Cleaning a messy computer - literally

A lady at work gave me a system that her brother patched together for her to get her by until she could get a new machine. This was a hideous beast composed of an EliteGroup K7S5A Pro mobo, 1.15 ghz AMD Athlon processor, 256 MB PC 2100 RAM, and a Radeon 9200 Pro AGP video card (overkill) all in a broken, sideless, void-filled case.

She told me that she had been having problems with the system rebooting itself (virus?) but a new HDD fixed this problem. However, lately the system would freeze up on boot. This, combined with her son's desire to play higher end games, inpsired her to get a new system with her tax return money.

Always willing to take free hardware, I took the machine home to see what I could do with it. When I booted the system for the first time at my house, I expected to see a billion programs running on start up. Much to my surprise, there were few programs running and the machine responded VERY well considering what was under the hood.

I tried investigating the cause of the freeze ups by first scanning the memory for problems using MS Memory Diagnostic. The RAM came back error free. Next, I scanned the HDD using SeaTools. I again found no issues.

I ran a virus scan, both at boot time and in Windows and only found a few adware hits, which was surprising considering she was not running any real time protection.
The next day I told her about how the system worked just fine for me. She responded that her brother said the same thing. I asked her if she had been online during these freeze ups and she said that she was. Neither I, nor her brother, were. We are hypothesizing that the freeze ups may be related to her Belkin router, not the PC itself.

My next step was to free the system from its unsightly enclosure. A friend had an unused case that although broken itself, was leaps and bounds better than the current. I removed the mobo and video card and dusted them with some air. I am surprised that the GPU fan could even spin for all the dust that was in there.

Upon further inspection of the mobo and video card, I noticed some brown crusty spots scattered here and there. It looks as though someone at some time had spilled Coke or another dark soda on the board and it had dried and crusted. I am going to assume that the substance had dried before the next power up, as I can't imagine a mobo surviving a liquid contact while in use.

I have been trying to clean the boards with 91% alcohol, toothpicks, and a toothbrush. It is not easy. Should I even bother? If I can get it clean and get everything put back into a case, what do I do next? How do I make sure that this substance did not cause any permanent damage to the mobo, CPU or video card? Is there a mobo/CPU reliability test out there? What about for video cards?

Should I just chuck this thing or what?

I really don't care so much about the mobo, but I would like to consider selling the Radeon 9200 if I can be sure that it is in good operational condition. It will also need to look good. I can't sell a card to someone with soda (?) on it.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

Could those be from bad capacitors that erupted? If her brother is good with a soldering iron, maybe he replaced the capacitors.

 

That's what someone on another board suggested. I see no other evidence of leaking caps. Besides, if that were the case, one would have almost had to explode in order to scattter the gunk as it is.

I will investigate further though.

How do I clean the boards? How do I test the boards?

PK

 

The Fix-It utilities include some pretty good hardware test routines (they cover the basics and then some -- CPU, RAM, hard drive, monitor, graphics card, sound, modem, and on and on. They're not too pricey, but not cheap either. I think they typically run $30-$40, though often, if you have some old set of diagnostics (Norton System Works, System Mechanic, etc) you can find a package with a rebate sticker (that will probably require you cut out and send in the title page of your printed manual for your old diagnostic software, or otherwise confirm your eligibility for the rebate). A few of these tests require something called a "loopback connector", but not the CPU and RAM. And I think most, if not all, of the motherboard tests will run without any special connectors too.

I think the hardware test interface in Fix-It could be better designed (it usually takes awhile for the hardware list to load up and then you can uncheck any devices you don't want to test. I prefer to test just one or two items at a time and work my way through the list, as it can take some time for all tests to run.)

There's also a FixIt-Suite which is all the stuff in the utilities bundle, plus a years worth of anti-virus and anti-spyware and a few other additonal pieces of software. I guess it's a good buy (only about $10 more than the utilities alone) but I prefer to purchase my security software separately (or use good free stuff available here at MG).

I've used various versions of the Fix-It utilities for years and really like the variety of hardware and software diagnostic tests and fixes the software can perform. It also includes a pretty good registry scanner, but like all registry fix tools, that should be used with caution and you should always back up your registry before tinkering with it. Furthermore, most people are better off using a tool like CCleaner (which is free/shareware), I think, than trying to clean up their registry with other software tools.

In addition to or instead of commercial software, you can use the video tests in the Direct X Diagnosis tool that's part of Windows to perform some basic video tests. (It's in the Windows\System32 subfolder and has a icon with a yellow X on a small blue circle. Double click it to start it running, and wait for the initial tests to complete and then look for the various Direct X Video tests you can run. Keep in mind that even if the system fails some of these tests, those failures often reflect a problem with the graphics drivers, not the hardware itself. On the other hand, I guess these tests won't necessarily uncover all potential hardware problems either. But it's a start at least.)

There may be some free/shareware here at MG that can test the RAM, graphics card and motherboard.

Can anyone else suggest something from the MG downloads?

 

Someone on another board suggested a dielectric contact cleaner to clean up the gunk. Any thoughts there?

