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  #81  
Old 04-16-12, 15:20
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Default Re: Gun Safety

^^ What he said.
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Old 04-16-12, 21:21
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Default Re: Gun Safety

I ain't changin' nothing, I feel secure
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  #83  
Old 04-17-12, 00:02
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Your intent has been plain throughout your posts, and in my opinion it was not just to promote “gun safety” overall. Your choice of words and stereotypical sayings give you away. You stated that handgun carry permits should not be allowed. You have the right to that position; however don’t try to hide your disdain for those of us who support the right to carry behind some kind of safety related agenda. I’m not buying it.

I have never understood the mind-set that passing laws to limit a private citizen’s right to carry a weapon is a panacea for all gun-related problems. I have served in the military, been a police officer, and routinely carry a handgun everywhere I go. You might argue that I have extensive training in firearms, and this is true – but I can tell you I am far more concerned with drunk drivers and criminals with guns then I am with any law abiding citizen who has a license to carry but may not have the level of training that I have. Firearm accidents are terrible, and preventable . . . but so is any other fatal accident. Accidental deaths due to firearms don’t even make the top 10 forms of accidental deaths, according to data on the CDC site.

Most accidents, by their very nature, are preventable. Gun safety, and safety in general, is a very, very important consideration. The vast majority of gun owners are very aware of that (as are the vast majority of motor vehicle owners of vehicle safety, for that matter). I am willing to believe you are concerned with gun safety . . . but you certainly have an odd way of espousing it.
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  #84  
Old 04-17-12, 05:53
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Very first post by you, post 12, you state that you were against gun carry laws.
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  #85  
Old 04-17-12, 06:46
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Not every one of the carriers fall onto the careless category.
Many are active or retired law enforcement officers or military.
Many have indeed been in combat situations and been shot at and been forced to return fire.
As such, they have the experience to recognize the proper time to reach or keep hands away.
Will concede the point that there are many that do not need to be carrying. The ones who get the permit for the feeling of power it gives or because it is the current "in" thing to do.
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Old 04-17-12, 06:53
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Interesting language you use Gloozit.

"Apparently there is just a bunch of good ole boys here that won't even consider looking at their practices. That ain't safe if you are going to argue that you're safe when you break any of those rules."

"I'm not against guns being used for protection, but I am against some careless damn fool getting a carry permit and thinking that he is invincible."

"It is not, buy a gun, take a little course, and now you have superman's cape."

Define 'good ole boy' please. And who here said they were superman? Damn fools? That is not very nice. Name calling often creeps in when you can't support your opinion. Not accusing you of anything.
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  #87  
Old 04-17-12, 07:57
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Quote:
Do you think Billy the Kid didn't practice? And he was killed because his back was turned. What about Doc Holiday, another gunfighter, who never got to draw.
These guys were well practiced and never got that chance to defend themselves, so their guns, may as well have been lollipops for all the good they did.
OMG Now you're comparing modern times with the old west?!?!?!?! WOW, wonder if they had CCL's to carry those guns
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  #88  
Old 04-17-12, 10:01
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Default Re: Gun Safety

This is one of the ways I "practice", I keep informed

Link to full story



I recently saw a news article from Connecticut describing a rather remarkable shooting.

It got me thinking about how we should train our family members and friends to act in the event we have to draw a firearm for protection.

The article described a shooting that occurred in a convenience store. The store clerk (a concealed weapons permit holder) and his girlfriend were working behind the counter when two armed robbers entered the store. The robbers took cash from a customer standing in line and then one of them pointed his gun at the clerk.

The clerk thought he was going to be killed and saw an opportunity to act. Feigning compliance, he began to draw his pistol. As he was drawing, his girlfriend yelled out “Don’t do it! Don’t do it!”




Have you thought about what you would do if you were with a young child in a retail store that was being robbed?



Fortunately, the clerk didn’t fumble his draw. He was able to shoot at the robbers and drive them from the store just moments before the robbers were alerted by his well-meaning, but misguided girlfriend.

The type of untrained response that the clerk’s girlfriend exhibited is not uncommon. It is potentially life threatening, but can easily be prevented by discussing or role playing particular scenarios that you and your family members may experience.

Family members and friends should be taught to be alert to their surroundings and to pay attention to the directions of their armed companions. Put all other family or spousal dynamics aside—the person with the gun calls the shots! Everyone else obeys orders. There isn’t time to argue or have a discussion about the relative merits of each course of action. In the event of an emergency, the armed family member must take charge and everyone else should instantly obey the armed person’s orders.

