To Buy or Not To Buy a IMAC

[lwmlwm44]

Howdy........currently using Windows XP and without going into details have decided to go look for something new and hopefully better.

A friend recommended I look into getting a IMAC Desktop.....really like their commercials, although that should not be a major reason to buy one I know.

Anyway, I like the features of a IMAC especially the built in web cam. Am having major issues with my HP pavilion desktop and my web cam and have tried various solutions to fix the problem with no lasting effect.........but then again, that is another story

Would like to hear any comments about folks out there who have a IMAC and their comments about it............especailly folks who may have switched from Microsoft products to Mac.

Am somewhat of a novice to computers, so hopefully anyone responding will keep that in mind.

Thanks Again

Larry Meyers

[Adrynalyne]

I think you would find OS X a fun and easy to use Operating System. Its superior to XP thats for sure. However you must ask yourself. Are you willing to spend a considerable premium on hardware, for a superior OS?

Im not. I did in the past, I will not again. I currently use OS X and Linux as a reference in case you think Im a windows fanboy

[mactech]

The new Intel based iMacs are great! The G5 iMacs had a bunch of issues with the logic boards, but the not the new ones. Also, you can run XP on the Intel chip. That is like buying two computers in one. Plus the Macs don't get viruses, adware, or spyware which is worth the price in itself. The last reply was absolutely right about OS X. The Mac OS is far superior to XP and Unix based. I am a little biased since I have been an Apple Service Provider since 1995. However, I own both Macs and PCs and I never use the PCs.

[Adrynalyne]

"Plus the Macs don't get viruses, adware, or spyware which is worth the price in itself."

This isn't completely tue. They are out there, and as OS X popularity increases, so will they.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/

Despite the fact you can run dual boot both, the fact remains, the price premium is considerable. You can buy a lot more machine for the price you pay in a Mac.



If the premium is of no consequence though, by all means, go for it.

[mactech]

Let me know how many viruses you have run across on a Mac? Yes, they exist but it is unlikely you will ever be effected. Cost of course is always a consideration.

[Adrynalyne]

Read what I said before retorting?

[krazykrl]

Originally Posted by Adrynalyne

"Plus the Macs don't get viruses, adware, or spyware which is worth the price in itself."

This isn't completely tue. They are out there, and as OS X popularity increases, so will they.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/

Despite the fact you can run dual boot both, the fact remains, the price premium is considerable. You can buy a lot more machine for the price you pay in a Mac.



If the premium is of no consequence though, by all means, go for it.

There have been some proof of concepts but no real viruses or malware that have infected one Mac and which then infected thousands more like in the case of a PC. I don't know any Mac user who has fell victim to malware. The PC however, I don't think I could name anyone who uses Windows who hasn't fell victim to viruses or malware.

The iMac is a great product, and it's really not that expensive in contrast to PC prices when you take into account what you are getting for your buck. You will be more than satisfied. I will admit, that the higher end Macs are a bit pricey, and their laptops are very expensive, but an iMac is comparable. I suggest going for it.

[Major Attitude]

Simply put, the Mac has failed to take market share, so this remains unproven. The theory is that the same people who use PC would be as click happy, opening crap and clicking viagra ads in email, that they would get infected as they do on PC. If you look at any Mac security release log, it reads just like the Windows log.

That said, Mac is a great machine with a great OS. I saw a recent article that picked on both operating systems because we keep getting all of these high speed processors (8 core is coming and neither os can use the 8 cores) and the os is going to soon be the big limitation. Too much effort into pretty pictures, not enough effort into functionality.

I would buy a Mac if it had more programs available, the new Intel chips are awesome making it even better, but the price is expensive and the hardware is not optional or changeable.

If you have the money, and don't care about those things, you will love it. It comes with plenty of programs to edit music, movies and photos and for the average joe it can be a great machine.

[Adrynalyne]

Originally Posted by krazykrl

There have been some proof of concepts but no real viruses or malware that have infected one Mac and which then infected thousands more like in the case of a PC. I don't know any Mac user who has fell victim to malware. The PC however, I don't think I could name anyone who uses Windows who hasn't fell victim to viruses or malware.

