Please help before I pull my eyes out!!!!

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by drmcgahey, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Just completed a new build (my first one...questioning that decision now).

    Athlon 64 3500+
    Asus A8V deluxe mobo
    2 x 512 ddr400 Corsair
    Thermaltake Purepower ATX 430 W
    Seagate Barracuda 80G Ultra 8MB cache
    BFG 6800GT Overclocked

    Running XP with all current updates through SP2

    Well, computer seems to run fine, but as soon as I run a program that's everly moderately graphics intense (just plain old BF 1942 right now), it crashes straight to desk top. Usually I'm just loading the game from intro screen and it crashes. Doesn't restart, no error message, no lag or locking, no program icon on the task bar, just straight to desktop.


    Video card takes one slot and 1 power connection only.

    I'm losing my mind trying to figure out what's going on with this thing. No one can seem to figure it out. Any ideas?? Could it be a hardware problem??

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. ~Pyrate~

    ~Pyrate~ MajorGeek

    are you sure you installed all your drivers? including the mobo, sound etc?

    could also be your graphics card is sucking too much juice out of your PSU be sure it gets it's own cord
     
  3. mcadam

    mcadam Major Amnesia

    confused as to why you put this post in hardware and software :confused:
     
  4. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    I honestly don't enough about the problem to know if it's a software or a hardware issue...or both. Not trying to cause trouble, just figured I would draw on more knowledge this way.

    As far as mobo drivers, have updated to most recent certified (non beta) bios. Audio card and video card drivers are also newest edition. No change.
     
  5. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Vid card has a dedicated cord from power supply.
     
  6. Wavetar

    Wavetar Sergeant

    Have you tried any sort of video benchmarking or diagnostic program to see if they can tell whether it's a hardware issue or not?
     
  7. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Does anyone have any suggestions for hardware diagnostic freeware?? Much appreciated.
     
  8. Turcoloco

    Turcoloco MajorGeek

  9. ~Pyrate~

    ~Pyrate~ MajorGeek

    you can also dl trial versions of 3DMarkXX and sisoft sandra

    also try memtest ... run it overnight and if you get errors than that's your problem

    how tight have you set your RAM timings? my sound card doesn't like the low timings of my RAM(2-2-2-5) and if set that low I can't do much of anything ... maybe this won't work for you but you might try loosening the timings up to 3-4-4-8 or so ... mine are set @ 2-2-3-6 and every now and again it does the same thing you describe but so rarely that i'm not too concerned
     
  10. mcadam

    mcadam Major Amnesia

    as pyrate said, run memtest - ram causes problems a lot of the time. also checking that cpu is fitted correctly helped. it does seem like a video problem though, i know the 6800 uses a lot of pus consumption but what you got there should be enough...
     
  11. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    also worth checking out are,

    What GFX driver version are you using, is it the one supplied with the card or one downloaded?

    Is DirectX working correctly, to check goto Start > run and type dxdiag which will bring up the diagnostics, click display and test Direct Draw and Direct 3d and see if those tests complete ok.


    latest version of DX is 9.0c
     
  12. PC Jedi Master

    PC Jedi Master Private E-2

    Didn't Nvidia initially recommend a 500 watt PSU? I believe they bumped it down after a while. You bought the card overclocked, right? I'm not sure what program you can use to do this, but you might try slowing the card down a bit to see if that helps.

    One more question, are you just trying BF 1942? Everyone has had crash to desktop errors in that game, it can be caused by several things!
     
  13. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    I notice the same thing ( Card Overclocked ) and had to search about those cards, initially supplied with a 20mhz overclock to standard cards, albiet that amount of OC shouldnt affect it but it may well do in this case, so Jedi Masters suggestion of turning the clock rate down to standard 350mhz or lower is a way to check.


    one way to access the clock adjusting frequencies of Nvidia cards is to use the Coolbits tweak which when you goto display properties of the card you will have a few more options one being the ability to adjust the Core Clock and Memory Clock speeds... only really need to lower the Core Clock.

    Coolbits 3D
    http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4375
     
  14. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Thanks for everyone's help.

    OK....update. Even though I had the latest version of VIA 4 in 1 drivers for my mobo installed (Asus A8V deluxe board), I reinstalled them (I had updated to the latest bios for my board, after installing new VIA 4in1) yesterday...these drivers contain AGP and so on for mobo. You likely all know that, but I didn't...fairly new to this stuff.

