Motherboard Swap - Will The Original OS Work?

Well friends at last we meet again... What brings me here? I struck gold so to speak, as luck would have it someone that lives 10 minutes away from me happened to have the very same vintage motherboard I was in need of! I grabbed it just last night for $50. Some of you might recall that I did troubleshooting on my old build for about a week or two with no success (five months back when I started a thread here). In the end I believe a greater number of us determined that the bios chip had gone bad since the board was rebooting itself and giving a "Corrupted Bios" beep code. This all happened after a bad winter storm we had this year that caused a lot of power loss/spikes in my neighborhood. Which is when I suspect it corrupted the bios even though the computer was off (though still plugged into the wall). I tried to flash the bios so many times, exactly as the manual on HP's site said and it would never actually start the flash. Floppy method as per the manual didn't work, neither did a customized bootable cd version I made. Tried out a brand new CMOS battery in place of the one that came with the troublesome motherboard originally. No success thereafter as well... The bios corruption had my computer working, yet hdd use was at super slow speeds, and reboots occurred with the beep code.

By then I also found a company that could program a brand new bios chip with the latest bios on it for $20 on eBay. But a lot of you said the bios chip on my trusty old "HP VECTRA VL400 DT" motherboard could not be switched. Because it's originally soldered directly under (not behind), on the board by machine at the factory. & it just wouldn't be plausible to do so by hand. I almost gave up... Was thinking of searching for a tech with mechanical tools that could do the swap. Would have been hard to find someone, and they probably would've charged too much. I also thought of desoldering the capacitors and putting in new ones to see if that might help. But changing the capacitors would be time consuming, and more than likely not be the solution. Even though I read somewhere that bad capacitors can cause bios corruption, though I don't know if replacement remedies this since technically the bios would have already been damaged.

So turns out my classic rig is still on the operating table. & I got lucky enough to find someone that had the same computer... Maybe I should rephrase that. It's in the same computer model series line, but a different product number on the sticker outside the case (I'll explain in a second). Take a look below, I got the computer for cheap from my girlfriend's work back in 2005/06. & only used the motherboard to rebuild it in a new case, with all new parts, modified to the extreme, and custom pieces. It's where I learned everything about computers. & I'd like to bring her back to life. So I can show my kids one day the incredibly old software we used to run, games, etc. It's no show if it doesn't turn on... Otherwise I have another new pc, and laptop right now. But I can't let *her go, it's worth what a first car would be to some of you. The hours of building, days, months, years of upgrades, customization, the frustration, ahhh the frustration! I've got hundreds of dollars worth of parts in her (for video and audio editing software that no longer exists), and a perfectly running classic XP system otherwise. I'm an audio engineer so my computer is also connected to other musical hardware that needs my old specific computer to work. As you can see above she's an oldie but a beauty.



Anyways back to the point. HP originally released this computer back in 2001/02 in three case choices (MT, DT, & SFF - Minitower, Desktop, & Small Form Factor respectively). According to the sources I've dug up over the years (including experts on old HP website forums). All of the versions sold in the Vectra VL400 line carry the same motherboard. The first "HP Vectra VL400 MT" model stands up like a regular tower, the second "HP Vectra VL400 DT" model sits like a vcr (this is the one I originally bought), and the third "HP Vectra VL400 SFF" model also sits like a vcr but has a much smaller case. With that said looking at photos, and digging through manuals I can tell that the motherboards are the same. They support the same components, bios updates, and in photos look exactly alike. Even though all three of their manuals state at least 20 product numbers for each of the three releases. I believe that has to do with the outer case choice, and inner components one might want to buy it with (ie: a specific amount of ram, specific cpu speed, hard drive size, personal choice of operating system, etc). Because all manuals only state the product number in a chart pertaining to different choices of "add ons" as I just mentioned.

Visually the spare computer I just bought as a donor (HP Vectra VL400 MT), has a motherboard that looks identical to mine in person. Sure, it was hard to do crosschecks with manuals online that have smaller photos. But I've taken a few good looks at the two I have in person with my naked eye. & they look to be exactly the same except for a few things:

- The bios chip is a different brand

- The audio jacks are all metallic on the donor board, as opposed to hardened black plastic on my original board

- & last but not least the donor board was made in Indonesia, and my original board was made in Mexico

I don't think the bios chip brand matters, it's just a brand. Similar to using memory sticks of the same specifications though different brand. The manuals for all of the three models released under the HP Vectra VL400 line state that they all have the same audio chip. & I assume the color difference on the audio jacks plating probably has to do with what country the board was manufactured (this is where MajorGeeks user Joffa could give some insight, if he's seeing this). Otherwise in person the network controller on the board is the same brand, and stamped the alike. It has the same amount of pci slots, agp, positioning of cpu socket, everything, everything, even the capacitors. Albeit for one capacitor that is smaller on the donor board by the memory slot. While my original board uses a taller one. I haven't cross checked the capacitors for energy differences in rating. I'm sure they're the same, and if not I'm sure that doesn't matter much since only one looks smaller in size.

