digital tv...NOT!

Discussion in 'Software' started by CatT, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    could someone explain to me in idiot's terms what "digital tv" really MEANS?!

    2 years ago -- before this much ballyhooed "conversion" -- our cable co offered 2 tiers of service: "analog" (basic cable) and "digital" (fancier stuff).

    then 18 months ago, several stations "disappeared". a placard which still appears in their spaces reads "Beginning 15 July 2008 this channel will be moving to the digital lineup. To continue receiving...."

    MSNBC was the one station i recognized as being gone, but i think there were half a dozen or so. i would cite BET, except that that turned up on a new channel a month or two later. bumping TruTV off the air, in fact (which got my attention since courtTV had only changed to TruTV a few months earlier).

    then last spring the entire country did their analog "switch" to digital. i was informed "cable customers will be unaffected" and "cable customers don't need the infamous converter box".

    famous last words! by autumn they were telling me that i'd need to add a DIFFERENT converter box to our setup (mercifully, FREE), in order to get much of ANYTHING in the future. to quote their website:

    1) "these stations unaffected: A) broadcast (1-21), B) QVC-71, C) BET-97 [moved again!], D) local access 99"
    2) "these stations may require a digital box, a CableCARD, or adapter...on or after 19 jan 2010 [most of my stations, altho to date only a few have really been affected**]."
    3) "these digital channels will be included with the Expanded Basic Tier upon connecting your new equipment...[7 channels, incl MSNBC, Fox Biz, and TruTV".
    4) "these additional channels will be available on our premium...."

    btw, my guess is that the 7 channels in #3 were the same "several" which i lost in the 15 jul 2008 shakeup.

    meanwhile, our comcast rep claims that non-cable subscribers (rabbit ears crowd) are now going to lose all signals. what the...?! after ALL that congress went thru on these converter boxes -- including REPEATEDLY postponing the deadline -- i can't imagine they could POSSIBLY slip a "quick shutdown" past the american people!!

    so.....what's the deal?! are there like 4 different competing definitions of "digital TV" here? is analog really going away, converter boxes-be-damned?! and what did it mean to have "digital service" (paragraph 2 up there about "tiers"....) back in the days when it was called "analog cable"?!

    hopelessly confused!

    :cry


    -----
    ** since the new setup effectively kills any use of a VCR, i ended up scrapping the "box" and going back to my old hookup. MOST of my channels were still there, so i'd rather have 60 channels with a VCR than 80 channels with none. i suspect they're just going to drop out one by one, however, until the "completion" date of 15 feb 2010.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  2. silas

    silas MajorGeek

    Hm where I was living at during this time. I didnt get to watch any tv cept one channel with bunny ears on it. So no cable or anything. I heard or thought they were just going/moving up to digital which I thought meant just not using older TV's. They said if your TV is newer it should already have this"whatever thing" inside of it. So I said well its new so we should be fine. Then I see all these deals for those converter boxes and I never paid to much attention to it. Well when it came time all channels are gone and I guess we now got to buy a converter box to get some channels. And at the store I was told they are 40-50 dollars :( And thats just to get the few bottom channels. Another thing is I didnt get is some people say that you get the lower channels... with the convertor box and all of them are clear like cable clear. And some say its still fuzzy/not the best image convertor box. So who knows.. but I thought about getting one now.. since not to much to do online anymore. And forgot about the cable companys/satilite place. Get you in the door for 30-40 dollars for 1st few months then every few months/year it raises... Well it was suppose to be a fix amount at 40 bucks max and never raised. Now my mum pays like 68 dollars and change a month.. Crazy and the stupid HD satilite/cable company is crappy. Daily channels going out/or not coming in. Constantly channel flipping cause near by person with it is changing there TV at there house..So many "tech" guys came by saying its fixed and it still mess up when they're there or left. And they charge 75 bucks for every half an hour their there. And they use to come one a week now my family said screw you guys you guys cant fix it nor should she keep paying that. And sad thing is only 1 cable place that just got bought by satilite owner so its a joined thing.. and if you want cable/satilite you have to go through them. But noone likes them around here. Many complaints.. also my mom got charged because some how people controll her tv and some how the movies other people order my mom got charged for.. So some times she thought it was me watching porn but really I said wth Id watch it for... also there was some religious channels And so I know that wasnt me! Why Id pay for that?
    Sorry got off topic and ranted about tech cable company scheme. But sometime some things in the world just annoys me. And yet they get away with it. You asked for someone not to come to fix your computer.. company sends them. They sit there on the cell phone with there place talking forever.. and your staring at the clock saying wth you doing?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  3. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    You aren't the only one, CatT, I have an antenna on top of my house, and used to get dozens of channels, BEFORE it went to digital. Now, only CBS, and PBS.. THE PITS! :mad
     
