perpetual start up?

Ok fellas got a tricky one.

The system seems to be in a perpetual start up loop and I can't figure out why. Me and a buddy of mine are working on this together and have been failing fantastically at it. Details...

My friend said all he was doing last was sharing some files then shutdown his comp like he normally does. But when he pressed the power button the next time all he got after was the stupid proprietary hp screen w/a few key stroke options on the bottom of the screen. And then the never ending restart begins.

Any suggestions, guys? tia!

-J

 

Hopefully there are some "Press [key]" prompts at the bottom of the HP screen. If so, then press the key that says it will get you into the BIOS.

If there are no key prompts, then try some default BIOS entry keys such as DEL, ESC, F1, F2, F10 etc.

Post back if you can get into the BIOS.

 

No BIOS, talked to my buddy about 20 minutes ago and still had same story; tried restarting it to see if it would go through but got that screen you described w/options at bottom.

I initially told him the same thing you told me about getting into BIOS so he could get to boot sequence and repair windows via recovery cd but he said system just kept hanging itself. Then he told me the keyboard wasn't working which immediately made me believe it might be as simple as changing out keyboards but the problem is he didn't have any extra on him since he was called to repair on the fly.

So, I think it might be a smaller issue than what seems to be going on but I'm not certain about it, you know? Still researching for another 5-10 then going off to bed. Let me know if you got anything. Thanks collins,

-J

 

Ok guys, this problem remains persistent and has brushed off every BIOS entry attempted.

The only thing that's changed is now I have custody of the culprit and it's still doing same things described above. Here's a quick recap of some of my experiences w/this hp system:

-tried starting system w/hdd only (to see if i could access BIOS w/out system attempting to boot from cd)

-tried starting system w/cd drive only (to see if drive was working properly, could read disc, etc. so i could attempt to boot from cd)

-tried starting system w/hdd+cd drive (to finally make the attempt to boot from drive)

-checked vid card & other hardware and attempted same strategy on vid card vs. on-board chipset (this time I found the chipset to be disabled as my attempt to power on system lead me no where vs. getting to proprietary startup hp screen w/options@bottom of screen thanks to the vid card installed)

I've just about attempted everything I could think of, and piggy-backing hdd on my system isn't an option considering I don't have the same power connector on my ps to the hdd (old system but still keeps up w/the best of them ).

So going back to my original prescription of plugging in another keyboard/mouse...yeah, didn't work :confused Tried every usb port, every combination of setups between keyboard/mouse connections, and even tried switching out ps from hp to use on my mobo which lead me to discover hp's 24-pin connector won't fit my intel mobo 20-pin slot :mad

Moving on, I came to the conclusion that I just need to reinstall oem BIOS on this hp and we'll be good to go however, this is where I meet my dilemma. Is it really necessary to do that when I'm already accessing first part of start up? How will I be able to install considering I can't get in through front or backdoor, will I just need to bite the bullet and buy a converter/connector for the power connector issue? Am I even playing this one right by trying to reinstall BIOS? Any help's appreciated, thx

-J

 

What kind of keyboard is he using? I have heard of, but not seen firsthand, issues with certain types of aftermarket keyboards and/or mice being infected with malware.

 

Keyboard/mouse combo in use is Memorex kb MX3300 and a Logitech optical mouse MBT96A. They're about 2-3 yrs old and I've always used them so I don't think it's necessarily the hardware carrying the malware. I do use them a lot and on different systems but I still don't see how it could have caught any sort of malware. I could be wrong, though so let me know soon as you can find out anything.

 

Nope, doubtful that hardware would do so. Just to be clear, you don't get any screen with a Windows logo on it, correct?
A:

You cannot access the BIOS Setup menu?
A:

If the BIOS does load, before the computer restarts, do you see the cursor on the top left of screen when the MBR (Master Boot Record) is normally being read?
A:

"How will I be able to install considering I can't get in through front or backdoor, will I just need to bite the bullet and buy a converter/connector for the power connector issue?"

A: The BIOS disc you make will flash the mobo from startup, thereby replacing the previous version. Don't worry about the power supply just yet.