The iMac is a great product, and it's really not that expensive in contrast to PC prices when you take into account what you are getting for your buck. You will be more than satisfied. I will admit, that the higher end Macs are a bit pricey, and their laptops are very expensive, but an iMac is comparable. I suggest going for it.

Worm, virus, trojan. Its all the same to the consumer.

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxleapa.html
http://www.macintouch.com/opener.html
http://www.symantec.com/security_res...051315-0822-99


Its not much, but its a start. My original point was, its not factual to say they dont exist. The likely outcome is: OS X becomes more popular and the viruses start getting cranked out.So to purchase a Mac on the premise of no malware--isnt a wise investment.

As for the iMac being comparable, you are looking at ~3-400 dollar premium for lesser hardware and less ram. Dell has a competitor with double the ram, a 19 inch LCD, dual core CPU, better video, DVD burner (vs none on iMac) and a bigger hard drive for 649 dollars(vs 999 for iMac). There are more items of concern, like Apple upgrading a machine soon after you bought it, and charging the same price for the new and improved....only to be stuck with a machine that is marginally upgradeable...you can read my blog if you want my perspective.

Its like MA said, if price is of no concern, go for it. OS X is a nice Operating System. But if price has any baring..you probably dont want to do it. I only note warnings because I dont want anyone else to get burned on their premiums like I did.

[krazykrl]

Originally Posted by Adrynalyne

Worm, virus, trojan. Its all the same to the consumer.

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/osxleapa.html
http://www.macintouch.com/opener.html
http://www.symantec.com/security_res...051315-0822-99


Its not much, but its a start. My original point was, its not factual to say they dont exist. The likely outcome is: OS X becomes more popular and the viruses start getting cranked out.So to purchase a Mac on the premise of no malware--isnt a wise investment.

As for the iMac being comparable, you are looking at ~3-400 dollar premium for lesser hardware and less ram. Dell has a competitor with double the ram, a 19 inch LCD, dual core CPU, better video, DVD burner (vs none on iMac) and a bigger hard drive for 649 dollars(vs 999 for iMac). There are more items of concern, like Apple upgrading a machine soon after you bought it, and charging the same price for the new and improved....only to be stuck with a machine that is marginally upgradeable...you can read my blog if you want my perspective.

Its like MA said, if price is of no concern, go for it. OS X is a nice Operating System. But if price has any baring..you probably dont want to do it. I only note warnings because I dont want anyone else to get burned on their premiums like I did.

OK look, you get what you pay for. All I am saying is that between a company like Dell and Apple, I think Apple is the better deal. Apple comes with FULL VERSION copies of apps such as iMovie, iTunes and more, when a Dell or HP will only come with TRIAL copies of applications that do less.

Since Larry already said he is a novice and hasn't said anything about needing to run any apps that would require him to change hardware in the future, I don't think there will be a need for that.

If a novice user like Larry, can get an iMac, have a working webcam, have an OS that just works and isn't plagued with malware, right now, I don't mean in 4-5 years when maybe someone will create malware for the Mac, right now the fact is there really aren't any clear threats out there. He can use an OS right now that will just work, and he can get at least 4 years out of the iMac and the only thing he may want to upgrade would be RAM. It's not necessary for the average user to be upgrading Video cards, Hard drives or other various hardware, nor should they have to just to get their OS or apps to run (Vista nab there).

Anyways, I am sure I will get some retorts to this. Larry, buy an iMac you will be more than pleased. The price is higher than other PC manufacturers but you get so much more, and in the long run it's worth it. Thats my advice/opinion.

-- Karl

[Adrynalyne]

No retort, because I already said what needed saying.

That said, I am going to post a new blog entry, and krazy, I offer a friendly challenge to you to address just how much more OS X(on an iMac) comes with vs another OEM that justifies the premium. That way it doesnt continue here.

Interested?

Edit: Not even a new entry. This one is fine.

http://adrynalyne.blogspot.com/2007/...-forright.html

[Philipp]

I am currently having 3 Macs (PowerMac G5 Dual, MacMini G4, and iBook G4) and think that all three machines were worth the price. I like the overall stability of this platform. It was the first one that had no driver or any other crash related problems. I guess it is a big advantage that Apple is both software and hardware vendor.

