CPU Bug question

Discussion in 'Software' started by Kataklysmic Overkill, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    "Interrupts time placeholder"

    Taskinfo2003 recognizes this process as the one that's hogging almost all of my CPU resources intermittently. Does anyone have any clue as to what this process refers to and what might be causing it to do this? This happens in both XP and W2K but is much more frequent in XP. Never happens in WinME or 98SE. Any ideas?
     
  2. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Got a name for the process?

    Off the top of my head it sounds like it might be talking about System Idle Process.

    If it shows 99-ish cpu useage, thats normal.

    Just means your computer isn't doing anything and is actually idle ;)
     
  3. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    I know all about system idle and all that jive, that and trojans were the first things I excluded. Look at the screenie and you'll witness my dilemma. This is a critical windows process I guess? And I can't kill it. Right now it's only using 80% of my CPU but it'll go to a hundred at any time. This is so annoying, my computer is basically useless scrapmetal because of this.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. alanc

    alanc MajorGeek

    What process in Windows Task Manager is eating that CPU time?
     
  5. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member


    If I squint a bit Alan I think its Interrupts Time Placeholder.




    Whats your system specs Kataklysmic Overkill if older PC this may be something I have seen before... an issue with older machines not liking ACPI unless a Bios update is available.
     
  6. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    Asrock K7S8X mobo
    1.8 ghz XP 2200
    Soundblaster Live! value
    Radeon 8500LE
    Win2k patched to the hilt with SP4 and all fixes
    Newest Catalyst drivers and sound drivers

    The thing is that multimedia is what often causes the CPU usage to jump to 100%, eg. sounds in a game or loading an internet page with heavy usage of images and also streaming media. I'm guessing the soundcard could be the culprit?

    How big are the chances of screwing up if I flash the bios? Keeping in mind that the computer could freeze at any moment in the process...
     
  7. alanc

    alanc MajorGeek

    Yeah I was just wondering what Windows had to say about it vs. that 3rd party task info utility he's using...

    But I think you're right Halo, it confirms what I found here:

    http://www.dansdata.com/danletters053.htm

    scroll down to "CPU Sucker"
    Some way that 2k/XP interacts with ACPI perhaps? Sounds like he's got a multi-boot machine with it not affecting 98/ME. Looks like a BIOS update or turning off ACPI is the answer.
     
  8. alanc

    alanc MajorGeek

  9. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

  10. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    The mobo is almost new, still on warranty. I'll try and flash it if I can't turn the ACPI of. If that don't work then it's hardware valhalla for this POS computera.
     
  11. alanc

    alanc MajorGeek

    If it's almost new, then it might already have the latest BIOS revision, I think the date on the one I posted was October '03...?

    Let us know if turning off ACPI in the BIOS has an effect.
     
  12. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    These 2 options were the only ones that hinted at disabling ACPI in W2K so I changed them to the following:

    Suspend to RAM (S3) = ACPI S3 Disabled
    PCI Device Power up on PCI = Disabled

    No change whatsoever. Tried switching them around but no dice there either. All powersaving features are OFF and there is no option for enabling APM in the powersaving options. So I guess all the updates and servicepacks have left me with permanent ACPI turned on. Device manager still says my computer is "ACPI Uniprocessor PC". I guess I'll have to install XP over W2k and hope it'll be easier to turn it off there somehow. No way am I flashing the bios on a 5 month year old Mobo.
     
  13. General_Lee_Stoned

    General_Lee_Stoned BuZZed Lightyear

    hi overkill if you decide to install xp without ACPI
    when you start the set-up and get the message to PRESS F6 to install third party raid drivers you need to press F5 instead and after a few seconds you will be given the option to install standard pc instead of ACPI
     
  14. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    My Bios reference was to if you had an old PC or mobo in which now with some specs at hand you don't! so flashing the Bios is now more of a last resort if at all as bios flashing just for the sake of it is never warrented ( unless you have a dual bios ).

    you have a Soundblaster Live PCI card installed?

