Installing heatsink/fan combo over CPU

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Denise_M, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Hi,

    I bought a Biostar TForce6100-939 Socket 939 Barebone Kit / AMD Athlon 64 3200+ OEM / 512MB DDR PC3200 (I EXCHANGED IT FOR 2 512Mb TWIN STICKS) / CPU Fan / ATX Mid-Tower Case / 450 Watt Power Supply . . . I just started to put it together so this will be the first of many questions that I'll be asking. The instructions that came with the motherboard are very poor. They consist of one page that explains how to place the CPU and one page that explains how to install the RAM, which are the two easiest things to do. The remainder of 2 pages only point out things such as power headers, but it doesn't say what should be connected to them.

    For right now, though, this is my question . . .

    The Masscool AMD K8 Cooler Fan is a fan/heatsink combination "designed especially for AMD Athlon 64 CPUs." In the box, there is a tube of "Heatsink Compounds" that looks like Elmer's Glue. The instructions state that if the CPU isn't greased, then a thin layer of grease should be applied to the top of the CPU. Since the tube is labelled Heatsink Compounds and the instructions call for grease, I'm not sure if compounds is grease. Is it? To me, a compound is something that binds, like glue does. And grease is slippery like oil. Also, do I put it on with my finger, a brush or something like a paper towel?

    No laughing!
     
  2. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    No laughing here. ;)

    The heatsink compound is like a grease because it never really dries out.

    If you use your finger (or anything else for that matter) to smear the grease/compound onto the CPU then make sure you are grounded first becuase you could electrostatically fry your CPU other wise. :eek:
     
  3. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Thanks so much Yargwel!

    I'm very well grounded . . . wristband, antistatic mat and I sprayed Static Guard all over (but not on the components).

    After I get this done, I'll be attaching the motherboard to the case . . . whoopeeeeeeeee!!!!! Progress!!!!!!

    :celebrate
     
  4. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    When fitting the motherboard, just make sure that the little reddish fibre washers are under the screwheads as the screws go through the board.
     
  5. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Thanks for that advice baklogic. I just checked a bag of computer screws that I bought a few months ago and there are about 8 of them . . . I never would've thought.

    After figuring out why I couldn't attach the fan/heat sink, I realized that the fan/heat sink and the motherboard both had supporters. So the fan/heat sink are attached!

    Are the red washers needed for installing brackets, etc, also?


    I have a spare "metal plate." Steps 1 and 2 of the fan/heat sink instructions says, "Put the metal plate to the back of motherboard. Outstanding must reach the hole of motherboard and the flat surface opposite." I have no idea what this means. The pictures are only about 1" square and they're zoomed in on the piece of equipment so that it's impossible to tell where on the motherboard they're placing it. Actually, I don't see anyplace on the motherboard where it would fit. The CPU is in the CPU slot, the fan/heat sink supporter is screwed into the motherboard, and the fan/heat sink is on top of the CPU, attached to the supporter perfectly.

    I don't like having spare parts . . . it makes me nervous.
     
  6. ASUS

    ASUS MajorGeek

    Heatsink compound / Thermal paste does Dry out

    Don't use your finger, Oils from your skin can contaminate the thermal paste thus it might be possible it would reduce it's thermal capabilities

    The proper application of Thermal Paste can vary between brands
    Some Thermal Paste is Conductive where as too much can kill your hardware
    I'd suggest a very small amount aprox the size of a 1/2 grain of rice, no touchy with fingers let the compression of HS to Chip spread the Paste

    Less is usually Best:major
     
  7. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    I already spread the paste using my finger and I used about 3 grains of rice . . . it seemed pretty thin. I also connected the fan/heat sink. Should I take it off? What should I use to remove the compound and what should I use to put it back on? Should I put just the 1/2 grain of rice amount in the middle of the CPU and put the fan/heat sink on without spreading it around?
     
  8. ASUS

    ASUS MajorGeek

  9. ASUS

    ASUS MajorGeek

    Yes....

    3 grain's was too much
     
  10. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Hi Asus . . . Thanks for your help

    The bag of screws that came with the case has several different types of screws and 2 fairly large-sized screws with threads around their sides, as if for traction for finger-turning. There aren't any washers in the bag though.


    When trying to connect the motherboard to the case, the back plate cutout doesn't match the ports on the motherboard. I was given an additional back plate that fits the motherboard perfectly, though, but when I tried to remove the existing backplate, there are no screws holding it in and exerting considerable force didn't budge it. How can I remove it to replace it with the one that's compatible with the motherboard?


    What measures should I use to remove the compound and reapply the 1/2 grain of rice amount?


    Denise
     
  11. viper_boy403

    viper_boy403 MajorGeek

    RUBBING alcohol (no booze! lol) to remove old thermal paste. as for the mobo tray, most cases nowadays are removable, u just have to find the screw(s) that hold it in.
     
