthquake activity (in the news anyway)
    What do you guys think about the weather changes?

    Making my first poll ;)
     
  2. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    its only a matter of time befor time runs out
     
  3. animatress

    animatress Corporal

    Why the world is coming to an end.

    From the political standpoint The middle eastern unrest combined with the current and near future power shifts are just asking for big trouble. WW3 anyone?

    From the technological standpoint. The advances in technology are not of the Matrix caliber, but are exponentially increasing to its own self sufficiency.

    From the scientific standpoint. Creating life. How long will it be before we can create, “humans” which we will of course use as labor until they revolt Irobot style?

    From the environmental standpoint. Already discussed. Add unusual hurricane intensity and behavior.

    From human standpoint. Life expectancy is lengthened, but a slew of health issues, behavioral and moral issues are destroying us. Aids, cancer, stds, hiv, high blood pressure, heart attack, obesity, school shootings and stabbings, all pre-existing problems that are now on a staggering scale.

    From religious standpoint. See all of above and Revlations.

    Despite my ranting, I am not a pessimist! :)
     
  4. Maxwell

    Maxwell Folgers

    Errr...one minor point of detail here, Tsunami and earthquakes are not due to weather, nad no amount of global warming/cooling or otherwise would affect these; but you knew that anyway. :)

    Perhaps the news are better at reporting these things hence the influx of weather related news as opposed to anything else, i.e., nothnig better to report.

    Curiously, the Kyoto agreement is an attempt to cut down emissions that have some impact on the global temperature, but then again the US (supposedly the worlds biggest poluter) hasn't signed up to this. :rolleyes:

    Finally, aren't we all due for the next ice age? :cool:
     
  5. animatress

    animatress Corporal


    An ice age sounds nice. New scenery, everything so sparkly and...white, having to restart civilization...
     
  6. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest


    Pffft :p

    You knew what I meant ;)
     
  7. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Its only a matter of time before the natural evolution of the planets weather system changes for something we are not used to, this is a subject that fasinated me a few years ago, when all the talk was over the ozone layer.

    In a few articals I was reading at the time, one major thing was left out, volcanos and the muck and fine dust particals they throw up into the atmosphere, that like carbon emmisons must block and enlarge some of the ozone layer so to just blame cars, factories is a fallacy! ( or at worse a cop out or finding the true causes )

    as Adryn said at the start what lasting effects did the tsunami leave on the weather system as it did shift the planet to a small degree?

    Im not saying mankind and the industrial revolution hasnt had its part in changing the weather but at what percentage over the natural path of change does mankind have a hand?
     
  8. fleppen

    fleppen Gumshoe

    don't care, it snows :cool:
     
  9. sibeer

    sibeer MajorGeek

    I'm not completely sold on the human caused globle warming theory. This could be something out of our control, a short warming period before we're plunged into an ice age. The first ice age with technology, I can't wait.
     
  10. mispon

    mispon Brigadier Boingy

    Maybe we don't have a hand to change the course of events. Lord, I don't want "us lot" to have that sort of power ;). But we're speeding the whole natural process up, well, so 'they' say.

    China and India will be challenging the American 'title' at some point. I suppose we need to get them on board. It seems most big economies started off in manufacturing, (well, maybe India's going to be more 'customer care' ;) heh) which is going to cause polution. It doesn't seem fair to be promoting the 'American life style' around, and then we'll be limiting growth in these countries with pressure of "carbon tokens" or whatever the global community decides to do.
    It's not 'fair' that we got there first, we carried on, developing, with not a lot of regard or knowledge about what we were doing, or the long term effects.
    Things can't carry on like they are though, or they'll be big explosions, lots of light and the pixies will inherit the earth. The few big lumbering humans that are left will only be useful as cranes or something...

    My cat told me all this, he worded it better, but it's been a long week, so forgive my clumsiness.
     
  11. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

    Milliways

    :rolleyes: :cool:
     
  12. AbbySue

    AbbySue MajorGeeks Administrator

    You forgot the increased hurricane activity in the Atlantic Ocean;)...they are predicting the next 10 years are gonna be wicked...last season being just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  13. martinch

    martinch Specialist

    I know that there are people that disagree, but I think (along with many other people) the more ethanol we burn in our cars the less greenhouse gasses we produce. This will help prevent global warming (which I think is just a theory). Also for every gallon of ethanol we use it is one less gallon of gasoline we have to import from somewhere else. :)
     
  14. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    Isn't it breakfast at milliways? :p

    The history of the universe is terribly long and awfully difficult to understand, even at its simpler moments which are, roughly, the beginning and the end.

    The Wave Harmonic theory of Historical perception in its simplest form states that history is an illusion caused by the passage of time, and that time is an illusion by the passage of history.
     
  15. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC


    Ahh but the thing is ethanol requires more energy to refine, and so you get less "bang for your buck" in terms of oil.
     
  16. HUDIK

    HUDIK Sergeant

    I would believe every word your cat says.............actually a cat told me once:

    I am who I am not, and I am not who I am, but not absolutely.;)

    We are but tiny creatures, on a small planet, in an obscure area of our galaxy, and despite all of our 'scientific knowledge' don't have a clue what will really happen.
     