  4. Spad

    Spad MajorGeek

    Analog is the process of taking an audio or video signal and translating it into electronic pulses. Digital on the other hand is breaking the signal into a binary format where the audio or video data is represented by a series of "1"s and "0"s.

    The beauty of digital is that it “knows” how it should be reconstructed when it reaches the end of the transmission, and thus can correct any errors that may have occurred in the data transfer. This generally results in a better picture and more distortion free audio then with a standard analog signal, which is subject to such interference as "ghosting" and "snow." Also, with digital technology it is possible to cram lots of those 1s and 0s together into the same space an analog signal uses . . . so extra data can be sent along with the primary signal, increasing the features a digital device can offer.

    Having said that . . . I don't really prefer digital over analog when it comes to television. We have cable and thus did not need the "converter" box for our reguler service . . . but I did buy one and an external antenna (a modern one, which was actually developed in Indianapolis) for use in a basement work room . . . I get quite a few channels with it, but I am not so very far from Indy which is a major hub of broadcast television signals.
     
  5. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Well, I'd just like to be able to watch TV myself. Much like CatT has said. To begin with, when we had the analog stations, all the stations were saying the same thing: "If you don't get a converter box, or a digital TV, you won't be getting us".....

    Well, I bought a digital converter box for my analog TV, and only got two channels. I called the Local TV stations, and they told me my converter box was no good. So, I went a step further: I bought a digital TV. Now, I live on a very large hill, and I have a huge, UHF/VHF antenna on top of my house. Guess what? On the digital TV, I only get the same two channels as I did on the converter box.. I again, called the same TV stations, and they told me that their new digital tower was only broadcasting for a 30 mile radius of the tower. Too bad I live 40 miles from that tower! The odd thing is, that is the same place their analog tower was, and I got tons of channels with analog.

    I don't think it is so great. For those of us who live out in the country, we don't have access to cable, and forget the satellites. They are unbelievably high.... So, just two channels for me.. I still say, that the digital TV is a rip-off to us consumers...
     
  6. Weathermann

    Weathermann Private First Class

    There has been discussions to make over the air DTV a paid service similar to what the UK has.
     
  7. bigtrucks

    bigtrucks MajorGeek

    Where did you get your info about that? I haven't heard anything of the sort. Plus it would be senseless for anyone who tries as that would only cause more to go to cable/satellite or just watch tv on their computers.
     
  8. Spad

    Spad MajorGeek

    Yes, they are high. They call it an "orbit" . . . :-D

    Just kidding! - Forgive me, I couldn't restrain myself :-o . . . I've been cracking myself up over odd things all day long. And yes, satellite service is ridiculously expensive!

    What kind of antenna do you have? That makes all the difference in the world. I purchased one along the lines of this - http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Amplified-Digital-Flat-Indoor-Antenna/11080817 and have it hanging in my attic space. I ran the cable from there down to the basement TV.

    I get quite a few channels with it. We used to have an outside aerial antenna which wasn't that old . . . but it wouldn't pick up but a few stations.
     
  9. collinsl

    collinsl MajorGeek

    The UK has a few paid digital channels, but 25 of them (at least) are free, some for only part of the day.

    If you digital signal is anything like ours, you will need a "Wideband" aerial to capture the digital signal. Most modern aerials should work, although some very cheap ones may not.

    Also, until the time of the switch-over, some or most digital broadcast masts will run the digital services on reduced power.

    Again, this is what is happening in the UK so I am NOT sure if it is the same for the US, I am just assuming that it is similar.
     