As for the iMac, I would suggest at least the model with the SuperDrive (DVD burner), 1GB Ram, and ATI Radeon X1600 GPU for $1199. The entry model ($999) comes only with 512MB Ram, shared video GPU, and CD burner.

[lwmlwm44]

Howdy all and thanks for all the comments and suggestions regarding IMAC. You have cleared up somethings for me and then again left me with more questions and issues. The IMAC I would consdier buying is the X1600 for $1199...............as one of you find folks suggested.

Will look into Dell........the main thing is I would like to get away from Microsoft and not have to run Windows XP which I understand is no longer available at some stores.........had gone to Wal Mart to buy a versions for a friend and they don't even carry it anymore. Probably available at different web sites for sale but never ventured further as he had a friend who had a copy of it for him.

Not interested in the new VISTA either which is on all the new machines I have looked at. Am hearing to many bad reports on it and just not that experienced with computers to have to deal with those issues. No I am not a geek and wish I was more geekier. What really bugs me at times is even when using a microsoft screensave it will perform an illegal operation which always confuses me when Microsofts own programs do things like that.

Anyway, really enjoy Geeks here and enjoy reading and learning from this site.

YOu all take care and Happy Geeking

Novice Geek in Training


Larry

[Adrynalyne]

If your mind is made up, you may want to wait for OS X Leopard to be released (OS X 10.5). I've heard the fall, but dont know for certain.

[krazykrl]

Originally Posted by Adrynalyne

If your mind is made up, you may want to wait for OS X Leopard to be released (OS X 10.5). I've heard the fall, but dont know for certain.

Don't wait for Leopard. You can upgrade the OS later on. Tiger is more than enough.

[Adrynalyne]

Yep, you can upgrade later for extra money on top of the already hefty premium, or wait a bit and save some green.

Its a lot like get XP now, or wait for Vista back months ago.

Here is the Apple sneak preview:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Its all up to you

[lwmlwm44]

Back Again..........first of all I want to thank you all for all your time and help regarding my questions. Second of all, I love the wit and dry huimor Adrynalyne has in his comments and recommendations..........you sound like a really neat person and know your stuff.........definitely a Major Geek.........and I say that with respect and admiration. The only thing I am a bit confused about is sometimes I am confused by your comments.........I think you like IMAC and Apple and then at times you have some issues with them..........then again, imagine everyone has issues with something or another regardless if its good or not. Another question I have is sometimes when I read comments I see the term Buying a MAC or a PC.........as if they are 2 different critters. Arnt MAC's considered a regular PC within the Geek World?

Humbly Submitted by Novice Geek In Training (aka Newbie)

Larry

[lwmlwm44]

Forgot to ask one last thing in my post...........I really like and use Internet Explorer and Yahoo for webbing and emails......it is what I learned on and am familar and comfortable with..........dumb question....can I still use these systems if I get a IMAC without having to install Windows XP on it. Read about Firefox I think it is called........is this the system mac uses for internet surfing.........I have heard supposedly that it is a more safe system to run than IE.

Again thank you for your patience with my lack of knowledge in these issues.

Larry

[Adrynalyne]

Larry,

My only gripe about Apple is the price. It irks me to no end, and when I bought my first Mac, I didn't really take heed of the same warning I gave here. It really does leave a bad taste in your mouth. Its no different than buying that stereo you want so bad at Store A, only to find its on sale 50 percent off at store B. Or worse, finding a better model with more features for 50 percent off. I guess thats the buyer's remorse in me.
That said, I love OS X. I like how it looks, I like how it works, I like its complexity, and I like its features (which only now windows is catching up with). Leopard excites me, there are aome really cool features in it (like Time Machine and Spaces). Software support is considerably smaller, but I've never had issue finding software that didn't do the job. OS X has its quirks too. Uninstalling software is messy. OS X doesnt use the traditional registry, but the apps that dont have an uninstaller, you simple delete them from Applications. Apple would have you believe that you are through with it at that point, but it leaves all sorts of little files across the system in other folders too, which if you want a clean removal, you have to go hunt for those files across your filesystem, manually(isnt that a step backwards?). I will not go so far to say its easier than using Windows. Its...different, but not easier. It can be infinitely more complex, if you want it to be, which is nice.