    I notice your mobo has onboard sound as well... if its enabled in the Bios.. disable it.


    plus do you have all 4 of those OS's installed or was it just more a reference to it not happening in the 9x OS's and happening in XP/2k?
     
  15. alanc

    alanc MajorGeek

    I don't blame you there. At this point I'm doubtful that it really is an ACPI issue...

    Halo it sounds like you're on the trail :)
     
  16. goldfish

    goldfish Lt. Sushi.DC

    I had a very simelar problem with my old XP machine, which was solved when i disabled onboard sound. These days im running 2 sound cards simultaneously with no problems whatsoever.
     
  17. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    APIC enabled is probably the bug not ACPI. Why you dont see in in old OS cause they dont support APIC. Should work but SBlive might mess it up? APIC is like the opposite of old SbLive regarding IRQ. Chipset drivers? Yes try disable all onboard features not necessary for boot, take out SBlive card - may be also reinstal SiS chipset drivers and see what happens.

    You can uninstall APIC/change mode as said, F6, F5 but if you dont disable it in bios then I think XP/2K will rededect it during following boot and you have gone no where. Next problem is then Asrock crippled bios and you not wanting to flash ;) Bios/chipset have APIC setting but it is hidden - setting is enabled as you will know. So you must unhide it. I bet that has been done, check www.ocworkbench.com but only if you want to work. Not risky if you know what you are doing. Anyway they do have a good Asrock forum.

    Way to change mode without reinstall of OS is change cpu-hal driver to standard acpi pc, reboot, disable APIC in bios, boot. A few devices might be redetected but it should work. APIC, ACPI work for most ppl on newer hw so disable is last solution. May be you have special Sblive vs. SiS APIC problem, dont know - or Sblive vs. SiS APIC problem when certain onboard features are enabled and Sblive not in most free pci-slot ;) APIC is suppoesed to take care of irqs virtually but still a good idea to set up computer as if it was old days. But guess you allready have sblive in least sharing slot?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2004
  18. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest


    Be careful.

    Turning off ACPI in the bios of an ACPI enabled NT based OS=no boot.
     
  19. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    I managed to install Xp over W2K by some divine intervention. Replaced ACPI with Standard System and the problem vanished completely. Quite a nasty little bug I had no idea even existed. Disabled onboard sounds also just to be safe. I'll have to see if this causes anything else to fail but so far so good. Thanx for all the suggestions dudes and dudettes. Cheers.
     
  20. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    Nice but look for OS automatically updating HAL-driver to old "ACPI Uniprocessor PC". Wonder what will happen if you let it look for new hardware? APIC, not same as ACPI, is still enabled in bios per default but you have forced OS to forget about it. Didnt think that would work but it does. Now irq-layout will be like in old days, 15irqs. Must suit Sblive card better, most likely to be troublemaker ;)

    This is APIC http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/platform/proc/IO-APIC.mspx
     
  21. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest


    Not gonna happen.

    HAL installation doesnt happen out of the blue. It has to be initiated by the user , or setup during the install.
     
  22. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    maybe it could in a space odyssey ;)


    I do think the Soundblaster card is the root of this issue but if its working ok without ACPI then great if you don't like it without ACPI we maybe can look into a workaround....... to save me looking Kataklysmic Overkill try yourself and search google for instances along this line http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=acpi+soundblaster+xp and you may find a fix.
     
  23. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    You mean to tell me I'll have problems with installing new hardware in the future without the "Superior Interrupt Architecture" of APIC or ACPI or whatever? Like in the good old days of interrupt conflicts?

    The high cpu usage is totally gone but I had a complete system freeze while I had only winamp playing just now. So I guess the Soundblaster is causing me grief in another form now. What is the most compatible new soundcard out there right now that works best with XP? I've had this SB working great for many years but I guess it's time has now finally come to an end. I'll try googling for an XP+soundblaster conflict issue but frankly I might as well get a better one anyway come next week. 4-5 years is good mileage for any computer hardware nonetheless.
     
