Don't call your Teddy Bear Muhammed !!

This world has gone stark raving MAD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7119399.stm

 

that's just craziness...what's this world coming to?!?!?!

 

Good Grief

 

Hmmm, time we stopped giving that country so much aid money I think.

 

Even fanaticism rearing its' head over the naming over the 7yo's school class's teddy bear. Unbelievable. Bazza

 

rolleyes

I don't get it every Muslim man and his brother is called Mohamed why not a teddy bear?

 

I got a Teddybear that i called Jesus...:major

Wonder if I'll be crucified for blasphemy??? rolleyes

Anyway, I just don't understand getting that bent over something like that.... :confused

 

This is what I think about political correctness. (3.05 MB Mp3)

http://www.jiggyjigg.com/upload/files/9/Political%20Correctness.mp3

 

Will Ali have to go back to Clay? rolleyes

 

Allah Dangit! (yeah, I stole that one...) But you can name a drooling thing Mahammed, and you don't know what religion he/she will live there life with?

:confused

E

 

They take their religion very seriously in Sudan you might say they still live in the dark ages.

they still stone women to death for adultery so maybe Gillian Gibbons got off lightly all be it crazy.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17304

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5364/43767292lk1.jpg

there is a video of this on U Tube but i did not think it appropriate to post it

 

Good idea

 

Update on the situation, which has escalated!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm

 

As i said in my post maybe she got off lightly and i thought that the clerics would try to stir things up.

the UK is not popular in the middle east because it stands with America so this was inevitable that they would demand a tougher sentence.

 

That is just crazy. Seems sometimes the world is just spinning the wrong way. I do always wonder, where do they get all those cool looking protest banners on such short notice...

E

 

http://bestsmileys.com/whipping/2.gif

I think a good scourging will curb your blasphemy! LOL

 

Unfortunately that fact has been brushed under the carpet (maybe their magic carpets, or is that another country )

 

True. Gibbons didn't go out to insult Islam. The matter should have been dealt with by the school.

However, according to Islamic Law, Gibbon’s charge of blasphemy, inciting hatred and insulting Islam in Sudan for naming a class teddy bear Mohamed, is a crime on the statute book of Sudan, which is usually synonymous with the rejection of one's religion (apostasy).

But Gibbons, is not a Muslim, so she shouldn’t be charged with apostasy, which in some countries carries the death penalty.

Given the Northern and Southern regions of the country have different approaches to religions, the charges brought against Gibbons are based on a Sunnah (act or saying of the prophet) rather than a verse of the Koran. The Sharia, implemented in Northern Sudan, is made up of the Koran and the Sunnah.

Being in the Northern region, the exact punishment for someone who insults Allah or Muhammad is not set out in Sharia, but is decided by individual judges in each case. Consequently, Gibbons is the victim of a particularly harsh interpretation of the Blasphemy law.

In another Islamic country the case may have been dismissed.

 

But there are many Islamic people named Muhammed... I am confused.

E

 

I'm not technically familiar with Islamic Laws so can only offer an opinion here because the laws can vary from country to country as well as region to region (as shown with this Gibbons case). So keep this in mind while reading my response.

Mohammed was a prophet of God - and in some places (dependent on their laws), there is a belief that there is an assurance of Heaven if parents name their children "Mohammed." It can also be a manner of honouring the Muslim Prophet or a way to show a person is linked to the Muslim religion.

Using the name in this manner is a way of honouring it which is different to giving the name to an inanimate object.

 

This incident strikes be as both made up and political, or is that the same thing. It'll backfire in the end, but I hope that woman survives it.

 

I reckon there is more to it than that.

Laws as you are aware, vary in different countries/States/regions...same applies with Islamic laws, so this adds to the complexities re Gibbons case.

Gibbons, imho made a huge cultural blunder - though unintentional, (one should really sus up on cultural requirements and taboos when visiting countries - particularly Middle/Eastern countries nowadays).

In addition, given the fact that the complainant who initially reported it, took it a step further than (what I think) was necessary...a simple word of explanation to Gibbons (by the School) as to why naming the teddy bear was inappropriate could have immediately resolved and saved the situation...rather than reporting her (to the edu dept).

Once the s**t hit the fan, there will always be those who through simple ignorance and/or religious fanatics and/or those who dislike Westerners for whatever reason to grab an incident by screaming the loudest and turning such an incident into a political one.

Much relies on those Sudan judges considering the matter...hopefully they'll listen to other Islamic leaders and heads who are condemning the harshness of those charges.

 

I have to disagree a bit. We in the west (and western derivatives) tend to take the rule of law for granted. In most of the 3rd world countries it's the exception. All it takes is one person in power to decide something, then tell the courts how to rule.

 

Not quite how it works because in most countries they have the Constitution as well as certain rules and laws that fall under International law which also includes Human Rights laws, (as does your country, mine and in Sudan).

