Gun Safety

[Fred_G]

This is a bit OT, but interesting.

From the PDF " Even so, for the time period of 2004-2006, the non-CPL population
committed about 47 major crimes for every one committed by a CPL. To interpret this
another way, had the non-CPL population been as law-abiding as the CPL population,
there would have been a 96.2% reduction in the number of FBI major crimes committed
for the years 2004-2006.
32"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Xud-ESynTZA5jQ

[shnerdly]

In the Detroit area there is evidently an Association of the Metro County Sheriffs departments. The article I saw was about statistics from that Sheriffs Association although the article you found speaks the same truths.

[Fred_G]

Sorry, misread the post Shnerdly.

[shnerdly]

No worries, It won't drive me to be one of the statistics you quoted earlier.

OT here but have you ever been to the Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek KY.? I've never been there but I have been planning to. They got rained out this year.

[Fred_G]

Originally Posted by shnerdly

No worries, It won't drive me to be one of the statistics you quoted earlier.

OT here but have you ever been to the Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek KY.? I've never been there but I have been planning to. They got rained out this year.

Nope. But I have seen video. I would love to shoot a full auto rifle! Don't want to own one, cause I would go broke buying ammo for it.

http://youtu.be/8CiCgRaKI5I

Thinking about a suppressor for one of my rifles... Not sure how much all the stamps cost.

[hrlow2]

Fred:
Remember. If you ever do fire one on full auto, it will pull from low left to upper right at an angle.

[shnerdly]

A close friend has a few legally owned full auto guns. One is a Lewis Gun. We have planned twice to go with the Lewis gun both times they got flooded out.

I couldn't see what it was but it must have been a Gatling gun at the end of the video.

[Fred_G]

Originally Posted by hrlow2

Fred:
Remember. If you ever do fire one on full auto, it will pull from low left to upper right at an angle.

Thanks for the info. Will adjust my s eating grin accordingly.

[gloozit]

I'm not going to quote any of you but I will answer some things. First crime is not down in Michigan or even in Detroit, due to the carry law or any other law. The Governor just assigned 180 State troopers to 4 cities to bring down the crimes. Detroit is one of them. Get your facts right right, before you go on a gloozit hunt.

Coming to a town near you real soon: 180 state troopers to help
fight crime.
Well, not quite boys and girls. Unless your town is Detroit,
Pontiac, Flint, or Saginaw.
Gov. Rick Snyder, taking on crime-fighting as a new assignment, got
lots of headlines with his recommendation to hire more state cops. But
the rest of the state will have to watch while those troopers battle
the crooks in those crime infested cities.
It’s called “hot spot policing,” and the Snyder administration is
four-square behind this strategy. It is based on the premise that if you
can clean up crime in these areas, the whole state will be better off
for it.

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....to_benefi.html

Owning a gun, takes responsibility and if you do not follow the basic simple rules, YOU are not responsible. One of the basic rules is to store guns so they are NOT accessible. Also, never think a gun can not accidentally misfire. (Fred made the statement that modern guns can't)

Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.
Many factors must be considered when deciding where and how to store guns. A person's particular situation will be a major part of the consideration. Dozens of gun storage devices, as well as locking devices that attach directly to the gun, are available. However, mechanical locking devices, like the mechanical safeties built into guns, can fail and should not be used as a substitute for safe gun handling and the observance of all gun safety rules.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

The rules of gun safety follow from this mindset. There are many variations, and one of them is the Four Rules introduced by Colonel Jeff Cooper, which are:
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.—Jeff Cooper[1]

The NRA provides a similar set of rules:
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.—The National Rifle Association, The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling[2]

The Canadian Firearms Program uses the concept of The Four Firearm ACTS:
1.Assume every firearm is loaded.
2. Control the muzzle direction at all times.
3. Trigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard.
4.See that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe.—Canadian Firearms Centre, The Four ACTS of Firearm Safety[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety

That is why this whole thread is a joke.
False carry facts,(Detroit) and Gun Safety rules, modified to ones personal belief of safety, which conflicts with every organization that supports safe gun use. And most of us are breaking one major rule. (ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.)

