Grassroots Effort To Change US High Oil Prices

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by BoredOutOfMyMind, May 31, 2008.

  1. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

  2. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

    "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not"
    - The Lorax, Dr. Seuss
     
  3. LauraR

    LauraR MajorGeeks Super-Duper Administrator Staff Member

    Drilling here is not the answer.

    The answer is big business looking for alternatives. The incentive to do that is going to keep going up with the price of gas.
     
  4. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    Interesting, how much is gas?

    It's over $10 US per gallon in Europe.
     
  5. Paxton007

    Paxton007 MajorGeek

    Drilling here absolutely is the answer, but with no immediate showing as such. We could take a chunk out of what we use, and work toward independence, but that would take time. You're not going to see gas drop a dollar because of one or two refineries over night.

    The one thing I don't think is fair really is that you see these gas trucks come in, dump a load that starts at 3:75 USD a gallon, and gas goes up.. They already have the stuff in the ground paid for, so there's no more demand for it, but they can raise the price of it exponentially and make the extra money. I don't think they should raise the price at the pump without a gas truck in the parking lot.. I don't know enough about that though, to make a real argument.

    I personally prefer the grassroots efforts of this .org

    [​IMG]

    http://www.grassfire.org/
     
  6. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

    You don't under economics much do you?

    The price at the the pump in the US is determined at what the next load is expected to cost. The profit margin on a $4 a gallon US of gas is a whoppping 14 cents. Hence when prices drop drastically, the store cannot afford to lower prices for risk of LOSING money.

    LauraR if we don't allow big business the incentives they are NEVER going to look for ways and the consumers are at the point of boiling over the $$ being spent.

    Brazil has reserves larger than Saudi Arabia, and we export more oil from Canada than any other country. Yet, it is illegal to even SEEK new oil reserves in the US and most of the Alaska crude was sold to Japan and Indochina when it was developed.
     
  7. Paxton007

    Paxton007 MajorGeek

    I know enough about economics to understand that you did little or nothing to argue against the fact that drilling here would lower the cost of gas, not only here, but globally. As I said, it wouldn't be over night..

    If you're trying to convey the idea that gas prices rise at the pump, to help pay for the next shipment, that makes perfect sense to me. I never gave it any thought.. As I said...

     
  8. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

    Paxton007,

    My apologies for being over caustic.

    I find it a problem we cannot drill here, but a neighboring country can tap the same reserves and keep us hostage to trade deficits. We then accuse the US companies drilling in the foreign country as being evil. This is a flawed policy and both parties in the next race are equally to blame. Thousands of companies left California a few years ago due to the tax structure. Seems we could use some jobs in exploration and refining with the current ecomomics- even it it takes 6-8 yrs we are still going to be reeling from the prices.
     
  9. bigbazza

    bigbazza R.I.P. 14/12/2011 - Good Onya Geek

    Wait until you are paying around AUD$6,81 for an Imperial gallon. Petrol (Gas) in the USA is really cheap by comparison.
    @Halo@ or UK reader. What are you paying for Fuel in the UK. I know it around twice as expensive as USA pricing? Or is that OZ pricing? Bazza
     
  10. studiot

    studiot MajorGeek

    Bazza see post #4
     
  11. bigbazza

    bigbazza R.I.P. 14/12/2011 - Good Onya Geek

    Thanks studiot. I hadn't read back that far. :eek: Bazza

    ===

     
  12. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    I am in. Drill here, drill now! I want cheap gas!

    E :-D
     
  13. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    You don't get it.;) If the US drills or not will not make much of a difference either way on gas prices. American produced oil will be sold at world prices no matter what, unless the US changes the game which I don't foresee happening anytime soon unless ya'll start calling each other 'comrade'.LOL Hey, it's supply vs. demand as always and with China and India going gangbusters, the demand is not going to go down, only up.

    Here's a good analysis of the current situation. There will be change in the American/world psyche that folk just can't drive around in their mini-apartments nor do what they want except for the rich, who could care #$^$^ &*) less, at least most of them. Hey, how about an air powered car, hmm, $2 US/125 miles. Ya know the US has brought many inovations to the world, why are they lagging in new terchnology? Is someones palms being greased? I just don't get it and this includes my own country too. Things will change, mark my words. They have to.
     
  14. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    Same here Drill the hell out of this dang country.
     
  15. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    Hehe, and leave nothing for the next generations to work with? rolleyes
     
  16. Adrynalyne

    Adrynalyne Guest

    Well, the only way to force change is to use it all up....right?

    ;)
     
  17. musksnipe

    musksnipe Guest

    Has anyone seen what happens to the area around an oilfield or a refinary. It completely destroys the area and the water table.
    I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere near an olfield or refinery.
    Alternatives are the only way to go, not more destruction to the enviroment.


    PS I hate Green Peace and am not some treehugging yuppie, but it is time to come out of the middle ages, when it comes to oil and total dependence on it.
     
  18. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    I am all for alternative fuels and technology. But saying we should not expand our drilling and refinery technology is foolish.

