Gun Safety

[hrlow2]

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squirrel_with_machine_gun_weapons-s450x330-43676-580.jpg

Even the animals here know how to shoot.

[gloozit]

Pulling a trigger takes no intelligence. 'nuff said

[BILLMCC66]

This argument seems to revolve around whether guns are dangerous and i think to be fair no one has disputed that fact.
Remember "guns don't kill people,people kill people".
I served in the military for a large part of my life and guns came as second nature to me but that did not make me complacent about the danger involved with handling weapons.

A short story.
I was a member of the Royal Marines shooting team for a few years and every year we would go to the NRA championships where all the branches of the military were represented in the Queens medal challenge.

http://www.rnrmra.org/Queens_Medal.htm

During the run up to the championship we would use our own ranges,we were on this particular day sharing the range with Navy personnel one of which was a four ring Captain who had an AD now in the military that is a chargeable offense but because the range warden was only a Sergeant he was not senior enough to charge this officer because you need to be the same rank or higher so he had to charge himself.
This is just to illustrate that accidents DO happen and the rule "Safety first" must always be adhered to.
I could spend hours here telling horror stories of recruits turning up range to tell the NCO that his automatic weapon has jammed or droppin live grenades in the throwing pit.
Again no one is perfect and accidents do happen.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Fred_G

How is it dangerous to carry a gun?
Guns are no more dangerous than any other tool.

Bill, Fred is saying that.
My .22 squirrel gun is certainly more dangerous than anything in my tool box. Yes, I can put a hole in your head with my hammer, but I can't do that. if I accidentally drop it it. But I can kill someone a mile away with an accidental misfire.
But I suppose if I were to stand in the rain, while using my Skilsaw, it could be considered as dangerous as a gun.
The number one rule is use common sense. And common sense, tells me, if I don't consider a gun dangerous, I will start to become lax on the rules.

Fred, you of all people, should be saying, Guns are a dangerous tool, but with the proper cautions, they can be used safely. That still doesn't make them less dangerous.

Why have safety rules, if they aren't dangerous???

My reason for sticking to that point is this: New gun owners could see this thread and consider their new tool, less than dangerous. Do we want that?
I don't want some fool, out in the woods thinking he is Roy Rogers. That's why I don't deer hunt anymore.
Most those people have been through Hunter safety classes and are more dangerous than a SEAL on steroids and gunpowder.

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Are you guys really wanting to talk about gun safety? Or just wanting to say," Guns are cool, get one, take a half hour class and you are good to go?"

No one is saying that. The fact that you persist in assuming the worst and then accuse the people in this thread of it is the main reason for the attitude towards you, that you are complaining so much about. Treat people with courtesy, and you get courtesy back. Lecture arrogantly and condescendingly, and no one will consider you worth listening to.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

The fact that you persist in assuming the worst and then accuse the people in this thread of it Treat people with courtesy, Lecture arrogantly and condescendingly, and no one will consider you worth listening to.

Where was I discourteous? Where did I accuse someone of the worse? I'vve even been decent to the troll.
And not lecturing arrogantly in a thread, you are putting no real input into, other than to troll, is good advice.
And I don't give a rat's behind if someone wants to consider a gun as safe as a screwdriver, it's their skin, but to post that in a thread about gun safety is like saying a horse is just as dangerous as a car. Yes, both can kill you, but if you act accordingly, chances are it ain't gonna happen.

Hey, let's start putting misleading info in every forum, including hardware. That seems to be Ok here. (@ the mods That's sarcasm)

[BILLMCC66]

I'vve even been decent to the troll.
And not lecturing arrogantly in a thread, you are putting no real input into, other than to troll, is good advice

Um, you are obviously smart, with your command of grammar and you have a fit vocabulary.
So, you can't be so dense to have misunderstood what I wrote. Trolled, I am?
That fits in well with gun safety.
All I see here are people who say they believe in gun safety and practice it, but yet when someone says guns are dangerous and to be vigilante in their safety practices, they feel threatened.
I never said anyone here was unsafe (except for hrlow and that was a jab after he poked).
You all have made gun safety a joke and you just proved it with your trolling.
Or must I add the quotes so that you know this is directed @ mimsy

That is the sort of language that sounds to be discourteous and is totally unnecessary.
If you put your points succinctly and in a reasonable manner they will be treated with respect and answered the same way.
Several views have been put forward and they are firmly held beliefs of the person posting (yours included) so we are in a democracy here at MGs where everybody is entitled to be heard and treated with the respect that we would wish to receive.

One thing i can promise if this thread continues in the same manner it will be closed and that is a loss to those who are really interested in it.

[Fred_G]

Asus, the barrel falling off the gun was funny!

[Fred_G]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Exactly, what I have been saying
Even Fred is being stubborn, "How is it dangerous to carry a gun?"
Does that really need a answer?
Are you guys really wanting to talk about gun safety? Or just wanting to say," Guns are cool, get one, take a half hour class and you are good to go?"
If any one of you has the attitude that guns are not dangerous, why do you follow the safety rules? Or do you? Is that why you are mad?
This is still ridiculous.
You guys are mad because someone said they are dangerous and make sure to follow the rules.

