Rebooting computer

Hi All,
I have been beating myself with this problem for about 3 months and so far no joy, so it's time to call in the big guns.

I have a computer that keeps rebooting, randomly, annoyingly.

System Specs

Raidmax Scorpio Case
1 intake fan
2 heat sensored outflow fans
420PSU
ASUS P4P800 UAY mobo
- onboard sound not enabled
- onboard LAN enabled
Intel 3Ghz HT
512MB OCZ RAM
Audigy Soundcard
Lite-On DVD Burner
Lite-On CD burner
IBM 30Gb PATA HDD-- 4 years old
Maxtor 80Gb SATA--- 3 months old
MSI FX5900XT Video card.
Cold Cathode light for effect
Win XP Pro- SP1
Norton AV
Zone Alarm
All software up to date

The problem:
This sucker reboots 70 to 80% of the time on powerup. sometimes rebooting upt to 8 times (the record) in succession. The point at which it reboots is random. Sometimes at the Windows splash screen, other times right after the POST, others after the desktop is loaded and I have full control.
I let chkdsk run everytime and have even had a reboot in safe mode.
It will also reboot during games, while surfing the net, watching DVDs, watching videos, playing MP3s etc. With the expection of the power on reboots I have not been able to reproduce the reboots in software or in games, but I have had reboots in MS Office, DOOM3, Half Life 2, Warhammer 40K, IE6, Outlook, iTunes...and the list goes on.


What I have tried:
Check the system temp- it's fine.
Went to onboard Sound- same issue.
Reinstalled Win XP- bare metal install- wiped both drives, reformatted and installed.
Quadruple checked my BIOS settings.
Disabled/uninstalled all software ie. Zone, Norton,steam, etc to see if it is a issue with multiple internet seeking programs on boot.
Disabled most of my startup via msconfig.
Full AV scan using norton and AVG. Also ran Adaware and Hijack this as well. No joy.


What I still want to try:
Install a PCI NIC and see if that helps.

What I fear:
Bad RAM
Bad PSU

So this is where it stands today. I have a computer that reboots at will and I have no idea why. Any and all suggestions ( within reason ) accepted and appreciated.

Mkarzi

 

try running memtest one stick at a time overnight ... or at least untill you get errors

 

Hey ~Pyrate~.
Thanks, I forgot that I did run Memtest on the RAM overnight and no errors- Maybe I'll let it run until this sucker reboots---again.

Thanks again.

 

The most common 3 reason for 'random system reboots' are:

RAM (incompatible or low quality), inadequate or faulty PSU and finally CPU/System overheating (not to forget the related settings in the BIOS).

So concentrate on these 3 but since Pyrate already mentioned the RAM possibility I wanted to bring the other 2 to your attention.

Let us know.

 

I agree with Turcoloco.

You've done a good job Mkarzi and have narrowed it down considerably. I'd concentrate on the big three, and as you know, the only untested part left is the PSU. Your welcome. Captain Obvious signing off...

LOL actually a little off topic but I read (maybe on MG don't recall) an overheating test for you maybe, never did it but somebody was saying you take the side case off, get a big fan, and point it inside the case, to test for bad overheating, don't know if it really works but I'd guess it could be helpful in testing

 

Hi All,
Thanks for all the suggestions.

I just ran Memtest for the past 4 hours and no errors found.
Just to be on the safe side I have conviced a buddy to bring over his computer-- exact same config, mostly, well it should be, I built both, to bring over his comp so I can swap out the RAM- he's running Kingston not OCZ
I am leaning more and more towards the PSU being the problem. Just wish there was a cheap way to test before springing for a new unit.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted as I play around.

 

Hi,

This leads me to think the psu, this is when alot of power on the 12v rail is being drawn by drives powering up. Are you monitoring the voltages and are there fluctuations on the 12v or5v and what are the voltages? What brand name is the psu and how old? Just looking for clues,

Is the 12v 4 plug connecter from the psu to the mobo pluged in? This is in addition to the main psu to mobo connection.

I think by the tests you have run that your ram is ok.

This is a good idea and will work.

How about the cpu temp, I ain't sure what yours should run at but would like to know and will try to look into if it seems high. High cpu temp almost always will lead to reboot.

Rick

 

im not sure but i think the normal temps are around 80 degress F and 30 degrees C

 

Hiya

Start up Mobo temp-- 25c
Start up CPU temp- 32c
After 20 minutes of HL 2 or DOOM3
Mobo- 32c
CPU- 38c
After running memtest for 5 hours
No real change.
I run a fairly cool case. I used to OC my CPUs ( this one has never been OCed) so I am very aware of temp issues.