If you are going to be an advocate, be one, but do not encourage the breaking of the basic safety rules. And as an advocate, take a look at your own gun policies, before sharing them as safe practices. When yours conflict with the written rules, YOU ARE UNSAFE AND DANGEROUS.
Now go back to joking about guns.
I'm done responding, because I'm sure there will be someone saying they know gun safety rules better than the NRA does.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by gloozit

Owning a gun, takes responsibility and if you do not follow the basic simple rules, YOU are not responsible.

Yes, that includes me and everyone of you who has admitted breaking the basic rules. And leaving a loaded gun around, unlocked is a major violation, regardless of the excuses.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

Oh and hrlow isn't a "she", he's a "he".

Originally Posted by gloozit

then Mimsy, who admittedly, has never held a gun, stated, "innocently" , that she was sure no one was ever killed with an unloaded gun. She was trolling.
Her next statement showed it.
BTW hrlow did state, "Always assume there is a round in the chamber," ie, no gun is ever unloaded. even unloaded ones. I'm pretty sure she knew what she was doing.

The she is you, not hrlow.

[sikvik]

When will everyone just- agree to disagree?
This is a classic debate, never to be resolved.
Like Coke - Pepsi. Well not really but...

Cheers..

[gloozit]

That's the problem, Sikvik.
There should be no debate or disagreement by any of the gun owners here. Or joking about gun use. Or silly gun videos.Or crime statistics. Or talking about firing on full auto. ALL are off topic.
This was supposed to open eyes about SAFETY.
The rules are plain and clear.
If you follow them, 100%, you are LESS likely to have an accident, but that doesn't mean you are never going to have one. Some here thinks that is so.
If you don't follow them, 100%, then you are unsafe. There is no in between.
And unsafe, is dangerous, in any language.

[gloozit]

And I guess I can't leave this thread, someone has to say, The rules are there for a reason.
People can't change them to fit themselves and call themselves safe.
They were created, through the years, by people, who used guns daily, to hunt for food and to protect themselves. And there are lots more than the few I posted.
If this is about safety, let it be about safety. Not someone's made up rules that conflict with every safe practice, ever devised.
New gun owner's do not need to be told it is OK to leave loaded guns laying out. That is the stupidest damn thing I ever heard.

[shnerdly]

First crime is not down in Michigan or even in Detroit, due to the carry law or any other law. The Governor just assigned 180 State troopers to 4 cities to bring down the crimes. Detroit is one of them.

I guess the FBI statistics are somehow skewed?

If this is about safety, let it be about safety. Not someone's made up rules that conflict with every safe practice, ever devised.
New gun owner's do not need to be told it is OK to leave loaded guns laying out. That is the stupidest damn thing I ever heard.

I thought the thread WAS about safety. Just because EVERYONE doesn't share your point of view doesn't mean they are against safety. You even claimed to have a loaded gun in a drawer at home. Hopefully that has been remedied.

And that is why I am against carry laws.
You can be trained. You can be taught. And you can be made aware.
But nothing can remove stupid.

That's what started you catching so much flack, your comments about people in general being unsafe just because they choose to carry a weapon. If it were as unsafe as you claim, it wouldn't be legal. That prompted myself and others to disagree with you. We are all entitled to our opinions.

The rules you posted are all good rules but need to be taken in context.

The rules of gun safety follow from this mindset. There are many variations, and one of them is the Four Rules introduced by Colonel Jeff Cooper, which are:
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.—Jeff Cooper[1]

The NRA provides a similar set of rules:
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.—The National Rifle Association, The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling[2]

The Canadian Firearms Program uses the concept of The Four Firearm ACTS:
1.Assume every firearm is loaded.
2. Control the muzzle direction at all times.
3. Trigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard.
4.See that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe.—Canadian Firearms Centre, The Four ACTS of Firearm Safety[3]

The very last one is what people here have been using to suggest that you are taking things to an extreme. If someone hands you a gun, ASSUME IT IS LOADED despite what they tell you, OPEN THE BREECH AND LOOK. If you see daylight through the barrel, it is NOT a loaded gun and is incapable of firing but you NEED to prove that to yourself. When anyone hands me a gun, the first thing I do is point it to the ground and open the breech to satisfy myself that it is unloaded unless I am intending to shoot it.

I don't think anyone is gloozit hunting. They're all defending their own opinions on how to handle and properly/safely carry a weapon.

