Going Mad at /3GB switch to XP-Win7 Dual-Boot!

Hello

Ok for 2 Days now I'm trying to add /3GB /Userva Boot-options back to my XP. I tried everything possible I can think off and just can't get it.
Please help me.

Using EasyBCD to add and manage my system works just fine.
Using (Command) <bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVa 3072> works fine for Win7, for XP it says parameter incorrect.

Visual BCD Editor works neither, because it's only having like 3 values for XP, where Win 7 has about 12. Adding a 'Bootloader->Userva' entry does not work because simply nothing gets added. The numbers it's showing are red, while they should be green if adding a valid entry.

I can't use boot.ini because Windows 7 bootloader simply ignores those, because it knows better.

Looking at the bcdedit output tells me something interesting:

Code:

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {51bc8605-fc18-11e4-bd21-d9358b472391}
device                  partition=I:
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description             Windows 7
locale                  en-US
inherit                 {bootloadersettings}
osdevice                partition=I:
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {51bc8604-fc18-11e4-bd21-d9358b472391}
nx                      OptIn
increaseuserva          2900

Real-mode Boot Sector
---------------------
identifier              {51bc860a-fc18-11e4-bd21-d9358b472391}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \NST\easyldr1
description             Microsoft Windows XP C

Real-mode Boot Sector
---------------------
identifier              {default}
device                  partition=C:
path                    \NST\easyldr2
description             Microsoft Windows XP WDD800 Clone

The XP boot is marked as Real-mode Boot Sector
That tells me it's using a different boot mechanism than Windows 7 is using, but it's not the legacy XP bootloader neither, because boot.ini is ignored. Also there is not a single value in there besides the location and name.

This is probably the reason I can't add the UserVa, because it does not exist in the first place. But it should be added using /set IncreaseUserVa 3072, it's not getting added and simply tells me parameter incorrect.

It's just driving me mad because that constipated Win7 bootloader simply omits the possibilty to add Boot-Options!
I can't make a dual-boot legacy XP (boot.ini)/Windows 7 boot-loader either, because the legacy bootloader doesn't load Windows 7.

How the frigg can't I add the UserVa to my XP boot?

 

You are making life difficult for yourself. There are three main ways of creating an XP/Win 7 dual boot -

A) If XP is already installed then install Win 7 to a separate partition on the same disk. This is by far the most common method and a correctly configured dual boot will be created automatically. You can't use this method if Win 7 was installed first.

B) Install each OS to a different hard disk and use the BIOS to choose which to boot.

C) Hide the partition housing one OS and install the other to another partition. Then use a third party boot manager such as Grub4DOS to configure the MBR and the boot process. With this method it doesn't matter which was installed first.

Sorry, can't help with configuring Userva. I thought it was only applicable to computers running Windows Server 2003.

 

I have Windows 7 on the primary partition and Win XP on the second partition.
Isn't it somehow possible to leave the Win 7 Bootloader as is, but then simply add the own XP Bootloader on the second partition?
This way I could simply select the Win 7 or Win XP at boot. Each using it's own (normal) bootloader?

It's just terrible of Windows 7 because it injected it's bootloader like a virus. You can actually install it but when you remove it, the bootloader will still remain and your system left unbootable, thats terrible and practically the behavior of a virus..

BTW: The boot setup is fine! I just mighty struggle to find ANY way adding Userva (former 3GB switch) for my XP. I need that extra ram back and it's just crazy not able doing it. Because it's just literally 10 letters of information that need to be added to the boot routine.
There are even more boot-options to add to a boot.ini. I just can't believe that Win 7 prevents you from adding any boot-commands, simply because it ommits boot.ini. So the pc-elite group at Redmont simply forgot that possibilty? I know there are people on this planet that are able to add boot-options to their os, even in a Win7/XP boot environment.

 

I have Windows 7 on the primary partition and Win XP on the second partition.
Isn't it somehow possible to leave the Win 7 Bootloader as is, but then simply add the own XP Bootloader on the second partition?
This way I could simply select the Win 7 or Win XP at boot. Each using it's own (normal) bootloader?

The OS' boot up just fine. The problem is being unable adding boot-options at all. Simply because the boot.ini is ommited - there is no way to add those literal 10 letters of information to the XP boot.
I just can't believe being unable to add boot-options like in XP, simply because the elite-pc-people at Redmont "forgot" to add those at all if in a Windows 7 boot-environment. There MUST be some people on this planet that have/were able to add boot-options to their XP in a dualboot situation.

 

Are you saying both XP and Win 7 boot OK? If so I'm not at all sure what your problem is. Can you explain what problems you have due to not being able to add the XP boot options?

XP and Win 7 use fundamentally different methods of booting but both need to be located on disk track 0, not within their respective partitions so it has to be one or the other. As I said, if XP is installed first it's simple, but not so if Win 7 is installed first.

What you could try is installing EasyBCD in one or the other. It may find both OSs and create your dual boot for you.