  12. ASUS

    ASUS MajorGeek

    The MOBO backplate (IO Plate) on your case should just POP out, actually from the outside of the case you would push it inwards to remove it, then the one than came with your MOBO can be installed, the MOBO hold's it in


    When ever I install or reinstall a CPU Heat Sink , I always use Isopropyl Alcohol 91% or higher to clean the HS & the CPU
    Rubbing alcohol I suppose will be fine, just make sure it's dry before appling Thermal Paste
    I dont use rubbing alcohol because it contains more water than the 91% Isopropyl


    Hey Denise, once you build one Puter it's easy
    Just take your time, read instructions twice & double check everything.
    When in doubt, Ask, Google er what ever
    Careful whom you take advice from ;)

    Viper_Boy is OK, but he uses cheap PSU's :p
     
  13. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Well, that left me with some bad news. The back panel was attached to the case using security screws for which I have no implement to remove them. Also, the existing back panel is strong and color coded. The replacement is flimsy and isn't color coded.

    I might be able to find an implement to remove the security screws but do you know if I can purchase a more durable and color coded backplate?

    I've attached a picture of the back panel.

    Denise
     

    Attached Files:

  14. ASUS

    ASUS MajorGeek

    Color coded dont matter, most all IO plates are flimsy or appear so, this does not matter either, it's never been a problem


    I dont think I have ever seen security screw on an IO plate
    I have in the past purchased security screw bits from Ace Hardware, other places Fasten All, Grainger maybe Lowes or even Home Depot

    Another option might be to drill em out

    What brand Case is this?
     
  15. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    The screws holding the back panel in have a circle with a raised bump off to the side, so I assumed they were security screws. Since they provided an alternate panel, I would think they'd use regular screws to secure it to make it easy to replace the panel.

    The name of the case is Ultra Wizard Black ATX Mid-Tower Case with Front USB and Firewire Ports. I attached another picture of the case.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Here's a URL for my case. It shows a bunch of wires on the top of the case that I don't have. I have only the wires that are on the bottom of the case. Do you know if I'm going to have to buy them? It looks as though the wires were removed because there were a few wads of tape in the top right of the case.

    http://www.ubuyitdirect.com/-p-3159.html?currency=USD

    Denise
     
  17. viper_boy403

    viper_boy403 MajorGeek

    the wires at the top are the PSU wires. If it didnt come with a PSU then they shouldnt be there. the bottom ones are for the front panel; power, reset button, hdd activity light, USB ports, etc
     
  18. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Well it shouldn't if it's decent stuff but, okay I'll agree that it can. :)

    As for using your finger the chance of reducing the thermal properties is slim to none. I've never had any problems and I've fitted a few CPU's in my time. But again I understand your caution :)
     
  19. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Oh $#*% . . . now I'm going to have to ask another question that's going to have you all either laughing or rolling your eyes and shakin' your heads . . . what's a PSU? . . . *groan*
     
  20. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Power Supply Unit. :)
     
  21. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    hmm . . . I Googled PSU . . . Power Supply Unit. One came with the kit, An OKIA ATX Power Supply and it has a bunch of wires attached to it.

    Since I'm having a problem removing the back panel, can I install the PSU before I install the motherboard?

    Can I install the DVD CD read/write +-, etc before I install the motherboard too?

    Neither of these devices came with screws. Are there particular types of screws that are better than others to install these devices.

    Denise
     
  22. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    P.S. Thanks Yargwel :)
     
  23. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Most of the wires from the PSU lead to the plugs with which you'll power all the devices such as the Hard Drive, DVD etc.

    You can install the PSU before the mobo as long as there's enough room to get the board past the power supply.. Same goes for the other devices. Just remember you'll need the mobo working before your PC will control any of these devices. ;)
     
  24. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    I pressed with all my might and the back panel didn't budge or even bend. I tried pushing from both the outside and the inside. It's in there solidly. Without removing the rivet-type screws, I won't be able to switch the panel and, so far, I haven't figured out a way to remove the rivet-type screws. I'm thinking of taking the tower to a place like Home Depot to see if they have the right implement to remove them.
     
  25. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Have you still got a mobo in the case ie an original one?

    I ask because what you are calling the back panel is often connected directly to the motherboard.
     
  26. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    It seems like I'm having one problem after the other fitting things into the case.

    The DVD/CD read/write +1, etc, burner doesn't fit into the any of the external 5.25" bays. I tried putting it in the case from the inside but it won't go in any further than about 1/4", and I tried to open the panels from the outside in case it could be slid into the bay from the front, but the panels won't open.

    No screws in that box either. Is there a particular kind of screw needed to install the ROM drive?
     
  27. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    No, it's a brand new kit. Each piece came in its own box. Nothing is in the case except for the wires for the front panel.
     
  28. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Normally DVD drives slide in from the front. The plastic panels on the front of the case where the drive would fit need to be pushed out. They are usually attached by a small plastic weld at each edge.
     
  29. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Can you post a close up picture of how this back plate is fitted and one of the plate that you need to fit so I can "picture" it more clearly.
     
  30. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    This worked. . . I just finished installing the ROM drive.

    I never would have thought of pushing out the metal and plastic panels. I'm so lucky to have you guys and/or gals helping me.

    For screws, I took them out of the bag and seperated them by size and type. There were only 2 types that I could use to install the ROM drive and one was too fat to screw in.