  17. martinch

    martinch Specialist

  18. Just Playin

    Just Playin MajorGeek

    :D :D :D :D
     

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  19. hithere

    hithere Staff Sergeant

    whoa.. I just realized something.

    both my yahoo password and MG password have something to do with armageddon!:eek::eek:

    But i'm not that pessimistic, (i hope). Nostradamus said that the world is gonna end in the 3700s. I forgot the exact year he said. wonder if that's true.....
     
  20. ArchAngel

    ArchAngel Sergeant

    I for one am all for global warming.

    The past few years in Minnesota have been rather nice. Not very cold like it has been in the winter, and not very hot in the summer. I can remember in the 80's having several 90 F + days. Last summer we had 2. It didn't even hit 100 F. I remember it being below 0 F for a month straight. Maybe a week in the past few years.

    If that is global warming, give it to me any day.:)

    I think scientists theories are too easily accepted as fact.

    They predict global warming and an ice age, when they can't even accurately predict if and when it will rain in Princeton, Mn tomorrow. They have no clue what will happen. But they have to keep coming up with crap so they can keep money coming in to support their programs. I don't mean all scientists are like that. Only the few wackos who the press manage to find.
     
  21. Tricky888

    Tricky888 Private E-2

    Guys,

    Can we get a little sense into this thread please. After all, you are a pretty logical bunch when it comes to your computers

    1. Global warming is happening
    2. Carbon emissions are a causal factor
    3. We are irresponsibly and un-necessarily emitting too much carbon into the atmsophere (Sorry yanks, but you are the worst offenders, and you just do not seem to want to get it. We do not need SUVs and permanent air conditioning).
    4. Do we know exactly how and when this will start to really affect us all seriously? No. But does that mean we should sit back and let it happen, because it will?
    5. Scientists are more often than not pretty responsible in all this. Archangel, please note it is more often the irresponsible media that find the wackier scientists or mis-report good ones.
    6, Maybe nobody really cares that much because the World could end tomoorow anyway e.g. large volcanic eruption such as Yellowstone.
    7. Kyoto may not be the best answer but it's a start. It is pretty obvious that Mr. Bush and his mates do not want to casue a recession in their precious oil business.
    8. Humans have created deserts and vast amounts of toxic waste. We are poisoning our seas and our air and our atmosphere. Isn't it time we did something about it?

    Thanks,
    Tricky888
     
  22. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Now who isn't using sense?

    One of the big reasons we don't get the cool cars that other countries have is because they won't pass emmissions.

    They pollute more than what is allowed here.

    Just to get the Mitsu Evo VIII, they had to clean up the emmisions a lot. Thats the 8th generation Evo. The first one we've been able to get.

    So no...we aren't the worst offenders.

    I can accept the rest of your post, but the yankees comment is unfounded, incorrect, and out of place.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005
  23. Noah Johnson

    Noah Johnson Private E-2

    Get China into the Kyoto agreement and maybe you will have an argument. Until then it's not a "world" agreement. Who was driving the cars that started the last ice age? Politics is not my thing but neither is getting dumped on by Euro-politikers. "Yanks" care more than you think.
     
  24. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest


    LOL, that struck me as extremely funny :D
     
  25. Tricky888

    Tricky888 Private E-2

    U.S.A. is the largest emitter of carbon, and uses up way more of the World's resources per head of population than anywhere else. Therefore, if anyone else in the World is going to be persuaded to do something then the U.S. needs to take a lead. It is not! In fact, the current bunch in D.C. have tried their darndest to deny global warming.

    We all need cars that do more to the gallon with emission controls, and more effort and money spent on alternatives. I think the most environmentally friendly commercially vailable vehicle right now is the Prius - Not exactly a Detroit mobile! Also a tax on aviation fuel, and a fair few other initiatives. Unfortunately, where your argument falls down is that if you burn more gallons you give off more carbon, and SUVs etc are more thirsty than smaller more efficient vehicles.
     
  26. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    http://www.aneki.com/polluted.html

    Oh yeah?



    Find some information to back up your stance.
     
  27. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Thats wrong too, if the emmissions equipment is more strict than on a smaller engine, in a different country.
     
  28. Tricky888

    Tricky888 Private E-2

    Am always happy to admit I am wrong. However, multiply 250 million people by your per head production of carbon and I think you'll find I am right. As I said, the U.S uses produces more carbon than any other country. Those other countries have about ten people each (o.k. slightly over the top, but you get my point)

    If you notice, the secon half of my sentence states that the U.S uses more of the World's resources per head. Again this is factually correct. You confused the two parts of the statement by equating my comment on carbon production total and the per head resources.
     
  29. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    On the same note, you miss my point.

    Per head, we are not the worst polluters.

    Therefore, the yankee comment was unfounded, because the only reason we would have the highest carbon emmissions (I did not do the math, I'll trust you) is because we are not a small country. Per head, we do a better part at pollution control than several countries.
     
