Symphony of Blue Screens

Discussion in 'Software' started by DocBadwrench, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Greetings all,

    Rather than dump a bunch of cryptic data on the community, I thought I would provide a short list of the last bunch of BSOD's that I suffered. What follows is a single line from each minidump that purports to suggest what the likely problem is.

    Probably caused by : processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    Probably caused by : AmdK8.sys ( AmdK8+3552 )
    Probably caused by : nv4_disp.dll ( nv4_disp!ReadRegistryD3D+884 )
    Probably caused by : ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+96 )
    Probably caused by : ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTrap0E+243 )
    Probably caused by : AmdPPM.sys ( AmdPPM+2832 )
    Probably caused by : ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+96 )
    Probably caused by : AmdPPM.sys ( AmdPPM+2832 )
    Probably caused by : ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+96 )
    Probably caused by : AmdPPM.sys ( AmdPPM+2832 )


    I can't tell you how many things I have done - from detailed HD integrity scans, to overnight MemTests. I'm almost to the point where I will be reinstalling windows for about the third or fourth time in the past 12 months. This alone tells me there is some kind of hardware that's the problem. Of course, I don't have a few hundred dollars available to bring it to a techie for a detailed analysis. Any thoughts based on the above information?

    My system specs are:

    Computer Type: ACPI Uniprocessor PC
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional
    OS Service Pack: Service Pack 3
    Internet Explorer: 8.0.6001.18702
    DirectX: 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)

    CPU Type: AMD Athlon 64 FX-55, 2600 MHz (13 x 200)
    Motherboard: Biostar NF4 Ultra-A9A (4 PCI, 2 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, LAN)
    Chipset: nVIDIA nForce4 Ultra, AMD Hammer
    System Memory: 2048 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
    DIMM1-thru-4: Corsair XMS CMX512-3200XL 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2.0-2-2-5 @ 200 MHz)
    BIOS Type: Award (10/31/06)

    Video Adapter: nVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT (512 MB)
    3D Accelerator: nVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT
    Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 2253BW/2253LW/MagicSyncMaster CX2253BW (Digital) [22" LCD] (HVLQ301334)

    Audio Adapter: Realtek ALC655 @ nVIDIA nForce4 (CK8-04) - Audio Codec Interface

    IDE Controller: nVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller
    IDE Controller: nVIDIA nForce4 Parallel ATA Controller


    I am happy to provide whatever minidump data you think would be appropriate. I have been suffering at least 3 to 4 blue screens each of the past five days. I don't need to tell you that this is getting OLD. Over the past year, I have needed to reinstall windows about three times. Each install lasts me a few months, after which the blue screens make it impossible for me to use my computer with any regularity. I think I'm close to yet another reinstall, however, I am desperate to determine what the actual problem is, because a reinstall is simply buying time until the next time this persistent problem manifests itself.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hello DocBadwrench,

    As far as AMDPPM.sys goes, I do believe this is an upgrade for SP3, for the AMD it is actually over heating your processor which is causing the BSOD's. Take a look at this thread.

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com...p/thread/9d379b6e-a84e-4a7a-a2b2-792794e4fa19

    Hope that helps for part of it.

    And processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 ) thats because of the ACPI overheating.

    And for ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+96 ) (That is the basebone of the Windows OS. Can you place your whole Dump as a .txt file and attach it to the post? Thanks.)
     
  3. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Greetings Eldr,

    Thank you so much for your input. After reviewing that thread and consulting the confusing-interwebs, I'm coming to see your interpretation as more connected to my issue than anything else.

    I am wondering what would be involved in expunging AMDppm.sys from my system (since I can't find it in Add/Remove Programs). I've done a search and found it sitting in its own directory in Program Files. Can I simply remove blast the directory out and then let CCleaner catch references in my registry and remove them?

    Interestingly, I have found the spot where the newest AMD Cool n quiet driver is, but it's empty on the AMD drivers list. I will need to find an alternative location to find AMD Processor Driver Version 1.3.2.0053 to try that out.

    Again, thank you very much for your help. I'm going to give this a shot tonight. Sadly, here at work, I don't have any way to attach the minidump information in a text file - I just have the .DMP files themselves sitting in my DropBox.
     
  4. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    I possibly would not do that if I would be you. See possibly if there is an update first that would override that because possibly by wiping out that AMDppm.sys it would totally remove your ACPI/Heating configuration for your PC, and you'll have bluescreens nearly every bootup.

    Thanks,
    Elder.
     
  5. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Hello again,

    I mentioned trying to remove it precisely because I could not find a way to replace it. I will continue to hunt, but I'm somewhat stymied because AMD has a whole lot of nothing in the spot where they should have the updated driver.
     
  6. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hello,

    Have you tried contacting AMD's Tech Support as far as for where the driver should be?

    Thanks,
     
  7. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Actually, yes, I have tried to contact AMD, but they have told me that I can't do anything until I register as a new customer. However, their registration form is broken and I can't successfully create an ID.

    The irony, of course, is that I can't tell them that the registration functionality is broken until I register. Delicious, no?
     
