Windows Vista Unnecessary

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by rafal, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    Okay with Windows Vista around the corner I would like to take this opportunity to give my two cents worth. I believe that Windows Vista is nothing more than a facelift for XP. With a prettier face and uglier code. I laugh when I hear about the "security measures" that Microsoft is implementing, which will by the way keep 3rd party security companies out. Now I'm not against Microsoft I use Windows XP on my laptop (Linux on my desktop) and it is an easy OS to learn. I see no need for Vista. Honestly why will people upgrade to Vista? Is it because Uncle Bill says so? Yes it looks pretty however that is only a superficial change. As always I welcome any opinions however please remember that this is purely my opinion and I am entitled to it.
     
  2. embrya

    embrya Private E-2

    I'm in agreeance with you. MS always talks about security measures blah blah. but they never really do enough. Just enough to keep the typical user (which is the majority of their consumer base) satiated. How will they be keeping third party security companies out? I haven't really researched Vista cuz like u i really dont care to upgrade. I actually wanted to stay with WIN2K, lol..but i grew to like xp pro. Will these new "security measures" block third party firewalls/av/etc?
     
  3. Natakel

    Natakel Guest

    I pretty much agree. I'm not sure of the code point, but XP is a perfectly fine OS, and having been around for some years has a lot of the bugs worked out. Heck, I am still using Win98SE on an older PC of mine - though since they stopped supporting it last July I will probably upgrade to XP on it.

    I've never been one to rush out and upgrade to the newest OS. I never used Win2000, having 98 untill I bought a PC with XP installed. When I built my system I bought XP pro for it. Granted, XP is a way better OS then 98 - but I wonder how much better Vista is compared to XP? Perhaps much better, but I like the way XP works and will probably stick with it till MS stops supporting it - then upgrade. Might be cheaper by then!
     
  4. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    As much as I like XP, Vista is better code and much more secure though painful if one installs many apps. I have used Vista/Longhorn since near the beginning, though you have to think of the regular user. I think that Vista users will be better protected . I don't believe that that MG etc. users would be better off using Vista unless they had a specific use for it.

    I'll stick with XP as it does all that I want and anyways, I can't afford Ultimate. If you have a specific need, then buy it.
     
  5. viper_boy403

    viper_boy403 MajorGeek

    I hear ya man, i really think its pretty unnecessary, at least for an upgrade. if you're getting a new PC by all means go for Vista but unless you're a hardcore gamer and you "need" to have directx10 then IMO its not worth it. Im sticking with XP :p there are some nice extra features and stuff, such as no-reboot updates (thank god lol) and other things but its mostly convenience and cosmetic changes
     
  6. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    LOL, I couldn't get this in in time before the inevitable.:rolleyes: Check this out first. It's only a start with a BSOD in between. Start at 10 min or so, it's MS spin before that. I think Vista has lots of potential, beyond anything that we thought we could do.:) I believe it's RC1 at this time.
     
  7. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    Windows Patch Guard will stop third party Anti-Virus programs from accessing the kernel (however vendors that Microsoft chooses will have access to the kernel).
    However a new twist is that the Patch Guard has been circumvented.
    http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2167387/security-vendor-circumvents
    What a suprise Microsoft Software with a hole? Is the World coming to an end? I think not.
     
  8. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Must be Microsoft bashing week, really getting tiresome these days :rolleyes:

    Either use their products or dont, your not forced too. Bash them with no good reason apart from following the flock, is poor.

    This time they are doing more in the security area with Vista and sadly getting harpooned by the 3rd party security companies that have made a serious fortune over the years because MS have had holes and various vunerabilities in their operating systems, so now they close many of those and introduce some additions in the form of UAC/UAP and nailing down the core kernel in UNIX type form, they are being now attacked for doing so because certain large security companies are too damm lazy to re-program their virus scanners core program to fit around Vista's updated kernel.... :rolleyes: "Dammed if you do and Dammed if you don't" then the sheep just follow the flock in damming them also without using the app first hand or just reading someone's fud and agreeing with it because it is the "cool" thing to do!!


    Many said the same about XP when it was first released as an upgrade to 98SE or ME.

    Having used Vista, for a long time similar to Augie, I find it much more preferable to XP, easier to use once you get around the initial learing of where stuff is ( same as the changing from 98/ME to XP ).