  10. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Hi there! Sure, no problem, I know that is why they are called "Orbit" too LOL
    We went to Radio Shack, and bought one of the best antenna's specifically to pick up Digital TV. The problem that not only I am having, but MANY others in this area, is the stations are broadcasting in digital alright, but NOT to full power. The signal does not reach us from NBC. I am not the only one my friend, that only gets two channels.. Everybody here i shaving the same problem, and it doesn't matter how big the antenna is, IF the station is not broadcasting in full power, you aren't going to get the signal.

    As far as weathemann's post goes, I'll believe it when I see it.. ;)
     
  11. Spad

    Spad MajorGeek

    LOL . . . like I said, I couldn't resist myself. My entire day yesterday consisted of finding things I read and saw funny (mostly just to me, I was told).

    That bites - not much you can do about that, either, that I know of. I do live pretty close to Indianapolis, and as far as I know they broadcast at full power, which probably explains why I get several channels. Have you tried an amplified antenna? Maybe that would make up for the broadcast shortfall?
     
  12. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Ah, we all have those days, tho, Spad! Sure have, and no difference at all. The part that bites, is NBC's tower is 5 feet from PBS's tower, and I can get PBS channel, but not NBC. When I called the station, THEY told me they were not broadcasting "full power". They said they had to switch to digital, which they did, but not to full power. Such is the life in the country. Oh, all the complaining doesn't do any good, but it is nice (or not?) to know we aren't the only ones experiencing this.

    CBS's tower is about 30 miles form me, and I get that just fine.
     
  13. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    OK, I think we need to split into 2 threads here. There problem of getting digital signals on rabbit ears is one I am sympathetic to, but my main question in THIS thread is: what's the diff between digital cable, digital DIGITAL cable, digital WE-MEAN-IT-DIGITAL cable, and cable with "digital service".

    Near as I can tell, I've been "upgraded" to "digital" 3 diff times now. With a 4th version coming 17 Feb.

    Luckily most of these have been free (well, provided by cable co), but I still can't figure out what the FOOK is going on! We have like 5 tiers of service now, with 3 digital "convertor" boxes...in addition to those congress-welfare ones from last year (for after we PUNT cable...mercifully....).
     
  14. unrox

    unrox Private E-2

    I subscribe to Comcast Cable. I wanted to get another cable box, they want $14 a month is there a way to just buy my own box and still pay for their signal?
     
  15. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    If I understand this digital stuff correctly, the national over the air(OTA) broadcasters had to switch to digital signal only. Those that broadcast only over cable or satellite did not. Satellite signals are all digital as far as I know. As to this question "what's the diff between digital cable, digital DIGITAL cable, digital WE-MEAN-IT-DIGITAL cable", not sure. But the cable with "digital service" probably means that some but not all of the channels are digital or that digital service is available.

    If you're interested in an OTA broadcast antenna, then AntennaWeb may be of some use.
    From the AntennaWeb.org Site:
    @unrox:

    Yes, you can buy a Tivo and then tell Comcast you would like a cable card for your new Tivo.
     
  16. silas

    silas MajorGeek

    But a question I have since I have nothing on my television at this time to (try to get channels) like I use to have a regular old antanna and now I have nothing since they"changed it over" I never bought a convertor box because I was told I didn't need one but I guess I do. So my question is since they changed over and I have nothing on my tv to try to get any channels on it. What should I buy? They said Wallmart sells convertor boxes for high price? Also if I was to buy that convertor box how do you set it up? I always assumed it be like running through all your channels with an old antanna and if you get this channel it will come in. But some people told me a convertor box will bring in many channels for free and very clear picture?I think there bullspitting me?
     
  17. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    Silas, Since your T.V. is a relatively new model, then it should be digital ready and you should not need a converter box. 'I use to have a regular old antanna and now I have nothing since they"changed it over"', when it comes to digital transmissions and a "regular old antenna" the antenna needs to be much closer(with in a very few miles) to the source of the digital transmission than it had to be with the analog signals. That's where the directional antennas come into play.

    Since you're not getting anything on the T.V. your problem may just be the lack of a good antenna. With analog signals you might get a snowy or fuzzy picture but with digital signals you will get either all or none, there is no snowy or fuzzy in between stuff. As far as a converter box bringing in many channels, it will with a good antenna and they should all be free as they are all Over The Air(OTA) broadcasts. The picture will be either crystal clear or no picture at all. On a digital ready T.V. the results will be the same as long as you have a good antenna. Your location is what really determines the type of antenna you need.