  8. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I was finally able to create an account. It turns out the site hates FireFox, so I had to use IE. Of course, all that time-consuming work I did fleshing out my request is gone because they basically threw it out and told me to resubmit using this other, clunkier method. Thanks, AMD, for making a simple help request into an arduous death-march of bad design. ;)
     
  9. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Hello again. As a record, here is the text of the support ticket that I (re)submitted to AMD:

    Greetings,

    I am trying to fix a problem wherein my computer will (seemingly at random) blue screen. This happens in games, in apps, or just sitting on the desktop. I have been suffering around 4 BSOD's each day for the past week.

    After much research, I have (hopefully) determined that this is a problem with the OS's control over my CPU. This appears to have started when I upgraded to XP Service Pack 3. It appears that new SP3 functionality is interfering with CPU control.

    My minidump file has highlighted these two (among others) SYS files that could be causing problems: AMDppm.sys and AmdK8.sys

    I have attempted to find revised CPU drivers for XP in order to address this problem, however, when I go to the AMD Support site to find these drivers, I discover the the item I need (AMD Processor Driver Version 1.3.2.0053 for Windows XP) is a link to an empty page.

    Is there any way that I can obtain this driver? Could you tell me if this thinking is correct or not based on your technical expertise?

    The page with the list of drivers applicable to my CPU:
    http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/P...Download+Processor&ostype=&keywords=&items=20

    For more information about this problem, which I have been trying to solve with the help of the fine folks at the Major Geeks community, visit this thread:
    http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?p=1343129&posted=1#post1343129
     
  10. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hello Again Doc,

    Honestly best of luck. I've never personally dealt with AMD's online support. But I'm assuming that they should be able to point you at least in the right direction.

    Thanks,
     
  11. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I have reduced the number of BSOD occurences, but have not fixed the problem. What I have done:

    • Removed 1 hard drive.
    • Removed a video capture card.
    The only BSOD since I made those changes (so far) was:

    • Probably caused by : ntkrnlpa.exe ( nt!KiTimerExpiration+96 )
    My feeling, after doing this and then playing around with it, is that perhaps I was drawing too much power from the PSU. However, I don't have any way of knowing just yet. I don't have an additional PSU to swap it out with, nor do I have another video card (beyond the old capture card) to swap out.

    The bugcheck analysis follows:

    IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (a)
    An attempt was made to access a pageable (or completely invalid) address at an
    interrupt request level (IRQL) that is too high. This is usually
    caused by drivers using improper addresses.
    If a kernel debugger is available get the stack backtrace.
    Arguments:
    Arg1: 00000004, memory referenced
    Arg2: 00000002, IRQL
    Arg3: 00000001, bitfield :
    bit 0 : value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation
    bit 3 : value 0 = not an execute operation, 1 = execute operation (only on chips which support this level of status)
    Arg4: 804ffe86, address which referenced memory

    Debugging Details:

    WRITE_ADDRESS: 00000004
    CURRENT_IRQL: 2
    FAULTING_IP:
    nt!KiTimerExpiration+96
    804ffe86 ?? ???
    CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1
    DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: DRIVER_FAULT
    BUGCHECK_STR: 0xA
    TRAP_FRAME: 80549c14 -- (.trap 0xffffffff80549c14)
    ErrCode = 00000002
    eax=805536e0 ebx=805536e0 ecx=88743888 edx=000000ff esi=000000c8 edi=00000000
    eip=804ffe86 esp=80549c88 ebp=80549cac iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz ac pe cy
    cs=0008 ss=0010 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=0030 gs=0000 efl=00010297
    nt!KiTimerExpiration+0x96:
    804ffe86 ?? ???
    Resetting default scope

    LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 804ffe86 to 80540693

    STACK_TEXT:
    80549c14 804ffe86 badb0d00 000000ff 8a998f20 nt!KiTrap0E+0x243
    80549cac 80541b9d 80552e20 00000000 000abbc8 nt!KiTimerExpiration+0x96
    80549cc0 805527c0 ffdffc50 00000000 00000000 nt!KiRetireDpcList+0x56
    80549cc4 ffdffc50 00000000 00000000 80541b16 nt!KiIdleThread0+0x80
    WARNING: Frame IP not in any known module. Following frames may be wrong.
    805527c0 00000000 805527c8 805527c8 805527d0 0xffdffc50

    STACK_COMMAND: kb

    FOLLOWUP_IP:
    nt!KiTimerExpiration+96
    804ffe86 ?? ???

    SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 1
    SYMBOL_NAME: nt!KiTimerExpiration+96
    FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner
    MODULE_NAME: nt
    IMAGE_NAME: ntkrnlpa.exe
    DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 498c11d3
    FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0xA_nt!KiTimerExpiration+96
    BUCKET_ID: 0xA_nt!KiTimerExpiration+96
    Followup: MachineOwner
     
  12. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hmm, good possibility. Or that your ACPI is being affected. But this is what doesn't make sense. When you were running Windows XP Sp2 did you have any issues with it? Because its possible that the drivers when upgraded from XP sp2 to sp3, also updated ntkrnlpa.exe, and now thats where the issue is coming in.. (Still looking...)
     