    Supply and demand are very important. If we drill for oil here, and refine it, we increase supply, decrease cost, and we are making the finished product here, so we employ more people. Perhaps Exxon or whoever should look for oil in China, drill there and cash in on the extra oil.

    Another problem with fuel in the US is all the different blends that the EPA or whatever GreenNut group got passed. I am still half asleep, but if I am not mistaken, we have 18 or so different blends of gas to be used in different areas of the US. So a shortage in blend #2 can raise prices in one area because #4, which might be abundent, is for a different market. (link seems a bit dated, but how often do you see a law go away...) http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/wm895.cfm

    My point is there are a lot of variables that effect the price of gas. Some mullah in the Middle East can threaten to blow up another country and oil goes up! But supply and demand are 2 main variables. If we can increase our supply, and ideally decrease demand, then the price will fall.

    Just my opinion, not meant to offend anyone. :cool

    And nothing against you either Augie, I like you even though you are Canadian. :-D

    E
     
  19. BoredOutOfMyMind

    BoredOutOfMyMind Picabo, ICU

    California refineries blend THIRTY-EIGHT different varieties. The gas exported to Arizona is different than in California.

    The weakened dollar and an election year saw stockholders put the investment in oil futures. Only instead of selling them, they are being rolled for higher and higher prices. This has caused the Saudi's to question WHY it is so high as the supply line is still functioning unlike the 1970's.

    Anybody old enough to remember gas lines and even-odd days of buying fuel?

    (I like augiedoggie too most of the time :cool:)
     
  20. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    I still think if Cal would not of dropped the ball when they were pushing for EV's in the 90's things would not be like they are now. I still would be driving my gas burner tho nothing like the smell and sound of the Engine reving at 8000RPM's. Oh the Cool Blue racing fuel being burned in a 350 Small Block 4-bolt main is one of the best smells i can think of.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2008
  21. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    Oh that reminds me y'all know the cost of racing fuel has not changed its the same price as it was this time last year ($7.50 a gallon) while the cost of reg gas has gone up.:confused Now can someone tell me why that is?:confused
     
  22. ItsWendy

    ItsWendy MajorGeek

    Maybe it's not Gas?
     
  23. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    One word: Speculators
     
  24. N5638J

    N5638J Guest

    Oh its gas its just a higher octane.

    Oh of course Speculators.
     
  25. ItsWendy

    ItsWendy MajorGeek

    Personally I vote other sources besides oil. We have to force a change from gasoline, but big businesses can't see beyond 2 years, and our goverment is as bad. We've had this same discussion here before, but people are aware of it again.

    Genetic engineering is probably going to be a large part of it, something to convert biofuel into something higher grade. I don't have the source, but I was reading about and effort to use the woody part of plants with an experimental bacteria.
     
  26. Fred_G

    Fred_G Heat packin' geek

    Like this? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

    I think I saw it on MG's main site last week. :cool

    E
     
  27. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    Correct me where wrong.

    My understanding is there is no shortage of oil. I have heard execs and people from Saudia Arabia say they do not see the end of oil yet, in other words, they dont see where they will run out.

    Hybrids, ethanol and all that crap has downsides. Ethanol can't work, everyone knows that cant grow enough corn. Batteries are cool, but where will we dispose of them, oh and at last check Toyota ran out of batteries for the Prius.

    I hear about Europe, but I also am made to understand that in Europe cars are considered a luxury and public transportation is bigger then in the USA where even people who are poor often own a car. Also I understand half of your $10 fuel is taxes. If our cars go to a large majority of hybrids, our gas will rise accordingly. People forget, use less gas, gas goes up. Basic supply and demand. All these hybrids are promising high gas prices. Damn shame over 45% of auto sales were SUVs from people who could not afford a ONE DOLLAR spike in gas.

    All we can do is consume less. People talk, but do nothing. Most people are hypocrites. Most people alive don't think this will affect them. Therin lies the real problem. Oh, stop having kids too. Theres no room on this planet for your spawn. And plant a tree instead.
     
  28. Jamiko

    Jamiko Sergeant

    MA's right. The only real answer is to change our habbits. Mass transportation. Bicycles and scooters. Live closer to work. Telecommute. Gas prices are still cheap in the US, just wait until our prices approach the costs in many other countries.

    And what is with car companies bragging about their fuel efficient cars getting 28 MPG? That is supposed to be fuel efficient? It was not that long ago (the last time the American people cared about gas mileage) that cars were getting 30 and 40 MPG. We can still do better, it's all about what sells. When gas is cheap, the makers focus on performance and horsepower. Now they are focused on MPG again. And since I'm on a little rant, why are all the hybrid and electric cars so ugly? :-D
     
  29. Major Attitude

    Major Attitude Co-Owner MajorGeeks.Com Staff Member

    I hate to sound patronizing, but what Jamiko said I also would have liked to.
     
  30. LauraR

    LauraR MajorGeeks Super-Duper Administrator Staff Member

  31. Paxton007

    Paxton007 MajorGeek

    I see things like this a lot, and wonder if demand is really all that much higher.. There's something going on now with a study into actual supply and demand.. I don't offer any solutions, but wonder what this is time in history is going to look like, when you're looking back in 20 years.
     

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