    Another thing you may find out, if you have a Hi-Def set is that many OTA broadcasters have not only moved to digital but to Hi-Def as well.

    And finally, no I'm not an antenna salesman, it's just that right now I have phone, internet service, and DirecTV all independent of each other and have been looking at other options to cut the outrageous amount I'm spending.

    CatT, I need to make some amendments to my earlier post.

    First, from what I gather "Basic cable" has nothing to do with "analog" or "digital" but rather what channels are offered in the package(tier). At the time, if you were to get the broader package(higher tier) you would receive more channels than what were available in the "Basic cable" package. There is also the possibility they are referring to "Standard Definition"(SD) as apposed to "High Definition"(HD). SD can be an analog or digital signal, HD is a digital transmission.

    Although the broadcasters that broadcast over satellite/cable only, didn't have to switch to digital transmission as the OTA broadcasters did, many of them are doing so any way, but on their own time frame, and many are adding or switching to Hi-Def.

    As they do, the cable companies have to adjust. Since they may have many different types of set top boxes out there in service all of which have different capabilities the adjustments become difficult. Some can simply be upgraded with a software download, some will need to be replaced and some will need an added piece of equipment or adapter. Also, much of the MPEG2 transmissions are being switched to MPEG4, more hassles.

    This doesn't make them blameless, after all these outfits knew long before we did what was coming down the pike, which means they should have had plenty of time to make these adjustments. Hence all their word playing, at least that's what it sounds like to me.

    I have to admit though, in all of my looking into available packages from different providers, I've never come across a "digital WE-MEAN-IT-DIGITAL cable" package offered by anyone.
     
  18. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    For the record, I just lost about half of my remaining channels at 1:08 ET.

    I was actually WATCHING it at the time (CNN-42) when it went black. At the EXACT SAME TIME (since I was taping something), a whole slew of OTHERS also went black (Fox-41, CNN2-43, lotta other things I'd need to look up to remember).

    I am LEFT with: broadcast channels (1-22), CSPAN-44, CNBC-46, Comedy Central-61, ....

    HANG ON -- BREAKING NEWS: Since typing the above, I have now lost CSPAN, CNBC, and Comedy Central! It's now about 1:18, and all I see left now are 1-22, a few channels between 62 and 71, and 97. And I suspect the 62-71 ones are gonna crap out at 1:28....

    THE END IS NIGH!!!!

    :cry
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  19. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    Call your cable provider and ask them, "What needs to be done to continue receiving the channels you're paying them for?"
     
  20. silas

    silas MajorGeek

    I have a Grandma who is hard headed and wont listen. Shes getting up there in age she feel few times off the toilet standing up and she feel off a step ladder hanging big curtains by herself.. Anyways she never had cable (she dont know what many things are with tech) you talk about computer or tv shows or anything she dont know. Anyway we talked her into getting cable 7 yrs ago or so she had it for a year she one those people that think she broke her tv cable.. when the picture wouldn't come in.. she she never let me look at it(and she never call cable place). So she got rid of it. Now with the switch over thing.. cable was going to run her 65 dollars a month for basic cable 60 some channels.. or she could just have 4 6 and 8 channels. Now the thingy is the covertor box which was like 40 bucks(1 time fee for buying it).. and she could have those channels most likely forever with 40 bucks but instead she asked if cable company can hook up the 3 channels.. so the cable company actually charges and does the low channels for a fee of 18 dollars a month.. wth! I was amaze that the cable company did what a convertor box does and also charge that much for it but whatever.
     
  21. Weathermann

    Weathermann Private First Class

    There has been several ads on our local TV stations stating to keep free TV free. Apparently the Government is thinking about doing something similar to what UK residents have. And that is having a yearly license to watch local TV stations with over the air antenna.
     
  22. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    I wonder if that is state or federal? I haven't seen anything like that here, but I don't pay much attention to the T.V. either. In the past I've seen listings in the guide for channels of other states, about raising the tax on cable or satellite customers. But when I tried to select any of those listings it would just display a message saying something to the effect "Not available in your area".
     