  13. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Actually, I had upgraded to SP3 immediately following my last reinstallation of Windows, so it's not as though I just installed SP3 and have problems. Everything was fine for a few months - this is why I'm wondering just what the problem is. It is possible that when I did a general driver upgrade that I replaced something that I shouldn't have.

    I'm worried that I should now be obsessed with potential problems every time I do a driver upgrade - I probably should if I'm going to pretend to be a windows power user. ;) My hope, when I invariably install windows the next time, is that I will keep automatic backups on that roll-backs are far easier than they are now.

    In addition, I have poured heavily through the Major Geeks recommendations for protecting systems. I have been taking the opportunity to compile as much helpful information from MG and the other forums I visit so that I can have some kind of consistent, documented approach.

    When I have something useful, I will (of course) post it here. It might be nice to have another helpful guide. While I'm not the kind of system expert this community boasts, I am a pretty good information designer. I can make things look clean and approachable. It's my hope that I can pay you (and your brethren back) in some way for your kind help.

    As usual - all the best to you, sir.
     
  14. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Today, I got a response from AMD. They informed me that their website is broken (which I knew), but were kind enough to provide an alternate link to the most recent version of the Processor Driver. They also warned me that this may not fix the problem (which I also know). I'm sharing this link just in case someone else needs help.

    This morning, my PC crashed twice due to processr.sys errors. I hope this helps, but I'm not holding my breath. :)
     
  15. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Almost immediately after installing this, I got a blue screen (while just accessing mail through a browser). I'm going to need to reinstall Windows this weekend... yet again. Again, thanks to you Elder. I appreciate your kind help. I will do my best, during this next attempt, to keep regular backups, but I suspect that I have hardware which I cannot diagnose.

    What's funny is that I priced out the cost of having the local shop look at my PC. At minimum, it will cost just $100 less than the cost of a system way better than my current one. That's assuming they figure the problem, too. If not, the irony then will be that it costs more to repair my system than to buy one way better. In either event, I haven't the cash to put toward it.

    Modern life! Woohoo!
     
  16. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hey Again Doc,

    Best luck on the Re-install, I think that should fix. But figured out what the Processr.sys is setup in Windows so it shows what your Processor is in Device Manager, cause in affect, it comes back to the issue with your CPU and your Heat Sync.

    Read further here:

    http://forums.overclockersclub.com/lofiversion/index.php/t100589.html
     
  17. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Thanks for the link, sir. I will check it out. I forgot to include the most recent "probable cause" from WinDbg:

    Probably caused by : nvgts.sys ( nvgts+e993 )

    I truly wish I could confirm the likely problem. The massive degree of uncertainty is upsetting to me. ;)
     
  18. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    The Symphony Continues

    I gave up on playing techie, so I reinstalled windows. During the process of bringing windows up-to-date I got some missing DLL errors. Shortly after this, I installed a piece of software and then found that it would not run. When I went into Add & Remove Programs, I found that the software was installed, but that it took up 0.0 MB of space. Aha! I thought. The hard drive's bad - problem solved!

    After a shut down, I pulled the hard drive out and swapped it with another one. Over the course of the evening, I re-installed Windows again, but on this new drive. Everything went smoothly and I had hope that I'd get an install of XP that might last a few months.

    A day later it blue screened on me. No game was being played - the computer was just sitting on the Windows desktop. So here I am again - stuck not knowing the cause.

    There were remarkably few dustbunnies when I just looked at it, and none of those were located on any important parts. That said, I gave the insides a good air-pressure cleaning. I removed, sprayed, and replaced the ram, ensured that there was no dust lingering about the heat sync, and pulled the dust off the bundled wires.

    Potential causal agents

    RAM
    I don't have any ram to swap out, but I have pretty much confirmed that it's not the problem. Previously, I removed two sticks (I have four 512MB sticks of Corsair ram) and still got a blue screen. While I haven't put the second stick in on its own and got a blue screen, I have run Memtest-86 four times over the past month. Each time, it runs through the whole battery of tests with no negative results.

    CPU
    I ran a stress test of the CPU using "CPUStabTest.exe". It's old, but I got it from Major Geeks. I can't seem to find any cutting edge CPU testing software, so if any of you have an idea, let me know.

    Power Supply
    I have a 510watt power supply. A short time after the last time that I had problems, I had purchased an Antec 550watt True PSU (for a different computer). However, the mobo connectors on that Antec do not work with my Biostar mobo so I'm stuck with what I have. In the following picture, you can see the input/output information. I haven't a clue about what they all mean, but maybe some of you do.

    [​IMG]

    Installed hardware elements

    • a CD/DVD drive (which I seldom use)
    • geForce 9600GT video card
    • Three hard drives (Windows drive, Games drive, and Media drive)
    I realize that three drives is a bit much, but I don't have anything more installed. All other elements (such as sound and LAN) are on the motherboard.