BTW the title of this thread, says gun safety, implying that they can be unsafe (DANGEROUS). Or do I need to go back to school?
Grow up and retake a gun safety class and pay attention this time around.
Have fun and I'll be waiting to read about a geek and an accidental shooting.

Guns can be dangerous if used improperly. "Take a class", "retake a class"... It is not dangerous to carry a gun. Perhaps you cannot grasp simple skills and demonstrate some motor skills to safely manipulate and operate a rather simple tool.

Some of us can.

[hrlow2]

I believe everyone will concur that this is NOT safe.

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[Serious Sam]

Pizza Roulette

http://www.guns.com/pizza-roulette-p...okia-7080.html

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Fred_G

Guns can be dangerous if used improperly. "Take a class", "retake a class"... It is not dangerous to carry a gun. Perhaps you cannot grasp simple skills and demonstrate some motor skills to safely manipulate and operate a rather simple tool.

Some of us can.

Ah yes, no real answers just retorts.
Yes, I am a drooling moron, who can not grasp a simple idea, like, "Accidents happen." "Distractions happen" and "Murphy's Law". What about you?
There are safety rules for a reason. Because they are needed.
Let's see, how could carrying a gun be dangerous.
Let's start with, some jerk pulls a gun on you and tries to rob you. What do you do? Shoot him? With him drawn down on you, How are you going to get your gun? And when you try to pull it out and he pulls his trigger, what then? A carried gun can protect, IF you are given time to react, and in many of those cases, IF you have time to react, you have time to get the hell out of there.
Same thing with a car jacking, will you be able to pull that gun, without getting your head blown off? Or shooting yourself, in the hurry?
Soldiers are trained to react in those situations and they "practice" it. Constantly. And they still make mistakes.

How about those loaded guns, not in a safe or without trigger locks? What happens if some neighborhood kid decides to break in while you are out? It happens.
What about if one of your friends decides to look at one of your loaded guns while you are out of the room? It happens. You can't control another's actions. Even if you scolded them good.
See? what you consider safe, is unsafe (dangerous) under the real gun safety rules. And before someone says, "gloozit has a loaded gun, in a drawer.", ask me if it has a trigger lock. It does.
Maybe retaking a gun course could help. All it takes is one mistake, to turn your safe guns into dangerous ones. Are you so good, you never make mistakes? Because if you are, you need to get those genes cloned.

And Bill, thanks, I hear ya.
Just hard not to speak that way, when one person first turned the word "practice" around to try and make me look silly, then Mimsy, who admittedly, has never held a gun, stated, "innocently" , that she was sure no one was ever killed with an unloaded gun. She was trolling.
Her next statement showed it.
BTW hrlow did state, "Always assume there is a round in the chamber," ie, no gun is ever unloaded. even unloaded ones. I'm pretty sure she knew what she was doing.
And now Fred with his "motor skills"
I will stop because common sense makes no sense in here.
If one always considers weapons "dangerous", one will treat them so. And you are less apt to have an accident.
They happen, with the best of the best. You know.
If one becomes too comfortable with a dangerous thing, you can bet an accident WILL happen.
Why has that created such an uproar??
That said,

[Mimsy]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Just hard not to speak that way, when one person first turned the word "practice" around to try and make me look silly, then Mimsy, who admittedly, has never held a gun, stated, "innocently" , that she was sure no one was ever killed with an unloaded gun. She was trolling.
Her next statement showed it.

All right. I admit that it is possible to kill a person with an unloaded gun, if said person is willing to hold still long enough for you to beat him/her to death with it. That smiley there means I'm joking, by the way. If you prefer to interpret it as trolling, that's on you, not on me.

Oh and hrlow isn't a "she", he's a "he".

Originally Posted by gloozit

If one always considers weapons "dangerous", one will treat them so. And you are less apt to have an accident.
They happen, with the best of the best. You know.
If one becomes too comfortable with a dangerous thing, you can bet an accident WILL happen.
Why has that created such an uproar??

Because up until that paragraph, that's not what you were saying. If that was your point all along, you need to work on how to clearly express yourself in writing. Spelling out your point is a good start.

I pointed out before that your posts were vague in the extreme, carelessly worded, and phrased in ways that either makes them nothing but jokes that should not be taken seriously, or rude accusations that are deliberately calculated to provoke those you address. since you were so adamant that guns are not a laughing matter, that leaves only one possible interpretation of your posts.

[Serious Sam]

If one becomes too comfortable with a dangerous thing, you can bet an accident WILL happen

Those that are well trained or taught know this & don't let it happen, it's 2nd nature. You're ex military, a gun owner & whatever else, I don't see why you are so dead set on arguing about all this. I've been carrying before it was even legal, never had an accident or mishap, I'd say in the 30+ yrs of doing so that should say something. I've pulled a gun twice in my life in dangerous situations, both times the other person had no clue I was armed & both times I never fired my weapon but was READY to.