  23. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Ori

    I haven't seen any adds here, plastidust, and no one I know with cable in town, have heard of it either. Sounds like a "TV add" to me. :confused
    Neither State or Federal. Zip.
     
  24. Weathermann

    Weathermann Private First Class

    Just seen the ad on WWMT Channel 3.1. "The FCC is considering taking away free TV."

    http://keepfreetvfree.com/
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  25. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    Kind of sounds like having to buy license plates for your car. Next thing you know we'll have to buy antenna insurance in case the signals we're receiving collide with the signals the neighbor is receiving. :) Watching television is getting way to complicated.:banghead Seems like most people have say 200 channels available and I'll bet they watch maybe 8 or 10 of those. They keep adding gimmicks to these packages and no good content to watch with the gimmicks.

    The last post by CatT, channels were dropping off right and left. I'm wondering why and what has happened.

    Ah. federal then. Well they have to find some way to fund the budget. If there is no free TV, why would one stay with over the air when they could have satellite or cable with even more worthless channels?

    EDIT: Never mind, stupid question. Just followed your link.
     
  26. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    Just to clarify (again), they are dropping off left and right b/c I disconnected the latest "digital convertor" box and went back to my prior "digital compatible" (or w/e) box. When I did have the new one hooked up for a few weeks, I actually had MORE channels than I was used to...but at the price of losing use of the VCR.

    So I forwent Hallmark and Bravo and MSNBC and w/e else was in the "new" batch, and went back to my basic 60 or so channels. I'm rarely on anything besides Fox anyways.

    Alas, but just as they had warned, even those disappeared as of this latest (4th!) round of "conversion to digital". Final count I had stations 2-22 (literature says I will get 2-25, but last few are empty), and 3 other stations. Syfy-65, ????-72, and BET-97, I think (not at home to check right now).

    Making it even MORE confusing, there's actually 5-6 cable stations in that lower (1-22) range! HSN-3, NBC Shopping-8, New England Cable-6, Town Cable-10, and...(?!) FOOD CHANNEL-22. Maybe a QVC or two.

    Food channel had been on 53 or 54 until recently; I dunno if the switch to 22 is directly responsible for it still being accessible. On the flip side, BET is still fully accessible despite a move from a channel in the bcast range (9) to its recent (3rd or 4th) home, 97.

    CLEAR?

    :(
     
  27. TeeCee

    TeeCee MajorGeek

    Clear as mud, Cat!:-D I know it is a hassle, and is not fun. I have a digital TV, and since I live out in no-man's-land, I only get the two channels, HOWEVER, if the weather is just right, I can get FOX in.;) The FOX tower is only 11 miles frm me, but not a very strong signal..

    I really really doubt if we will be going to ANY pay-for-free-TV here. It only stands to reason, that if I had to "pay for free TV", I would for sure have a satellite on my house.. Period.
     
  28. plastidust

    plastidust Command Sergeant Major

    Sorry CatT, some how I managed to stay un-clarified and I'm still :confused as usual. Why did they have you hook up the box, that you've now disconnected, in the first place? From what you said here:
    The box you are currently using is capable of receiving the channels or you would not have been able to watch CNN while it blacked out. Seems like they just cut the signal.

    Sure don't see why watching TV has to be so difficult.

    How about checking out the TiVo site? They have refurbished units if you don't want a new one. Then as suggested in your 1st post:
    you could have the cable provider send you a "CableCARD". That way you should be able to watch the channels you've lost, still be able to use your VCR and you would have the added, very handy, feature of the DVR. This may have changed but the last I heard the "CableCARD(s)" were cheaper to lease or rent than the boxes. The cable provider will probably charge an extra fee(per month) for the DVR service though.

    Anyway, just a thought. The combination of the TiVo and the "CableCARD" should be able to deal with all of the changes and get you away from all the aggravation of dealing with those changes.
     
  29. Speculant

    Speculant The Confused One

    Too bad I watch all my TV on the internet...streaming Netflix FTW.
     
  30. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    Sigh. For about the FIFTH time now: the box was critical to "continue receiving [most] stations after the upgrade". But at the expense of losing any and all use of my VCR. Which is too high a price for me.