    The big problem that I'm having is that I'm not a trained system builder. While I can mix and match parts to build a system, I have never used a multimeter and can't do any electrical testing whatsoever. I want to determine the problem, but money is a very large concern of mine right now (as it is for so many of us).
     
  19. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    I had a machine that was blue screening almost on a daily basis. Win. debug was reporting a different cause each time I ran it. Would show a different stop error every time it would crash. I ran all kinds of diagnostics, including Memtest, and could find no problems. Had four 1gig sticks of ram installed and removed all but one. Still blue screened. Replaced the ram that I had left in with one of the other sticks I had pulled out and surprise, no more BSOD's. After months of working on the problem, it came down to something that simple.
     
  20. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I read this response of yours, Jeep, just after learning of a similar problem from my brother-in-law. My new task: I'm going to test each stick of ram - on its own - using Prime95. If I can determine which chip(s) are faulty, maybe I can avoid further pain by replacing them.

    Thank you very much for your observation - it keeps me going. :)
     
  21. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I have just run a series of tests with Prime95. Since I have dual-threaded RAM, I have to try two sticks (out of four) at a time. I have labeled them and have been swapping them out.

    For the purposes of nailing down the problem, I have been running the Torture Test with the Blended setting. Each RAM stick has been given the name A, B, C or D.

    A + B = Error after a minute and a half
    C + D = No error after ten minutes
    A + D = Error after a minute and a half
    B + C = No error after ten minutes

    Based on this series of tests, Stick A must be the bad ram-stick.

    When I purchase replacement ram, I assume I must get ram that is the same speed as the rest of the RAM.

    My type: Corsair XMS CMX512-3200XL 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2.0-2-2-5 @ 200 MHz)

    I am concerned that I won't be able to confirm that I'm getting the exact same RAM as what I have. Is the relevant identifier "CMX512-3200XL"? Basically, if I buy the (two sticks of) ram that have that code, am I safe?
     
  22. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    I could be wrong, but, I think you may have a tough time finding that exact same ram now. I would try 2 sticks that tested good in slots 1 and 3. If you can run it a few days without blue screening, then try to search for matching ram. If you can't find ram that matches, you can run the 2 512's or buy 2 new 1gig sticks of DDR 400. Kingston, G.Skill, A-Data, Corsair, Patriot, all have good reviews on Newegg. This is just my view of the situation, for what it's worth. Run just the two 1gig sticks in slots 1 and 3 of course.
     
  23. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    As you figured, it is very hard for me to find this RAM type. My wife was bewildered that the RAM is considered old, but I've been building systems long enough to roll my eyes and say, "but it is".

    I did a search and could find nothing. 1GB won't be enough for what I do on the PC, so I have to upgrade. Is it possible to still use the two 512MB sticks in addition to two 1GB sticks? If so, what would be the thing that I need to watch out for? I have a hazy recollection that chip timing is a factor, but I don't know much more.

    Thanks again!
     
  24. Elder_Usr

    Elder_Usr Sergeant

    Hmm, interesting. I really don't know at this point Doc, I'm honestly going to say that I do not know enough about the actual hardware that way to make a decision, just incase something does bust. But, i'm sure there is someone here that probably can help. :) But I think either the whole, replacement of the bad RAM, or even running two different mb's, may work. And the clock that your talking about is that they all have to have the same clock speed. Such as 400Mhz, 533..ect.
     
  25. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    If you buy 2 new 1gig sticks you will at least be equal to what you have been running. I have thrown together some machines with mismatched ram with no problems, but it's not advisable for stability. Your motherboard lists DDR 333 and 400. You should stay with no faster than DDR 400 just for the simple fact that motherboards are sometimes very picky about ram. I would advise using 2 new matched 1gig sticks, (they will have the same timing). Save your good 512's in case of a malfunction of the newer ram later on down the road. This could mean the difference of having your machine up and running or just sitting there in case of your ram failing later on. Just put them in a safe place.
    As a side note, check out the sticky in the overclocking forum. It has some very good info on ram. There is also a link there to another site about ram.
    Both are very good reading.
    Hope this helps.
     
  26. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Thanks so much, guys. I really appreciate the guidance. I'm going to read those referenced posts in the overclockers forum and see if I can't reason out my options.

    I'm writing this from my netbook on a bus-commute, so I'll keep it brief. :)
     
  27. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Just when I thought I had the problem nailed down, I came home to find that my computer crashed no fewer than eight times today. Removing the (allegedly) bad RAM did nothing. After re-running the Prime95 tests, I have found that every single configuration of two 512MB RAM chips results in errors. However, I've now run more types of tests and found something interesting.

    Test Type:

    Torture Test (Small FFTs (maximum FPU stress, data fits in L2 cache, RAM not tested much)

    Test Result:

    Test 1, 800000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M172031 using FFT length 8K.
    FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
    Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.
    Torture Test completed 0 tests in 2 minutes - 1 errors, 0 warnings.
    Worker stopped.