    I've been using on the laptop I use for home and work with no issues at all. Yes I feel its not fully 100% finished and I do not like certain parts of it, but I would say the same about 100% of software released anyway as software is always never finished and always evolving.
     
  9. embrya

    embrya Private E-2

    Is this WPG an option or something u can't change about vista? i currently use mcaffee (i get it free since i'm a DOD employee (army))
     
  10. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    Can't change embrya. Halo I agree with you people shouldn't bash Microsoft. They are succeeding in a really though industry. I just don't think Vista is necessary. However I sense that people are finally getting fed up with the monopoly M$ has hence "MS always talks about security measures blah blah. but they never really do enough." I believe that linux and open source are the future. GO OPEN SOURCE.
     
  11. embrya

    embrya Private E-2

    i wasn't really bashing. just tellin the truth. i generally take security into my own hands since they don't do enough. the main reason i still use windows is because i'm too lazy to use linux, lol. granted that's a horrible reason but for now i'm a windows fan because of it's simple ease of use. but for my own personal taste they just have never really made major changes. just enough to keep the average users satiated...which i mentioned earlier. also i don't really like the one-stop shopping approach that ms takes on users. they just expect u to use every product that they make and say screw everybody else, hardly giving you a chance to make the decision (internet explorer,windows media player)
    so relax a bit halo before you go through an indepth breakdown of such a simple statement. just because i didn't include supporting text behind it doesn't mean i'm just a poor lil blind sheep following the crowd. ;)
     
  12. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    I agree with what's being said.:)
     
  13. Phantom

    Phantom Brigadier Britches

    Vista has made many improvements, i.m.o., especially in terms of security, as mentioned, and general efficiency of kernal code and execution. I quiet like it, myself.

    Bottom line, is - using Vista, as with any O.S. is optional. No one is twisting your arm to use it. Either utilise the app, or move on to something more suitable. To say Vista is "only a cosmetic change", is just plain wrong. :rolleyes:

    As with all O.S.'s, it is advisable to use it in conjunction with other third part apps, especially in the security areas. Keep in mind, because it's a new O.S., it will take a while for many third party programmers to keep up, but it's hardly Microsoft's fault.
     
  14. Jazagod

    Jazagod Command Sergeant Major

    think i'll stay outta this one:cool:
     
  15. star17

    star17 MajorGeek

    Agreed with Halo, the MS bashing is like watching an episode of Knight Rider for the 10th time...you just can't help but wonder why you did it. ;)

    Industry leaders and dominators always face constant ridicule and jealousy; at least Bill Gates is a helluva lot more of a humanitarian than say, Donald Trump when it comes to sharing the wealth.

    I've yet to meet anyone that wasn't introduced to computers on a Windows system. And I always get a chuckle out of the those that go over to the "dark side" of Linux thinking it's the Firefox of operating systems. A week later, they give up because it's like trying to drive on the UK side of the road. ;)
     
  16. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    not creating a conflict but just adding the devils advocate viewpoint

    Trust me I'm seriously relaxed today, actually most days I am, as I love my job and its non-stressful enviroment, BUT question.... have you used Vista to make statments on its usability and incorporated components? *only curious*


    Not the case with Vista, they give you the option of setting your own defaults if you wish ( nice fancy menu to set these options too ) and even in XP you can use whichever application you wish, be that Firefox, Flock, Opera, WinAmp etc so they never forced you in reality into having to use their products, all though I will agree if you wish to update via Microsoft Update or Windows Update online its not easy if your not using IE.

    The security issue and the opening of the kernel is a different beasty and certain companies are worried of their monopoly is disapearing "IF" indeed Vista is more secure ( time will tell on this BUT I always have run with the doctrine of never trust security in full to any OS, part of it and the main part is in the hands of the user ), the kernel for x64 Vista has been opened up to companies asking for it in working with MS, Grisoft, Kaspersky and AWIL all have AVs that work with Vista already... sad thing IMHO is Symantec and McAfee the two major monolopies in AVs really wanted to just add some new GFX and new version name to their already working in XP apps and sell them on to the unsuspecting public as NEW, hence their publishing in Symantecs case a large report on a vunerability in Vista that was from a 6 month old beta version, in which the version subsequent to that one the said vun was fixed, McAfee had a full page spread in many newpapaers, stating similar.

    Just gets very suspicious when the other half of the AV Security world are saying different to the 2 big boys!