Family members and friends should be instructed to remain silent and not disclose the fact that anyone is armed. Statements like, “Draw your gun and shoot him!” or “Don’t do it!” should obviously be avoided. Explaining the consequences of such actions (both of you getting shot) is likely to convince your family members to keep the fact that you are armed a secret.

I have instructed my family and friends that, should we be attacked, they are to remain quiet and do exactly what I tell them to do. My goal will be to get them to safety before I engage, if possible. If things happen too quickly for me to tell them what to do, I have instructed them to get as far away from me as possible once I draw my weapon.

Teach your family about cover (which materials protect them from bullets and which won’t). Should you have to draw your gun, instruct your friends and family to get away from you, get to cover, and call the police. Train them to give a description of you (gender/age/clothing) to police and tell them that you are a CCW permit holder. You don’t want to be mistakenly shot by responding officers!

Your companions also need to know not to leave their cover to approach your body if you are shot. For all they know, you could be playing dead in order to distract the attacker or get him to focus on something else. Having a family member leave cover to run up to your seemingly lifeless body will unnecessarily expose them to danger. It may be tough for your family to ignore the fact that you may be severely injured, but the most important thing they can do is to stay safe so that you do not have to worry about them as well.

Teaching these concepts to young children can be especially challenging. Younger children have problems obeying orders under the best conditions, let alone when they are panicked at the thought of their parents being killed.




Be prepared for your children to freeze under the effects of stress.



I would suggest that you start working with your children early. First, teach them about awareness. A friend of mine plays a game called I spy with his two young children. You’ve probably played the game yourself when you were younger. One person starts out by saying “I spy …” and gives a hint like, “something blue.” The other person has to guess what the original “spy” is looking at.

My friend modifies the game with his young kids so that only people (rather than objects) can be “spied.” He plays the game with them in public areas when his attention might be diverted to other tasks (like loading the groceries into the car or placing his youngest daughter in a car seat). In effect, he gets his children to be more aware of their surroundings and to serve as an extra set of eyes as he is busy completing his tasks. If his kids say, “I spy a man with a gun,” he knows he has to act!

Additionally, I would suggest that you develop a code word with your children. I like using the code word “emergency.” Train your kids that when mommy or daddy says the code word, nothing less than unquestioned obedience should follow. No fussing, arguing, or hesitation is allowed.

Practice some drills in public places using the code word and reward your children when they get it right. Practice by selectively yelling phrases like: “Emergency! Run to the car” or “Emergency! Get out of the house!” to get them in the habit of following orders immediately.
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  #89  
Old 04-17-12, 10:01
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Default Re: Gun Safety

I love the comparison to the Old West. Why? Because the Old West had LESS gun crimes. You expected people to be armed, so you didn't want to try and rob them.

As for permits, remember: The definition of a criminal is someone who doesn't obey the law. Thus legislating does nothing to stop criminals. At all.
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  #90  
Old 04-17-12, 10:28
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Default Re: Gun Safety

I am sorry Sam but your story is flawed in the fact that for a robbery it is only material possessions and nobody should be drawing down on the perpetrator.

If life is in danger be aware of your surroundings and any person who could be shot in a crossfire before you think about drawing a weapon.

Now you will probably say that in the heat of the moment you don't have time to think but that is the very training that is needed and not just pulling and shooting, Professionals are trained in this way and spend hours honing their skills so that the innocent bystander has less chance of being hurt or killed in such a situation.
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  #91  
Old 04-17-12, 10:37
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Not really my story, just a website I follow (& I don't believe everything I read) here's another from the very same site

Full story


It was midnight. My wife and I were asleep when suddenly a noise that was loud enough woke me up.

I quickly turned to my right and felt for my Glock 17 on the night stand. As I pulled it out of the holster and pointed it toward our open bedroom door, my wife’s hand touched me and she whispered, “Ray, did you hear that?” I softly replied back, “Yes,” as I kept the muzzle of my Glock trained on our bedroom door. Although my adrenaline was pumping, I did remember to keep my finger off the trigger.

Both of us heard a board creek in the small hallway leading to the front door. This confirmed our suspicion that something had not accidently fallen from the wall. Someone had stepped on that spot that always popped. I quickly got out of bed, keeping my pistol pointed at the door. I reached for my small Surefire flashlight with the On button at its rear. I crouched down, hoping that if someone appeared in the doorway with a firearm he would have it pointed over my head.

The room was now bathed in total darkness. The only thing the intruder would see, if he appeared in the hallway, would be my Glock…

When I arrived at the doorway, I slowly inched to my right to see into the living room to view the beginning of the hallway to the left where the sound would have come from. We have a night light in that hallway and I saw nothing. To the right is a door leading into the kitchen. I held the flashlight high and hit the button for about a second to illuminate most of it. Nothing. I held the flashlight high because the intruder might understand that bullets will punch through walls. If he fired in my direction, hopefully he would think I was standing up and shoot high. I inched forward a little more so I could hit the button again and see into the dining room and most of the living room. Nothing.