With reference to the PSU voltage I have to scam a voltmeter from someone to check the damn thing.
And yes all of the plugs are connected and fitted. I opened the case this morning to double check--heat creep can be a pain. I reset all of the connections and still I get randome reboots. Hell the damn thing just rebooted while searching the internet and listening to iTunes.
For some reason I can't get ASUSprobe to install so I am slightly at a loss for hard data on the PSU. I think I may have to take it in to my local comp shop and have them test it.

Again I appreciate all the suggestions and effort.

Thanks

Mkarzi

 

if you cant get it tested you could always borrow another power supply

 

I just ran FreshDiagnose and here is the reading I get from it:

Voltages
CPU Core 3.17V
+2.5V 3.15V
+3.3V 3.36V
+5V 5.08V
+12V 12.60V
-12V -12.60V
-5V -5.25V
+5V Standby 4.75V
VBat Battery 4.08V


Okay you tech heads is that +2.5V reading at 3.15V outside the norm? I refeashed the sensors about 20 times and it stayed pretty rock steady at 3.14V to 3.16V.

 

What pentium 4 3Ghz are you running? If its the prescott then the problem is your cpu core voltage is supposed to be at 1.4vdc, not 3.17vdc! If you have the retail box still (if you assembled it) then on the side with all the information it will say the voltage.

Once you know the voltage set it up manually in the bios instead of auto, which might not be detecting your correct cpu?

I wouldn't be worried about that +2.5v being at 3v.

 

I noticed that you're running XPSP1, and that your computer reboots randomly, but you didn't mention an error code. That can be a big help in trouble shooting at times. Go to Control Panel - System - Advanced, and at the bottom you should see an entry for Start up and Recovery. Click on this option, and toward the bottom, I believe, you will see an entry for Auto reboot on error. Uncheck this one, and click apply and ok. Next time that you have an error, instead of rebooting, you will have a blue screen giving you an error message and error code to aid in trouble shooting the problem. Hope this helps.

 

Good call Novice

 

Well, that is also something worth checking for most users, I fear that it would be useless since the error message from the memory dumps could be quite vague and confusing, not to mention if it was indeed a problem with the RAM then good luck figuring the problem from the logs. I'd concentrate on relevant BIOS settings and the possibility of bad RAM. Also the PSU could be bad and acting up time-to-time (though not a very common thing).
1 more thing, are you using a surge protector or a UPS device? How is the electricity in the neighborhood? Any possibility of surges, spikes & brownouts? A surge-protector might protect for surges (quick and sudden increase of voltage) but will not against brownouts (decrease in voltage).
These are not common in most areas but wanted to mention to, at this point each and every person mentioned a note-worthy thing or two. Keep us updated with your efforts.

 

Again at the risk of sounding like I am kissing up here, thanks for all the suggestions. When you are working on a problem it is sometimes hard to distance yourself and you start to miss things.


The CPU is a Northwood OEM and the BIOS has no trouble recognizing it nor has it. VCORe is 1.56V. I built this machine in October 2003 and it was fine until April 2004 when the reboots started. In that time I did go from a old GeForce 3 vid card to the present FX5900XT. The reboots started about 1 month after the installation of the video card. To rule out a bad vid card I swapped the old one back in and I still got the reboots.

I completely forgot about the Auto-reboot. Thanks Novice, I do agree the codes can be annoying but at this point they are probably less annoying than the reboots.

Power. I live in a newer subdivision and to date we have had no power issues. I do have an APC UPS and it has been behaving as well.

The few times I get a windows error report it usually says my CPU has dectected a hardware problem and has shut down the system. I also get the occasion driver issue ( 1 out of every 20 error reports).

Well I'm off to the day job but I will leave this darlin running benchmarks for for the day.

Further updates as events warrant.

Thanks again.

Mkarzi

 

Yea I would also definitly try to check your powersupply to determine if its causing problems. I myself still believe its an issue with the power supply. Also i assume you have ran an uptodate virus scanner to rule out the possiblity of a virus.

 

lol i dont even think virus crossed anyones mind. nice job colemanguy

 

Yea i thought of it cause last night I had a customer who actually still had the blaster virus and the reboots made me wonder if its an new mutant form of it. I doubt it but its something to check.

 

It did cross my mind but one dead give away the viruses have: pattern, meaning either running a certain process each and every time or after a certain given time they kick in (example: 60 second countdown with blaster & sasser viruses) which his reboots seemed too random to suspect virus infection as a high possibility.

 

Hi all,
I have run several virus scans. All negative Also have run Ad-Aware SE with no issues showing.
I headed off to work today leaving the computer to chew on some benchmarks- Sisoft Sandra- upon returning I had a BSOD.
"Fastfat.sys" error. Oddly enough this sucker rebooted three times while I tried to get to the forums year- the odd thing was no BSOD- rebooted with no error message.
This offends me...