PK

 

I had to do a web search to find out what a "dielectric contact cleaner is" as I've never heard of it before. Two specific products I looked at certainly said they were suitable for cleaning electronic circuit boards. If it's not too expensive and you don't think some cotton swabs and isopropyl alcohol alone, for instance, will do the job I guess it might be worth a try. On the other hand if some elbow grease, alcohol and cotton swabs aren't really cutting it (and I guess you tried that and gave up) I'm not sure the dielectric cleaner will either.

Apparently you just spray it on and it's solvent characteristics plus the fact that it's pressurized is supposed to dislodge the gunk and either blow it off or allow you to wipe it off. But how much would you have to use if you can't clean it up by hand and how much does this stuff cost? I think the cost is probably the main thing to look at.

In addition, I noted that one product mentioned it had an ether-like smell. And I'd think in any use of a spray on solvent you'd want to be sure to work in a well ventilated area and that the solvent, when used sensibly and according to directions, doesn't pose any health risks.

Given that consideration I hope someone else here will chime in and either recommend a specific product or say it's not a good idea, as I have no experience using this stuff. I have seen WD-40 recommended as a cleaner for keyboard circuitry in need of heavy duty cleaning. Could you use WD-40 on a motherboard though? I don't know.

 

91% alcohol and cotton swabs aren't busting the gunk very well. I have to scrape with toothpicks. I think if i could soak the whole thing in alcohol overnight it might soften it up. Is that feasible?

I also wondered if that contact cleaner would be any better than alcohol.

Thanks for the tips on Fix It utilities, by the way.

PK

 

You wrote in your first post above: "I have been trying to clean the boards with 91% alcohol, toothpicks, and a toothbrush. It is not easy. Should I even bother?" Maybe not...

If you've been working as hard as it seems and not making much progress I find it difficult to believe that a spray solvent, which evaporates quickly, is going to do a better job than toothpicks, cotton swabs and alcohol. As for soaking it overnight in alcohol, that sounds risky to me. What about the fire hazard to begin with? And you'd have to be really, really certain there was no alcohol remaining anywhere on the motherboard, because once you plug in the power and turn on the system any remaining alcohol might well catch fire! (What if, for example, you had a leaky capacitor that soaked up some alcohol which didn't drain out?) I really think soaking the whole thing in alcohol could turn out very badly. Whether it would damage the motherboard directly I have no idea.

I'm inclined to say you've given this thing a pretty good shot at cleaning it up, but it just doesn't seem there's much else you can try that's likely to succeed AND can be done safely.

Of course, it could be that dielectric stuff would really turn out to be super, duper cleaning in a can, but I doubt it's going to bust gunk that you can't clean off with elbow grease and alcohol.

I hate to see computer equipment that's working well just thrown out, but the key words are "working well." And this doesn't appear to qualify. If you want to give it one last chance, I'd put it all together, run the dxdiag.exe video tests and if it passes them all and seems to be working fine otherwise, well and good. Otherwise, it's probably time to give up on it. And please don't just throw it out with the other trash. Most computer equipment contains some toxic and/or hazardous materials and should be disposed of accordingly. If you don't know where you can turn, I'd suggest a web search on recycling/disposal of electronic/computer components.

I think you've tried hard to breath new life into this motherboard. But maybe it's time to give it, and yourself, a rest.

 

Commercially, boards are cleaned in an ultrasonic bath, filled with water.
The ultrasonics create lots of minute cavitation bubbles which do the actual cleaning.
You can simulate this by using hand kitchen whisk. Dont let the blades touch anything other than water.

Boards, particularly graphics boards, are not very well soldered these days, so if you scrub to any extent you risk dislodging components.

Organic solvents, alchohol and particuarly ether will damage the plastics of components and are therefore inadvisable.

Personally I normally use a bucket of hand hot soapy water (fairy liquid) for any boards that I want cleaner than I can get with an airline.
Drain well then leave to dry in a warm place for several hours to days.

Some people recomment putting keyboard whole into the dishwasher, then drying in the oven on very low.

 

I was able to get the video card clean (visibly at least) with a brief (an hour or less) alcohol soak. I did not soak the entire card, just the side opposite the GPU on a plate with a low level of alcohol. While some did make its way on the top of the board, I do not see this being an issue. (although now you have made me paranoid about a capacitor soaking it up) I will let it sit while I now move on to the mobo, so I would think that would be more than able time to dry.

As for the mobo, I don't know how I will proceed. A friend has some contact cleaner, so I will try it. As someone on another board mentioned, can I be sure that this gunk (Coke?) is even soluble in alcohol? I may move on the distilled water, giving it a LOT of time to dry after cleaning.

I like a challenge...

PK

 

As I said before, I think the alcohol soak could really turn out badly, but it's done, so....

Have a good, working fire extinguisher, that you understand how to use, at hand before you power up the mobo/graphics card just in case.

Note studiot's post above -- the alcohol may have damaged some of the plastic insulation on the mobo or graphics card so some chips on the card or mobo may get fried.