[hrlow2]

And LOTS of us here know gun safety.
Known since before you were even born.
We can kid around about it, show funny pics and clips, and laugh.
But in the end, we respect what a firearm is capable of.
We are confident in our own abilities with one.
For myself, I was trained as a sniper. Always know your target before squeezing the trigger.
Groundhogs won't come within 450 yards of me because they know they'll never see their shadow again

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by shnerdly

I guess the FBI statistics are somehow skewed?

Apparently so. I don't believe the Governor of the state would bother hiring 180 new State Troopers to police 4 cities. Or are the newspapers in Michigan skewed??? Statistics can say what ever you want them to and the FBI wants us to think we are safe.

Originally Posted by shnerdly

I thought the thread WAS about safety. Just because EVERYONE doesn't share your point of view doesn't mean they are against safety. You even claimed to have a loaded gun in a drawer at home. Hopefully that has been remedied.

Loaded and in a drawer, in my bedroom, where no company is allowed, and fitted with a trigger lock. Yes, It's loaded and unsafe! And I had plan to keep it that way. And for your info, after looking at the rule sites, and re associating myself, with the rules in black and white, I just may change that, as I can put a magazine in, faster than unlocking it. Unsafe is unsafe. Period and I am not outside of the rules.

Originally Posted by shnerdly

That's what started you catching so much flack, your comments about people in general being unsafe just because they choose to carry a weapon.

It's not just because of carrying a weapon, it's the attitude in here about gun safety. First, a link is posted about gun safety, after I read in another thread, about loaded guns sitting around the house. But that's OK, because "I told people to leave them alone". Unsafe is unsafe, whether a few of these guys want to admit it or not. Other people are talking about carrying for protection. Unless, you are given 5 seconds, to realize the danger, react to it, steady your hand and shoot at someone, who is ready to shoot, your carried gun is useless. And has a good chance of getting you killed, if you aren't properly trained in those situations.

Originally Posted by shnerdly

The rules you posted are all good rules but need to be taken in context.

Oh, I didn't see that instruction on any of the sites I browsed this morning. Excuse me for missing that. And yes, they are good rules, one list came from the NRA.So, I read the rules, then decide which context I want to use the rule in. If the context doesn't fit, I throw the rule out.
Sorry, but those rules are for all contexts and situations.

Originally Posted by shnerdly

The very last one is what people here have been using to suggest that you are taking things to an extreme.

No, this is taking things to an extreme.

Originally Posted by Sibeer

Probably thirty five years ago my wife's cousin was out hunting with his dad and uncle. I think he was twelve. His dad was scoped on an elk and was waiting for it to move from the trees. When it did, the kid who for some reason was crouched down in front of the adults, got excited and jumped up... just when his dad squeezed the trigger. He was hit in the back of the head and died almost instantly. I remember the family was devistated, and as you would expect they never got over it.

Apparently, this man decided to take the rules in context and created his own set of rules, as some have here. It ended well. I'm sure he KNEW gun safety and considered himself safe, too.
I don't want to read a another story like that ever.

[BILLMCC66]

Hey Hrlow2 what was your preferred weapon??
Mine was in the early days a Karl Gustav 7.62 and later i had a Prickskyttegevar 90 that was phenomenal.

[gloozit]

Originally Posted by hrlow2

And LOTS of us here know gun safety.
Known since before you were even born.

Don't trust my birth date.

Originally Posted by hrlow2

For myself, I was trained as a sniper. Always know your target before squeezing the trigger.

Then you know, unsafe is unsafe, no matter how you try to excuse it. And you also know that a gun is a very dangerous tool, and deserves the utmost respect.

[sibeer]

Originally Posted by sibeer

I think this situation falls under "Know your target and what is beyond".
Probably thirty five years ago my wife's cousin was out hunting with his dad and uncle. I think he was twelve. His dad was scoped on an elk and was waiting for it to move from the trees. When it did, the kid who for some reason was crouched down in front of the adults, got excited and jumped up... just when his dad squeezed the trigger. He was hit in the back of the head and died almost instantly. I remember the family was devistated, and as you would expect they never got over it.
Hind sight is 20/20.

I got the information wrong here. The kid who was shot was actually out hunting with a cousin and brother who were 17 and 18 at the time.
Sorry for the misinformation.