    Interesting debate in what people perceptions of Vista is from whats either just been read or from actual usage of the software, many who use it actually do like and prefer it over XP, a natural evolution in the OS I guess, but like XP I am imagining its only going to really become better with SP1.
     
  17. embrya

    embrya Private E-2

    ok. just checkin because u sounded a bit hostile, hehe. no, i haven't used it. i wasn't actually talking about vista. i was speakin on MS windows in general. if you REread my original post u'll notice that i said i hadn't "really researched it because i have no desire to upgrade". come on man. y keep quoting me if you continue to miss peices? even the first statement u partially quoted still doesn't directly attack vista. like u said, u either use it or u don't. regardless who the statement comes from pretty much everything in this thread is an OPINION. why is it such a big issue? like i said before i'm not a follower by any means. i do like back off approach u mentioned that MS is taking with letting you use the apps of ur choice. but that in itself really isn't a good reason nor will it ever be to upgrade. xp suits me just fine. might even eventually switch to a system like linux just so i can do EVERYTHING my own way.
    sure it's easy to set the "preferences" inside xp but they don't always work that way. there have been times when i launch a certain help file and ie opens automatically. i know for a fact I didn't choose that. if ie wasn't so embedded into the system i would do the manual uninstall.
    in the long run the only way i'll b upgrading to vista will be for the same reason i went with xp and that's if i buy a brand new laptop (probably another asus since i love them now) and the no longer ship with xp or just wont' allow me to change the os i get installed. more than likely i may end up just building my own laptop the next time and keeping my current windows.

    on a side note where can i get kaspersky? i was told by a paranoid freako friend of mine that it stops things that all the other avs miss.
     
  18. acejones

    acejones A Different Title

    I just placed an order for a Dell D820 for Vista encryption testing here at work. I'm actually kinda excited about Vista. Updated kernal, better security, etc. I don't listen to all the blowhards out there questioning Vista in their blogs...they gotta get people to read the blog somehow...what better way than to blast the next Windows verstion?
     
  19. ItsWendy

    ItsWendy MajorGeek


    Actually, a lot of coders started with something other than Windows. Remember the Atari, C64, Trash 80, and more? It is a trick question though, because 2 out of 3 listed had M$ BASIC as their OS. Commodore had something called GEOS developed for it, and it is a Windows style GUI (well, almost). I wouldn't qualify DOS as Windows, although we all know they were linked pretty tightly in the beginning. My initial impression (and I've never really changed it) is Win 3.1 was a fancy menuing system in the beginning.

    I am more of a user than a coder nowdays. The only thing I really care about is will my apps work, which is one of the reasons I still use Win98SE. I'm trying out XP on several computers, but from what I've seen it can make the computer slower. I hate the built in assumtions, and turn them off as quickly as I can figure out how. I understand the need to rename stuff that is actually different, but MS spends a lot of time reinventing the wheel. Until LINUX actually can run a lot of the old Win98 stuff though, I'll have to stick with MS.

    Something a lot of folks have trouble understanding, it is the library of software and data that is valuable, more so than the computer. If I upgrade, I want that collection to move up with me. I still have gigs of Commdore 64/128 software, and actually power up the old machine (flat 128) now and then.

    The VISTA compatible hardware stuff has me slightly concerned, but I'll take a wait and see attitude on that one.
     
  20. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    Have any of you lot complaining actually tried Vista?

    I agree, it's not perfect. It's not as good as it was originally hyped up to be. BUT in my experience it is better than XP by a fair way. True, it's bloated - true it has some crazy minimum specs to get all the eye candy, but it *is* functional.

    I've been running a radio station on a Vista PC. It's never crashed on us yet - only badly coded software has crashed.

    As for Linux - it different. You can't really deny that - and it takes some getting used to. The learning curve is a lot steeper than with Windows, as you are in complete control from day 1 (most of the time). And if you screw up, you screw up! Unless you've got the software, there is no Restore Point. You need to know what you're doing. Unfortunately most modern computer users don't want to know what they're doing, and so it's not doing so well.

    Oh and since when was MS BASIC an operating system? And since when did Atari's use Microsoft OSes???
     
  21. theefool

    theefool Geekified

    There are games out there that have a higher demand then what vista requires. :)

    I've been using Vista since beta 2, and I really prefer it better than XP. Why? I can actually navigate vista faster than I can navigate in XP.

    I love the new explorer, though it did take me awhile to get use to it. The new taskmanager is wonderful.

