next time you get stopped for speeding????

The news is what the media wants us to see. The truth is manipulated and sometimes dead wrong, to make a good read.

Sad but true.

 

That's where we started Dyamond....watching real news about a taser-happy cop. We can all turn a blind eye, pretend this stuff never really happens and you know what that will achieve? It will make it ok. It will happen more and more because society doesn't challenge the law, but sees it as a godly authoratitive figure. Just because a person carries a badge doesn't make them automatically above the law or correct themselves. In this case I do believe a little humbling and admittance of bad practice is necessary by the cop.

 

I give up, You win.

 

I'd like to add that its not that I feel the cop shouldnt have arrested him (if the law in utah is that not signing a ticket=arrest), just that excessive force was used.

Both of them were jerks.

 

The vast majority of Americans believe that the crime rates in this nation have spiked since the early 1990's, because they watch the news. The reality is that crime rates have gone down, quite a bit actually, since the early 1990's, but because a hot blond cheerleader who was raped and murdered makes better TV, that is embellished. "Reality" as we see it on the news no longer accurately reflects what is actually happening in this country.

And if you don't mind, try to hold back the condescention a little bit. You don't live in "the real world" any more than the rest of us do, if by that phrase you refer to what is reported on the news. In fact, the disparaging remarks you open yourself to by admitting that you believe that what you see on the news actually is the way the world is, could fill a thesaurus.

 

I wasnt being condesending.. the internet is terrible at conveying emotion.
This is what I live with, I dont know about you. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20070605_Phila__leads_big_cities_in_murder_rate.html

 

No, you don't. So don't assume the rest of the world is just like the worst parts of Philadelphia.

 

Well...

Where to start, really? I dont see how this guy, while an argumentative bafoon, appeared to have a gun. Before tasers, there were guns and batons, sometimes spray. Spray isnt near as effective when not in the eyes, so that would have left a baton, or gun.

What if taser wasn't available to him? Batons are non lethal....but would that have been warranted? Its really the same idea. If a police officer is afraid to grab someone, because he might have a gun, that is a problem, as he cannot function properly to do his job.

Jeez, I mean, what comes after that? You yell at an officer, and get tasered, or shot? Its going too far. We have the right to disagree, but if we are to get tasered, or shot for it, what liberties do we have left?

 

Ok, Im done.

Im not trying to start a fight here.

 

Thanks for posting the link to Philly statistics, Dyamond. It is always good to have in mind how life is for other people around the globe. Thankfully some of us don't have to live under that shadow on a regular basis

 

I'm not fighting, friend. You of all should know that

 

And here are the results of the investigation...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22047054/

 

Yeah, no kidding.

I guess lying was considered ok, too.

Thats the part that bothers me the most.

 

No wonder kids today struggle to be accountable for their wrong doings when cops are showing them exactly how to do just that...more than the comment was inappropriate dude!

 

its all fun and games until someone get tazzed..

 

Regarding type of force used in the Massey taser incident:

Col. Lance Davenport of the Utah State Highway Patrol (who was joined by Scott Duncan, commissioner of the UHP's parent agency, the Utah Department of Public Safety at a news conference), spoke about Massey being tased by Utah State Highway Patrol Trooper Jon Gardner.

Col. Lance Davenport said:

"We found that Trooper Gardner's actions were lawful and reasonable under the circumstances,"

The investigation was conducted by officials in the "Department of Public Safety", which oversees the highway patrol.

These officials have also asked the "Utah Attorney General's Office" to review the case to determine if laws were broken.

The issue at hand is type of force used. It becomes semantics when you discuss “no warning” of taser use, given Massey was well aware it was pointed at him, followed by his action of proceeding to walk away regardless.

In any case, there will be further official investigations which will cover the issue of “force used”, if any laws were broken, along with other concerns relayed by Massey.

 

Any other decision would have totally amazed me.
Thank you LS for the info.

 

Just caught a scroll bottom of tv where cop tased 10 year old, can't find any specifics at the moment.
Did see something where in Scotland they're trying to recall tasers. Sounds like a good idea!

