Protest: America bodysnatching a British student

[alan12345]

The USA are not content with invading foreign countries to steal equipment alleged to be implicated in copyright infringement,
they are now extraditing a British student to serve a ten year sentence for a FALSELY alleged crime that has a maximum U.K. sentence of six months.

Wikipedia's founder Jimmy Wales has launched a petition which I consider worthy of full support.
They urgently want 100,000 signatures by Friday.
After 3 days they are up to 86,000+

http://www.change.org/petitions/ukho...sa-saverichard

Regards
Alan

[gloozit]

Yes us yanks are real jerks.
BTW did he know that what he was doing is illegal, in most countries, regardless of where they put the server?
Can't feel sorry for a criminal. Especially a geek who isn't smart enough to isolate himself from his site.
No matter how it was set up, or the claims of innocence, he knew he was playing with copyrighted materials.

[alan12345]

I have no problem with the Americans in general.
In fact you have my sympathy because you are victimized by SOPA more than I.

I am however greatly offended by the deceit and corruption by media copyright holders that inflate their losses from downloads by including copyright infringement of USA brands of clothing.
Only a politician - British as well as American,
can believe that Broadband Internet accommodates downloads of Sports Trainers

The FBI invaded New Zealand to enforce an extradition.
What will stop them invading England for the same purpose
http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/03/th...n-new-zealand/

I do not practice or support copyright infringement,
but the copyright holders already take action in British courts against alleged copyright holders,
so have no justification in snatching their British victim out of British justice.
Hence the petition has my full support.

Regards
Alan

[dyamond]

At first, I thought you were bashing the USA and I was about to get my pitchfork out and chase you outta here good but then I calmed down and read your 2nd posting and well, you're safe now.

However, I can not sign this in good conscience when he knowingly partook in something that he knew was illegal. I do think that RIAA, MPAA, etc do overstep their bounds and are ridiculously always trying to squeeze money out of the "little guy" but no matter how much I might agree (personally) with what the guy did, illegal is still illegal. As for the matter of US taking it out of Britain's hands well I guess it depends on where the server was located (I didn't see where) but if it was on US soil then technically it's a US "crime".

[Goldenskull]

Originally Posted by dyamond

but if it was on US soil then technically it's a US "crime".

Agreed If it was on us soil then it is a crime.

Most of the stuff i really don't care about i try to Ignore most of the dumb stuff now a days.

But the A lot of the US laws are quit dumb and point less.

[alan12345]

PLEASE READ MY LINK IN MY FIRST POST.
It states

O'Dwyer is not a US citizen, he's lived in the UK all his life, his site was not hosted there, and most of his users were not from the US. America is trying to prosecute a UK citizen for an alleged crime which took place on UK soil.

Also please read this violation of natural justice :-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...at-tvshack-net

Users could post links to video content – on YouTube, the now-defunct Google Video, MegaVideo or elsewhere – that contained full TV programmes or films. O'Dwyer's site would check the link worked and add it to its search engine. The site quickly became a specialised search engine for TV and film content, plus a forum for people to discuss and review the films.

American customs officials, after campaigning from industry bodies, contended that linking to such items on other sites (as search engines and others automatically do) would also be covered by such laws.

This is a contentious interpretation of the law, even in the US, where linking has in some court cases been regarded as protected speech under the first amendment.

On the morning he was arrested without warning, his mother was also dragged at 07:00 am from her home which is 142 miles away from his University.

Unknown to O'Dwyer, his mother had been having a similar day: at 7am, a team of five police officers had turned up at her home, which was half-demolished inside owing to renovation work, and searched it for his possessions. She'd then been taken to her local police station and interviewed about her son's activities.

I believe the petition is fully worthy of support.

Regards
Alan

[Sgt. Tibbs]

You do realize that signing an internet petition is in no way going to affect whether or not he is extradited, right?

[alan12345]

Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia founder, considered it worth launching this petition
132,229 (and rising) have considred this worth supporting.

Responses to my post have included false accusations that Richard is a criminal,
and that his server was on American soil.

The petition I linked to included several links such as
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...at-tvshack-net

Apparently the U.S. Prosecutor demanded incarceration until extradition to the USA,
NOT because he was guilty,
NOT because he was even charged with an offence,
BUT for the convenience of USA Internet Censors to determine from evidence on British soil whether Richard even has a case to answer.

