PC shutting off... heat the cause?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by pentupanger, May 17, 2005.

  1. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    I am having trouble pinpointing the cause of the shutdowns, but I will tell you what I know.

    Biostar M7NCD-Pro motherboard, AMD Athlon 2700+ CPU, 1Ghz RAM, 450-500w PSU (I dont remember which, but it was over what I needed at the time I bought it), and GF4 4400ti video card (also had it shutdown with my Radeon 9600 installed). I have 3 fans for intake/exhaust, and a CPU fan/heatsink. Normally I would leave the PC on for days (sometimes weeks) at a time.

    I was playing Final Fantasy XI (mmorpg) a couple of weeks ago, and all of the sudden the game just quits and it throws me back to the desktop (not shutting off the PC yet) I figure it might be my rumble function on my controller so I just log back on and everything is ok for a couple of days... then it happens again. This has been going on for the last 2-3 weeks, never before that when I played it.

    About a week ago I cleaned out my case with canned air and a vacuum, and decided to leave the side of the case open, then it happened again. So I chalk it up to something wrong with my video card maybe, so I switch out cards, and by this time I have a new game to mess with... Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst (open beta).

    So after about 2 hours of me playing PSO:BB the PC just randomly shuts off (instant off not logging off)... so I turn the PC back on.. it boots up and gets to the blue screen pre-password box on WinXP then shuts off again. At this time I realize the CPU (or something) might be getting hot... So I left the PC alone and off for the night.

    The next day (yesterday) I turn it back on and put a fan blowing into the case (the side of the case is still off)... it works fine that day. I turn the PC off for the night.

    Then today, with the fan blowing into the case and me playing PSO:BB for about an hour, the PC shuts off again. At this time I promptly switch it back on and notice the temp of the CPU to around 52C or so... which isnt deadly bad. Once it boots all the way into Windows, I reboot the PC... this time (only 1-2min after the first temp reading) it shows 32C-34C, so I decide to get a CPU temp program (Motherboard Monitor 5) so I can watch the temp during gameplay. During gameplay I watch the case temp goto 52C (not sure what the case temp is), and the CPU temp hover around 49C-51C, but the PC doesnt shut off this time. During yesterday and today I always have a fan blowing into the case.

    I would like to know what you people think it might be and if there are any other 'tests' to go through.

    I figure I would buy some thermal compound and a new CPU heatsink/fan, but if you all think it might be something else I am all ears.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Nitrowing

    Nitrowing Specialist

    The case temp (sometimes refers to motherboard temp) is way too high. Is your PSU fan working properly?
     
  3. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    Its best to exaust all software problems first then move on to hardware fixes especially if the computer has been running fine,saying that summer is coming and comps that worked fine in winter,could use some arctic silver factor 5.So I think you should-get all the latest updates from windows,check for driver updates for your hardware,chipset,sound card, and reinstall the latest video card drivers from nvidia,but first make sure you remove any old drivers and use drivercleaner available in the download section at major geeks,you can also try running a 3d mark program like 3dmark2003 and see if it completes it,I like to use speedfan and set up recording charts while 3dmark is running,"The charts look cool and scientific,hehe",To try and rule out the software/games you are using. :)
     
  4. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    When I glanced at the PSU and its fan... the fan was running, but I couldnt tell you if it was going on and off though.


    Here is what is happening as I type: I just turned on the PC about 10-15min ago. After boot-up I connected to the net using my dial-up account, then opened AOL. On AOL I came here to check the board. Case temp is 47C and the CPU temp is 50C. I didnt start any games, or anything that I consider to be a PC-workhorse program (except AOL, heh). I am using the AOL browser :'( .

    I did buy some thermal compound and a new CPU fan/heatsink, but I have a question about the hetasink/fan... It is a Cooler Master brand and the guy at the store said it didnt need thermal compound on it. I looked through the instructions and it doesnt mention anything about thermal compound, so I am guessing the guy is right. He said that some was already on it, and when I looked it looks like it has a thin layer of 'something' on it where the compound usually goes... kinda looks like a screen to me, but I guess it could be some compound.

