Trying to network our computers

Specs for my computer are below, can't remember exactly what 379's specs are but he also has a 1.6 gig P4 on a Via board and Win98 SE.

I just put Linksys 10 Mb network cards in both computers, ran a phone line cable between his and mine like the directions said. We used their discs to install the cards on both machines.

Then I ran the program to set up a Network on my machine and copied the necessary files to a disc as directed. Then we installed that on his computer.

His computer says 'Server Not Found'. Mine says that the network card is 'unplugged'.

Am I forgetting to do something? Is there something I am supposed to know and don't? Do I need to go into my BIOS and enable something? I haven't checked that yet.



OK, I went into BIOS and disabled the Onchip LAN. As far as I can tell, the only thing accomplished was the removal of one icon with a red X from my system tray.

 

are you connecting these through a hub, switch, or directly to each other?

 

RJ-45 cable? I'm just trying to get a picture... how far apart are the computers? 5-10 feet? Evidently close enough to run a cable to cable connection. I don't know much about linksys, but you usually connect the computers together using category 5 cable and not RJ-45. The connectors look the same on the ends, but they're different.

 

I believe RJ-45s' and Cat5s' can be used interchangibly, I believe...

 

The directions showed to daisy chain the computers direct to each other.

Both computers are in my living room, maybe 10 feet apart but the line is a 25 foot line around the wall.

The lines that came with the cards look just like regular phone lines with the same little modular jacks on each end.

Not really sure what you mean by 'RJ-45 cable'. Know of anyplace I can see a picture? Does it have the same kind of plugs that my speaker cable has?

 

Google Images.

 

Ok. I noticed you said you used the discs to install the drivers for the NIC cards... did you make sure they were enabled? Did you check the hardware manager and set up everything correctly? And I see the specs for one of the computers in your signature, but what's the other one? Is it also running XP Pro?

 

mine is runnin win98se 4 compatibility issues one or 5 of my games aint compatiblce with xp

 

There's a couple things that might be going on here. First, you say "phone line". That isn't exactly descriptive enough.

CAT-5 Ethernet cable (which is what you should be using) has ends of a form known as RJ-45. It has eight wires in it, and it looks like this:


Standard telephone cable has only four wires. The connectors there are called RJ-11, and look like this:


Now, CAT-5 cable is fairly universal. It is very high quality, so the cable has been known to be used for speaker wire (especially in cars) and for telephones (complete with RJ-45 connectors). To further comlicate matters, it is theoretically possible to use RJ-11 connectors for Ethernet, but no company would do that (it would be senselessly non-standard). But that's neither here nor there. You need to be using the CAT-5, RJ-45-style cable to connect Ethernet cards.

However, you now have another problem. You see, normal Ethernet cables (commonly called patch cables) are straight through. You need to connect them to a concentrator (hub, switch, home router) or a wall jack for them to work. You can't connect a patch cable to another network card directly. You need what is called a cross-over cable.

Why? Well, it has to do with the order of the pins. If you look at the ends of the cables, you'll see 8 colored wires. Those wires are actually 4 pairs of wires. Here's the two standard pin-outs for Ethernet cable:


Notice that the only difference between the two pin-outs is that pairs 2 and 3 swap places.

In a normal cable, both ends are the same. The standard says both should be T568B (above on the right) but it doesn't really matter so long as they're the same on both ends. In a crossover cable, one end should be T568A and the other should be T568B. The reason is quite simple. On an ethernet card, Pins 1 and 2 are RECEIVE, and pins 3 and 6 are SEND. [Pins 4, 5, 7, and 8 are unused.] Now, concentrators internally switch pairs 2 and 3, but network cards do not. That means that if your cable is a straight-through patch cable, you're connecting SEND to SEND and RECEIVE to RECEIVE! Think of it like picking up the telephone backwords. You're talking into the ear part and listening to the mouth part.

There are cable testers that can tell you if a cable is cross-over or straight, but there's an easier method: look at the colors of the wires in the RJ-45 ends! If they have the exact same pattern (the exact same... not mirrored!) on both ends, you need to get a cross-over cable. Don't worry; they sell them at Radio Shack. Just ask for a "cross-over Ethernet cable". If the patterns are different (those pairs are swapped) then you've got the right cable... which means that something else is wrong.

 

DoH! Sorry, RJ-11 not RJ-45 in the above post, but 11s' and 45s' can be used interchangibly right?

 

Good catch on the crossover cable... forgot about that. That's the only way you can connect host-to-host, switch-to-switch, or router-to-router. Good job, chicken.

 

Not at all. The connectors usually don't fit in the other's jack. RJ-45 is too wide for an RJ-11 connector, and RJ-11 will get caught up on the pin separators. If you force it, you can get an RJ-11 into an RJ-45 socket, but it won't work and you're lible to break something.

 

Thanks!

Although, if you're connecting switch-to-switch, most concentrators have a toggle on Port 1 or Port 8 (or whatever is highest) that swaps the necessary pairs enabling you to use a patch cable to connect to two concentrators. Usually called an "uplink" port.

Routers... vary because they go from very simple ($40) to very complex ($2000).

But all that's kind of moot.

I've always wanted to make a crossover converter cable. Take 3 feet of CAT-5, put an RJ-45 on one end and a wall jack on the other (not in a wall of course). That way you could make any patch cable a crossover cable. The cable would have to be 3 feet, though, because that's the minimum length for Ethernet cable (by design, although 1 foot cables do work).