    Anyway, reinstalled latest 4in1 and then reinstalled DirectX 9c (did the tests and directx is fine). Comp. is much more stable now.

    No more crashing to desktop, but occassionally my system will just reboot in the middle of gaming. Have this hunch, like some of you do, that video card is the problem. Card has a dedicated power line from PSU.

    Don't know much about overclocking with vid card (my card is factory overclocked), but I know the bios in this case contains quite a number of presets (in small increments) , including auto and standard. Currently it is set to auto...by default. Haven't messed with these settings at all since I'm not sure what I'm doing.

    Any suggestions?? Will download some graphics stress programs you guys suggested and see how the card fairs. Thanks again!!
     
  15. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Just downloaded coolbits but don't want to mess with it without some guidance. Thanks!
     
  16. fiver22

    fiver22 Sergeant

    This might be *way* overly simplistic -but I had a similar problem with my GF Ti 4600: have you checked to see that it was being cooled properly? -In my case the fan on the card was choking up. -Just a thought.
    -522.
     
  17. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Looked inside while running. Turns out the fan I connected to the mobo isn't running at all. Other fan is running slightly slow (couple thousand rpm under). Fans on vid card are running well and not too much heat coming off card. Need to fix case fans though. Can someone please confirm what direction fans should be blowing/drawing?? Two fans...lower front and back chassis. Case is Antec P160.

    Thanks!
     
  18. InYearsToCome

    InYearsToCome MajorGeek

    ideally you should have more exhaust fans than intake fans--usually exhaust in the back and intake up front.

    it may be a power supply problem, but rule out the RAM first, and also check the morherboard to make sure its not touching the case in any places besides the standoff's, as that can cause shorting out.

    i just threw the 67.22 WHQL drivers on my BFG 6800GT OC (running at ultra speeds 400/1100) and they work great. a nice little performance/stabilitity increase over the 67.20's i was running.
     
  19. haroldmeyer

    haroldmeyer Private E-2

    I'm not sure if this is a hardware or driver problem. When I had this problem it was nothing more than "patching" my games to get them to work, I just went to File Planet or whatever place you use, got my game in question all patched up and ... happy gaming.
     
  20. fiver22

    fiver22 Sergeant

    This is a MAJOR problem. I'm surprised you aren't running into more difficulties. Fixing/replacing the fan should solve your problems by the sound of things.
    Yours,
    522.
    er, ps: all your fans should be working properly so your hardware can be cooled: otherwise you will see the symptoms that you have described.
     
  21. haroldmeyer

    haroldmeyer Private E-2

    He probably has the Asus Q-fan control option on, which shuts or slows down fans when the temp. gets to a certain degree.
     
  22. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Actually, one of the fans runs somewhat slow even on a cold start. The other is the fan which came with the Antec case...has a small wire that connects to the mobo...this fan hasn't worked from day one. I think I'm going to replace it with a good fan and bipass the mobo connection, just to concentrate on air flow. Still though, this comp. runs surprisingly cool.

    I'm learning a lot from guys and I appreciate it.

    One more thing. Like I said, I'm running the BFG 6800GT O.C. vid card. I know this card draws a lot of power and I'm wondering if my 430W ATX PSU is enough. With some games, the more I turn up resolution, detail, etc., the more often the comp. poops out. If you guys were going to build a machine with this sort of card, what would you use for a PSU?? Do you think this might be a problem? Thanks!
     
  23. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    No betas, but everything is updated and current from manufacturers' websites. Newest version of mobo drivers made the biggest difference, but I'm starting to think my PSU just can't cut it. Card has its own power. Recommendations on new PSU?? SHould I, and if so, what?
     
  24. ~Pyrate~

    ~Pyrate~ MajorGeek

    i like my antec and I hear enermax, PC Power & Cooling make good ones ... you might search the board for more recommendations

    although i do think 430w PSU should be enough ... depending on how many components, CPU you have
     
  25. fiver22

    fiver22 Sergeant

    I'm a wee bit shocked that more people aren't jumping on the fact that you have fans that aren't working: let me reiterate: probs you describe *can* produce the symptoms you have: take a look at your cooling. As for what fans should do what: Basically -if an Item is really hot (like cpu/gfx card -then the fans should be blowing out (IE: sucking heat away).
    case fans should do both: on one end they should bring cool air in -but on the other side they must blow exaust heat out. -Finding that 'good air-flow' is sometimes most easily achieved by having fans bring in cool air at the front of the case -and having fans push out hot air at the back of the case (this can be transposed to left/right...but you get the idea).
    If your mobo isn't being cooled then I would expect EXACTLY the probs that you are having.
    Yours,
    522.
     