As for Sudan, laws still hadn't been implemented in the Northern Region of Sudan to line up with the Southern Region which is why in Gibbons case, it is now up to those judges.

Gibbons' matter hangs on interpretation of the law in the Northern Region...so it won't be as you say a matter of "one person in power to decide something, then tell the courts how to rule".

Those judges have a legal obligation to the court regardless of what input they get from Islamic leaders be it negative or positive against Gibbons - they will have to make it a legal decision in the end and the decision must be backed up by the letter of the law.

Islamic leaders condemning the harsh charges against Gibbons are putting arguments that Gibbons is not a Muslim, so her act (blunder of naming) could not be considered apostasy. That argument applies a good interpretation of the law and if successful can be a saving grace, (that's why in my earlier post I stated that I hope judges listen).

It is all about interpretation of the law for Gibbon's charges.

 

Looks like she got pardoned. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_af/sudan_british_teacher

Sad to know the teddy bear is going to hell...

E

 

While out Xmas shopping in Glasgow, there was a guy selling Muhammed Teddy Bears There was a queue of around 20 people and I heard the guy saying he couldn't get enough of them to satisfy demand.
He had sold over 300 every day for the last 2 days.

As I said in the original post, its a Mad world we live in.

 

Thanks for that update Eric.

For it to have gone to the process level of Sudan's President for a pardon, shows the extent and seriousness of the crime considered by the Sudanese, and their strict interpretation of the law, (ie they would not have taken into consideration the fact that she was not Muslim).

Facts in the plea put forward on Gibbons behalf which stressed Gibbons had not intended to offend anyone, and that she had great respect for Islam, plus positive input from Muslim scholars, would have strengthened the plea.

It was good to see representatives who were Islamic putting forward the plea on her behalf.

Glad that is over for her now.

 

I read the same article as Fred, this part is outrageous -

(The teacher's conviction under Sudan's Islamic Sharia law shocked Britons and many Muslims worldwide. It also inflamed passions among many Sudanese, some of whom called for her execution.) WOW, huh?
Very true about studying
up before visiting a foreign country.
No telling what they might lop off

 

Insane . . .

 

Actually, in Islam, INTENT is EVERYTHING. So in order to have committed a crime, she had to have INTENDED it as an insult.

And she did not name the teddy bear Muhammed. The CHILDREN (most of whom were muslim, and had relatives named Muhammed) chose the name. SO even by their own laws, she did ntohing wrong.

It's another case of riling up anti-western sentiment, so they can justify terrorist acts, against the very nations funding them.

ITA that we and Britain need to cut off aid to any nation that supports terrorism against us. We are paying for those bullets.

 

So if I don't intend to kill someone, but just happen to, I didnt commit a crime?

 

Just heard on our news, that she is on her way home. :major :cool Bazza

 

You devil's advocate you. Definitely affects your sentence, and what you're convicted of. If the other person did something stupid, and you didn't do anything basically wrong (like driving drunk) you might even get off.

But then, you knew this already.

Just because a country has a constitution doesn't mean they'll follow it. Currently Russia comes to mind, and I wouldn't consider them 3rd world. Zimbabwe is another example, and they definitely have become 3rd world in the last 10 years.

I tend to believe she was pardoned because of lack of faith in their courts.

 

jennabobenna, I don't follow some of your points made in your post:

Re intent: when a law has been broken, there is a process which I have over simplified here with just some steps as an example:

• first thing considered is what law was broken
• next, how the law was broken
• and if a criminal offence, then what type of criminal law does it fall under
• Upon identifying the law, what level of the offence
• then checking what other laws need to be considered
• interpretation of the applicable law(s)

Intent has to be proven.

"Muslim scholars generally agree that intent is a key factor in determining if someone has violated Islamic rules against insulting the prophet."* So I would go by what a Muslim scholar says rather than take in your above comment.

As a teacher, responsibility fell squarely on her shoulders. She allowed the use of the name of a school teddy bear. So although she did not intend to offend anyone and had great respect for Islam, what she did was wrong according to the Islamic law applicable to that region.

It already has been noted that "the case was caught up in the ideology that al-Bashir's Islamic regime has long instilled in Sudan, a mix of anti-colonialism, religious fundamentalism and a sense that the West is besieging Islam."*

So tread softly here. The case was an "unfortunate misunderstanding"* and during exchanges, it was stressed that Britain respected Islam.


* Denotes that quotes taken from this URL:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071203/ap_on_re_af/sudan_british_teacher

 

The pardon was done more along a legal process of a plea...similar to what is done in the USA when getting a Governor's pardon...and not due to a lack of faith in Sudanese courts.

 

Brilliant. I wonder if there are any on ebay.

Yes !

Here's one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUDAN-TEDDY-B...goryZ117QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and another - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Muhammed-the-...goryZ117QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

and yet another - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Muhammed-Tedd...goryZ117QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

another one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Muhammad-Free...goryZ367QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD7VQQcmdZViewItem