    In searching for solutions, I came across the following post from the Unreal Tournament forums. It appears related to what I'm dealing with.


    From this page:
    http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=4929296
    (Edited for a few spelling & grammar issues)

    I finally tried out the Prime95 blended test today and got exactly [that error] in no time at all. Of course, this was after I tweaked, prodded, and probed everything in sight for the last two weeks. Mine would just crash when ever it felt like it, while playing - otherwise it worked fine.

    I fooled with some of the memory settings and got it to pass the Prime95 test for about an hour. Ten minutes into UT, it crashed.
    Still keeping the memory problem in mind, I looked at Corsair's site (my memory is Corsair) for some clues. After rereading my mobo's manual again, I tried raising the memory voltages to no affect. Then it finally dawned on me that I'm using PC3200 RAM and it says its running at 400Mhz, but the board only officially supports 333Mhz tops. I went into the bios and dropped the memory speed down to 333mhz and it runs UT like a charm now.


    I went into my BIOS and could not find any incorrectly set speeds. The speed of my ram was set for 200 Mhz, but I'm not exactly pro when it comes to navigating a BIOS. I've provided the relevant information regarding my motherboard and BIOS below:

    Motherboard Properties:

    ID: 10/31/2006-NF-CK804-6A61FB09C-00
    Name: Biostar NF4 Ultra-A9A

    Front Side Bus Properties:

    Bus Type: AMD Hammer
    Real Clock: 200 MHz
    Effective Clock: 200 MHz
    HyperTransport Clock: 1000 MHz

    Memory Bus Properties:

    Bus Type: Dual DDR SDRAM
    Bus Width: 128-bit
    DRAM-FSB Ratio: CPU/16
    Real Clock: 163 MHz (DDR)
    Effective Clock: 327 MHz
    Bandwidth: 5227 MB/s
    Ram Type: http://www.corsair.com/products/xms/default.aspx

    BIOS Properties:

    BIOS Type: Award
    BIOS Version: NF4 Ultra-A9A (NF4UAA31 4F)
    Award BIOS Type: Phoenix - Award WorkstationBIOS v6.00PG
    Award BIOS Message: NF4 Ultra-A9A (NF4UAA31 4F)
    System BIOS Date: 10/31/06
    Video BIOS Date: 02/14/08

    BIOS Manufacturer:

    Company Name: Phoenix Technologies Ltd.
    Product Information: http://www.phoenix.com/en/products/default.htm
    BIOS Upgrades: http://www.esupport.com/biosagent/index.cfm?refererid=40

    According to the BioStar website, there is a BIOS update available. However, I haven't owned a working floppy drive in years. When I visited Phoenix's website, I was appalled to find that they charge you to update your BIOS (along with other drivers). If there is no way to update the BIOS via Windows (and I searched for quite a while), I'm having some difficulty knowing just what I can do.

    While updating the BIOS might even be a good idea, the fact still remains that my PC was very recently given the whole new-Windows-on-a-new-hard-drive treatment, which should have had this thing working just like it did before these problems very suddenly materialized in the first place.

    Is there any way to test motherboards the way I tested the CPU/RAM with Prime95? For that matter, how do I know it's not my CPU causing this? I have a hard time believing that all four sticks of RAM went bad on the same day.

    As always, I appreciate any help you folks can offer. I only wish I knew more because I've very clearly hit the limit of what I already know.
     
  28. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    Back to the beginning, in your first post you said you had reinstalled Windows several times over the past year. When did you start having the blue screens ? And was anything changed on your machine just prior to the blue screens, software and/or hardware ?
     
  29. dhruv

    dhruv Private E-2

    ok so dropping the RAM frequency has gotten rid of the BSOD's?? can you confirm that first?? :)
     
  30. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Hi guys,

    That ram frequency-drop was quoted from the UT forum. I have done nothing on my own machine because I don't know exactly what I would do. Are we saying, I'd drop it below the 200 Mhz it current at (and which my mobo is rated for?)

    Initially, my blue screen issues were (I believe) driver related. Every time, in the past, that I had them, reinstalling Windows got rid of the issue. This newest round of troubles is different, though I was not aware of that in the beginning. This is the first time I've had this configuration of problems.

    No hardware has changed. I've had this hardware installed for quite some time, now. In fact, I've avoided making any modifications to the hardware precisely because I'm tired of making hardware modifications only to have new problems crop up.

    I hope that helps.
     
  31. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    Have you ran msconfig and used selective startup ? How about rolling back drivers to previous versions ?
    If you start with the most basic configuration, (mobo, cpu, vid card, 1 stick of ram), and use selective startup to see if the machine crashes. I would also just run the most necessary Microsoft critical updates and SP2 and not install SP3 yet. Run your machine and if it doesn't crash, then start adding services and updated drivers to see what crashes it. If it still crashes with just the basics running, then you need to start looking at hardware. What about your temps. ?
    It's hard to guess your problem without knowing exactly what you have tried already.
     