 

Mekanic,

-No windows splash at all
-Tried different keyboards but to no avail considering both produced same result
-Not too sure about BIOS finishing loading so it could pass control over when it's done but I know it starts considering I attempted to piggy back my hdd onto that mobo but got an error that mentioned something about a missing or corrupt ntoskrnl.exe. However, w/original hdd yes it gets to the first start up screen w/blinking cursor on top, left-hand side; if I remember correctly it starts w/black screen then vid card specs show on top left-hand side after a few seconds, then screen blacks out for another few seconds then proprietary blue background w/hp splash appears w/start up options on bottom (esc - boot menu, f10 - BIOS, f11 - system recovery), then after another long hang time it'll restart (unless cd drive is occupied then it just hangs itself indefinitely).

Now, you mention a boot disc that'll enable me to flash BIOS - to hell and - back to its oem state but my question to you is how will I be able to get system to start from cd drive if I can't get into BIOS to give cd drive higher priority so it doesn't attempt to load from an unresponsive hdd (and thus begin the loop from hell)? Unless there's another way to get hdd to release control over boot process midway after it's already tried to boot from it itself...which I don't know of :confused

So here I am once again w/more questions that derive from old ones. Did mobo/pc makers get smart (and I just didn't hear about it) to make default option to boot from cd drive or just leave it to the commonly set hdd - 0, cd drive - 1, usb - 2, etc? I still don't see how the disc will be read if hdd has control since it's almost always set up that way by default and I don't think client is interested enough to learn about it let alone make the change themself, you know? Client showed some knowledge but nothing more than a good beginner so I don't think they would have gone far enough to mess w/BIOS.

At any rate, had some other questions but my main point is: How can I do it, how do I make that BIOS disc? How do I take the legs out from under this b~tch-of-a-BIOS? thx

 

So, F10 doesn't work, BUT if the only drive you have connected is the CD drive, it may have no choice but to recognize it as the primary drive, regardless of the boot priority. Savvy?

 

i think you are barking up the wrong tree, I don't think the bios is the culprit, more likely it's the motherboard acting up, I would bet eventually, you are gonna start having problems with the computer even powering up....one other option is to test the ram in another computer to rule that out. but i think the mobo is shot.

 

mekanic:
savvy! started looking for oem BIOS driver on www.driverguide.com and couldn't find it so I went to hp and found it there. I wanted to setup a usb key as a bootable drive w/Awdflash, drdosmin (legacy revival app - brings back an old friend by the letter a), and the BIOS binary and try flashing that way.

Should that fail I'll try the same process (w/and w/out the drdosmin) w/cd and see where that takes me. Of course I'll be attempting the boot from cd drive and will physically modify boot order, and then hope for the best.

smokingun:
I was afraid these signs would cause me a shot mobo but in my experience w/shot mobos they don't really show any signs; it just happens and the user almost always remembers something being installed or modified to some degree before the crash.

At any rate, I do have an app that'll test the RAM however I don't remember the specs on the RAM and if I even have a mobo lying around somewhere. Thx for the reminder, though!

Gotta run around some more now, I'll reply later tonight when I get the chance to troubleshoot some more, thx guys!

 

Hold the phone. Silly question. Do you have access to the BIOS Setup? Or by physically, you mean disconnect the HDD?

Quote:
"Of course I'll be attempting the boot from cd drive and will physically modify boot order, and then hope for the best."

 

No access to BIOS setup just yet but it only makes sense that BIOS starts and doesn't finish b/c I see the monitor turn on and you can hear the hdd spin up and fans too. Yet it never gets to win splash screen...wait a minute. brb

 

mekanic, earlier you mentioned something about MBR being read; yes, system does get to the part where MBR is being read but then just restarts. Unless there's media in cd drive it'll keep looping to the same part and just restart; if there is it'll just hang and not restart anymore - even after I take out the cd.

Now, here's the thought that ran through my head earlier when I said brb: If BIOS doesn't release control over to next part of process then it may not completely be a BIOS issue; what if win went corrupt due to user-end issue? Possible that BIOS is not culprit completely but only has a part in it (obviously since it's already starting - yet why can't we access BIOS menus?) and it's win that's not ok.

Well, since BIOS basically works, as its primary function is to provide system w/a basic in/output system containing anything that's plugged into system, I'd say its doing its job considering only monitor and keyboard/mouse are plugged in (not to take anything away from other in/output peripherals like hdd, cd drive, usb-based, etc but previously mentioned are ones in question so others are not considered). So that just kinda threw me in a loop that lead me to dig up some old modules and study material to do some research on boot order on the software side. I didn't find them so I went w/next best thing - internet.