I think the water is a better idea, but yes, be sure to give the mobo, graphics card or any other electronic component you try to clean with water, plenty of time to dry out. If possible, place them on a warm, but not hot, surface to insure they dry out thoroughly -- heat is not recommended for anything you've cleaned with alcohol though! -- only for items cleaned with water.

 

Well, I learned something today. Apparently Coke (if that's what this is) is NOT soluble in alcohol. But whatever this gunk is, it is VERY soluble in water.

A wet sponge swab with plain old distilled water wipes it right up. No scrubbing, no force. I guess I was hesitant to use water because i was afraid I could not get it completely dry. But so little water is required, and it is so controlled that it should not be a problem.

I should be able to put this thing together this weekend and test it out. Hopefully no damage was done in my cleaning attempts.

PK

 

I'm still a bit concerned about the possibility of some alcohol residue remaining, though I don't think it's likely. Still, I'd have a fire extinguisher at hand and recommend you step away from the computer as soon as you power it on, just in case of some remaining alcohol and/or electrical shorts that might start a small fire. In addition, make sure you can safely unplug the AC wall socket power cord quickly and safely (rubber gloves available?) if an electrical fire should start or else have someone stationed at the main circuit breaker/fuse box to cut power just in case.

I don't want you to be paranoid, but you know....Murphy's Law and "Better safe than sorry!" I don't think you're likely to start a fire, but I do think it's a possibility you should take into account before powering up any of the parts you've been cleaning. The consequences could be quite serious if you're not prepared to deal with a fire, if it should occur.

If you're determined to try out this equipment, I wish you good luck and let us know if you were successful! You certainly worked hard to try to salvage these computer parts and I hope you're rewarded with a properly performing system. But first and foremost, be prepared and be safe.

 

How long do you think it should run without flames before I can stop worrying about it?

PK

 

I have no idea and no way to even estimate. I've never heard of anyone cleaning computer parts in an alcohol bath nor am I a chemist who might know whether, for example, some of the plastics in the circuit boards could be chemically altered by the alcohol in such a way that the plastic itself remains more flammable even after the alcohol has completely evaporated.

I can't make estimates about something I have no experience or knowledge of (the chemical effects of alcohol on various electronic circuit board parts). That's one of the reasons I tried to discourage you from using an alcohol soak. And studiot said in his post that it was likely that the alcohol would damage the board's plastics at least and that to me indicates a chemical interaction and resulting change in the characteristics of the plastics' composition, which might mean the plastic itself would be more flammable.

I'm afraid you're on your own as I have no way to make any recommendation about what's safe in such a situation. In addition, I think you should not sell or even give away any of this equipment without fully informing the new owner about your use of alcohol to clean it up and the unknown possible changes in the chemistry of at least the plastic materials in the circuit boards. It could be (and I want to emphasize could) that while there may be no immediate bad effect or danger apparent in using this equipment, over time, continuing exposure of the chemically modified plastics to heat and electricity might pose a fire hazard. I don't know this to be the case for certain. But that's the point -- you've exposed a variety of materials used to manufacture both the motherboard and the graphics card, including a relatively large amount of plastic (which is often made from petroleum products), to a combustible and rather chemically active material, alcohol. I don't know what sort of safety risks, both immediate and long term, that may involve, if any.

 

Fear not, alcohols are 'miscible with water in all proportions'. They all contain water, even 'pure' alcohol contains some water. Common alcohols are more volatile than water. This means that they evaporate more quickly. So if the water has dried so has the alcohol. Any warmth generated by working components will be well below ignition point, it will just finish the drying.

My comment about the boards refers to the plastics and other materials used to encapsulate the components, not the boards themselves. Either the encapsulation material or the seal where the leads poke out are vulnerable to attack form liquids in general. (In the long run, even the oils suggested in the thread on oil cooling).

So soaking in anything is not a good idea.

Fizzy drink residues (sugars) are soluble in water.

 

Did you try using these parts once you finished cleaning them? Have you had any success or further problems or did you decide that it wasn't worth any further hassles?

 

Actually, everything is working great. I have installed Windows, run numerous stress tests on the memory, CPU, and video card (BurnInTest, Prime95, 3dMark 2001, Sandra, etc), installed a second hard drive, reinstalled Windows on one drive and Ubuntu/PCLinuxOS on the other.

I even dabbled in some old skool modding by spray painting the beige optical drive front panels flat black to match the case.

The only problems I have had are that the case is noisy and the front USB ports don't work (not sure if its a problem with the case or with the mobo).

I have decided that I will probably go ahead and hang on to the Radeon 9700 video card. To get another card thats worth a hoot (yet not quite so powerful) I would more than likely end up spending not much less than what I would get out of this card.

Thanks for inquiring.

PK

 

Wow, that's great! Thanks for letting us know how it worked out. We here at MG always like to hear a story that ends well.

I really has some serious misgivings about encouraging you after you used the alcohol, as you know. I'm very very glad to find my worries were not only misplaced, but that your cleanup was successful and the equipment is working fine.

Congratulations!