  32. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Hi Jeep,

    Thank you very much for your thoughts! To make things as clear as possible, I will respond to your recommendations in a line-by-line fashion:

    Have you ran msconfig and used selective startup?
    No, I have not. This is a brand new install of Windows and I hadn't considered what I would even do. I don't know what I would avoid running. There was no crap running in the background to begin with (besides the usual OS-stuff, I'm sure).

    How about rolling back drivers to previous versions?
    This is not possible since I've just installed Windows from scratch. There's no past drivers to go back to.

    If you start with the most basic configuration, (mobo, cpu, vid card, 1 stick of ram), and use selective startup to see if the machine crashes.
    I'm already doing this. I don't have any other peripherals to use, anyhow. Also, I can't use one stick of RAM. The motherboard screams (via beeps) if I try to do that, so I've had to put at least two sticks in.

    I would also just run the most necessary Microsoft critical updates and SP2 and not install SP3 yet.
    The next time I reinstall Windows, I will attempt to do this. Should I stop just short of installing SP3 and see how the computer performs? My thought, though, is that I had SP3 installed on every iteration of Windows that I've had in this computer and (previously) it never did a thing that I can see.

    Run your machine and if it doesn't crash, then start adding services and updated drivers to see what crashes it.
    I'd love to know more about what this means. As I mentioned, there are no previous drivers to go back to. As for services, I'm not sure what that means, either. (Forgive my apparent ignorance)

    If it still crashes with just the basics running, then you need to start looking at hardware. What about your temps?
    My temps are within the specs. When I last stress tested my CPU via Everest (45 minutes of 100% capacity), the PSU was holding quite steady within the normal parameters and my CPU never topped 62 degrees centigrade.

    Intended Actions Going Forward:
    My work's IT department was kind enough to loan me a floppy drive, mobo cable (for the drive), and a blank disk. I'm going to update the BIOS with these tools. Assuming that doesn't help, I will reinstall windows for a third time and do what I described above (stop short at SP3). Does this sound good?
     
  33. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I just had another thought - should I do a fresh install of Windows and then attempt to run that Prime95 test to see if I can coax the CPU & RAM into giving me errors?
     
  34. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    First, I,m at a loss to explain why your system won't run on 1 stick of ram. According to your mobo specs, 1 stick should work in DIMM 1 or DIMM 3. If you use 2 sticks, they should be placed in DIMM's 1 & 3.
    If you click start - run and then type in msconfig and then click OK. You will then see the System Configuration Utility. You can use the diagnostic startup. But, first click on the help button and click on "Create a clean environment for troubleshooting". This explains what to do without me listing everything in this post. You can print it if you want, which is probably a good idea. You can also click start - run and type in sfc /scannow and then click OK. This checks to see if Windows files are intact. It will probably ask for your Windows cd. Insert the cd and click retry. If the window from the cd comes up asking if you want to install Windows click on exit, and you should see Windows File Protection running. This takes a little while.
    Just a couple of things you can try for now.
    Other thoughts: since you do have a fresh install of Windows, with just the basic drivers and such, and you've added a new hard drive, and if the ram is not at fault, then it's a possibility that your motherboard could be on it's way out. It should run with 1 stick of ram, right ?
     
  35. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    More than a few folks have told me that my mobo should run with 1 stick. I can't tell you why it won't. I can't find anything in the bios to tell me whether I have to toggle that (or something).

    I will definitely do that clean environment for troubleshooting thing yo mentioned. I just like the sound of it. :)

    Way ahead of you on the sfc /scannow. I've done that every single time I've installed windows - it's a staple thing I do any time I think I'm having driver problems.

    Added info about this fresh install of windows: What I mean is that I install windows, then install one-by-one (rebooting after every one) installing the drivers from the Biostar webpage for my mobo. Then I update windows until it is considered "up to date". I mention that because that may not read as "fresh install" if you are technical. I'm not sure, though. I was under the impression that it's what I should be doing.

    Should I be installing my various drivers this way or should I use Windows Update for that stuff?

    I certainly hope my mobo isn't on its way out. It's the newest item in my whole rig. Anyway, thanks again, Jeep. You've responded so kindly to all my crap and I just want to reiterate that I appreciate it very much.
     
  36. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    I don't like to use Windows update for drivers. Get drivers from the manufacturer as you have been.
     
  37. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I just want to share the following. I didn't do any work on the system last night except for what's listed below:

    So on Tuesday, I had eight BSOD's over the course of the day. They hit my wife when she played Plants vs. Zombies a few times, at least one hit just sitting there on a blank desktop. The others happened during times that I wasn't aware of my PC's functions.

    But Wednesday (yesterday) was the most taxing PC day in recent memory. My wife and son played PvZ's for at least two hours. I had remote access running, pulpTunes hooking me up with my iTunes collection remotely. Then I came home and ran Folding@home while I played Team Fortress 2. My computer had zero BSOD's.

    So my question is where exactly on the motherboard do I go to find the gremlin, gut him, stuff him, and place him over my mantle? I mean, what the eff?
     