 

I boot to 3 versions of Windows installed on separate drives — XP Pro (installed on a modular/media bay drive), Vista Ultimate (on my "C" drive) and Win 8.1 Pro (installed on an external, USB connected drive). I use EasyBCD installed on the Vista drive AND the 8.1 drive to choose which one to boot to. Doing it this way didn't do anything to boot.ini in XP (see att'd — unzip the XP folder). Perhaps using EasyBCD, you may be able to add your Userva.

 

Xp and Win 7 boot up fine.
The problem is being unable to add boot-options to XP (those usually reside in boot.ini).
Normaly you would use EasyBCD to add Win XP back to your bootloader, thats what I did. The difference of Win 7 and XP in this system is, XP shows itself as 'Real-Mode Boot Sector' while Win 7 shows itself as 'Windows Boot Loader'.
The problem is that I can't add the /set userva to the Windows XP boot. It works for Win 7 though.

It looks like I'm gonna buy myself another disk and then leave Win 7 as it is, while moving my Windows XP to the new disk.
So I can have the legacy bootloader (ntldr) and Win 7 can keep it's stubborn boot-loader that permits boot-options for XP.

 

If you have XP already, and add 7 it's normally listed as "Earlier version of Windows" when you boot.

 

Yeah I totally messed up. When I installed Win7 there was an 'earlier windows version' available but it didn't boot, because I cloned my old OS to the new disk. I then cloned it again and did the EasyBCD thing and it worked.

But do you know if the Bootloader is using Earlier Windows Version, does it actually boot the old way? As in legacy XP style, with the oldschool loader therefore it would also load boot.ini???

If so, could you please explain me how to add that entry back to the boot and not the EasyBCD style XP boot?

 

When you have a dual-boot setup with Windows XP & 7, the boot.ini file is moved to the Windows 7 partition. Likewise, you'll also find the ntldr and w7ldr files on that partition.

 

When you turn on the computer, what two choices are listed?

 

Somehow my reply wasn't added.

"Earlier version of Windows" was showing before I changed the boot myself. I installed Win 7, then added XP back using Easy BCD (boot entry added whats marked as "real-mode boot sector", see first post boot-log).

"Legacy Windows" sounds somehow different to me. As if it's in real legacy meaning loading XP the old-way including boot.ini - is that correct?

You think there would be any way to restore that legacy boot-loader myself?

There is my original boot.ini and ntldr residing on the disk, but on the second partition where XP is.

 

You did not have to use Easy BCD to edit "Earlier version of Windows" to XP.

Not sure what to tell you to do because I have never used Easy BCD.

My screen shows XP
Windows 7
I set 7 as the default and changed the boot time from 20 seconds to 5 seconds.

Maybe someone else knows how to back track so
Earlier Version of Windows and Windows 7 again show.

 

What exactly do you mean? If you had Windows XP installed, and then installed Windows 7 on a second partition, you didn't have to do anything extra.

This is the crux of the problem. boot.ini and ntldr must be on the Windows 7 partition. If it was my PC, I would take a chance and move those two files from the WinXP partition to the Win7 partition.

You can try to update the MBR using EasyBCD. Follow the instructions word for word.

http://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/basics/updating-mbr-and-bootsector/

 

XP seems another age now, a bit like George W Bush, but going through my old notes I see I used to run XP and Vista in a dual boot which was not configured the standard Microsoft way of XP first, Vista or Win 7 second. (Vista and Win 7 use the same boot configuration).

Installing Grub4DOS to the MBR and isolating the two OSs would completely resolve your problem but that may be a step too far, so I would like you to try the following -

First image your present setup in case of problems. If you are not prepared to do that then do not go any further.

Make sure that both ntldr and boot.ini are still located in your XP partition.

Use the Partition Wizard Bootable CD to set the XP partition Active and to hide the Win 7 partition.

Boot to XP, open a command prompt as administrator and type bootsect.exe /nt52 C: <Enter>

Reboot and see whether you can now add the XP boot options you say you need.

 

But updating the MBR would simply kill my Windows 7 boot right?
I would then be left with the plain old XP-boot.
It would not be dual-boot anymore, basically returning me to where I was at the beginning.


Is a "true" dual-boot even possible?
Where I get a menu to choose from the old-school classic XP bootloader (doing it's thing) and the modern Windows 7 Bootloader (doing it's thing).

Currently I'm simply booting XP trough the Windows 7 bootloader.
That's why there are no options because it does not care. It's simply booting up XP as if it was some old guy that's ready to die (telling you to support you but in reality does not care).

 

Eldon says

Earthling says

So does he need both on both partitions? I'm confused and I suspect rgerber will be too.

 

No.
I run Windows XP Professional and Windows 7 Ultimate on a partitioned hard disc. The boot.ini and ntldr files are on the Windows 7 partition. In fact, all the files are on the Windows 7 partition.

 

Eldon is referring to a standard MS dual boot configuration. I'm addressing an alternative boot configuration which I have used for years and gets around the total nonsense of the MS approach of having the boot files for both XP and 7 on the 7 partition.