I really don't wanna flash if I can avoid it so I'm still doing the research to find a more accurate answer. My previous plan of flashing w/different hardware setups is a good start but what if ripple effect causes hdd failure? What if it were the hdd all this time, you know? I just don't wanna flash then end up w/a working BIOS and working mobo that can't communicate between each other. Not too sure it'll play out like that but it's always a possibility.

So, do you think it just might be the hdd since MBR is being read? It would make sense that BIOS is in working order yet hdd failed and therefore corrupted something the MBR can't recover from. Idk, just thinking out loud.

Gonna try a few more setups and post results after. Let me know what you think, you were on to something about MBR. thx

 

The same sort of thing happened to my old computer (although instead of endless reboots, it just froze). Turns out a power surge fried the RAM.

 

By the way, I did mean I would setup cd as primary and hdd as slave since they've both got the same connections for power/data. However I was just going to disconnect hdd and cd drive and use the usb to flash BIOS, or disconnect hdd and try to flash BIOS from cd drive.

 

So, do you have access to Setup (F2)? I never actually got a yes or no.

The hard drive and the CD-ROM aren't on the same ribbon cable, are they?

 

mekanic
No dice on accessing setup since keyboard hasn't been working, and no ribbon cables here - system is sata based.

Idk what's going on that the keyboards I've tried aren't working but they work on any other system just fine. Which makes me think it's the BIOS that's the culprit in that situation. However, could it be a different hardware-related issue other than the mobo, do you think hdd's going bad? I figure the MBR might have been corrupted thx to a virus but I can't even get the OS to load let alone get into safe mode.

At any rate, I still don't wanna flash the BIOS yet b/c I have no idea how vista's gonna react and I think I can still save it. See I know it's doing its job since I disconnected power cable to hdd and I got the usual "DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER" - it makes sense that BIOS is passing control over to MBR but since there's no boot record there the system reports an error - but even when I did press enter nothing happened. That's why I think it may just be the hdd; why would the BIOS pick up on the missing hdd but not the keyboard, you know? Obviously it's picking up on something if it's outputting the blinking cursor and reaching the disk boot failure error. Unless there's a more definitive way to make sure it really is the BIOS?

So I know this next one may sound silly but could it just be the keyboards I've used aren't compatible w/this machine since they're both USB keyboards as opposed to PS2? Despite connection type, I ruled that one out a long time ago considering even the signal to the original keyboard wasn't working when user tried to fix it themself.

My money's on the hdd until I can find a more telling sign that it's anything else. I'm still trying so any help will do, thx

 

Ok quick update...

BIOS works.
Keyboard/mouse work.
Boot order is HDD-CD-?
Mobo is in working order as everything functions correctly and I can't find anything that may be the cause - all I know is bootstrapping is commencing but not completing.
RAM should be fine as major clue of any memory corruption is when boot process ceases w/no reboot (as Aimee mentioned earlier).
I figured all this out when I tried to reinstall w/XP. Got to a very welcoming message "Press any key to boot from cd....." but again, no dice since keyboard didn't work at that point either.

I guess smokingun was on to something about mobo being shot (or at least getting there) but I wanna say it's a virus that corrupted OS at boot level and is now disregarding/redirecting keyboard signal from keyboard to mobo. However, Idk of any coders that could reach that level of coding to code in a loop that'll do such a clever thing, and in assembly at that.

Anyway, just thinking out loud, let me know what you think. thx

 

Have you tried a PS2 keyboard?

 

Tried usb keyboard setup w/PS2 adapter attached and got nothing which made me think either some of the ports are going out or my keyboard just doesn't work on this system. But the odd thing is BIOS recognizes it; there are four LEDs on left-hand side of keyboard that all light up soon as system is powered on. Mouse is optical and powered via usb, and the red light under it is on when system is powered on too...

You know I was listening to the hdd last night and tried to hear for read/write head errors but there were no major clicks and no obvious misbehavior. I did however get to time the whole process - just under a minute before restart - and as I listened there was more activity going on as boot process reached the end of the loop. Any opinions?