 

I'll take the original thread example and raise it you by a 0-40 second tazer

http://www.break.com/index/driver-gets-tazed-for-being-slow1.html

 

I agree with you but for totally cynical reasons.

A board of inquiry made up of law officers, finding another law officer guilty of misuse of force would have been like the see Bush getting on TV and admitting that he wagged the dog.

 

The theme of power and corruption is eternal.

Therefore, those who uphold the law should be held to the highest standards of the law.

There's NO excuse for any of these officers.

 

I have no sympathies towards any one whether in a legal arena or any officer of the law who acts contrary to their code of conduct or breaks the law because there is no excuse for such behaviour, particular for being in those positions.

In this Massey case, they are following correct procedures for unbiased investigations.

I have seen first hand processes for internal investigations when an officer's conduct is questioned. It goes through immediate police supervisor investigation before being reported and followed up by another police investigation by the Local Area Commander (similar level to that of Col. Lance Davenport's) which is a tough one, much tougher, than when dealing with a member of the public - because there is so much at stake. It then goes through an overseeing agency (similar to the "Department of Public Safety") which is a correct process to eliminate any bias whether positive or negative.

Here also, when serious doubt is cast, then it becomes a Commissioner's Inquiry, which is similar to but on a bigger scale than having the Massey case passed to the District Attorney's Office. (This has occurred in the past in Sydney when there were reports of police corruption.)

I believe the above steps have been/are being applied. So proper legal procedures and processes are being applied in the Massey case...that is, outside and unbiased agencies are performing investigations with escalating checkpoints.

 

Another incident, different outcome.

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=57e9a2a3-0818-45be-988f-f57d6ab9df56

 

I am in 100% agreement.
Tasers have given sadistic cops a new weapon to cause pain without permanent injury. There should be a THOROUGH mental examination before allowing anyone to have control of the amount of power that police officers have.
There are too many authenticated cases of the misuse of their power.

 

I just think that, in order to keep being a cop in any form, one should HAVE to watch at least six hours of Andy Griffith Show reruns a week.
The man never carried a gun, never beat anyone down, handled every problem, and nobody got hurt or screwed over that didn't need to be.

 

The only unbiased way of doing this investigation would be a third party group doing it, not affiliated with the police.

There can never be a truly unbiased investigation when a group investigates one of their own.

 

How is the Attorney General's Department affiliated with the police when it comes to investigations? Yes, they'll receive prior investigative reports/information, however, the AGD is a separate investigative agency with their own legal process.

When it comes to complaints, then if you look within your own processes on your part of the world, you will find there will always be an overseeing agency (in the Massey case it is "Department of Public Safety"). If you consider such an investigation "biased", then there is a problem that needs to be escalated. The public should not remain mute, but rather seek out an Inquiry if under such suspicions.

Here, any such investigations suspected of being "biased" go through an "Inquiry" which most certainly are not biased, given those selected for the Board of Inquiry. To say "bias", is saying that all police and all investigating agencies are corrupt. You would have to justify that. Only suspecting all and everyone is corrupt is insufficient.

I have confidence in our processes whenever corruption has been suspected (which you are alluding to).

I've known of some corrupt police in my travels, and once corruption is suspected, no one would want to be in the suspects' shoes...because it isn't only the public they have to respond to, but also within their ranks of those police who maintain integrity of their office, whose standing is also being "tarnished by the same brush" because they wear a badge.

Shame that you have such a lack of faith in your own police and legal system...because then you have no where to turn to in good faith. No way to live in my opinion.

 

Maybe you read something I didn't, but I watched a pre-recorded interview with Massey and part of that interview was a spokesman for the PD. The internal investigation was then being handled by the department internally, through IA and whatever other channels they use.

Shame that I have a lack of faith in our own police--the woman with the child in her arms being tasered...a local police department here recently had the police chief fired for corruption....I have plenty of reasons not to have faith in the police.

Do they generally do a good job? Sure. Are they prone to corruption and illegal activities, too? You betcha.