    On a side note, after watching speed pool for 3 hours last night, I decided to see how fast I can sink in 15 balls on my pool table. So, I went downstairs, started my Fedora Core music computer. Low and behold, 46 updates needed to be downloaded and installed.

    So, why do people bash MS, adding $'s in their names, when they can do the same thing to other companies. Adobe, Apple, etc.

    Individuals have benchmarked vista and noticed it was slower than XP. When xp came out, they did the same thing, and stated it was slower than 98. Over 5 years ago, I heard the same old bashing of MS. The same old complaints as I hear now. I'd think by now, people would have become more mature. (I am not making the assumption that individuals here are immature. Just a broad statement of a lot of internet users out there.)

    Of all the haters out there. It is only a small percentage of individuals, compared to the whole.

    But, once again, this is my opinion, humble that it is. :) Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

    Sorry for my random/wandering thoughts.
     
  22. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    You either like it or you don't...which I do!!

    You either use it or you don't...which I do!!

    In MY opinion...all this bashing crap starts from the jealousy of an extremely smart and successfull individual!! He obviously did something right in order to be where he is now!! Granted, he does have a LARGE share of the market...however, why is that a bad thing!?!?! And I would be safe to bet that a large majority of this "M$" bashing is done on a windows system of some sort!!

    If you (and I use "you" in general terms!!) are so sure of how terrible it is, and you claim you know WHY it is so terrible...then why don't you come up with something that's better, and maybe "you" will become a wealthy/successfull individual, and then everybody can bash you!!

    So I think that these bashers need to get off their high horses, and if you don't like Italian food...then don't go to an Italian eatery for dinner and bitch about the food not being good!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Granted...you are entitled you your opinion, but...I'm sure you will find that "your" opinion will stand ground more firmly when it is backed up by experience and SOLID research...not just by hopping on the band wagon that just happens to ride through the grapevine!!!!

    Roger
     
  23. Lev

    Lev MajorGeek


    Hmmmm...so maybe I should try Linux too, cause I'm getting pretty good at this driving on both sides of the road (not at the same time, I hasten to add ;) )
     
  24. Natakel

    Natakel Guest

    To Halo . . . Point well made, sir . . . use the OS and quit bitchin' - or find (or create) something better . . .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2006
  25. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Come next Jun. 1, I'll be suffering from Vista withdrawal pangs and that will be tough to bear. Hmm, I thought I couldn't afford it at first(I will not buy home basic) but if I cut my pizza and beer budget in half, I'll have it just in time. It will be good for my waist too!:)

    BTW, I keep saying this but HP better get a move on, I'm getting antsy for drivers! OK, mini rant over. ;)
     
  26. theefool

    theefool Geekified

    I agree there.
     
  27. bigbazza

    bigbazza R.I.P. 14/12/2011 - Good Onya Geek

    Can you expand on your comment on "many apps"?

    Is it based on the number of apps, the size of the apps, the resources they use, or a combination of all, in Vista?

    I've got 56 programs in my "Keepers" Folder, where I like to install stuff, rather than C:\Program Files.

    I use C:\Testing while I am testing programs then install them in C:\keepers when, and if, I am happy with them.

    I like to keep Program Files as lean as possible, although some programs INSIST :p on loading into c:\program Files. Bazza

    ===

     
  28. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    @ embrya ~ sorry if my post came off sounding hostile as it was not ment to and I do goto great lenghts to stick on the titled topic without trying to attack anyone, but to pick some points out to debate it is necessary to quote some text, to elaborate on at times, guess its trait of mine in having to debate many topics in work.. ones that in the majority never end up with a resolution, one in particular ( wont bore you with details ) has gone on for 14 months.

    to your other question

    Kaspersky Anti-Virus Personal ( trial )

    but also have a read of this as it has some really good tips and free software for protecting your PC How to Protect yourself from malware!

    and hope you have a great and safe weekend ( noteing you are in iraq ) :)


    Now back generalising at no-one in particular.......

    As this topic was entitled Windows Vista Unnecessary I would assume the posts in it would be on topic to Vista opposed to having a pop at MSFT in general, which I would have liked as a new OS is a bit of a big deal to many who use PCs daily, as personally I would love to hear objective ideas and opinions to what people feel is coming and if members had used it what they like or dislike ( many opinions from some here who have been testing it I do know what they feel about this OS ) as if someone has a fear or question on Vista but not used it, then maybe a member who has used it can shed some light on the question and dispel some myths, as their are many myths out their, case is point the EU commission thinks that IE7's search is locked to MSN Live and cannot be changed... Mmmmmmmmm, kinda guess they should have tried it before going with that!!