I then went into prone position with my Glock pointed toward the hallway. The hallway led to the front door. Off to the right of that are the guest bedroom, a guest bathroom, and a small bedroom that I have made into my office. Perhaps the intruder had come through a window in my office, knocking something over which had awakened us?

We have a night light in our bedroom and one in the master bathroom. I turned the one off close to me. I whispered to my wife to turn off the other one. She quickly complied. The room was now bathed in total darkness. The only thing the intruder would see, if he appeared in the hallway, would be my Glock and a fraction of my head and left arm at the bottom of the doorway. I asked myself if I would shoot if someone appeared. My answer was, “yes.” I was ready to stop his threat.
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  #92  
Old 04-17-12, 10:51
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Default Re: Gun Safety

I understand what you are saying but these sort of stories give credence to the idea that a gun will solve all problems.

I spent a great part of my life carrying arms and never once drew down on another human being who was not threatening my life.

Because of my training i still to this day scan a room when i enter and if possible sit at a table with my back to a wall,it's automatic.

A sergeant who i served with once said to me "anyone pulls a gun on me had better be ready to use it because if i get close enough to him i will first break his arm and then stick the gun up his ar$$".

This is just to illustrate the professional way of handling a situation where you would try to get close to the perpetrator and disarm him.

When this thread started it was about safety and the safest weapon is the one still in the holster.
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  #93  
Old 04-17-12, 10:52
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Quote:
I am sorry Sam but your story is flawed in the fact that for a robbery it is only material possessions and nobody should be drawing down on the perpetrator."]I am sorry Sam but your story is flawed in the fact that for a robbery it is only material possessions and nobody should be drawing down on the perpetrator.
Sorry Bill, but if someone breaks into my house, I ain't gonna ask them what their intentions are.
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Last edited by Serious Sam; 04-17-12 at 11:00..
  #94  
Old 04-17-12, 18:37
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLMCC66 View Post
I am sorry Sam but your story is flawed in the fact that for a robbery it is only material possessions and nobody should be drawing down on the perpetrator.

If life is in danger be aware of your surroundings and any person who could be shot in a crossfire before you think about drawing a weapon.

Now you will probably say that in the heat of the moment you don't have time to think but that is the very training that is needed and not just pulling and shooting, Professionals are trained in this way and spend hours honing their skills so that the innocent bystander has less chance of being hurt or killed in such a situation.
Bill, in the referenced article, a gun was pointed at the cashier. Depending on state laws, that is a justifiable shoot. In some states, you can defend your property with deadly force. Defending property is a bit iffy for me, but if someone comes in and points a gun... That would be different.
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Old 04-17-12, 18:44
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Bill, these are wise words: " the safest weapon is the one still in the holster."

If I am carrying my gun in public, I am watching and doing my best to avoid ANY type of confrontation. Even if I am robbed and have a reason to shoot someone, you can end up with a lot of legal hassle. Looks over at the controversial case in Florida...

I have heard it expressed like this. "The best way to win a gunfight is to avoid it."

But if someone kicks in my door at night, I think they have announced their intentions.
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Old 04-17-12, 18:58
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by gloozit View Post
Being called a "good ole boy' is offensive? Not to me. And if it is to you, I apologize. WIllie is a good ole boy, so is Hank, Johnny, and countless others I can think of and they all had guns.
But good ole boys, usually back each others statements, against anyone, they don't consider a "good ole boy", right or wrong.
No one said they are superman, but everyone, here, who has a loaded gun or carry permit, has insinuated, THEY are the protector of their family (as they should be) and they seem to think that gun WILL protect them and not make them a target. It can save you, if used, with common sense training, and no one is speaking out about how recent or how much TRAINING they have had.
And until, I see that, they are just guys with guns. One WAS a sniper, but when? and how long since the last time he was trained? Has he been to classes since? Has he picked up bad habits? Who knows? I don't. When was the last time, you've been to a hunter's safety class to review your practices? Or any class? Habits develop quickly, especially bad ones.
I go to a hunter's class every year, for my own reasons, mostly because I hunt squirrels, with young kids.I make sure the kid's I hunt with, know gun safety. And I rabbit hunt with my cousin's dog. Do you know how easy it is to mistake a dog for a rabbit in thick brush? Ain't shot it yet, because I don't hurry, ever, when I have a gun in my hands. Because when you hurry, you make mistakes, unless trained and practiced.
I, never said, "everyone" is careless, hrlow. The whole gist of my posts is to make you all aware, and all any you want to say, is, "Don't even begin to say I may have an unsafe practice, because I will shut down and refuse to even think about it."
Your posts and numerous other posts, show, that most of you consider yourselves safe, (hopefully that is true) but refuse to take a good look. What can hurt by reviewing your practices? And why such a loud uproar to do that? Pride can cause a lot of trouble.
You make some good points. Training is always good. It seems this thread has morphed from basic gun safety, which was my intent, to concealed carry and training.