It would be more of a shame if I did not question their loyalty, integrity and the ability do whats right. Instead I should have blind faith?

No thanks.

 

They have earned that lack of faith many times in my area.

I agree! There is a saying here that goes, "Every vote counts." But no matter who ends up in office here, the same old stuff continues on.

 

Not seen "pre-recorded interview" you refer to re Massey...I only focused on investigative processes. Initial internal investigations are normal procedures, and if/when required, will continue escalating as in Massey case now going to Attorney General's Department.

Police are people, so there are good and and bad cops. Don't know about either of the stories you've noted, nor of circumstances/situations/charges/outcomes to comment. However, Police Chief being fired showed a process in place that led to him being fired.

Already noted in my previous post when I stated:
"I've known of some corrupt police in my travels, and once corruption is suspected, no one would want to be in the suspects' shoes...because it isn't only the public they have to respond to, but also within their ranks of those police who maintain integrity of their office, whose standing is also being 'tarnished by the same brush' because they wear a badge."

Whenever there is any question as to what you noted: "loyalty, integrity and the ability do what's right", then that is when processes kick in. As I have stated in another post: "I have no sympathies towards anyone whether in the legal arena or an officer of the law who acts contrary to their code of conduct or breaks the law..."

It isn't a matter of "blind faith", it is a matter of understanding that there are escalating processes in place. I too am an "unbelieving Thomas"...that's why I go through the correct procedures and escalating processes to maintain the confidence I have in the legal system which have ongoing checks. No one is exempt when it comes to doing what is right.

 

Whether the "process" kicks in or not, is whether the person gets caught and how high up the ladder the corruption goes. Its no different than the cop who recently was displayed on youtube caught by the civie's dashcam...

He was making things up as he went, and even threatened to make up things to arrest the guy on...


I wish I could find the video, but lets face it--he would have never been caught if someone didn't trust the police. That, and without the youtube proof, nobody would have believed the civie, nor would there have been an investigation.

There is something wrong with that picture, IMO.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vMllB-ELrTI

There are three parts, actually. This is part 1.

 

True...there are instances where things go "hidden"...and applauded when officers of the law caught out acting contrary to the code...The down side here is, casting such a shadow of a doubt, that there really are more good people representing the law/legal system than bad. (I can tell you some "good" lawyers jokes...need to keep a sense of humour...now back to the topic).

Re your "YouTube" video...hope that cop got his just desserts because he makes every other good cop look bad.

 

The higher up the ladder, the more prone of getting caught. Bigger chance of getting caught than that cop you posted re "YouTube" video.

If you were aware of the checks in place nowadays and the level of security that kicks in as one moves "up the ladder", than you would understand how more difficult it becomes to maintain hidden corruption. Although one may think that they are getting away with it for some time, they are not aware that they are on surveillance (some times for years depending on the type/level of the activity), in order for the capture of all of those involved.

 

Seems to me that most police officers place a great deal of value on their title/prestige.

Every example posted here, the officer gets terribly upset when he gets an answer any less cooperative than, "Yes, sir", or "No, sir".

Once, my friend and I got pulled over because I had went through an intersection a little too closely to the officers arrival AT the intersection. Guess it made him uncomfortable.

That in itself was fine, don't want reckless or drunk drivers on the road. (Although, in my defense, it wasn't even as bad as being cut off. He wasn't in danger, nor did he even have to hit his brakes) I can tolerate this stop; it wasn't the best bit of driving I had ever done.

It started off as a routine traffic stop. I was trying to be polite and cooperative. I addressed him as sir, and answered his questions honestly.

Then he noticed that my friend had a pack of rolling papers. He asked if it was ours, and we told him that it was.

This is when he asked to search my car.

I'm still trying to be polite and cooperative, and since I had nothing to hide, I let him. (I later realize that he had no justifiable cause, and had to ask permission, and I was within my rights to deny him)

We are now standing outside, in the middle of January, FREEZING. The cop looks through some groceries in my back seat, and found a box full of sandwich bags. This really set him off.