The B-ROM sticker lists the same numbers on the board. Heck even the part number that is *directly imprinted onto the motherboard itself matches the same number as my original board! The last thing I forgot to mention is the donor board uses an older bios version than mine, but I'll update that (and it doesn't matter anyways).

My question to you guys is do you think if I do a motherboard swap... Would my pre-existing operating system load without a glitch?

Also should I replace every capacitor on the donor board before I do the swap(even though it's working), just because they're old and would help the motherboard last longer that way?

I'm trying to not have to install absolutely anything. Which is why I tried to look for the same board. If I could post pictures at some point you would see that it visually looks the same. Except for the things I mentioned. Now I can't see vias, and I can't cross check every copper line trace. But believe me they look the same. Let me know what you think and what I could potentially get ready for on first boot up. I'm not doing it until I get skilled answers. My original customized see through case takes hours to take apart. I would assume that Windows Xp would correct any slight difference I may not know about. When I got my original board I never had to install any motherboard drivers, or any drivers at all for that matter. The XP disc did it all for me, and many years later I never had an issue until the pc went dull recently of course. So you can do away with the "You'll need drivers" answers. I don't think I would need them if it really is the same board. I'm just worried that being that it's from a different country, maybe something on it small I have missed may not match. Maybe something on the board, or in it...

P.s.
Laugh it up, I'm giving a home to computers and parts that would have otherwise been dumped in a landfill.

 

As long as that one capacitor on the new mobo has the same capacitance and voltage rating as the one on the mobo you're replacing, the size won't matter. If all the connections on both boards match (even though the audio jacks are metallic on the new mobo) you should be good to go since you've already determined that the new mobo works. Your OS and drivers should act as if the old mobo "never left".

I've got to hand it to you. That transparent case and the way the PC is set up is awesome! :cool

 

Just gave "new life" to and old HP laptop that ran XP using Ubuntu.

Sometimes you just have to let go, like the two Compaqs which were not salvageable, but not everything needs to be scrapped. mdonah is spot on about the board/OS, and sounds like you got a better board out of the deal.

Just took in another old desktop to refurbish for someone who honestly needs it.

Is it DRAM, or RIMM modules?

AND, not to nitpick, a clean PC is a happy PC. Dust bunnies are one thing. Dust kangaroos are another...

:-D

 

& what if that one capacitor ends up being a different (I doubt it) voltage rating?

Thanks for the compliments on the case, it looks far better lit up with the blue led fans all over it. Even the video card has a nice blue/red mini led fan too.

Believe it or not it supports the good ole SDRAM modules. As for the dust, that's the longest I've ever gone without cleaning the inner sides (about 6 months). I clean the pc all the time it's just the front parts are hard to get to since it's in an acrylic case. I can vacum the motherboard easily when it's in the case. But the front is difficult to reach. It's clean as a whistle right now believe me.


UPDATE:
I successfully installed the latest bios version (IP.01.08) on the donor board without a glitch. Hopefully I can get around to swapping boards sometime this week. What do you guys still think about me wanting to change all the capacitors on the donor board to avoid capacitor issues in the future? Not that the caps were the problem on my original board. But as I said it helps the motherboard last longer from what I heard.

 

A motherboard swap won't hose your OS unless the SATA or IDE controllers are different.

 

If the capacitor on the donor board has a higher voltage rating (despite it's size) than the one on the old mobo, you're good to go. If it's lower, you run the risk of popping it so, a replacement would be in order.

 

I take it you think they may have made a manufacturing revision with that *one specific capacitor on the donor board?

I still haven't checked to see if there's a voltage difference. Taking apart my see through case is time consuming, so I can't check until I get to that point sometime this week. This is why I was asking you guys if you thought it would be a good idea for me to change all of the capacitors on the donor board (which is working flawlessly), just so it can last much longer?