...in so many ways.
I guess I will have to bite the bullet and take this baby in to have the PSU tested, will also scarifice a goat just in case.

Sigh.

 

More system information please.

Motherboard
CPU - Processor
Memory type
OS - Operating System

 

Try running prime95's tourture test at least then we will know for sure it is hardeware, prime will test psu ,cpu,mobo,ram and heat but it won't tell you witch is bad. Watch the voltages as it is running and see if they are steady.
Tell us how long it ran till it errored. Any error and then bad hardeware for sure, if it runs for 8 hours or so then it ain't hardeware. I suspect if its the psu the it will error quick.

I ain't into intel much but the cpu core voltage(vcore) seems high. I will search around to see if thats correct. In the mean time check the vcore in bios and let us know in case its a bad software readout.

Rick

 

pssst,Suesman his specs are in the very first post

 

Thanks Doby,
Just grabbed prime95. I'll let you know how it goes.

I checked Vcore in Bios- 1.568 so I suspect bad software read.

Back to the fun.

Mkarzi

 

I had a similar problem which turned out to be an automated download of sp2 for win xp. Took a call to microsoft's sp2 hotline to get it fixed. The agent strongly suggested I not download sp2. Without sp2, pc went back to normal.

 

yeah I had major issues with SP2. I have since wiped the HDD and only installed up to SP1.

 

am i missing something? if your buddy is bringing over his system anyhow, why not swap out the psu? if his then reboots and yours doesnt, bingo?

 

it could be either RAM or PSU but since it is much easier/quicker to swap RAM sticks than it is to swap PSU, IMO it would be smarter to test RAM first.

 

yes i agree, but i was just pointing out that while he had his friend's computer at his house and open, he could try swapping psu instead of buying a new one. edit- that is, if swapping the ram didn't work first.

 

just a lil FYI ... i have a northwood box right here and the standard voltage of mine is 1.525 .. case ya didn't know

 

I know EFI...

Additional somewhat related note: for all those using a UPS, do not have anything other then your PC and Monitor connected....definitely avoid connecting your print device.

 

Hiya,
I have considered swapping the PSU if I can convice my freind to dismatle his computer. He has a reasonable amount of faith in me but i don't know if he will let me go that far, but I will try.

I let prime95 run today. It bailed after 6 hours. Got a BSOD page fault in non paged area.

Upon rebooting it restarted 5 times and I got 15,count them 15, MS online error reports. 1 thru 13 were "device driver", #14 was Graphic Device error and #15 was Hardware problem detected by CPU error.

This is so much fun.

Further updates as events warrant. I'mgettingbusy with work for the next couple days but I will keep working this in my spare time.

Thanks again everyone, I do appreciate it and will cough up for a beer if you're ever in my neck of the woods.

 

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/articles/guides/Power_Supply_Guide_1.html
Read the above artical you should check the psu in this way. I don't think its the psu In my experience with prime it will error very quickly when a bad psu exists. Run prime again there is a setting to check lots of ram, run it with this and let us know if it errors more quickly. Then run memtest again for 24 hours, I know this seems extreme but we need to rule out the ram and psu by using these methods. I did not expect prime to run for 6 hours.

Rick

 

Hi All,
Well it has been an interesting couple days.
I have swapped out the PSU and retied different ram-- no change in behavior,ie the computer is rebooting on start up and at random times.

So last night I did the following in hopes of narrowing down the problem. I wiped both HDDs,reinstalled WinXP Pro and SP2, then one by one installed the drivers for Vid/sound/NIC.
Nic install----- No reboots
Sound Install--No reboots
Video Driver install-- Rebooted 3 times.

I have an MSI FX5900XT with the 61.77 drivers. I have an older video card kicking around ( 3d Phophet II MX- I told you it was old) and I will swap out to see if that helps.

Have to say that I was surprised to see the video drivers cuase a reboot. I even went back and installed older NVIDA and MSI drivers with the same result.

I'll let you know how the old vid card does.

Mkarzi

 

I hate to sound like a broken record but only system component that could cause issues with Video Card is the system RAM. It is possible that your Video card is causing the reboots once the drivers were installed but so far all the similar incidents I witnessed had the RAM as the culprit....this is my last input, if it turns out to be something else let me know.

Note: If none of the system resources are in a conflict with each other (IRQ conflicts, though not too common with XP)

Here is my suggestion (again), have only the mobo/cpu/only 1 GOOD & supported RAM stick/ 1 hard drive and CD-ROM to install Windows from no NIC no sound card start with the needed vital components then add the other card one by one and check...only a suggestion.