 

ITT had us make those in Telecommunications class ... or some other class... I can't remember. Friend of mine in that class is color blind... hahahahaha. He had fun trying to make 'em. BTW, chicken, you must have been to some tech school. Where'd ya go? Maybe I'll go there if I ever get my first student loans paid off

 

3ft cables...

Great post, Da Chicken, but to clarify - the 3 foot limit is from node-to-node, so patch cables typically don't count because they usually connect to a patch panel, which is just a pass-thru for a cable drop. You could make a 'crossover converter' 2 inches if you want, as long as the length between nodes (pc, hub, router, switch, etc.) is at least 3 ft. Great idea on the converter too, I might make a couple to carry with me

 

What I thought, Never was able to get that RJ-45 in the phone I'm losing it

T-Rex: ROFL! Color blind friends are always good to exploit ;P

On a side ntoe RJ-11s' are so often wasted, so many phones just use B and C (Red and Green) instead of A,B,C, and D (black, red, green, yellow (Left to right)), kind of a waste really..

 

Well, I went to Baker College in Michigan, but 95% of what I learned came from six of my roomates (all tech geeks like me) and my internship with a local tech service and support place. I'm now going to Central Michigan for CS and IT.

I wouldn't recommend Baker, I'm afraid. One of my teachers was notorious for having 5 minute classes (no leanring there) and she eventually got fired when she was arrested (eventually convicted) for computer fraud.

ITT is a good school, from what I've heard. My cousin went there and is currently a network admin at a hospital.

King: fair enough. Hadn't thought about it that way.

Vlad: AFAIK, the second pair of wires are most often used for second phone lines. But again, I'm no telco wiz, so I don't really know.

 

Cool, what do you plan to do, consulting I'm guessing?

 

Whatever pays. But yeah, consulting is fun. I like it.

 

Someone once offered to pay me 100 bucks to make an e-commerce site for them with the design, DataBases, security, etc. *laughs* I haven't gotten into the more then free side of consulting :/

 

I'd do it for $100... an hour.

 

Haha, that's exactly what I told him

 

Now now... I know I started this... but I guess we'd better keep on the subject since this is the support forum... We should start a thread about this though... I have plenty of stories to tell about ITT. Makes you wonder, huh?

 

OK. I'm back. I see lots of fun has been going right over my head while I slept. I see 379 posted here too.

First, Linksys techs told me to go directly from one card to the other in a daisy chain. They didn't mention anything about a crossover cable tho.

I have pulled a cable out of the box that came with one of the cards. Let me see if these stupid bifocals can tell how many wires in the end and if they mirror each other or are the same.


dum de dum.... hmph....

hmmmm...if I hold both ends so the little clip is on the same side, I see red and green in one of them and green and red in the other. So therefore, if I understand what was previously written, the cable in the box is a crossover cable. I really only see two wires tho.

Now to check the cable I actually used to plug one computer to the other...... BRB...... uhhh I probably should shut the computers off to unplug the cables? hmmm maybe I won't be right back. That might take a few minutes.

Bet they don't cross over tho because it is just a standard 25 ft phone cord I bought at Walmart (most likely).

Guess while I'm on vacation next week I will have to hit Radio Shack for a long RJ45 crossover cable.




DARN!!!!!!!!!! I'm logged in under his ID. ~~~~~ Oh well, I can still get the info across.

The installation manual that came with the card lists in the package contents, one Standard Modular Telephone Cable. That is because you are supposed to be able to link all the computers through the house phone wiring. However, I only have one jack available with both computers in the same room.

Lets see if I can find somewhere in the manual where it talks about daisy chaining....oooohhh here's where it says 'installing the RJ-11 cabling'..... well, the book doesn't show daisy chaining in it.

Here's what support@Linsys.com sent me:

Dear Valued linksys Customer,Please look at the link below on how the HPN200 is set up in a network:

http://www.linksys.com/products/display.asp?conmap=023pcm100h1CMdiagram.jpg&prid=130&scid=33

You don't connect the HPN200 to your modem. What you can do is connect the HPN200 to the other computer with the HPN200 (daisy-chaining to 2nd computer without the need for a phone jack) so that the 2 computers could communicate.

The modem would then be connected to the phone jack.

Thanks and have a nice day.

 

Huh. Completely not what I thought it was. You've got a phone line network. Like I said, it is possible, but I really didn't think they would try to sell it anymore. Hm. I'll take another look at it tonight.

I am amused they call 10 Mbit "blazing speed" though. Heh. 10 Mbit speed is 10 years old.

 

I used to use a 10 mb NIC I got fast as hell speeds, usually 200-300 kbs' download on good days, this isn't a 3COM either I switched 3 days ago to 100 mb NIC and I'm getting around 2kb per second page loads, made by the same company latest drivers

 

Well, since my interenet connect speed is only 9.6kbps, 10 mb is right up that same alleyway.

Got to start someplace with networking these two together and so far I can't even get this simple one to work, so no sense in going for something more expensive at the moment. sigh... I do wish I could figure it out tho.

 

Well... Like da chicken said... sounds kind of ancient to be running a telephone wire network... but I don't know. It seems to me the data transfer would be slow, but then again, you're only connecting two computers together, so maybe it will be sufficient for your needs. I just would typically use Cat 5, regardless of what they shipped with the cards. Any ethernet NIC card will run over Cat 5, and surely it'd be faster than phone wire. Of course, that's just my suggestion, and it's all in your hands, so do what you wish.