Boot up problem.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by wildwolf220, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Im having a problem with my main PC and hope you guys will be able to help.
    It started when i go an error message last week.
    I went to event viewer and got this.
    I posted in software, and Halo advised me to update the graphics card drivers which i did. GeForce 7100 GS.
    It ran fine until now but here's the problem. sometimes it wont boot up now.
    When i try to turn it on i get no display at all, just a sound like it's trying to boot then just a clicking sound. other days it will boot up:confused
    I thought it might be an overheating problem, so i took the case off and cleaned out what dust was there, *not a lot though*. and cleaned all the vents.
    Could this be the graphics card failing or a power supply problem.
    Would the no display point to the graphics card? I dont know a lot about hardware so bare with me;)
    Thanks for any advice in advance.
     
  2. Remoc

    Remoc Private E-2

  3. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Thanks remoc but i have updated the drivers.
     
  4. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Clicking sound eh, it could be a hard drive issue, have you tested it yet?
     
  5. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    No augie but if i can get it to boot again i will check.
    Last time i had an HD died on me i at least had a display with an error message. But this time nothing.
    Thats whats making me think it's something else.
     
  6. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    You can burn a standalone CD and boot that way, and if you still can't boot then yes, it could be something else. Data Lifeguard is good but most drive maker's have their own.
     
  7. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    Hi Wolfie, what happens in safe mode and BIOS to the display?

    Do you have any linux CDs or a recovery CD with you anti virus that can boot the pc independant of the system?

    PM me a tel no if you want a chat about it.
     
  8. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Cheers stu:)
     
  9. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Hey, no fair man! :cry At least keep us updated eh?;)
     
  10. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    roflmao will do augie
    Im a hardware n00b so i need all the help i can get:-D
     
  11. Kestrel13!

    Kestrel13! Super Malware Fighter - Major Dilemma Staff Member

    I'm the same way LOL Hate hardware and networking YUK
     
  12. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    This is a Vista pc so must be fairly recent.

    There was a deal of trouble over an unreliable Nvidia graphics chip about 1 to 2 years ago.

    Does the age fit into this? Is the graphics card an upgrade or original and does the pc have graphics on the motherboard as well?

    Is the Vista an upgrade or original?

    Again since the pc is fairly recent I would not start by suspecting the hard drive.
    You need to do the experiment to see if it will start reliably to BIOS and from another operating system to check this.

    And also check to see if it will start reliably to safe mode, where the video drivers are not deployed.
     
  13. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    A failing or stressed power supply can sure give confusing symptoms. I would swap in a known good just to eliminate that from the equation.
     
  14. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Hey guys.
    The disc check says healthy,
    Yes the PC is 15 months old. The graphics card is the original. And i dont think there is one on the motherboard.
    It's original.
    At the minute it started up normally and it starts fine in safe mode. Next time it fails to boot i will try safe mode again.
     
  15. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    That's easy to check. Just look at rear of the case in the rear I/O Panel area - the small rectangular section where your keyboard and mouse plug in. If there is a video connector, you have on-board graphics.
     
  16. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    I know it's difficult for you but by 'start reliably in safe mode' I mean 5 to 10 times in a row, shut down and start up. And then run for say half an hour withour demur.
     
  17. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    Yes there are video connectors at the back. but if one is for onboard graphice i dont know:-o
    And here lies the problem.
    When it's running normally like now, it will boot up in safe mode that many times.
    I will need to wait until it starts having the problem again to see if it will boot to safe mode then.
    Sorry for messing you guys about, but when it fails to boot again i will post back and let you know about safe mode boot up.
     
  18. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    If it is in that Rear panel I/O area, then yes, that is on-board graphics.

    So in other words, and maybe we should whisper, it is working now and we don't want to mess it up! ;) I suspect we all understand that.

    But, it is likely to happen again so you should prepare by backing up anything on your drives you don't want to lose - and you should probably do that now.

    And if you have anything not needed connected such as external hard drives, photo printers, cameras or other USB devices, unplug them too.

    If this were the hard drive - or if the hard drive was not even connected, you should still see the initial graphics splash screen, and part of the POST. Then it will fail when it cannot find a boot drive. So I don't think HD itself is failing.

    You might also back up to Halo's recommendation, but this time, uninstall this newer driver version, and reinstall the older one that did work - perhaps a reinstall was all that was needed, not an upgrade.
     
  19. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    All pretty good advice from Digerati, I'll await developments.

    Do you know how to 'roll back a driver' ?

    We're still with you Wolfie ;)
     
  20. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    No i didn't mean that at all, i meant i cant make it fail to boot i just have to wait until it does.
    I really want to find out why it's happening and get if fixed.
    No i don't stu. But i don't understand. I had the problem before and after i updated the drivers
     
  21. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Edit.... I figured out how to roll back the graphics drivers:dancer
    I gone and learned me something:)
     
  22. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Don't you hate that? ;)
     
  23. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Well since taking the cover off and cleaning out the vents,Things seam to be running fine now. If the problem returns i will post back guys.
    Thanks for all the help.
     
  24. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Thanks for the update.
     
  25. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    So, how much crud did you get out in the end? I'm just curious as I have a 6 year old rig dripping with dust that still works well.:confused I guess not all rigs are built the same.:)
     
  26. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Quite a lot of dust bunnies from the vents augie. they were totally blocked:-o
    Not much dust inside thought. I will know now to check more often;)
     
  27. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Nor do they all use high wattage devices, nor do all generate as much heat as others, nor do all have the same front to back air flow. But, since heat is the bane of all electronics, you are not doing the hardware any favors by keeping it toasty under a blanket of dust.
     