At this point, he's insisting that I have drugs, and that the sandwich bags are proof that I'm a dealer. ("I know what these are for" he said) He proceeds to search my car for upwards of 40 minutes. In the end, he finds nothing.

This is when the scare tactics started. He started asking us who we got our drugs from, that if we didn't give him a name, we'd go to jail. At one point, he was so frustrated that he threatened to "come after me" if my "drug use" lead to the harm of any of his family.

We had nothing to give him, and I guess he gave up on his idle threats, and we went along on our merry way. (Traffic stop completely forgotten, btw)

Now I wonder: what if I had put up some resistance? What kind of crap would this guy have tried? I've resolved to try to know and exercise my rights in the future. It seems to me that the people getting tasered here are of the same mindset. They aren't necessarily endangering the officer, but they are trying to keep the officer from walking all over them.

Massey was SCREAMING for his miranda rights to be read to him. (And when the taser was pulled, he was baffled "What are you doing?")
The guy in Adryn's link was questioning why him parking where he had made him a suspect of car theft. Both responses infuriated the police officers.

Just because you have a badge does not make you any better than I am. If you abuse me while I try to defend my rights, I am going to do my best to make sure you get nailed to the wall. I think that's what should happen with these cops.

 

Personally I think the advent of a dash cam (and other similar surveillance) is a marvelous development, as it is a truly impartial witness, with no ax to grind. Might be a market for a simple version of something like that, that can store up to the last 12 hours it records, with an option to hold the last hour or more at the push of a button. No moving parts, just solid state with RAM.

I read an author once who made the argument that when an invention or development is brand new it is used by governments against the people, when it becomes completely available the tables get turned. Guns and computers come to mind, now surveillance cameras?

There is a reason police have strict limits placed on law enforcements powers. As a class they (police) chaff under these restrictions and try to expand their "rights". Americans and other countries would do well to keep a close eye on all law enforcement as well as our politicians, the number of laws passed for our own good seems to be growing exponentially. I don't think our prisons can take many more people. The simple fact is, the United States has much less freedom than it did 20 years ago, I don't like to think where the trends could end. From what I can tell this seems to be global, trust is not really a good idea at this point.

 

OK, picture this.
I walked to a local fast food place tonight, went inside and ate. I was there for a good 30 minutes. When I left, I started walking the 3 blocks back to my house. A cop drove past me, just as I left the property.
I walked through a large K-Mart parking lot, got to the other side (nearly a block from where I ate). The same cop pulled up and asked me for ID. He told me I matched the description of a shop lifter, who had stole a pack of razors from a local chain grocery store, which is nearly a 1/2 mile away, on the other side of a very busy 4 lane street, and near several apt buildings and residential property.
He asked me where I had been, asked me where I was coming from, what I had ate, if I had any razors on me, searched me for the razors, ran my name for warrants, and told me the reason he stopped me was I matched the description.
The description was: A 50-ish man, wearing a coat, jeans, and a hat.
He then made me get in the car, took me to the grocery store, had a witness look at me, and then let me go.

Why am I writing this?
1) I was stopped and questioned nearly a 1/2 mile from where the shop lifting took place. There were a hundred different residences, stores, and hiding places between there and where I was.
2) How did the cop know I was in my 50's? It was dark and I was not in the well light area of the lot. He didn't shine any lights on me, he came from behind both times.
3) The description was a complete nothing. It's winter. Nearly everyone wears a hat, coat, and jeans here. There was no color of coat or type of hat (ball cap, knit hat, derby?) Plus I wear glasses, they were not even in the description.
4) He could have stopped at the restaurant and asked the counter person if I had been in there.
5) He searched me and did not find anything nor was there any place that I could have dropped anything in that parking lot without it being seen.
6) I was not acting suspicious, nervous, or hurrying after his first pass.
7) He drove me 1/2 mile away from where I was and I was not taken back to where I was picked up.

In the mean time the perpetrator of this dastardly crime was probably already in house shaving.

I won't call this a misuse of power, but it was pretty sloppy and poor police work.
The only thing that kept me from sounding off was this taser thread.