The other thing that angers me to no end is warranty support. I purchased an extended Applecare warranty to find out the diagnostics CD it came with doesn't support OS X Tiger. Then, my powerbook stopped closing, and Apple denied my warranty claim. This of course, you can get on the Windows side of things too, but it still angers me.

iMacs are PCs, sorta. PC has just been used to describe non Macs for so long, its more familiar to separate them I suppose. Not so long ago, they were different critters, Apples using the PowerPC arch. and PCs using x86. So in short, all biased comments aside, all arguments aside, I love OS X. I like it better than WIndows. I end up liking Linux better than both though. What I don't like is the price. No amount of bickering will convince me otherwise that it is worth it. I mentioned that you might want to opt to wait for Leopard, because then you get the new OS with the machine and dont ahve to spend even MORE money. Thats personal choice, of course, OSX typically runs 129 bucks in the stores.

Don't kid yourself. No OS is bug free, and totally secure.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/

Apples DO crash. I've frozen the X server on OS X several times, just doing normal work. I've had a kernel panic on boot. I've had just as many Windows crashes, aside from hardware failures, which of course, crash anything. But its not often at all.

As for Internet Explorer. It is a web browser, and there are replacements. Microsoft discontinued IE for Mac a while back, along with Windows Media Player. Browser replacements are plenty, with stuff like Firefox, Camino( more elegant version of Firefox, written specifically for OS X), Shiiva(cuting edge browser with cool features), and Safari. OS X ships with Safari. There is a media plugin to play WIndows Media files. The reason why Macs are safer on the net is the void in malware and spyware. This can change at any time though!

Some things I love in OS X that are not in Windows:

Expose. It takes folder, file, and application switching to a whole new level.
Dashboard. Widgets are available at one key, then hid out of the way when you don't need them, maximizing screen real estate.
Dock. What can I say? its cool.
Aqua. Its easy on the eyes
Built on Unix. I can fiddle with the command line and feel right at home.

All that said, I think I've covered what I wanted to.

Still doesn't change the fact that Windows can do most of these for cheaper though! (Gotta have my little poke)

I don't like it, but it is true.


--Jeremy

[krazykrl]

SORRY, I Have to bite into this a little...


My only gripe about Apple is the price. It irks me to no end, and when I bought my first Mac, I didn't really take heed of the same warning I gave here. It really does leave a bad taste in your mouth. Its no different than buying that stereo you want so bad at Store A, only to find its on sale 50 percent off at store B. Or worse, finding a better model with more features for 50 percent off. I guess thats the buyer's remorse in me.

**The price for a Mac is fair because it generally comes with technology not found in Windows PC's. i.e. FireWire (6-pin), built-in Gigabit ethernet (many PC manufacturers still only offer 10/100), DVI output, slot-loading optical drives and overall quality.

That said, I love OS X. I like how it looks, I like how it works, I like its complexity, and I like its features (which only now windows is catching up with). Leopard excites me, there are aome really cool features in it (like Time Machine and Spaces). Software support is considerably smaller, but I've never had issue finding software that didn't do the job. OS X has its quirks too. Uninstalling software is messy. OS X doesnt use the traditional registry, but the apps that dont have an uninstaller, you simple delete them from Applications. Apple would have you believe that you are through with it at that point, but it leaves all sorts of little files across the system in other folders too, which if you want a clean removal, you have to go hunt for those files across your filesystem, manually(isnt that a step backwards?). I will not go so far to say its easier than using Windows. Its...different, but not easier. It can be infinitely more complex, if you want it to be, which is nice.

***Unlike Windows, having a few orphaned application files lingering in OSX will not slow your computer down (as in the case with the Windows registry), and in most cases will not take nearly as much space as Windows normally does. What is not mentioned is how easy it can be to install/upgrade applications. In the case of an internet browser like FireFox, you no longer need to run an 'installer', what you do is simply download the app, drag it to your applications folder and you're done. The preferences and bookmark files are stored elsewhere and won't be lost when replacing the application with a new one.