    What do you think?
     
  5. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    Update:

    Started the Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst program and within 5mins the temp readout was 52C case and 60C CPU, and this wasnt with the game running... just the program started.

    I still havent put the new fan/heatsink on yet... waiting for input.
     
  6. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    Update at 20:10ish...

    Burning a CD... CPU temp: 59C (so far) and Case temp: 51C.

    nothing running except AOL, dialup account (DUN), and DVD decrypter.... (and WinXP of course).

    PC hasnt shut off today. When PSO:BB had the CPU temp up to 60C I was scared to actually play the game so I closed the game.
     
  7. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    I spent a fair amount of time to help you compiling my post and you havn't responded to them,or recognized them,if you have tried everything I mentioned why not say so?If not,describe what is wrong with my suggestions?Its as though you have continued the description of your problem and ignored what I said.
     
  8. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2


    I built this PC over a year ago and it is just now having this problem within the last 3-4 weeks, so I figured that would rule out any driver changes since I havent updated ANY drivers in over 6 months (or longer) this includes Windows... except the video card which I switched out after the problem started, and since I didnt have the problem after I updated the drivers and/or programs I figured hardware is at fault.

    I looked for the "drivercleaner" program, but I am unsure if you meant a program to deal with drivers and old drivers that arent being used, or if you meant a drive cleaner.. which clean unused files and stuff that isnt being used off of the hard drives.

    I looked for a 3dmark2003 program, but couldn't find it when I last looked... I need to look again. Although I am unsure how to read what the program tells me (it might help if I actually got the program and tried to wing it.. it might be easier than I expect).

    I did find the speedfan program, but didnt install it. I was waiting to get a 3dmark program.

    What boggles me is that this just started up about a month ago during a night of Final Fantasy XI (which was installed in Jan2004) when the game just closes and throws me back to the desktop.... at that time I didnt know that my cpu/case temp was so high.. didnt even think about it. It did the "throwing back to desktop" thing during FFXI several more times before I moved on to PSO:BB (installed 5-15-05) and then sometimes the PC shuts off, and other times playing PSO:BB it doesnt shut off. I didnt start monitoring the temp til two days ago.... that is when I saw the high temps.

    In your opinion, would/could a virus be causing the problem?
    I added another rear case fan to the case today and the cpu temp hasnt went over 49C, and the case temp is hovering around 48C. I still havent installed the new heatsink/fan for the CPU, or the compound.
     
  9. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    I was abit harsh,Sorry! :eek:
    The point of drivers is to make the hardware compatible with the latest software/games,the first page of every game readme is get the latest drivers for your video card,to make the latest video card drivers function at their best,the latest chipset drivers,mainly agp driver is needed,to give all these things the best chance operating smoothly the latest updates from windows are needed,including service packs.If all these things are installed and the problem is recurring you can then assume its probably not drivers,get the games you are playing patched up,check the games websites for these problems check their forums for people who might be having the same problem as you.
    Heres 3d mark

    http://majorgeeks.com/download1712.html

    Heres the video card driver cleaner

    http://majorgeeks.com/download3214.html

    You must follow the instructions in the readme to the letter or it wont work,it will remove any old video card drivers so there are no driver conflicts.3dmark2003 is a large file,its good for stressing your whole computer,3dmar2001 can also be used but isnt as stressfull if you dont want to download a large file,so set speed fan up to monitor all your temps in the charts option,then start up 3dmark,after it has finished check all the peak temps on the graph see how high they got,usually 60 is abit to high but most comps run quite stable at that temp,up in the 70's and it will probably become unstable. ;)
     
  10. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    sry m8 just read you are on dial up,so i think we will have to go with 3dmark2000

    http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=181

    I'v just double checked your temps,if they are right then it might be a good idea to install your new heatsink,if it has some kind of grey goo on the bottom,thats heatpaste,or it might have a heatpad,usually covered with tape or a plastic cover,dont touch it and clean off your cpu with isopropanol alchohol,you dont want any greece or fingerprints on it,you also want to remove any residue of what was previously on your cpu,dont clean the paste off the new heatsink.LOL

    Yes this can be cause by spyware/viruses especially since you are playing online games,they could be stealing your bandwidth.You havn't updated your windows security for 6 months so theres a 90% chance you have some kind of infection,read the stickies in the spyware forum.