  28. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Excellent points there sir. I haven't had my coffee yet, that must be it.:-o:-D
     
  29. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    Excellent point since case design has changed a lot recently. Attached are some photos of the current (slimline) Dell Dimension.

    The air intake mesh is behind a styled front bumper. A fan is mounted immediately behind the mesh. The black box is the cooling fan and cowling assembly.
    Air is drawn through the mesh by the fan and passed over the processor heatsink and then over the rest of the motherboard, to exit through the holes visible at the rear.

    Because the airflow is inward at the front fluff etc is pulled onto the grille and is held there by the suction of the fan. This case was totally blocked, until I cleaned it. The rear vents were clear as the air flow is outwards.

    The good news about this design is that at least the front vents are easily availble for cleaning in situ.

    Photos 1 and 2 are from the front with the cowling down, photo 3 is from the rear with the cowling up.
     

    Attached Files:

  30. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    That seams the same set up as mine eric with the back to front air flow.
    As i said the front vents on mine were completely blocked.
    So im guessing the problem i was having was due to overheating.
    If i put my hand at the back of the comp now, i can feel the air flow coming out.
     
  31. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    If you have back to front - it is wrong. You should have cool air being drawn into the front (and any other hole/vent) and hot air being exhausted out the back (or some times top, with a "blowhole"). Note the PSU fan also exhausts out the back to support this flow. Finally, he said,
     
  32. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    My mistake i meant Front to backroflmao
    As i said i can feel the air flowing out the back now:)
    And it wasn't before i cleaned it out.
     
  33. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)


    You had me :confused there for a bit.:-D
     
  34. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Thats my excuse to augie:-D
     
  35. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Ok guys the problem is back again, turned it on this morning no display again.
    I tried to boot it up in safe mode but no go. I tried it about 5 times in each mode but i get nothing but a clicking sound.
    What i cant understand is it will boot up ok for a while then one day it wont.
    Then a few days later it will boot up.
    The display flickered and stalled briefly yesterday but came back again if that means anything. I checked event viewer but there was no error listed.
    I appreciate your help everyone.
     
  36. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Nothing but a clicking sound often means the drive - assuming the clicks are mechanical sounds coming from inside the computer case, and not the speakers. But, you should be able to disconnect all drives, reboot, and still see the initial stages of the boot process on your monitor because the drive is not touched until the BIOS learns from the CMOS memory module where the boot device is - and when none of the boot devices listed are found, you will see on the monitor that no boot device is found.

    You get nothing on the monitor so my advice from 2 weeks ago still applies. Start by swapping in a power supply you know to be good, and of ample power.
     
  37. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    I dont know enought about this to attempt to swap power supply or the other things thats been suggested:-o
    Im going to have to wait until i can afford to leave it in somewhere to get it looked at.
    Thanks again for all the advice everyone.
     
  38. plodr

    plodr Major Geek Super Extraordinaire

    wildwolf220, I'm a senior citizen and a female to boot and I figured out how to replace a power supply. You CAN do this!

    If you have a digital camera, you take a picture of what wires go where. If you don't have a digital camera, it takes longer but it is doable...you make a drawing. I put the new power supply aside of the old one. I remove 1 connector from the old supply and replace in the same spot with the new power supply. Do this until the old power supply has no more connections to the computer. Screw in the new supply, wrap up the wires but do not put the side back on yet. Put the power cord into the new supply and turn on the computer. If it doesn't blow up (I'm kidding) you can shut it off, close up the computer, attach the keyboard monitor and mouse and be back in business.
     
  39. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Thanks for the reply plodr:)
    The problem i would have is i only have partial use of my hands.
    I cant use a screwdriver for example.
    I wouldn't be able to do it myself, and if i asked my wife to do it the answer would be " Your kidding right ":)
    Im going to have to ask a friend or someone to do whatever needs done for me.
    Thats if we can track down the problem.
     
  40. Digerati

    Digerati Major Geek Extraordinaire

    Swapping out a car battery is easy too, but there's no shame in taking it to a professional repair shop, there they are responsible for any collateral damage.
     
  41. plodr

    plodr Major Geek Super Extraordinaire

    wildwolf220, you are off the hook. I understand. ;) Physical limitations rather than mental. That's okay.
    My husband leaves the room when I start pulling all the connectors from the computer. He says, "I could never do that." Last time, I showed him before I connected everything that the majority of connectors only have one spot that matches so it is pretty hard to get wrong. He isn't ready to try connecting things but he realizes it isn't quite as scary as he thought it was.
     
  42. wildwolf220

    wildwolf220 Oracle of Doom

    Thanks plodr:)
    Its a pain having relying on others to do things for you:(
    Sadly its just something i have had to get used to since my accident.
    Your hubby is a lucky man;) wish my wife was as interested in computer maintenance :)
     
  43. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    Interestingly one of my callouts today was a pc that had suddenly developed boot problems and no video..............

    10 minutes to open, blow away some dust, prove the power supply was failing and fit a new one. 5 of those minutes were spent chatting to the user.

    The payroll was then completed on time and I polished my Halo.

    Cheers
     

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