  24. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    No. I just checked and standard PC is permanent. No liftoff. What a mess btw, hehe. However I would have tried ACPI PC before going to standard PC. Now you have taken out both ACPI and APIC so you dont know what cured problem. I think APIC cause you had no prob. in other OS with ACPI enabled, APIC only active in 2K/XP- add "APIC" to google search and you will see. I think only very old hw cant deal with ACPI and yours not that old. APIC hmm, even KT333 mobos had it disabled as default, now all use it but you have to know details of chipset, bios to find out more. APIC is enabled in bios even if you dont see it, one of the beta-bios makes it an option :) You are safe now tho. Even NF2 chipset have had some problems with APIC, not long ago many adviced to disable it.

    So what irq-layout you have now? Sblive happy on its own?

    http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=30 is where you should search. Unlikely you are the only one with sblive and Xp/2k. If you set it up optimal you shouldnt have problems, most ppl dont change HaL driver ;) http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=003246#000005 hmm so Asrock say pci slot 2 for soundcard - may be so. Notice the many irqs from that sblive user, those you dont have now.

    Actually I think some hardware expect computer to have ACPI enabled or am I wrong? Anyway it is an old dusty fix to avoid that but if it works who cares :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2004
  25. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    He didn't disable APIC at all. He chose a different HAL.
    Its ACPI or standard HAL.

    If he chose standard, then that means his last HAL was ACPI.
     
  26. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Actually as I understand it, if you choose Standard HAL, you can't use APIC or ACPI.

    Because APIC support is included in the ACPI HAL. Its an all or nothing sorta thing, unless you can disable it in the bios.

    http://www.musicxp.net/installing_tips.htm

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2004
  27. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    It was APIC because I turned ACPI of in BIOS and it didn't help in any way. The SB seems a bit merrier so I guess I can hang in there with a random lockup or two daily until I buy a new one. Unlucky configuration I guess.
     
  28. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Turning off acpi in the bios never will help, unless you reinstall your OS after.
     
  29. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    Im a little confused now, hehe. I suggest you scan that forum, they should know details.

    Adrynalyne, I think he had ACPI+APIC then went to no ACPI, no APIC (plain std. pc) when changing HAL right? What I meant was to pick ACPI only. Was worried cause APIC still enabled in bios no matter what by as you said no need to cause OS dont redetect unless asked to - or during reinstall.
     
  30. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    ACPI/APIC system (mine):

    IRQ 0 System timer OK
    IRQ 1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard OK
    IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK
    IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
    IRQ 5 NVIDIA nForce PCI System Management OK
    IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK
    IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK
    IRQ 9 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System OK
    IRQ 10 MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device OK
    IRQ 12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse OK
    IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
    IRQ 14 NVIDIA NForce 2(tm) SPP/IGP ATA Controller OK
    IRQ 15 NVIDIA NForce 2(tm) SPP/IGP ATA Controller OK
    IRQ 16 U.S. Robotics 56K Fax PCI OK
    IRQ 19 RADEON 9700 PRO OK
    IRQ 20 Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller OK
    IRQ 20 NVIDIA(R) nForce(TM) Audio Codec Interface OK
    IRQ 21 Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller OK
    IRQ 21 NVIDIA nForce MCP Networking Controller OK
    IRQ 21 OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller OK
    IRQ 22 Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller OK
    IRQ 22 NVIDIA(R) nForce(TM) MCP Audio Processing Unit (Dolby(R) Digital) OK


    ACPI only system:



    IRQ 0 System timer OK
    IRQ 1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard OK
    IRQ 11 Intel(r) 82801AA USB Universal Host Controller OK
    IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
    IRQ 14 Primary IDE Channel OK
    IRQ 15 Secondary IDE Channel OK
    IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK
    IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
    IRQ 5 MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device OK
    IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK
    IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK
    IRQ 9 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System OK
    IRQ 9 Lucent Win Modem #2 OK
    IRQ 9 NETGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet Adapter (NGRPCI) OK
    IRQ 9 Intel(r) 82801AA SMBus Controller OK
    IRQ 9 Intel(r) 82801AA AC'97 Audio Controller OK


    If you disabled ACPI in your bios, you disabled APIC support in the OS.