  30. Maxwell

    Maxwell Folgers

    Ah, good old chaos theory. Also known as the butterfly effect - you know butterfly flaps its wings in UK means hurricanes in Florida. I suggest we capture these dangerous butterflys. :p :D

    One possible theory is: http://earth.rice.edu/mtpe/cryo/cryosphere/topics/ice_age/compare.html However, the three orbital parameters coinciding at a minimum do not necessarily mean an Ice Age will be triggered or present and there have been mini or little "ice ages" which are not coincident with these parameters giving rise to other factors/theories: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/understanding/iceage_01.shtml

    This was an interesting programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/bigchill.shtml
     
  31. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    I had a "doh" moment earlier on today.

    Alcohol isn't extracted from oil. Its fermented from plants and distilled.

    DOH!!

    Well, anyway, the energy that comes from ethanol per mole(1380kJ/mol if you're interested) is significantly less than, say, LPG, which is probably why it hasn't been developed so much as octane (well, 2,2,4 trimethylpentane if you're going to be fussy) and its fuels derived from it (i.e. petrol).

    And its molar mass is 46g, sowe can work this out to be 30,000kJ/kg.

    So, lets make an example out of this.

    1.a) A car which weighs 2.5Tonnes needs to travel a distance of 5km, at a speed of 35m/s (thats about 70mph). What is the power of the engine? How much fuel does it require to travel this distance?
    1kg of ethanol is 1.27 liters.
    The enthalpy of combustion of ethanol is 30,000kJ/kg.

    Lets convert some units. x = 5000m; mass = 2500kg; v = 35m/s;
    First, how long does it take to get there.
    t = 5000/35 =142s (or 4mins 9.6s)
    How much energy is required to keep it going at that speed?
    K.E. = 1/2 m v^2
    K.E. = 12500 * 35^2 = 15,312,500 J (or 15,312.5kJ)
    Find power by dividing it by time
    107,834W

    And so, if we need 15,312.5kJ, how much ethanol is that, in liters?
    First we find out how many Kg that is, by dividing 15,312.5kJ by 30,000kJ/kg
    0.51kg
    Times it by rho (1.27) to get the volume in liters.
    0.64 l

    b)LPG has an energy density of 4644kJ/kg
    How much energy would the same mass of LPG produce?
    0.51kg * 4644kJ = 23,68,440 J
     
  32. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    Bugger, last line is wrong: 0.51kg * 4644kJ = 2368.44kJ or 23,684,400 J

    Oh no, it gets worse, all my conversions are wrong. Just ignore that :p
     
  33. HUDIK

    HUDIK Sergeant


    You ever tried honey, water, and yeast, put in a jar with a lid, bury in a sunny spot in a hole in the ground in the forest, wait 2 months. When you dig it up you have 'mead' or some sick kind of sweet beer, but it has a punch that will knock your socks off..........[​IMG] .
     
  34. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get - Robert Heinlein.

    Weather changes. Always has. The Sahara desert was fertile at one time. Frozen mastadons far north of the arctic circle have been found with frozen tropical vegetation in their stomachs. At one time you could walk from England to France on the ice... MOST of the year. Not all that long ago, snow around London was unheard of.

    With a shorter scale, many recurring weather patterns are a lot longer than our attention span. The increased hurricanes in the Gulf area are due to a 30-40 year cycle - we're just getting back into the interesting phase of that cycle.

    Carbon dioxide is plant food, causing green things to grow better. Long-term, they'll eventually grow enough to swing the oxygen/CO2 balance back the other way. And global warming is STILL not proven, even after 30 years of effort. Much less how humans impact it.

    Consider: The massive earthquake that hit Indonesia a couple months ago released the energy of 475,000 kilotons (475 megatons) of TNT, or the equivalent of 23,000 Nagasaki atom bombs, in just a couple of minutes. That energy disapates as heat. Oceans are large, and the heat is spread out, but that alone raised the overall temperature of the Indian/Pacific oceans to some extent. Which will have some small effect on overall global temperature, at least short term. And there have been numerous aftershocks, all adding heat energy. And while rare, 9.0+ earthquakes are NOT all that uncommon. And have nothing to do with either man or global warming.

    Weather happens. For the most part, we're just along for the ride.
     
  35. martinch

    martinch Specialist

    I have to agree with G.T.
    "Weather happens. For the most part, we're just along for the ride."
     
  36. NewsFlash

    NewsFlash Corporal

    Don't know if it has anything to do with the weather, but is anyone worried about this new asian bird flu that the world health organization says is set to wipe out 95% of the human race within the next few years? Apparently we're all right on the edge of another mass extinction. Enjoy the free downloads while you can :)
     
  37. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Somewhat concerned. While the death rate from it has been very high, the number of people actually getting it has been pretty low. It has potential to be bad, but it's not catching on with humans all that well. If we can see it coming early enough, we can probably make vaccines to counter it, but that has to be predicted and planned for well ahead of time. And the mutation of that virus is just as likely to make it LESS likely to hit humans as it is to make it more of a threat. Right now, it's a big question mark.
     

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