I have never taken a hunter safety course. Unless you consider all the time my Grandfather and Uncles pounded how to be safe into my head. I don't hunt anymore. Well, may go dove hunting this year.

And carrying a loaded shotgun around while hunting rabbits is a different thing than carrying a gun in a proper holster.

Threads drift. Part of the fun of being on a forum with such a diverse group of people. My intent of the thread was just basic gun safety. And note, in my first post, I mention proper storage of guns if you have kids and such. It then moved into home defense, CCL, and all kinds of safety stuff.
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Old 04-17-12, 19:06
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Originally Posted by gloozit View Post
I said I will bow out and I have. I won't offend anyone anymore, with what I consider safe.
I do have a question though.
If violent crime is so bad in your areas, and I can't imagine it is worse than the downtown areas, here,
Why haven't any of you mentioned alarm systems or dogs??
Most likely if someone breaks inand you are home, it will be night and you will be asleep. And after a couple of drinks, a hard days work, or something that puts you into a deep sleep, it could be pretty darn hard to hear someone.
Serious protection with a dog. I have a couple, one is 65 lbs. and not happy about strangers. She would probably eat anyone that came in before I ever got out of bed. :D
If anyone would come in, in the first place. She makes her presence known.
Alarms chase people , too.
I know it's not gun safety, but if you are serious about protection, layers of protection work much better than a last resort defense. Just saying.
I fully agree with you. Dogs are a great alarm. A dog has not called to me since Fred died, so I am dogless. I live in an area where I could probably leave my door unlocked. I am more worried about places I go at work. The chances of me using a gun again to prevent a break in are extremely rare. I would rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it. Plus, I love shooting them. (in a nice safe way at an NRA rule type safe gun range.)

An alarm and maybe some outdoor cameras are a possibility.

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away. (Why I keep the 1911 condition 1 on the nightstand.)
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  #98  
Old 04-17-12, 20:34
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Default Re: Gun Safety

I live in what I consider a pretty safe neighborhood in a rural area, not a city. It's a small subdivision surrounded by farmland and empty acreage, I have dbl deadbolts on both doors as well as the doorknobs. The wife is an EXTREMELY light sleeper and doesn't drink (and she has her own gun). Like I've stated previously, I have my reasons for being armed (no I don't carry to go grocery shopping) & I will stay this way probably forever & pass my guns on to my kids.
I will have another dog, just not sure when
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Old 04-17-12, 21:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gloozit View Post
Let me give you a good tip.
Go pheasant hunting.
If you don't crap your britches and accidentally fire, when one of those buggers, takes off, a foot from you, making that damn noise they make, I will be much more agreeable.
Kinda a rite of passage in my family. My dad laughed for year the first time I went with him. That's when I got my shotgun. It was given to him, by my grandfather.
I hunt pheasants for the rush. I don't even care if I shoot. Those darn things spook ya, when you least expect it.
But it is close to being surprised by a bad guy and having just a split second to accurately bring your gun to bear, aim and shoot, while being totally aware of who, is where, in the field you are in.
And no I didn't accidentally fire and I will never admit to crapping my pants. But it did scare the heck outta me.
Don't think there are pheasants around here. But, only take the safety off when the gun is shouldered. Would most likely miss shots by not taking the safety off fast enough with the shotgun.
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Old 04-17-12, 22:01
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Default Re: Gun Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Sam View Post
I live in what I consider a pretty safe neighborhood in a rural area, not a city. It's a small subdivision surrounded by farmland and empty acreage, I have dbl deadbolts on both doors as well as the doorknobs. The wife is an EXTREMELY light sleeper and doesn't drink (and she has her own gun). Like I've stated previously, I have my reasons for being armed (no I don't carry to go grocery shopping) & I will stay this way probably forever & pass my guns on to my kids.
I will have another dog, just not sure when
I carry at the local grocery store sometimes. Great way to see if I am printing. Telling someone their gun is showing is almost like telling someone their pants are unzipped around here.

Gloozit, you would have been amused when I met the peeps from another gun forum in Dallas a few weeks ago. Some of them took two trips to unload guns from their cars onto the baggage dolly thing.
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