    Any probs just holla! :D
     
  11. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    Heh, you werent too harsh :D

    I was able to download the 3dMark03v360 overnight and I installed speedfan.

    I ran speedfan while I was running 3dmark and my score was 1530 (first try) and then 1580. Afterwards I looked at speedfan and looked at the temp graph. The highest temp range was hovering around 58-60C for both bars... I guess one is CPU and the other is ....not really sure? (the #2 and #3 game tests on 3dmark looked like rubbish to me... the FPS was horrible... are those two tests really high-end tests?)

    I am going try to and update my video card driver tonight, and probably install the new cpu heatsink/fan tomorrow morning.

    I will check out the PSO:BB website for forums regarding similiar problems with PCs shutting off, but it may be a new problem since it is an open beta .... even though it is only really testing out the U.S. servers but who knows.
     
  12. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    The thing about speedfan is it measures temp sensors,manufactures plug the sensors into different peices of hardware depending on the design,so its hard to Id them from comp to comp.If you run this.

    http://majorgeeks.com/download867.html

    And look at the temps in speedfan while its running,if the two high ones go up and stay the about the same one is the internal cpu sensor and one will be the mobo cpu diode sensor"both the same really",If only one goes up that is cpu temp.These 2 temps are usually remote and local.

    Temp 1 is the system temp,If you go into your video card properties and there is no temperature option there your card wont have one.

    60 isnt really that high my xp1900 ran that hot just fine,I'm leaning towards your psu being too weak.
     
  13. pentupanger

    pentupanger Private E-2

    Ugh... do I feel like an idiot... (the answer is yes, btw)

    OK, went to the PSO:BB forum and finally saw something there that resembles my problem, except the people who it was happening to was mainly getting errors and not PC shutdowns...

    So I read on... someone mentioned that their monitor would shut off randomly (like going into sleep mode) while playing the game and then several seconds later kick back on... which got me to thinking... "does my monitor shut off and I just think the PC is shutting off?"

    So I went to play PSO:BB and within 2 hours the screen goes blank and I notice the monitor powerlight goes amber like it entered sleepmode... just like it did when I was thinking the PC was shutting off. I put my hand on the PC case and guess what... it was still on. So I reached over and turned the volume up, which I keep down due to the fact that I am in the TV room and my wife throws a fit if I have it loud, and the game is still playing... so I wait a few and the monitor kicks back on back to the game... then about 3-5min later the game kicks me out and exits back to main menu of the game.

    So... this is all because of PSO:BB (which, like I said before, IS A BETA)... mostly.

    But the reason why Final Fantasy XI closes on me is something altogether... maybe Square (product company) updated some video or something that requires newer drivers than what I had... even though it played fine up to me quitting last November. But I did update my video card drivers and I have yet to play FFXI again since I have been playing PSOs, so I'll check that out later.

    After installing the new heatsink/fan it only reduced my overall cpu temp by 2-3C, so at least I have an extra heatsink/fan and thermal compound now.

    I would like to thank you for all of your help, Rikky. I really appreciate it.
     
  14. Rikky

    Rikky Wile E. Coyote - One of a kind

    We dont ask how just how many.Its great you got it fixed.You still pretty much logically got to the bottom of the problem,its just a shame you didn't check the game forum sooner. :DYour temps will go down as the heatpaste settles in about 5 degrees.

    BTW welcome to MG!
     

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