I also discovered boot order is CDD-HDD-? vs. hdd-cdd-? as I tried the best app for the job last night, and still got no where. See, when I tried booting w/XP the "Press any key to boot from cd....." msg appeared near the end. However, when I tried loading up the other app the cdd read it immediately and just shy of 7 seconds into the usual 58 second loop. Opinions?

Anyway, just thinking out loud. Let me know what you think, thx

 

Tried usb keyboard w/ps2 adapter attached but still no dice on any functionality w/this system...got other thoughts but gotta run.

 

Need to find a mobo diagnostic that can test all the buses and ports for proper operation.

 

Good idea, I guess it's about time I start picking on the mobo some more. My only problem is the keyboards I've connected to it (wired usb/ps2 connector & wireless usb w/ps2 connector) still aren't getting through. So there won't be any way for me to operate the test run even if I can run it before loop begins, you know? Haven't done the research for it b/c I don't think it's likely to exist for a peculiar problem like this one.

 

Did a little research before I'm out and about again and found bootzilla and rescuecd off the diagnostics tab on the homepage. Not too sure they'll test the way I want them to but I'll give them a try. If you can find any diagnostic app that can be run w/out input from keyboard let me know before I make any important moves. thx

 

Ok so I just bit the bullet and sacrificed one of my smaller hdd (40G) to install vista on it and see if it'll boot up properly on this hp mobo. The only difference is it's running off IDE instead of SATA like the oem hdd. Yet I still run into the problem of no communication between keyboard/mobo :banghead

So my next move is to continue as planned 3 days ago and flash BIOS to see if that'll correct the miscommunication issue; afterall, current version is@5.07 and this system's got 5.04 on it. But that's where I run yet again into the issue of communicating w/any app I throw at this system. I can't find any purely standalone apps that'll just flash the BIOS from cdd. My boot from USB key attempt failed, my boot from cdd w/awdflash, drdosmin, and BIOS update failed too...I feel I'm running outta options.

mekanic, you said something about a BIOS cd I will make will take care of this issue but the questions I have for you are how do I setup the cd to autorun straight from boot? Can BIOS cd take care of it w/out having to use keyboard in any part of the process?

Here's my strategy:
-Use 40G hdd to access oem hdd (to see if I can just swap out ntoskrnl w/new one, which I probably can't b/c of this :*** bull :crap OS)
-Format oem hdd (if I can't swap out ntoskrnl)
-Update BIOS (so keyboard can work ::fingers crossed:: and mobo needs it anyway)
-Reinstall vista using recovery cds given to me (and if that doesn't work well...I'll figure it out)
-And if all else fails...gonna have to bite the damn barrel and buy a new PS so I can just PnP into my system and access it from my hdd and get the job done like that. However, Idk of any 500W PS that'll have that specific power conntector? I guess it doesn't help that I haven't done any research on that power connector but I'm sure newer PSs come w/that type of connection, and I'd rather just buy the newer PS instead of just the connector since I plan on upgrading by the end of the yr.

Anyway, gotta run. Let me know what you think, thx!

 

It depends on the BIOS programming, but often they automatically run at boot from the disc without user input. What is your mobo?

The only time a response is usually required by the user is running a BIOS update inside a Windows platform to be installed at restart.

To have it run from the CD, have the drive you are using be the only drive attached to the mobo at startup. Therefore, that will be recognized as the default drive.

Something well may be corrupted in the BIOS, and try a Repair on your Windows installation before going for a full blown install.

Considering files were being "shared", all bets are off here. This may be someone's idea of a joke disabling input devices in BIOS.

 

Well, I come w/more of the same news except this time I'm almost certain it's a combination of corrupt BIOS and bad (or going bad) hdd. Here's the scoop:

Tried booting w/2 different cds both of which contained the new BIOS update.
Tried just cdd connected - CD w/awdflash, drdosmin, and update got me to start the interface but wasn't able to flash/update BIOS since input was required. Customized CD w/modified autoexec.bat to flash BIOS was getting somewhere as the first few prompts were timed for defaults in program but then got to a screen that required input. I feel it's BIOS that's causing all this since it obviously powers on the keyboard but is unable to communicate (despite connector types).