The other thing that angers me to no end is warranty support. I purchased an extended Applecare warranty to find out the diagnostics CD it came with doesn't support OS X Tiger. Then, my powerbook stopped closing, and Apple denied my warranty claim. This of course, you can get on the Windows side of things too, but it still angers me.

***Apple's warranty and support has been award winning for many years. There are far more nightmares on the Windows side than Apple, just ask a few average Dell users his or her experience with Dell support. Apple is not perfect, obviously there will always be some unhappy customers.

iMacs are PCs, sorta. PC has just been used to describe non Macs for so long, its more familiar to separate them I suppose. Not so long ago, they were different critters, Apples using the PowerPC arch. and PCs using x86. So in short, all biased comments aside, all arguments aside, I love OS X. I like it better than WIndows. I end up liking Linux better than both though. What I don't like is the price. No amount of bickering will convince me otherwise that it is worth it. I mentioned that you might want to opt to wait for Leopard, because then you get the new OS with the machine and dont ahve to spend even MORE money. Thats personal choice, of course, OSX typically runs 129 bucks in the stores.

***PC means 'Personal Computer'. It could apply to any virtually any computer. PC has long been referenced to Windows because there are so many variants of Windows machines, PC is just an easy to reference them. Mac is an easy way to reference an Apple Computer. Apple now uses Intel processors due to limitations with the PowerPC processor. In the Mac world, most people do not upgrade to a new OS as soon as it is released, unless you are forced to when buying a new computer and it already comes with it. I suggest buying now and waiting to upgrade to Leopard to allow any bugs or features to be tweaked. You may have to shell out $129.00 but it won't be for another year or more, and it will be worth it. Besides, it's better than trying to get a PC with Windows XP, and then being forced to shell out $400.00 bucks for Vista in the future isn't it? Mac OS X Tiger has very similar features to Vista, and is way beyond the capabilities of Windows XP. You won't be behind in technology at all.

Don't kid yourself. No OS is bug free, and totally secure.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/

***Very true, but, don't be fooled, OS X is far more secure than Windows and is not susceptible to the same vulnerabilities such as Spyware, malware and others not currently found in OS X.

Apples DO crash. I've frozen the X server on OS X several times, just doing normal work. I've had a kernel panic on boot. I've had just as many Windows crashes, aside from hardware failures, which of course, crash anything. But its not often at all.

***I agree Macs do crash, no application is perfect, sometimes you even have to reinstall the OS, but I guarantee it will be a better experience if you ever need to go that far. You would be amazed how easy it is to migrate all your data during a reinstall and/or upgrade.

As for Internet Explorer. It is a web browser, and there are replacements. Microsoft discontinued IE for Mac a while back, along with Windows Media Player. Browser replacements are plenty, with stuff like Firefox, Camino( more elegant version of Firefox, written specifically for OS X), Shiiva(cuting edge browser with cool features), and Safari. OS X ships with Safari. There is a media plugin to play WIndows Media files. The reason why Macs are safer on the net is the void in malware and spyware. This can change at any time though!

Some things I love in OS X that are not in Windows:

Expose. It takes folder, file, and application switching to a whole new level.
Dashboard. Widgets are available at one key, then hid out of the way when you don't need them, maximizing screen real estate.
Dock. What can I say? its cool.
Aqua. Its easy on the eyes
Built on Unix. I can fiddle with the command line and feel right at home.

***Other things not found in Windows...

iMovie, the most simplest app to use to create a movie, in my opinion.
iDVD, another app to simplify making your own DVD's, menu and all.
Photo Booth, an application that compliments the webcam, very fun and cool.
.Mac. Very cool, always adding new features, fully integrated into the OS.


All that said, I think I've covered what I wanted to.

Still doesn't change the fact that Windows can do most of these for cheaper though! (Gotta have my little poke)

***Cheaper is not always better. You get what you pay for. Plain and simple.