    BTW, I've lost Syfy-65 since last I posted! And BET-97 has a mucked-up audio feed, rendering it totally unusable. So the final score is: 1-22, inclusive, plus QVC-75.

    Boy, I can't imagine QVC will stick around much longer...hanging out there like a sore thumb and all.
     
  31. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    UPDATE 2011: still "making do" with broadcast-only channels (plus the 4-5 oddballs that slip thru somehow - BET, QVC, town cable, etc. as mentioned), but suddenly this year, 2 of the BROADCAST ones have disappeared! namely PBS-2 and PBS-3.

    sigh. PBS-1 can't be far behind.

    what's the deal? i thought congress made a big stink about how the broadcast channels would have to be supported for non-ditigal viewers. while i'm in a weird sort of middle ground (using cable w/o subscribing), i suspect others with the much-ballyhooed rabbit ears+adapter combo have also lost these 2 channels.

    how is PBS getting away with this?

    never quite sure why we had 3 PBSes to begin with, but they all ran wildly diff programs/schedules. (just to preempt anyone saying "so just watch #1"...)
     
  32. cabbiinc

    cabbiinc Staff Sergeant

    Hi there. I wish I saw this thread earlier to comment. Didn't read half the comments on the second page. You guys are confused.

    I used to work for the company that Comcast bought in my area. I'm also now totally on OTA (over the air) service and get 35+ channels, but that's misleading as some of them are repeater channels, and there's a whole lot of religious channels too.

    OK, so for the cable channels, if you plug it into your TV and it's not a newer TV and you get channels, it's analog. The Head End can convert digital to analog pretty easily. This is usually the low tier package. Lower channels, nothing above channel 99. Slowly they are trying to switch everyone to digital. But for now, the "local channels" that are being delivered to you are brought in via an antenna, they do not have a cable ran to the local NBC affiliate usually. So any of your local channels, you should be able to pick up locally. That's why they are local. Unless of course it's a cable only channel. The line that all channels will drop off the face of the earth unless you're on their system is an out and out lie and they want you to buy their service.

    Digital can come across the same line, it's just higher frequencies. Extreme low frequencies are reserved for your internet service. If you want to see unscrambled digital channels without buying their box you'll need a QAM tuner either in your TV or DVR or Tivo or whatever. There are TV tuner cards for your computer, USB and PCI, that have QAM capabilities. Whether or not the cable company offers any channels at all that aren't scrambled though is up to them. It's their lines, they make many of the rules. If you want to really know if you have a digital cable box or not, watch TV and unplug the cable from the wall. If the signal freezes it's digital, if it turns to snow instantly it's analog.

    OTA signals work well, when they have enough signal. You either get the signal or you don't. There is little fuzz in and out, it's either on or off. There's a lot of confusion on what's a digital antenna and what isn't. An analog antenna is made of metal usually and conveys the signal to the TV or box. A digital antenna has a sicker on the box and a higher price tag, but it's the same damned thing. Where they were able to get away with this is the fact that most older stations are lower VHF channels, when they simulcast a digital signal they couldn't use the same freq's so they had to use the UHF band, usually UHF low but in some markets that was taken so they used the high band. Anyways, the "digital antenna" was usually a UHF antenna. But not all digital signals are broadcast on UHF, and not all UHF behaves the same. Some diffuses easily, others don't. It's the nature of the waves. The smart consumer will go to www.AntennaWeb.org click choose an antenna, follow the steps and find the chart that tells you what channels are how strong and give you a guide to your purchase. But even that isn't straight forward, although it's a lot better than asking the salesman at Radio Shack nearly 90% of the time. The RS people are sales people, most don't know nearly as much as you'd expect a RS employee to know about technical stuff. Can they sell? I'm getting off topic. AntennaWeb.org, find if you need a UHF or VHF antenna, buy the proper antenna. Most antennas will state "55 miles", but you need to look at the specs and find the range for the band/freq you're wanting to bring in. Usually they state the VHF range but not the UHF range since it's much smaller. Also, the more range an antenna picks up the more directional it is. RS sells an awesome UHF only antenna (which actually picks up a decent amount of VHF channels too) for less than $25. It's a mast mount so not too good for apartments and the like. It has a range of something like 90 miles. But if your broadcast points are in different directions you'll either need to rotate the antenna or run 2 on the same mast and combine them, which can sometimes be tricky. Anyways, find your range, your freq., then find your antenna.