 

Admittedly, I have a "them/Us" mentality - but it was beaten into me. I used to be a "good little Republican" who believed in wide eyed wonder when they told us that "The policeman is yourfriend.
I was also involved heavily in politics at the Statehouse level - it sickened me.
Impartial investigation? Poop, I say - one government agency will back up another - even when in the wrong - unless it becomes big enough for the press to get involved.
Besides, how can anyone, anywhere be impartial? Not happening - it is perfectly natural for people to make "judgement calls" on their own biases, learned through their own life experience - we all have preferences and prejudices, sensible or not, ingrained in our psyche. No such thing as impartiality. We even elect judges because we believe that their personal biases are similar to our own.

BTW, I've found a solution for the base issue in this thread - I do not speed any more, therefore have far less officer/peon contact and am a lot happier camper with a lot fewer lumps on my head and a lot more cash to do what I deem to be "good" with. Lesson learned? No - I'm still me, I've just taken to "schnorkelling" instead of running on the surface and asking to be torpedoed.

Pretty cool, the passion that threads like this one have brought out in us - makes for a good read and sort of stratifies the membership - not entirely a bad thing!
Blessings,
P.O.S.

 

I cant say I agree..

When my purse was stolen about two years ago, I was on my way to church and when I got there, I borrowed someones phone (cuz the guy stole mine rolleyes) and called the police.. the only description I could give them was that he was wearing a black hoodie/top and blue jeans because all I saw was the back of him while chasing him up an alley.

When the police arrived they said they had some people they wanted me to look at… a few rather distant blocks away (and in the opposite direction of which way the guy ran) the officer drove me around to see if I recognized any of the few of the people they had stopped. After looking at about the backs of 5 different people, none of them were the one. About a ½ hr later the cop showed up at my church again stating he had one more person for me to look at and this time it was the guy who did it.

See the people that the cops stopped in my benefit were much like you… they were stopped not near the scene of the crime, wearing the very general description I gave them and had no reason for suspicion but had they not stopped these people, the guy who actually did it might have gotten away!

Im not trying to downplay what happened to you in anyway, Im sure it was really annoying and bothersome. Im just saying I’ve seen this from the other side of the fence.

 

Bill Marsden wrote:"I don't think our prisons can take many more people. The simple fact is, the United States has much less freedom than it did 20 years ago, I don't like to think where the trends could end. From what I can tell this seems to be global, trust is not really a good idea at this point."

Agreed in full. The U.S. has the highest percentage of it's male population currently incarcerated of any developed nation on Earth.
Marion County, Florida being a prime example - one county, well over 10K inmate capacity when the new jail annex is finished soon. Washington County, Iowa is building a $5 million dollar jail - in a town of 7K people, county of 14K........... DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
This is only opinion on my part, but I believe that at least some of the reason is that they want to run us ALL "through the system", have our I.D.'s, fingerprints, DNA, so their job will be easier in future and also as a reminding "thumb on our heads".
I always tell them that I am an adult and I do not NEED armed men to make sure that I toe their line.
P.O.S.

 

Musksnipe is one of "the usual suspects"! HAHA! (I only laugh because I seem to be one, too - my condolences, Bro!).
P.O.S.

 

@ Dyamond I know what you are saying and I am glad that they can be thorough at times but... they got a good enough look to know the guy was in his fifties, but couldn't see the color of his coat? And I had no razors on me, plus an alibi just around the corner.
Edit: And what if I had resembled this guy, I would have been sitting in jail, because the cop didn't bother to check that I had been in the restaurant.

 

That does seem ridiculous that they know his age but not something as simple as the color of his coat?

With the razors.. they could have been thrown away in a trash can somewhere like my purse was before they caught this guy and not to mention I found out later on he was trying to use my debit card in a store, so he could have been like - alibi "I was in marshalls" and the employees would have maybe agreed because he was there! When I worked in retail I rarely paid attention to who came in my store at what time... all I knew was that they were there or not.

Crazy I know.