  26. haroldmeyer

    haroldmeyer Private E-2

    In reguards to fiver22, what does your Asus Probe read as far as case temp and CPU temp?
     
  27. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Fiver22 is correct if your fans are either not woking or not working properly then random errors, lockups will occur especially when the pc is under load and getting hot.

    and again exactly right.. fans should be pulling air in at lower front and expelling it out the back, also if you have a messy inside with cables all over the place that will also hinder airflow and thus not allowing cooler air to pass over the warm parts.

    oldie but a good idea on how to tide the interior of a pc case up http://www.viperlair.com/articles/retired/int_antec.shtml
     
  28. InYearsToCome

    InYearsToCome MajorGeek

    i am going to say that it very well could be your PSU. Nvidia originally recommended at LEAST a 480w PSU to handle the 6800GT and Ultra, and later lowered the recommendation--since it technically does work with something smaller... just not too well. (this covers standard no name power supplies, since their rated wattage is not very accurate)

    i would recommend an OCZ Modstream or Powerstream, (450w or up) since they perform about as well as a PC Power& Cooling (best on the market) for half the price.... and they look pretty damn cool as well. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-154&depa=0

    however if you want something cheaper, Fortron makes great power supplies. Antec was a leader, but they've had some trouble lately.
    here is a 530w Fortron for a little cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-968&depa=0

    both of those PSU's will be more than sufficient running a 6800GT.
     
  29. Doby

    Doby Sergeant

    Hi,

    If they are VIA Hyperion 4in1 4.53 driver they won't work with sp2 you would need to reinstall the drivers and uncheck the apg driver and use the driver supplied with sp2.

    I would check to see if you are using 4.53 it looks like it could be your problem

    Rick
     
  30. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    Interesting....I'll check the version tomorrow (PC is at my office). Problems are happening even when comp has been on 5 mins. Asus Probe reads temps at CPU and in case (two probes) as cycling between about 100 and 104 degrees farenheit. Doesn't seem very hot from what I've read. I haven't been running the machine at all until I get it fixed. I have too much into it and don't want damage.

    I will check drivers and replace fan, tie up cords to allow more flow and report my results. If that doesn't fix things I think I'll spring for a new PSU.

    THanks again. You guys are great. REALLY appreciate the help.
     
  31. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    VIA 4 in 1 driver Package Service v4.49P3
     
  32. Doby

    Doby Sergeant

    I don't know what that driver is but I would upgrade to the latest via 4 in1, 455vp1 dated 25 nov 2004, I understand it gets around the sp2 issue.

    Your temp looks good. The ram you have is it a dual channel kit sometimes called a matched pair?

    Did you run memtest86 for at least 3 passes?

    Rick
     
  33. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    OK...updated to latest via drivers (4.55). No change. Installed another case fan...ive got cool temps and lots of airflow. CPU fan is spinning around 5500rpm and is cool.

    Thinking this is either PSU or vid card.

    PSU: when I first turn on my machine I can hear my fans and stuff slowing down gradually and then screen will flicker on in stages when XP/Windows logo appears on screen...almost like PSU is laboring. Only during start up...other times it's normal. CPU fan is also only spinning around 1500rpm and is being red flagged in the bios. Q-fan control is disabled so that shouldn't be a factor.

    Keep getting random restarts, and the occassional 'your computer has recovered from a serious error...do you want to send error report'

    Don't think my PC will stay on long enough to dl 3DMark, much less run it.

    Any more ideas??
     
  34. drmcgahey

    drmcgahey Private E-2

    One other thing. I was playing around with bios settings for the vid card. When I have the card set to auto (for overclocking) the computer posts and does its thing. I played around with OC settings....tried the card at 3% (obviously very low setting), 6% and 20%. When saving and restarting from the bios, the machine posted but then switched to black screen...and stayed on black screen. When I restarted back into bios and set to auto again, normal post and start up. Ahhhhhh...I should have bought an E-machine (joking).
     
  35. Doby

    Doby Sergeant

    I am not sure of your problem but with the above condition I would replace the psu before even powering on again and not take the chance. Seams like not enough volts or amps on 12v rail.

    Rick
     

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