At this point, I wasn't getting anywhere w/these cds so I decided to clear CMOS to see if that would get me anywhere and it kinda did. I got to the usual black screen w/Energy Star logo at top right hand side and read somewhere on screen about BIOS status being shadowed. I think hdd was also set as shadow and there were some other things too but I didn't read them before screen changed.

So after reconnecting hdd and after clearing CMOS I plug my IDE hdd in and got the same disk boot error msg instead of the loop. I moved on and tried w/oem hdd and got back to where we started.

I'm beginning to think this is just a waste for both me and my buddy. Mobo is A8M2N-LA in an hp a1730n desktop and I feel I can still save this one but I'm gonna need to do some intense troubleshooting when I wake up after this insomnia nap b/c I told my buddy it would take me a week to get done. Sat marks the week. thx

 

I just canned my Naos board because HP had no updated BIOS for it, couldn't even get the original on the site for my SR2010NX Compaq. Only it's sister board, the Nodus got updated BIOS versions. You can use the Nodus BIOS versions on the Naos board, but you will lose integrated graphics. How many memory slots are on this board?

Is it full ATX, or Micro?

This is what I replaced it (my AM82N-LA Naos) with:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4471412&CatId=3504

To say the least, I am much happier with this mobo!!

Same processor, same memory, very similar overclocking, but a complete performance difference...

 

I think I wanna try that Nodus update on this board since there's a GeForce 7300 GT card in there already. However, let me tell you a quick story about the HP "help" I experienced.

So I call HP and see if they can offer a quick fix considering I'm already setup w/them w/my warranty on my own system. No dice; "Lexi" w/very heavy accent not from US started offering me a $99 1 yr phone support plan then a $59 one time support plan. When I tried to explain to her that no matter what I try, no matter how many times I've tried to boot from cd w/updated BIOS, no matter how many different routes I've taken to just update the BIOS THE KEYBOARD WON'T WORK...then she kinda chuckled and said something like "Well, they're level 2 technicians that guarantee their work, and if you're not satisfied then we'll refund your money." I then proceeded to chuckle myself and hung up about 10 seconds later.

Do these frontline "techs" not know an experienced user when they hear one? I mean, seriously, I summed up the whole situation for her in a matter of about 30 seconds, then she kept me on the phone for another 12 or so minutes telling me warranty has been void for 419 days and trying to sell me a new one!

At any rate, board is micro ATX and actually a Nodus M3-GL8E (which I didn't know b/c I didn't bother to look at the specs till now) and has 4 DDR2 DIMM sockets available - 2 of which are being occupied. I never thought to move the RAM around to see if that'll help but something tells me that won't be necessary (afterall, if it ain't broke don't fix it, right?)

I'm beginning to think this mobo has reached its tipping point and locked me out. Didn't think it could be possible but that's what it feels like. Think I'll just tell my buddy to bite the bullet and trash a seemingly fine and in-working-condition mobo b/c this just sucks. But before I do that I wanted to run down to the local tech shop to find me another SATA 150 hdd and try to set that one up on this system. I don't know if that's going to do any good at this point but if that doesn't work, then hey at least I got another hdd to play around with. Or maybe it'll some how put the BIOS in its place and work and we'll all be on our merry way (let a boy dream for a sec...ahh yes, that would be nice if it worked like that, wouldn't it?)

Anyway, let me know what you think, mekanic, thx

 

It's not in front of me, and I don't want to say outright to condemn the board, but it is and OEM piece of equipment, with a given lifespan. Compaq was the original supplier, and HP has not done admirably with hardware support. Probably because it wasn't their's to begin with. He would more than likely be better off with a higher quality aftermarket piece of hardware.

 

Sorry if this is obvious, but have you checked for bent pins on the PS/2 keyboard/adapter?

 

Yeah, that was one of the first things I checked for.

I've already spoken to my buddy about this situation and I'm going to order the new mobo sometime tomorrow. I wanted to try the hdd thing but considering the holiday weekend I didn't have time so I'm not even going to bother with it. If it doesn't work on new mobo then it's too bad and my buddy understands that. I feel I've tried everything I could before reaching this point; I never like to jump to conclusions about stuff like this since most of the time it doesn't need to get to that point if it's something that can be repaired, you know?

Anyway, I'll post results, thx for your input aimee, collins, mekanic