I thought extradition was intended for terrorists and murderers and the like,
not as a deterrent against owners of external to USA Servers and sites that carry non-malicious links.

My above interpretation is supported by this extract from the link to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ju...at-tvshack-net

As O'Dwyer's case wasn't to be heard that day, his hearing was simply for bail, which he says the US prosecutor opposed.
Bail was agreed with him suggesting terms to the non-technical solicitors and judge.
But as O'Dwyer didn't have his passport or the £3,000 bail bond by 5pm, he spent the evening in Wandsworth prison.

"Being in prison for setting up a website was something myself, all the other inmates I talked to,
and the policemen, were confused with," says O'Dwyer. "It's not something you'd expect, would you?"

When his bail was cleared the following day, the legal challenge he faced was considerably bigger than he had expected.

His extradition hearings are based solely on proving he has a case to answer in the US,
that his actions, if proven, would be a crime in both countries, and other technical points.
Challenging the details of the case could only be done in US courts, not in the UK.
O'Dwyer finds himself baffled that it's the US that's prosecuting him:
"The evidence is here, I'm here, I've never been to America since I was about 10," he says.

"There's literally no reason I can think of why it has to be heard in America,
at no point was the site ever in America.

Again, I ask for support for this petition, which is already supported by some politicians.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ukho...sa-saverichard

Although the petition is to the British Government I believe American support would be welcome.

We are all victims of SOPA and PIPA etc.

Regards
Alan

[Sgt. Tibbs]

Neither SOPA nor PIPA actually made it to be signed into law, by the way.

And trust me...an internet petition is going to have no bearing whatsoever on what governments decide regarding extradition of anyone. Unless said petition was to change the extradition agreements between the countries in question, but then all that would do is get the change to policy on a ballot, which would then need to be voted upon in an election. In order for that to happen, it would need to be signed only by those with the right to vote in the country or countries where the proposed change was to be made. It would not, however, be retroactive if it made it through the process and was adopted as law, which means it would in no way affect the outcome of this case.

Just because someone from Wikipedia thinks it's a good idea does not mean it's going to do any good. Pretty much every protest against anything is because someone thinks it's a good idea, but that doesn't mean they're going to actually have any impact on anything.

[alan12345]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Tibbs

Neither SOPA nor PIPA actually made it to be signed into law, by the way.

But that does not mean they will not come back again, perhaps under different names.

[Sgt. Tibbs]

Originally Posted by alan12345

But that does not mean they will not come back again, perhaps under different names.

True. But your continuous mentioning of them implies that this particular court case is directly caused by their implementation, which is untrue.

[Rikky]

I don't have any sympathy for him either.

I hate copyright laws,I think they over reach but if your making £140,000 a year in revenue from your website you have to ask yourself why am I making so much money? To make money you have to create wealth,goods or services,if you create goods you must know where those goods are from,if you provide a service you must know what that service provides.

I don't buy he's just a naive student,no one that smart could not know his business was not operating in the grey area of law,even if he didn't know what he was doing was wrong he knew damn well what he was doing was morally wrong.

I have every sympathy for individuals who fall foul of copyright law for personal consumption but not for companies who make money from copyright infringement.

He won't be extradited but even if he is keep in context the amount of revenue the site was making £140,000 per year,this isn't a small case or a small crime,he isn't a hapless "22 year old"student in which butter wouldn't melt so don't fall for it.

[gloozit]

I don't like how you stated this. (And I do disagree with many US foreign policies and the fact that we think we are the world's cops. We need to stop getting into other's business)

The FBI invaded New Zealand to enforce an extradition.

It clearly says, in the article:

a New Zealand assault team consisting of helicopters and special defense forces and police armed with automatic weapons invaded the private Auckland home of Mega Upload founder and CEO Kim Dotcom.

The FBI merely asked for the extradition. Yeah, there may have been some pressure, but New Zealand is it's own country, isn't it? They did not have to give him up.

And I'm pretty sure I can pick any nation in the world and pick it's policies apart. After all they are only governments, run by people, who are not intelligent enough, to stay out of politics.
Seems to me, all the money that comes from here, gets accepted, without criticism, even from out biggest critics.

SOPA doesn't bother me a bit.
All I can say is if you break the law, expect a knock on the door and don't whine when it comes.