  38. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    Another thought, if you know someone with "spare" parts, such as a socket 939 mobo, ram, etc. you could swap out one item at a time.
    You could check ebay for a motherboard that you could swap in just to check. With patience you may get one at a good price.
     
  39. techsent

    techsent Corporal

    Hi DocBadwrench,

    It reads like the internal hardware is getting too hot. check the cpu fan, make sure its clean, unobstructed and spinning. If the video card has a fan, it could be stopping, thus the problem. also the power supply fan could be stopping at some point.

    also, you can try adding a seperate fan into the box (their not expensive $10-$20).

    Techsent
     
  40. ajw81

    ajw81 Private E-2

    Have you tried not using a video card and just running it with the on board video? Sorry if this has been suggested already.
     
  41. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Among my limiting factors is this: I do not have access to alternate parts. That's the whole reason I'm poking at you techies out there. Had I the money, I'd go out and get parts. I can't swap ram, try another power supply or install a new motherboard. Once my wife's done with school, I will buy a brand new computer, but I can't do that now. Imagine that $50 is a prohibitive expense right now.

    That limits the data I can collect - for sure. Regardless of the outcome (of the PC and my sanity) I want to again thank all of you who have been helping me through this trial. What follows is my blue-screen timeline for the past few days, obtained by opening the minidump with WinDbg and pulling the basic bugcheck analysis.

    Saturday (06/13/2009) 1 Crash
    9:09 PM - Probably caused by Unknown_Image ( ANALYSIS_INCONCLUSIVE )

    Sunday (06/14/2009) No Crashes
    I avoided using the computer at all and it spent most of the day shutdown.

    Monday (06/15/2009) 1 Crash
    5:23 PM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )

    Tuesday (06/16/2009) 7 Crashes
    8:56 AM - Probably caused by memory_corruption ( nt!MiPfPutPagesInTransition+a8 )
    9:24 AM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    10:43 AM - Probably caused by dxg.sys ( dxg!DdHmgLock+5e )
    11:23 AM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    2:01 PM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    2:41 PM - Probably caused by ntoskrnl.exe ( nt!WmipQueryLogger+260 )
    7:09 PM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )

    Wednesday (06/17/2009) No Crashes
    In spite of heavy game use and the aforementioned Folding@home with TF2 stress test, the PC ran beautifully.

    Thursday (06/18/2009) 1 Crash
    10:11 PM - Probably caused by memory_corruption ( nt!MiPfPutPagesInTransition+a8 )

    Friday (06/19/2009) 6 Crashes
    6:39 AM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    7:11 AM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    7:12 AM - Probably caused by nvata.sys ( nvata+12f63 )
    12:44 PM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    3:15 PM - Probably caused by processr.sys ( processr!AcpiC1Idle+12 )
    4:29 PM - Probably caused by dxg.sys ( dxg!DdHmgLock+5e )

    A LOOK AT MY BIOS' RAM SETTINGS

    Within the Phoenix BIOS, I have chosen Advanced Chipset Features, then DRAM Configuration. Within that, I have the following itemized options:

    Timing Mode: Currently Auto (may choose: Manual or Auto)
    When on Auto, I cannot change any other values. Once Manual is chosen, then I may alter the other values.

    Memclock index value (Mhz): 200Mhz (by default)
    May choose: 100Mhz, 133Mhz, 166Mhz, or 200Mhz

    CAS# latency (Tcl): 2.5 (by default)
    May choose: 2, 2.5, or 3

    Min RAS# active time (Tras): 8T (by default)
    May choose: 5T, 6T, 7T, 8T, 9T, 10T, 11T, 12T, 13T, 14T or 15T

    RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd): 4T (by default)
    May choose: 2T, 3T, 4T, 5T, 6T, or 7T

    Row precharge Time (Trp): 2T (by default)
    May choose: 2T, 3T, 4T, 5T, 6T, or 7T

    Row to Row delay (Trrd): 2T (by default)
    May choose: 2T, 3T, or 4T

    A word about my BIOS version: Technically, I can update my BIOS to bring it up-to-date. However, it was working just fine for 10 months or so before any of this started, so I wonder if I should bother (BIOS updates make me edgy). While I have obtained (from my work's IT department) a floppy drive, mobo connector, and a diskette, I realized this evening that I don't have a compatible power connecter to make it work. I will have to acquire an adapter if I decide to make the upgrade.

    Also, I cannot substitute a video card as the mobo doesn't have onboard video.

    ACTIONS TAKEN TONIGHT

    Before I make modifications to the RAM (based on feedback relating to the above information), I have taken some minor actions. I have found replacement SATA cables for all three hard drives, so have substituted them. These cords are unused and just ripped out of the package. Also, I gave the interior another good spraying. At some point over the past few days, I think that the front fan (that pushes air from the front to the rear fan), got stuck. I have unstuck it and its moving at its usual speed now.

    Also, I have done the scannow thing and it didn't blue screen. Other than being painfully slow, the OS booted just fine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  42. elbiatcho1

    elbiatcho1 Specialist

    nForce 4 chipsets are somewhat known to be problematic and buggy. Can cause data corruption.
     