[shnerdly]

Gun safety revolves around common sense developed through education and training.

Accidents do happen that involve guns but that doesn't make every person that chooses to carry a gun stupid, careless or dangerous. To make such an assumption implies to me that the individual expressing the assumption doubts his or her own ability and thinks that personal doubt should apply to everyone.

One can use cleverly formed witticisms to claim that unloaded guns kill and all that but the fact is, it's the people that cause the problem, not the gun.

A Gun is an inanimate object. It didn't invent, manufacture or assemble itself, it is incapable of loading itself from an unloaded condition and it is incapable of discharging itself. The only possible danger a gun is able to convey rests with the skill and aptitude of the person that last had or currently has possession of the gun.

[Phantom]

Yep, stupid, ignorant 'sheeple' are the leading cause of death in the world - not guns, war, disease,etc.

[Fred_G]

"Let's start with, some jerk pulls a gun on you and tries to rob you. What do you do? Shoot him? With him drawn down on you, How are you going to get your gun? And when you try to pull it out and he pulls his trigger, what then? A carried gun can protect, IF you are given time to react, and in many of those cases, IF you have time to react, you have time to get the hell out of there.
"

Having the gun allows me to use it or not, as the circumstances are. Just because you have a gun does not mean you have to pull it if you are in a situation where you will most likely be shot going for your gun.

"Same thing with a car jacking, will you be able to pull that gun, without getting your head blown off? Or shooting yourself, in the hurry?"

Same thing. Gun is an option. You know, many people have several tools in their toolbox. A hammer is a great tool. But it does not help much when you need a wrench.

"How about those loaded guns, not in a safe or without trigger locks? What happens if some neighborhood kid decides to break in while you are out? It happens."

I am not responsible for the possible future acts of a criminal. By that logic, we should all have to keep our cars in a safe. You know, incase some kid steals it for a joyride. Happens you know.

"What about if one of your friends decides to look at one of your loaded guns while you are out of the room? It happens. You can't control another's actions."

How does that make the gun dangerous? It is the improper handling of a gun that causes problems. I live alone, and all my friends know how to handle a gun. But, out of respect for each other, we do not handle another person's gun without permission. Owner safes the gun, person looking at gun makes sure it is safe.

"Are you so good, you never make mistakes? Because if you are, you need to get those genes cloned."

If you were to examine the rules of gun safety, you will notice they are layered to minimize the damage if someone makes a mistake. If you keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, if it goes off, nobody is hurt. If you keep your finger off the trigger, the gun can't go off by itself. If you follow those simple things, the gun is safe.

Some interesting facts I found on the Google.

"Number of Privately Owned Firearms
The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000" http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

"Percentage breakdown by US gun deaths in 2004, by type:

16,750 suicides (56% of all U.S. gun deaths)
11,624 homicides (40%)
649 unintentional shootings, 311 from legal intervention and 235 from undetermined intent (4%)."
http://twocrabs.blogs.com/2crabs/200...olence_st.html

That seems to be a pretty low number of accidental deaths for a country having so many dangerous guns.

"Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents.

In 2002, there were an estimated 6,316,000 car accidents in the USA. There were about 2.9 million injuries and 42,815 people were killed in auto accidents in 2002." http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/stats.html

Seems cars are a bit more dangerous. I was at the indoor range today. In a small area, there were 5 other people shooting. I counted 4 rifles, 9 handguns, 2 shotguns if I recall correctly. So around 15 guns, loaded ones, being fired. Nobody was hurt, nobody got shot at.

My point is that, if used safely, a gun is no more dangerous than anything else that could, if used improperly, endanger people.

Owning and carrying a gun do not make you immune from crime. I have not tried to say carrying a gun is for everybody. You are comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps I should not have mentioned carrying a gun in this thread. But, from a safety standpoint, a holstered gun, in a PROPER holster, is yet another layer in gun safety that prevents the gun from 'just going off'.

I found out while at the range, I get Monday off. Bossman was shooting with me, and said he was going to be out of town Monday, so I could stay home if I wanted to. Cool. Bossman left, to go buy a gun.

Evil, unsafe dangerous things, just lying on the ground... (Referring to piture I attached).

[shnerdly]

Regarding carry permits and crime rates, two or three years ago there was an article about the Sheriffs Association for the Detroit, MI. area counties. They had lobbied against the then proposed Michigan Gun Carry Permit law citing that the crime rate would skyrocket if everyone were allowed to carry a gun. A year or two later they announced that they were baffled that the crime rate in the Detroit area had actually dropped since the Carry Permit law. I remember the article because I was astonished that any Government group would acknowledge such a thing.

I tried to find the the article but was unable. I'm fairly sure I saw it on the MG Off Base or Way Off Base News.

[Serious Sam]

Ironic, I'm almost certain Gloozit lives in Michigan

[Fred_G]

Are you talking about this Serious Sam?

http://www.ohioccw.org/200310271490/...h-ccw-law.html

or http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/modul...rticle&sid=877