 

There may have been a design revision OR the the capacitor on the Mexican board isn't available at the other manufacturing site.

As you state, the "donor" board is working perfectly so, I wouldn't muck about with it. I don't know if among your tools you have a capacitor tester. In your efforts to swap all the capacitors, you could, inadvertently, swap a bad capacitor for a good one and render your efforts useless by damaging the mobo. I'd leave it alone. Nothing lasts forever. But with a perfectly good mobo your computer will be back up and running — for however long that is.

 

I don't actually, might you know of any good ones that are basic and cheaper than a multimeter? I'll even buy one on eBay if you can point me in the right direction. Thanks again for your time and input everyone.

 

So I finally swapped the failed motherboard, for the spare one I purchased. Upon booting up for the first time it all came up well to the desktop. I browsed the computer hard drives without an issue, played a song file, video file, etc. I figured I had finally got my old rig back in working order. I had no motherboard beep codes occur like the bad motherboard I replaced. Took me 13 hours to fully disassemble the see through case and reassemble it with the new mobo. Then I decided to go to sleep, so I shut down the pc. When I shut down just after the "shutting down" message appears the screen went bizerk with static and the computer did not shut off. I had to manually shut it off by holding the power button for 5 secs... I then decided to turn it back on and have a look see. This time again the computer seemed to work fine. But when I went to shut it down the pc did the same thing right after the blue screen "shutting down" message appears. So I did a physically shutdown again, and reboot. This time I booted up to the desktop and it all just froze.

Any idea how I can correct this? I'm assuming there must be some very small differences in the motherboard. Even though it's the same part number, and as I explained in previous posts it only had a couple physical looking changes (metal instead of black audio controller - same one though, and different bios chip - really doesn't matter what brand of bios chip is used). Everything else looks exactly the same, again with one board being made in Mexico, and the other in Indonesia.

I want to get this working without having to reinstall Windows Xp!

Please help, and by that if you can give me concrete solutions. I don't want to mess about with my rig that I've had for years to "try things out." I'd definitely prefer solutions that would more than likely fix the problem.


Thank You

 

Howdy superstar.
I would use another pc to log into HP support and download the latest set of drivers for your new mobo. There should be a barcode or model number/revision number somewhere on the mobo. When you get the new drivers install them onto the faulty PC. If you can uninstall the existing drivers first it is better but sometimes this isn't possible. Remember you can boot into safe mode to remove stuff that is "in use" when you try and remove it after booting normally. When starting in safe mode only the minimum drivers required for the OS are loaded so this is a handy strategy for removing things.

Have you tested the old power supply to make sure it isn't low in volts on any of the rails? The power supply is a regular cause of weird problems in old gear and often the problem is intermittent or heat related making the fault very hard to track down. If you can borrow a spare "known good" power supply just temporarily connect it up from outside the box to see if the weird problem goes away. Make sure you completely disconnect the old power supply when you connect the replacement one for testing so you don't create any loops if there is a fault.
Good luck and I will answer your PM when I have some spare time as work is overwhelming me at the moment..... I need a holiday
Cheers

 

@JOFFA

There's actually no motherboard drivers on the support site as you can see here. Remember when I first installed Windows XP many years back, the original motherboard didn't need any separate drivers to work. Windows Xp just set it all up on it's own. I would have thought the operating system would just work after the motherboard swap. Being that it's the same motherboard model (yet made in a different world region).

I tried loading up in Safe Boot mode just to see if I could shutdown, and restart properly. It worked without a hitch... I left it on for an hour and no issues. Not like in Normal mode the screen turns into a static dot style image right after the shutdown message (and doesn't shut off the computer), or won't reboot properly. I'm assuming there is something trying to communicate with the motherboard and can't.

What am I to do now?


Thanks for your time and effort - I'm one step away,

 

OK all care and no responsibility
I am very busy with work at the moment so I only had a very quick look with not too much checking and found this site and there are 7 pages of drivers related to VL400. I think page 2 is the start of graphics drivers. Please be advised that I am not saying this is a safe site but FWIW I had no problems when downloading two of the drivers as a test so caveat emptor

The fact it runs OK in safe mode indicates to me you have either a driver issue or a broken OS issue and so running the HP system repair utility may fix the problem. Do you still have the HP hidden partition on the HDD and if so you may be able to repair the drivers and OS using one of the HP utilities. You will have to do some reading yourself as I haven't played with a Vectra since about 2004 or 2005 and can't clearly remember the procedure and I won't have any spare time to do much looking for at least another 3 or 4 weeks. (Just got roped into setting up an IT network, accounting system and EFTPOS including networked weigh scales connected to cash registers for a wholesale chicken shop plus still doing my usual job)