  43. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    This is taken from the website: File.net You can check it out.

    The process Processor Device Driver belongs to the software Microsoft Windows Operating System by Microsoft Corporation (www.microsoft.com).

    Description: processr.sys is located in the folder C:\Windows\System32\drivers. Known file sizes on Windows XP are 35,328 bytes (85% of all occurrence), 30,592 bytes.
    The driver can be started or stopped from Services in the Control Panel or by other programs. The file is a Windows system file. The program has no visible window. File processr.sys is a Microsoft signed file. The service has no detailed description. The program is not active. Therefore the technical security rating is 0% dangerous, however also read the users reviews.

    Recommended: Identify processr.sys related errors

    Important: Some malware camouflage themselves as processr.sys, particularly if they are located in c:\windows or c:\windows\system32 folder. Thus check the processr.sys process on your pc whether it is pest. We recommend Security Task Manager for verifying your computer's security. It is one of the Top Download Picks of 2005 of The Washington Post and PC World.
     
  44. jeepdriver

    jeepdriver Private E-2

    dxg.sys, make sure you have the latest video drivers and direct x drivers
    nvata.sys, nvidia chipset drivers for your motherboard

    You have probably already done this but I thought I would mention it after looking at your debug file.
    Also, as far as BIOS updates, if it had been working fine for months with the current BIOS then normally there would be no need to update. But, your are having problems, which may or may not be BIOS related. You can look at the BIOS updates and see if they might address the problem you are having, otherwise I would leave that at a course of action if you have no luck with any other fixes.
    Your board doesn't have a floppy connector ???
     
  45. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I put out a whole bunch of threads, but will have to post a final follow-up so that more people can benefit from whatever the heck can be learned from this thread.

    Technical documentation seems to lack any reasonable way of assessing what the temperature-load of a system is. For instance: My video card is reasonably new (within the last year and a half), but my CPU is more like 3 years old. Right now, I only get intermittent blue screens when my wife plays Plants vs. Zombies (for god knows what reason).

    While my card is pretty new, the fact is that my blue screen instances went way down after I took a compressed-air can to it and created a wind tunnel from the front to and through the back. My next step is to buy a card-fan to attempt to draw excess heat from the videocard and hopefully drop the temp a few more degrees.

    Obviously, the one piece of advice you get from everyone is "swap every damned thing out of your PC and see when it stops failing". Of course, not all of us have an exact replacement part hanging around for this (my situation).

    This is kind of rambling (apologies), but let me leave you with this observation, which I did not find enough of - or fully appreciate - until this happened. As our hardware ages, it gets less reliable. We all know that. But it hadn't really sunk in that - in addition to that lowered performance, it also has a lower tolerance to heat that may never have seemed to bother it just a year ago.

    After what feels like an eternity, I have finally learned that lesson. I hope it's useful to any other person frantically googling and searching for answers to an interminable series of blue screens that crush the soul.

    I only get about one blue screen a week as of this posting. I can live with that until such time as a new system becomes a reality. In the mean time, I keep the PC very clean, make sure it's not running 24/7 and look for ways to keep the ambient temperature down.
     
  46. Heiler

    Heiler Private E-2

    I had exactly the same problems you were having.. and I'm using nforce4 too..

    I solved it lowering my FSB from 200mhz to 190mhz (using a software called SysTool)

    I discovered that the culprid was the motherboard itself while exchanging it (and ONLY it) with a new one (asus m3a78-em).. everything worked fine with it.. no bluescreens and NO errors on Prime95 (did u try it?)

    soo.. this is my advise.. underclock your motherboard coz it can't keep up even with its stock speed (I've never overclocked it..)

    hugs from brazil
    Heiler
     
  47. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Very interesting stuff, Heiler. I'm going to do that right now! I'll report back. What's funny is that I have a new thread with the newest round of problems I'm having and you responded to my old thread. :) Back soon...
     
  48. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    Okay, I've run into my first snag: I can't find my motherboard listed in the official list for SysTool. Where should I go to manually make this change? I can't seem to find the settings for the Front Side Bus.
     
  49. Heiler

    Heiler Private E-2

    choose "nForce4" in clock generator.. (inside cpu oveclocking)
    then you can slide to 190mhz or less and click on 'write' for it to take effect..

    did you check your +5v voltage with Everest or another app?? mine is always too high with this board.

    ps.: I didn't know of any other thread as I found this on google.. I've asked google about the problems I was having and it sent me here :p but we can change.. I'm reading the other one right now too
     
  50. DocBadwrench

    DocBadwrench Private E-2

    I've hesitated to post a reply because often - when I get my hopes up - whatever solution I try turns out not to work.

    However, after a few weeks of performing what you recommend, I can safely say: "Heiler, you are a god."

    This works perfectly. Since I have underclocked my FSB, I have had not one blue screen, and I've performed some pretty intensive stuff, like various games at high-quality.

    For those of you with the same problem, I can point you to this advice, courtesy of the good geeks from Brazil. :)
     

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