    Their are aspects of Vista I do still dislike and have fedback my comments to MS, wether they were acted on or not in the grand scheme of things who knows, but what I do know is this time MS did listen to users opinions and changed quite alot of functions to suit the majority of the testers comments in many areas, last one was the EULA as their was a long few threads in the VistaLonghorn testers newsgroup on this subject.

    Sadly and its a fact of life, no matter what they MSFT release or any other OS developer for that matter, their OS or Software is not going to suit or meet the expectations of everyone, me included.

    All this speculation and hesitation also happened for Win95 and XP... both now or were very good OS's, I have no reason to doubt that in time Vista will become the same.

    XP also had a boat load of trouble at first with hardware driver and software compatability when it was the sucessor to Win98, however this time we not only have x86 compatability to contend with but x64, which for me I will have to wait for 1 3rd party hardware company to get its finger out and write a compatible driver. I know that come Jan 07 this and many other forums are going to be awash with many questions on software, HW Driver support and questions on "how to's" when users migrate to Vista.... but if your HW is supported and do check before even contemplating Vista, I know after the initial.. "ahhhhh I dont like this, XP was not or didnt do it like this" questions, many but not all will find it easier to use.

    I hear you Augie and theefool on HP as the drivers for my Compaq laptop will come from them for x64 Audio driver in particular.


    I just hope we can stick to debating Vista and is it necassary opposed to bashing MS which is futile.. kinda like Intel vs AMD et al debates, me I'd rather have a beer and be done with it as whatever you choose and are happy with is all good :)
     
  29. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Hear hear Halo and well said, especially the last line about beer.:) Ya know I crab a lot for not having drivers, mainly because I have to reboot into XP, but with RTM supposedly being out next week, I hope there are many new drivers available at that time. I saw somewhere that HP would not release drivers until RTM, be it now or in Jan. I guess I'll just have to be patient 'cause I haven't paid for Vista yet. Hmm, I wonder what 5840 has but I can't get that one on connect.
     
  30. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    I agree and I have harped on about the pittiful lack of drivers as well as its a fair assessment of the situation at present and this lack of driver or software support cannot full ybe laid at the door of Redmond, pretty poor showing from the major 3rd party devs on adopting and developing drivers for Vista be that x86 or x64, and personally I like x64 but without sound, its un-usable really.

    I have hear the same on HP and a few others in that they are not going to produce working drivers for Vista until its released on 07.... OH COME ON, thats way way too late they should have at least betas now, many others have, in realty if they start producing or releasing drivers in Jan 07 it will be July/Aug 07 before they have actual non-buggy working ones :rolleyes:

    It would have been majorly wise of them to release then now while they have the techbeta communities attention to fully give them a workout and hit the ground running with well tested by thousands of users a driver that will work great for the many users who will take up installing Vista in JAN, now those users will be beta testers for said drivers!

    Nope on 5840 on connect but noticing some MS employees who post on the NG in that they are using version 6000 :)
     
  31. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Yup, it's been released internally at MS.:)

    Ya, I don't understand either. Some good news at least for ATI users, there are a few drivers now available though there is still no CrossFire or OpenGL support. It's getting there.
     
  32. theefool

    theefool Geekified

    Besides, the HP driver issue, I still had creative issues, using onboard sound now, unfortunately. :(
     
  33. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Is Vista necessary? Heck no. Neither is XP or even Windows. If you don't want it, find something that suits you better.

    If you can.

    My biggest concern (now that MS has backed off on it's one motherboard change limitation) is the same as every new operating system. Drivers from 3rd party hardware makers, and software compatibility. I've still got an old scanner that worked great in Win98 but doesn't work in XP because the maker never wrote drivers for it.

    64 bit operating systems should be as big as advantage oveall as 32 bit was over 16 bit when Win95 came out. And it's not like 64 bit environment is coming as a surprise to anybody. But it's always a question as to what OLD hardware will be supported, and what old software/games won't work in the new OS.

    I don't feel any itch to jump onto Vista right away, but will definitely switch eventually, once the dust settles and everybody figures out what will and will not be supported. XP is working just fine in the mean time.
     
  34. Jazagod

    Jazagod Command Sergeant Major

    GT, you said it perfect!
     