    Unless you can disable APIC in your bios, you will never know which one the OS had a problem with.
     
  31. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Well...I think he probably did have APIC+ACPI prior to choosing standard, which removes OS support for both.

    The thing is, you can't simply choose acpi only without turning off apic support in the bios. Which, unless I read you guys wrong, isn't an option in his current revision. So, unfortunately we don't know which was the problem.
     
  32. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    I dont think he can turn off either ACPI or APIC in bios. Both permanently enabled by Asrock. Those 2 settings mentioned earlier doesnt do that. So only way is to force OS which seem to work ok. Give option of std. pc, acpi pc, and uniprocessor. Now 2 of them have been tested :) ACPI compliant PC or what the term is will look just like std. pc, same fixed 15irqs but will be ACPI compliant ;) Very old hw might have problem with ACPI, much more with APIC I think. Sblive can easily work with ACPI and I seem to remember some hw demanding or at lest prefering it? but of course this is on SiS and specific mobo/bios so may be other facts. Check the forum, fellow users will know. May be more than one solution to same problem but one could be the better, heh.

    Still best to use perfect pci-slot for that beast no matter mode. May be also disable some onboard stuff not used. Could be some weird chipset/mobo bug.

    Yes I also think APIC depend on ACPI but will not bet too much money on it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2004
  33. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    ACPI could be turned of in BIOS but APIC could only be turned of in XP. This is what helped. The ACPI setting being on or not has no significance either way, it works as long as APIC is replaced with Standard in XP's device manager. The AC97 sound is turned of so I guess that might help summit too. My mobos BIOS is like dated august-03 so I don't think old hardware or BIOS is responsible. The soundcard must go methinks.
     
  34. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Actually, APIC can't be turned off byt itself persay in the OS, what you instead did was disabled acpi, which disables anything advanced like apic as well ;)
     
  35. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    acpi as an option? not what i read in manual or can figure out on that forum, some ask for that option (beta-bios to the rescue) but you have screen in front of you. May be we can say that if you dont get problems with hw demanding ACPI you are just as well off with std. pc? ;)

    No Asrock know what they are doing, acpi/apic all the way cause that works for most. May be all onboard features depend on APIC? Hard to tell but if it turns out other slot for sblive makes problems go away you are no. xxxxxxxxx to find that out. Not sure sblive is to blaim tho but hard to fall over it.
     
  36. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    ACPI S3 = Disabled. This is an option in my bios that I switched to no avail. I don't know what works for most but I have to have APIC disabled or it won't work. As I said, I must have bad luck with my current configuration. I've tried switching slots for the SB but that does not make any difference. I remember switching PCI slots all the time back in the Win98 days because of Interrupt conflicts, but this is evidently not the root cause in this instance. Nothing else but the SB could be the cause since most all instances of failure include me playing back sound in one way or the other.
     
  37. JSDK

    JSDK Private E-2

    Ok, you will survive with new audio card :)

    Yeah there is some mention of ACPI but not to disable. "S3" is a suspend mode There should be an ACPI function on/off but not there I think.
     
  38. kilowatt

    kilowatt Private E-2

    When you disabled onboard sound did you also disable gameport and midi? These may be causing problems and may not just thought I'd throw this in.:D
     
  39. Kataklysmic Overkill

    Kataklysmic Overkill Private E-2

    Hahaha, thanx for throwing that in dude, I'll have to try that too. I just woke up 15 minutes ago and the damn thing was at 100% again. "Interrupt timeholder" was hoggin all the juice YET AGAIN. It's still on standard setting. God damn it all to hell.
     

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