Good Luck!

 

Turcoloco
You are not a broken record and I do appreciate your suggestions.
I am trying to get a stick o'ram to work with and will redo the install with barebones system.
I'll let you know

Thanks again

Mkarzi

 

Well, prime don't check video cards and video cards won't make prime error if prime errors then there is a problem with psu, ram,cpu mobo or heat. We know its not heat and are 99% sure its not the psu, so I would run memtest again on each individual stick of ram but for a much longer time, any errors and that a problem. If you rule out the ram then its time to find a cpu test such as thishttp://www.majorgeeks.com/download215.html . I don't know much about the program so you'll have to read up but maybe it can give you a hint if its possible the cpu or mobo.

Rick

 

Finally a solution.

First I want to thank everyone who posted and tried to help- I owe you all.

The problem? A pooched PSU. The fun thing was it was a random short that would undervolt the system causing a shut down. He's the 'fun' bit,even if I would have replaced the PSU I still would be having the problems as the constant reboots killed my SATA HDD.

So one PSU and a SATA drive later I have a working computer.

Thanks again,

Mkarzi

 

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in my last post.

Less than 20 minute after I wrote the reply below the computer started rebooting with a vigor rarely seen in compters these days. Every single start up would bring on 3 or 5 reboots. The computer would freeze online, in Windows Explorer...anywhere and everywhere, so back to the shop it went.

The shop swapped out, in order;

The Video card---- Still rebooted
The RAM----Still rebooted
The Sound card--- Stopped rebooting for almost and hour then started rebooting
The MoBo- rebooted like a bear
The CPU----------not a sinlge reboot. Installed the CPU in their test bed, their test bed rebooted.

The culprit after all this time----The CPU.

So I have a computer again, and it seems to be behaving. Have sacrificed a Mac user to the Intel gods in hopes that this will be finally be over.

Thanks again all.

Mkarzi

 

Hello i have a simililar problem, i bought a abit kv7 i have 512 ram pc2100, GFORCE 2 64MB AGP, i was trying to install windows XP professional, but my computer keeps rebooting when its copying the files, or when is gonna begin the install process. Please i havent used this mobo yet, i havent installed any OS with it, please help me what can it be !!! my mail is l.terrero@verizon.net.do !!!!

 

Hi ardebaran what cpu and psu do you have?

Rick

 

i have an Athlon XP 2400+, and my PSU is 450 watts output !!

 

i have a new abit kv7, with a amd athlon XP 2400+ CPU, 512 DDR PC2100 RAM 266, 64MB gforce 2 pine, 60 GB maxtor HD, well, i had a problem, when im trying to install windows it reboot while im installing it, any time, when it's going to begin, when is copying, sometimes it pop a blue screen with an error and sometimes it frezee up, i dont know what to do, the memory is new, the cpu is new too, im confused i really need help, can somebody knows what can it be, i cannot install windows , i haven't used my new pc !! please help me !! my email is l.terrero@verizon.net.do

 

Begin by checking the ram with this http://www.majorgeeks.com/download1247.html

You make a bootable floppy so no need to have os installed to run. Let it run for at least 3 passes for a quick check but 8 hours for a good check. Any errors and thats your problem.

Rick

 

I guess I should have asked this before but
Did you go into bios and load failsafe defaults?
What is your fsb set at?
What is your ram clock set at?

Rick

 

i downloaded the memtest and ran it, i dont really understand it , but it show a lot of red bars with some hex codes, and some MB numerics indications, im confused because the DDR memories r new!! isnt there a way to fix any mem problem ??

 

Just because thr ram is new don't mean its good.

Now I am confussed, that don't sound like memtest,you should have a blue backround white letters and the only thing red would be where it says memtest-86v3.1. Put the floppy in and boot on the top left of the screen it should list the processor and some other info, on top right it should list pass% and test% and test number. In the middel of the screen should be more info and toward the left it will list the number of passes and errors.
Is this what you have?

The main reasons that windows won't install are,
incorrect bios settings
bad ram
bad psu

Rick

 

i got all of this, its still running from yesterday, down of those things that you told me that memtest have (blue backgroud, white letters....) there are the indications with the red background and white letters, and down of the Errors it says like 57104 i supose that means the memory is not working at 100%

 

I have Raidmax Scorpio case, I also had reboot problem.

The case has a door to hide your drives, which has wires running into the case to the front pannel header, the wires are for the HDD led's & the the power led's.
Over time these wires can break and short out.
This is what happend to me, the pc would radomly reboot.
I disconnected the HDD led & power led, problem solved, just no pretty light's upfront.

Check your wires!