    The set top box or TV that you'll need to buy is one with an ATSC tuner in it. NTSC is the old analog standard, please don't confuse the two. ATSC can not decode the cable channels, it's not QAM. Some boxes or TVs have both tuners. Some satellite receivers have ATSC tuners built in, but they are usually the ones that you have to buy, not lease, rent, or get with your service.

    So to sum up, analog is on lower channels.
    The difference between digital antennas and analog ones are the price tag.
    QAM can read digital cable (where not scrambled)
    ATSC can decode OTA digital.

    USDTV tried OTA cable. They basically rented bandwidth that other stations owned but weren't using. They were in the midwest, trying to expand when they went bankrupt in 2007. I've had one of their boxes since 2006 and was hoping they'd get around to my area. They offered "cable" channels for around $15 a month. But the bankruptcy kind of put a kink in that plan.

    If you're interested in OTA stuff, check out http://www.hdtvprimer.com/
     
  33. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    thank u for the detailed post! it's gonna take me a month or two to work thru it, but i definitely will.

    in the meantime, what about my last post re: how come PBS is getting away with dropping some (most?) of their stations from analog after congress made that big stink about broadcast channels not doing this?

    is it:

    A) PBS was specifically exempted
    B) that reprieve from congress was of limited duration, and PBS just happens to be first of the coming wave of stations doing this

    or

    C) sumpin else and/or further misunderstanding on my part

    TIA!
     
  34. cabbiinc

    cabbiinc Staff Sergeant

    The exemption was for smaller markets, broadcaster wise, and was meant to give less profitable companies time to get expensive equipment in place and train personnel. PBS, being non-profit and funded by both tax payers (more so in smaller markets) and donors (more so where donors are wealthy or more plentiful) was more influenced by the ruling. In my area, all stations ceased analog broadcasts on the switch date. So to answer your question it's more B) than anything else. There is of course some politicing (locally and nationally) involved and this isn't the definitive story.

    As for the channels that have been dropped vs all channels, I'd say that it's likely that your 2nd and 3rd PBS channels were digital to begin with, and your cable company as a service to their customers likely included that into the lower channels. They converted the digital signal into their analog signal so your older sets would get them. Since there's not much in revenue from them to the cable company it's not advantageous to keep doing this. And again, the cable company is there to make money, so the more they can promote their "digital service" the more they can profit from. Profitting is what companies do, it's their purpose. I'm not trying to make that out as evil or anything. But do keep in mind that half of what one company tells you about their competition should be suspect for accuracy.
     
  35. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    so there WAS an exemption? this is the first i'm hearing of it. and even if these 2 stations were "already digital" but grandfathered in by the cable co (that makes sense), they are still bigger stations than some of the other things STILL there. what about town cable?! no matter how u slice it, that's waaaaaaaaay smaller than those 2 PBS stations.

    and ch 38 (boston) -- a piddly little independent station left stranded by the UPN/WB merger. that's still there.

    the two PBS stations in question are ch 44 boston (came in as cable 16) and ch 11 manchester NH, btw. i don't see any wiki on ch 11, but 44 is described HERE:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGBX-TV#Digital_television

    i guess "for the time being" has just now ended. :(

    any obvious diff with the remaining, ch 2 boston, station, btw?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGBH-TV#Digital_television

    does that line "eventually...will be available" mean that our ch 2 is going to dry up too?

    rather than a large/small divide, was the exemption for PBS specifically? i repeat that NONE of the other broadcast channels are showing any signs of disappearing.

    if it's just a matter of the cable cos including them as a "service" (which also makes sense, frankly), how come they're doing it for everyone ELSE but not PBS?! is THIS the "vast right-wing conspiracy" lady hillary spoke of?!