  35. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    Thank you Halo. This topic was going off topic. I stated that Windows Vista was Unnecessary and it turned into a "HAVE YOU TRIED IT"/"DON'T BASH M$" (oh and I use M$ to describe Microsoft because M$ is a big rich company hence the $ not to "bash"). As a side note M$ isn't all bad:
    http://www.forbes.com/home/enterpri...rce-microsoft-tech-enter-cz_dl_1102linux.html
    Basically to quote out of there
    "Microsoft has spent ten years bashing the free-of-charge open-source Linux operating system and trying to kill it. Now Microsoft is making nice."

    So back to the topic. Can anyone give me a good reason for a new Windows System? Just because we need a change is not a good enough reason. Can anyone tell me what they can do in Vista that they can't do in XP or XP64? I use my XP for internet, word processing, the occasional spreadsheet and one or two games (Rome: Total War kicks ass). XP Works fine, it's stableish and Vista is unnecessary. Can anyone (without telling me to stop bashing M$ cause I'm not) convince me that Vista is really necessary? :rolleyes:
    I know alot of people will change to Vista just because it's the latest thing.
     
  36. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Heck, a lot of people change cars just because it's the latest thing.

    No specific operating system is "necessary" until you want to run something that won't run without it. There are still some mission-critical business systems running Fortran. Where I work, we were running NT4 until just last October, and only upgraded then because the suits at the top decided to switch from an AS400 based system to SAP, which is Windows based, and wouldn't run on NT4. 30 million dollar a year distribution company with almost 200 employees, not a little mom & pop shop.
     
  37. Maxwell

    Maxwell Folgers

    Any operating system upgrade is not necessary initially if you have products that perform the work that you want. However, the manufacturers of products would stop supporting older products as they keep up with technology and the competition. It becomes too much of an overhead to support numerous varieties of products and configurations. Once support for your products stops you either look for something that would be supported on your old system or be forced into an upgrade.

    You would usually expect an overlap window of time whereby both the old products (including OS) and the latest and greatest products are supported (at both software and hardware level).

    However, business competition being what it is can also enforce upgrades whereby the company you work for or that which supports your products wants to steal a march in the business arena, i.e., trying to be ahead of the competition.

    Business decisions on upgrades need to way up the decision to upgrade in terms of cost, benefit, business viability, etc. against using something that is in its infancy and may require a lot of nursing to make it viable to use. The whole process for an upgrade has many considerations that are really too much to do justice in a short response here. For example consider a large company (say around 50,000+ desktops with 100s of applications) an upgrade is not to be taken lightly whereas take your average home user an upgrade decision is entirely different.
     
  38. rogvalcox

    rogvalcox MajorGeek

    For your basic computing...no it isn't necessary. If what you are doing on XP suits you just fine...then apparently XP is just fine!! You say your into a couple of games (not a gamer here) so if they work great on XP then again...it's fine!! I do know the gaming world is anticipating Vista and the new Direct X 10 for it's greater graphics capability, so again, until you get into a game that requires the features of Vista...then you are fine with XP!!

    Me on the other hand...I'm a sucker for new things, and fancy and revamped GUI's!! Even though I have been using Vista for a bit already...I will buy it as soon as I can figure out how to squeeze it in between paychecks!!!! BUT...I don't NEED it by ANY means...not yet anyway!!

    Roger
     
  39. bigbazza

    bigbazza R.I.P. 14/12/2011 - Good Onya Geek

    Hijacking this thread slightly. Best of luck with SAP, G.T.
    Your company employees will need it.
    Bet "they" switched over at a specific date that the beancounters decided, and not one when the education and training was sufficient, or complete.
    That's been my experience in 3 SAP implementations, in multi-million dollar companies, here in Queensland. Bazza

    ===

     
  40. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Question: Is Vista Necassary?

    Answer: Yes and No

    Yes as in it moves OS development forward and does introduce many new options, security, ease of use, very small new apps that make the PC experience better ie. Snipping Tool, but their are many new items that help the novice to geek in Vista.

    No as in its not needed to go about your daily PC business no matter what you use your PC for, be that surfing the net or using Office products as the previous OS's are fine for these tasks.


    I know I maybe able to get this through work as we have access to getting MS stuff for postage price only, as part of MS HUP/Corporate/Enterprise options, so I will most likely migrate to Vista as I have like Augie been part of the MS techbeta testing team on Vista so have had many many versions to bug test and I do like it.
     