 

Correct, but I haven't asked you to do so. The command I gave you doesn't touch the MBR but does alter that XP partition boot sector. What I am suggesting is an interim step to see whether we can get your XP boot options up. If successful I'll take you on to the final step of restoring your dual boot, only this time it will work properly

 

I just checked my system (Vista ad XP). Boot.ini and Ntldr are on BOTH drives. I suspect that if I check my Win 8.1 drive, both files will be there as well.

 

@rgerber - As follow-up to the experiment I asked you to conduct in #15 I just completed a test to replicate your situation by adding XP to the second partition on a system already having Win 7 in the first partition. Predictably the MBR was overwritten and the system would then only boot to XP. I then installed Grub4DOS to the MBR and created the very simple text file to configure the dual boot and dual booting was fully restored.

The key difference between this and the MS dual boot method is that each OS boots completely independently of the other and behaves as though it is the only OS on the system. If your test was successful as regards your Userva boot options then it would be a fairly straightforward process to convert your boot configuration to this method.

Let me know if you want to take this further.

 

Well Hello there, sorry for being a bit slow answering.

I made that, it made my system unbootable. It made sense because the D partition (where XP resides) is not the active partition and never was. Since it is an logical partition there was no way making it active. That was pretty messy I reinstalled Windows 7 and XP, returned my boot entries and now I'm basically absolutely where I was before.
I'm almost glad being able using my system at last again.

But there was nothing to gain from that.
It really looks like I need a unique hard-drive (I'm gonna buy a SSD) where I'm gonna put XP and Windows 7 can have it's own drive.
It just seems near impossible to set this up securely when XP is on a secondary partition (logical D.

 

After going trough that horrible mess of making my system useable at all, if nothing at all gained from it.
I would very much like to try this method, if you darely instruct me to do that. The setup is basically as it is at the moment (C: Win 7 D: Win XP) But I'm using the Windows Boot Loader (Win7) from Easy BCD to boot up both, I'm not exactly sure if the EasyBCD (easyldr) is even the same as the original Win 7 one.

At least I have tons of backups because I just can't afford to loose anything at all. But we can rip it apart once again

btw: Any way to remove myself from the Microsoft constraints would be a win-situation

 

Software such as MiniTool Partition Wizard, AOMEI Partition Assistant (run from the CD that can be created for each) would have allowed you to convert the logical partition to a primary partition (you can have up to 4 primary partitions on a 32-bit system). You'd leave the Win 7 partition as active.

 

I asked you not to do anything without first imaging your system which clearly you did not do or there would have been no need to reinstall both OSs and you could have been operational again in less than an hour. The same warning applies to the following or be it on your head.

To install Grub4DOS to your MBR read at least the Introduction and Section 1 of this guide but remember you are installing it to your hard disk and not, as in the guide, to a flash drive. The guide was written for Vista but applies equally to Win 7.

I suggest you use the second of the two download links as that is the one I use and be sure to follow the steps exactly.

That completes installing Grub4DOS to your MBR but we still need to create a boot configuration file for which you can copy and paste the following into a text file. You must also ensure that ntldr and boot.ini are present in the XP partition.

Code:

# menu.lst for rgerber

default 0
timeout 10

title Windows 7
root (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader /bootmgr

title Windows XP
# in the following line substitute (hd0,4) if the second partition is logical
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader /ntldr

Save this file as menu.lst and put it at the root of the Win 7 partition. When you reboot you will be offered a menu with Win 7 and XP and whichever you choose will appear as C drive in Computer, the other taking the first available free drive letter.

Test this out and let me know how it goes. If it works for you there are nice refinements and additions we can play with, including booting bootable ISOs.

Good luck and take care!

 

Sorry I don't have much time. But guess what, the problem has been solved.

*cough, cough*

All Problems have been solved - you can go on and live a beautyful life!

So what happened?
It turns out the solution was right before my nose the whole time.
Booting XP in a Windows 7 dualboot setup does indeed load the boot.ini (with whatever bootoptions one declared inside there)

The only tiny problem is that the boot.ini is not called boot.ini, but ebcd.001 instead. That is a weird name!
But how the hell should I know that or even consider that when there is absolutely no mentioning on this on the whole internet, nor is it documented even mentioned in thousands of EasyBCD instructions themself.

I just remember people sometime mentioning boot.ini and using EasyBCD, Win7/XP etc.... then I looked for it again and suddenly I find this post where someone mentions this file called ebcd.001 = this file is a boot.ini file.

There you have it. I had this file in my boot-drive the whole time and I just needed to edit it as if it was a boot.ini file.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

But I might come back for trying out the Ubuntu boot-loader, not before I get a SSD drive. Thank you everyone!

 

With Windows there are always several ways to get around problems but you certainly did well to unearth that one! :-D

 

Thanks for the info on the ebcd.001 file. As it turns out on my system though both boot.ini AND ebcd.001 are on my Vista AND Win 8.1 drives.