    :cry


    RECAP:

    ch 2/GBH -- going strong
    ch 11 -- dead late 2010?
    ch 44/GBX -- dead coupla months ago
     
  36. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

  37. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    and the winner is...BET!!

    couldn't quite grasp the logic of which stations came into my analog-only connection the last coupla years, but it's been pretty stable ever since the second PBS disappeared. that is, we've been consistently receiving:

    1 of 3 PBS channels
    all other broadcast channels (ALL)
    coupla "shopping" channels
    town's community access channel
    BET

    so, more-or-less the "broadcast" channels (what we'd get if we used rabbit ears) give or take a few oddballs. in particular, why did BET consistently show up?

    well, cut to the chase, we recently got notice that we'd be losing the REST of the channels this june unless we hooked up some new box they sent us. which i never got around to, and, lo and behond, right on schedule they all went dead...EXCEPT BET!!!!

    "broadcast channels" all missing, "shopping" missing, even the community access channel. but we still get BET!

    this is funny. i've never seen a TV with *one* channel before.

    this gonna help me with black chicks?
     
  38. cabbiinc

    cabbiinc Staff Sergeant

    It's not surprising. Analog channels are tough to encode, or rather there's tons of decoders around. Digital channels on the other hand are easier to encrypt. Cable theft is a problem in some areas.
     
  39. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    so what makes BET so special? are people actually getting it over the air? i always thought it was a cable channel same as the rest.

    and what made PBS-2 and PBS-3 special the past few years? why were they exempt from continuing analog during the transition when no other station was (even PBS-1)?
     
  40. cabbiinc

    cabbiinc Staff Sergeant

    I think you're reading too much into it. It's far more likely that they just haven't got around to switching BET off than any other reason. Likely they switch off a channel when they need it for the digital channels (you can squeeze 8-10 digital channels into the same frequency range that one analog channel takes).

    As for the exemptions from what I understand it was a case by case basis. The PBS station in my area was one of the first HD signals in the nation (I think they were second or third to turn on their digital signals on a permanent basis, along side their analog signal). In my area everything switched on the switch date. Two stations did leave up an analog signal, but it was just a PSA about the switch that repeated and what you'd need to buy and how to hook up a TV to the antenna and a number if you had any questions (one station was in spanish even). I had already been all digital OTA for a few years, so I'm not really privy to why a particular station would be exempt. I think I read somewhere that there was a commission (or something like that) that a station manager could appeal to in hopes of buying some time, but that just bought time and didn't exempt forever. If the station just couldn't afford it it would likely just go off the air.

    Why would a cable company leave one station on analog? I have no idea. But I'd guess that it's less about a strategy and more like technician mike just hasn't pulled BET's plug yet, or thought he had when he hadn't. The Head End guys in my area reminded me alot of those two guys off of Myth Busters, except a lot nuttier. Scientific, methodical, lock themselves in a little room to work on secret stuff and get excited when the 1 inch trunk cable shows up in the warehouse and start scheming how much power the amps are going to need. When they started working with fiber optic they were like grade schoolers that were just told they'd get ice cream after lunch. My point is, trying to figure out why BET is still there is probably alot like running all your vinyl backwards to see if there really is a message from Satan or a recipe for roast beef in one of your albums. You really do have better things to do.
     
  41. CatT

    CatT I can't follow the rules

    well, it's not just a matter of BET remaining analog in the here and now, it's the question of how it stayed analog these 3 years in the first place. were it one of the "broadcast" stations still going right now, i'd just assume they forgot to yank the cord, like you say. but this was the LONE "cable" station remaining in the lineup all these years.

    comcast actually stated as much in their announcement, which read something like "analog viewers will continue to receive channels 2-22, 76, and 97". that was back in 2009 or 2010.

    at that point BET was on ch9, but it soon moved to 10, later 8, and finally 76 and 97. so those 2 oddballs in the list are not completely random; they are the very two BET later landed on.

    so they've really gone to a lot of effort to keep it analog. my guess: they TRIED to go digital with everyone else, but al sharpton and jesse jackson raised a high holy stink about it.

    :-D
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  42. cabbiinc

    cabbiinc Staff Sergeant

    In that case, BET switching channels around, then it may be that Comcast has a contractual agreement with them to keep the signal analog or some other such nonsense. Seriously though, this is internal politics without the cable company and the channel provider. You could just call them up and ask them.
     

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