Sorry I just finished my coffee and now I have got to run so let us know how you get on and good luck :cool

 

I tried doing a repair, it didn't work... The same issues persisted with shutdowns and reboots not behaving properly when selected. I've got no choice but to do a fresh install of Win Xp now. That begs the question, I have two physical hard drives. Each has two partitions as follows:

HDD ONE - C: Win Xp OS Partition, E: Data Partition
HDD TWO - G: Data Partition, H: Data Partition

The data partitions contain personal files of mine, documents, etc. I'd like to reinstall Windows Xp to the OS partition on HDD ONE. Is it possible to do so without interfering with the other 3 data partitions?

Should I flush out the System Restore points on all of the drives in Safe Boot Mode (which works *unlike normal boot mode,* but I don't know if it would have access to System Restore there)?

From what I recall System Restore saves restore points on each HDD, and I don't want past save points to interfere with the new Win Xp install. Lastly are there any other things I need to clean up, or do before reinstalling Windows XP while trying to leave the remaining HDD data partitions untouched?

Thanks

 

You should be able to select that C partition to install XP to without any problems.

You should turn off monitoring of the E, G and H partitions because the fresh install of XP won't be able to use the System Restore points. To turn off monitoring on the E, G and H drives, right click My Computer and select Properties then click on the System Restore tab. The partitions should show as drives. Click on each one individually and click on the Settings button and check turn off System Restore on this drive and confirm the action.

If, after you've re-installed XP, you want these drives monitored again, you can reverse the process by unchecking turn off System restore on this drive although with the fresh install, monitoring should be turned back on and NEW Restore Points should be generated.

I tend to turn off System Restore on all drives except the System Drive because of the amount of space those Restore Points occupy on the hard drives. I'd rather use the space for storage of files and since that's all that's on those drives, if a data file becomes corrupted or lost, I'm able to simply replace it.

I would back up any data you have on those data partitions before re-installing XP in case of problems so you can restore the files.

 

@MDonah

Great ideas, I found your post to be very informative. I'd like to flush out the current restore points on all partitions before I do a clean install of XP. Do you know if you can do that in Safe Mode?

Remember my pc isn't shutting down/rebooting correctly. & from what I know you're supposed to reboot after turning System Restore selections *off. I want to be sure they're gone, right now Safe Mode works correctly to shut down/reboot. I'm sure the Admin profile would be sufficient.

Got any tips I can use after I do the Fresh Install of XP? As you know I'd like to reinstall all of the same software (which I do have on disc). But I'd like to restore all of the same settings. At best I figured I can take screenshots before the Fresh Install of XP. Though I'm wondering if there are any better/faster solutions. I've got a heap of software and it's going to take a long time the way it looks now, to get it back the way it was.

Thanks

 

Unfortunately, I never tried to switch System Restore on or off while in Safe Mode so, I don't know if it will work.

When I turn monitoring off, the System Volume Information folders get cleared immediately and the extra space I pick up shows in the Properties for the drives. I have never rebooted immediately afterward. I've never changed the amount of space to use for System Restore on the System Drive (C) but, if I had, I would need to reboot just like I do when I change the Page File allocations.

If your apps were installed on the System drive, unfortunately, the settings will be lost unless you use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard.

This is from the Help and Support Center in XP:

Using the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard

The Files and Settings Transfer Wizard helps you move your data files and personal settings from your old computer to your new one, without having to go through much of the same configuration you did with your old computer. For example, you can take your personal display properties, folder and taskbar options, and Internet browser and e-mail settings from your old computer and place them on the new one. The wizard will also move specific files or entire folders, such as My Documents, My Pictures, and Favorites. Passwords are not moved with program settings when you use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard. This is a feature of the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard that helps to keep your passwords confidential.
We recommend that you install a virus detection program on the new computer before transferring files over from the old computer. This can help protect your new computer from viruses that may be contained in the files transferred over from your old computer.
Open the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard.
Notes

• To open the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, click Start, point to All Programs, point to Accessories, point to System Tools, and then click Files and Settings Transfer Wizard.

Now, I don't know if this will work for ALL of your apps, but it should shorten the process of initial setup.

Do you have all of your device drivers (video, audio, etc.)?