    I don't have a digital camera, sorry . . . I wish I did.
     
  31. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    I found this picture at another site. If you look at the outter corners, you'll see very fainst round silver screws/divets. It probably won't tell you anything but it's the best picture that I found on the net that shows the screws/divets
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 9, 2007
  32. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Well I'm glad you got that bit sorted. :)

    Maybe Asus will have some more ideas on the back plate when he comes on-line. :)
     
  33. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Another picture that shows the faint silver divets/screws/
     

    Attached Files:

  34. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Thanks for helping me install the ROM drive :)
     
  35. Yargwel

    Yargwel MajorGeek

    Ok Denise. From the pictures you have posted I'm a little confused as to what you are trying to remove. The bit with the connectors? Or something else?
     
  36. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

  37. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Hi Yargwel,

    I'm trying to remove the back panel that's held to the case in a frame. That frame has divets/screws to keep it attached to the case. The back panel itself is sitting inside what can best be described as another frame. No screws/divets are holding the back panel in that frame. So it's inside a frame that's inside a diveted frame.


    Hi Matacumbie,

    Now that I read the posts at the forum at the url you gave me, I can see that, even if I did remove the divets/screws, it wouldn't help me get the back panel out. It would still be inside the frame that's inside the diveted frame.

    The one thing that I'm concerned about, after I whack out the original back panel, is how I'm going to get the other back panel in. The one that's in the case now is strong, not pliable at all. The one that I have to put in is very pliable. A slight pressure applied to it makes it bend so I'm concerned that it might get bent out of shape when I try to put it in.

    Also, I have no 2x4's hanging around. The only substitute that I can come up with is a book . . . place a book on top of the back panel and whack the book with a hammer. . . I know, it's a very poor substitute, but looking around, I can't find anything else that has that shape.

    Any other ideas for a substitution for wood?
     
  38. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Ok, I got the back panel out by placing a rubber door stop on top of it and whacking the doorstop hard with the butt of a screwdriver. I can see why it was so hard to get out because I'm having a very hard time getting the new one in . . . I cut one of my fingers pretty bad on the sharp edges. The inside of the new back panel is very pliable but the frame of it isn't.

    Any suggestions on how to get it into the slot easier?
     
  39. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

    Just be careful pushing it in, but you have to force them sometimes. Just kind of push, let off, push again a little harder......and so on. It will pop in.

    Be careful with those fingers, especially when you start putting the hardware in, the inside of some cases can be very sharp. ;)

    You are a resourceful gal, a rubber doorstop? That has got to be a new one. :D

    Steve
     
  40. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Ok, I got the new back panel in! My fingers will never be the same and I won't be able to eat with a fork for a while, but it's in!

    And I just removed the fan/heat sink and removed the compound using alcohol, waited a while to make sure it would be completely dry, put an amount that's the size of 1/2 grain of rice of new compound on the CPU and reinstalled the fan/heat sink. Whew!

    But, we did it! :highfive

    Gonna sit back and watch a movie and let my mind veg for a while.
     
  41. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

    Good job! :clap

    Steve
     
  42. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    I see you are getting there, and getting the help as you need it - as explained by Asus, and Yargwel, the abbreviations used in computing can be confusing when you start out.
    The washers are never explained anywhere, that was why I mentioned that, and as ASUS pointed out that is all they are for, -any spare ones keep in a bag with spare screws.
    That fixed i/o plate (or, backplate)is certainly a new one on me , too. I can imagine that messing you up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2007
  43. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    You all deserve a big hand also, and a :grouphug

    Denise
     
  44. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    Hi Geeks ;)

    Well, I've gone about as far as I can without starting to plug things in. The motherboard is installed and also the power supply.

    I bought everything for this computer over 6 months ago and it took me this long to get up the courage to start putting it together. When I got the parts together the other day, I didn't remember what was in the boxes when I opened them when I got them. When I looked in the ROM drive box, there aren't any cables or a manual. I Googled BenQ 6500 to look for cables to go with it but got no hits. Would any DVD ROM drive cable fit the one I have or do I need to look for a certain type?
     
  45. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    I always use round ATA 133 , 80 WIRE , 40 PIN, CABLES/ 3WAY-But you can use virtually any 40 pin IDE CABLE, The better the cable, the better the data transfer rate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007
  46. Matacumbie

    Matacumbie Rocky Top

  47. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

  48. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

  49. Denise_M

    Denise_M MajorGeek

    backlogic, would

    be compatible with a SATA hdd?

    Denise
     
  50. baklogic

    baklogic The Tinkerer

    For the usual CD/DVD WRITER, IT RUNS ON IDE, CABLE.Your dvd os IDE--You can get converters, if you needed them, but normally your Motherboard will have one IDE connection point, for the dvd rom.It will usually have a similar , but smaller point for the floppy drive - if you look at the layout in the motherboard diagram, you should see them.
    S-ATA IS GRADUALLY BECOMING AVAILABLE FOR NEW S-ATA DVD ROMS, BUT NOT UNIVERSALLY AVAILABLE , YET.
     

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