  41. G.T.

    G.T. R.I.P February 4, 2007. You will be missed.

    Right on the money Baz. We went live with only 6 months of "testing", which wasn't NEARLY enough. Most companies seem to need a year to prepare. Then implemented SAP's shipping module with virtually NO testing. Pathetically inadequate user training. User interfaces weren't optimized for the various functions, bugs and problems out the wazoo. Darn near killed us. Horribly UNintuitive routines to accomplish the necessary, many many errors. Shipments didn't ship, or split up into multiple shipments (and freight charges), or shipped to the wrong addresses. Invoicing was wrong several different ways. Took three times as long to do anything. Purchasing didn't get notified of what needed buying and their FAXed P.O.s to vendors didn't actually FAX, and they didn't realize it, so we weren't buying ANYTHING for a time. Stock levels went to hell, customers didn't get their stuff, and didn't pay their screwed up bills. Darn near ruined us. Still not fun to use, and still not 100% reliable, but we're doing better with it. Still haven't recovered to pre-change levels, in either efficiency or customer satisfaction. This change cost us a LOT of customers. I''d like to personally castrate whoever approved going live with it. :mad:
     
  42. bigbazza

    bigbazza R.I.P. 14/12/2011 - Good Onya Geek

    Sorry to hear that G.T., although it doesn't surprise me. It happens everytime.
    Bet those who approved it, got promoted.
    That happened in my last SAP company install. :p Bazza

    ===

     
  43. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    I'm rather new to this whole forum thing what does it mean when you Hijack a thread?:eek:
     
  44. mgpower0

    mgpower0 Corporal

    Just means to go off the topic of the original thread
     
  45. rafal

    rafal Private E-2

    Oh do by actually asking the question "What does it mean when you Hijack a thread?" I was inadvertently hijacking my own thread. :D
     
  46. Triaxx2

    Triaxx2 MajorGeek

    I have to say, I'm a little excited, about Vista, and a bit worried. This comes from the fact that I'll be making a jump of two-three total versions. From 98 all the way to Vista.

    So, I'm excited about the update, but I'm worried. I didn't upgrade to ME, or XP, because of the compatibility problems with older games, which I'm a grand fan of. However, with every single new game requiring XP, or better, I'm having to upgrade so I don't stagnate.
     
  47. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi Triaxx

    While I dont know the age of your PC hardware, I'm just sumising at its age as you mention using win98 still ( a damm fine OS imo ), so if its older hardware you're using I would run the Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor RC to see if you may run into any issues.

    If your a games player I would be really tempted to either have 1 PC with win98 or XP ( depends on what OS peeps have ) and 1 updated to Vista or possible Dual boot if you only have 1 PC.

    Reason I seriously doubt many older games will run correctly or even if the developers are creating patches to update them ( depends on how popular the game is or if they have new sequal due )

    Depending on how old or compatible hardware is with Vista, a "new" PC is a possability... not good but progress comes at a price sadly and in the tech industry it zipps by as we all know at the speed of light!
     
  48. Natakel

    Natakel Guest

    Hello, Triaxx

    I too am a fan of the older games . . . and I agree with Halo that Win98 is still a darn good OS. I still use it on one of my older PC's - but I have become worried about security since MS stopped supporting it last July.

    Oddly enough, I was able to get a copy of the original Doom game (the version put out to run within Windows - not DOS) to run on an Xp Machine by setting it to run under Win98 compatability mode, but had a problem getting it to run on Win98 itself . . . :confused: This may have been a hardware issue - I never tried to figure out why. But anyway - I have several older games that run just fine under WinXP. Most by setting them to Win98 mode, and a few that needed to be patched also. Patches exist for many classic games . . . either by the creator or third party efforts (for really old games).

    XP is a wonderfull OS - and I have no doubt that Vista will be better still. I am just not in a hurry to upgrade, as XP is still supported and works just fine with the applications and programs I use from day to day. Another good point (for a poor man like me) is that XP is much cheaper then Vista seems to be. Halo's suggestion to set up a dual-boot PC is a good one . . . and I might just do that. I'm just not sure of the security aspects of a dual-boot system.

    Happy computing!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2006
  49. nitecrawler

    nitecrawler Guest

  50. Natakel

    Natakel Guest

    Thanks for the link, Nitecrawler. Interesting reading . . .
     

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