Something I don't understand.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Aimee Wilbury, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. Aimee Wilbury

    Aimee Wilbury Staff Sergeant

    I find it strange when real n00bs (not even a wannabe) who don't know the difference between RAM or a hard drive call me a noob because I made a mistake trying to help them! (I'm hoping to go towards an A+ Certification, BTW.)

    For example, I gave someone a command prompt that was supposed to delete a corrupted file, but due to OS differences, it ended up tripling the file. I'm not a tech support, and I did say ahead of time it may not work! (This is the kind of person who would pay a tech $200 to remove a virus.) Ironically, on March 31st, they asked me how to prevent Conficker. (I said not to worry, make sure the Windows Updates and anti-virus is up to date, use common sense and not IE.)

    Then there's the ones who think they're so much better than me as they tend to be more right-brained and creative, and they say I'm wasting my life on a hunk of plastic. (My response: "Nope! I'm wasting my life on a hunk of silicon.")

    Have you ever had trouble with these types of people?
     
    Aimee Wilbury, Apr 10, 2009
    #1
  2. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Yes :)


    Sadly at times some wish you to do all the work for them, they wont meet you half way in helping you help them, the hardest thing is with online help and support is you have NO idea if they actually followed your advise to the letter!

    Many will not actually believe what you say and I see multiple posts from spame user on a variety of forums, some ask a question than say your wrong..... well why post the question in the first place, not as if they actully knew the answer themselves, hence posting a question.

    Difficult business is PC tech support, glad I dont do it as my main job, I'd have less hair than I do now :(

    Conficker is one that would be minimised if users didnt have this bugbear against hating everything Microsoft, and UPDATE their Windows version!!!!! Patch was out last October so no excuse.
     
    DavidGP, Apr 10, 2009
    #2
  3. augiedoggie

    augiedoggie The Canadian Loon - LocoAugie (R.I.P. 2012)

    LOL yes, I just ignore these types as they are jerks, even if they do know their stuff. I'm not a tech but self-taught and feel comfortable posting these days but there are posts which I won't touch if I'm not reasonably sure of the answer even if I have an idea. There's a lot of better folks on here than me and I read more than I post.;)
     
    augiedoggie, Apr 10, 2009
    #3
  4. Aimee Wilbury

    Aimee Wilbury Staff Sergeant

    Whenever I post for help, I try to say everything I've tried, but sometimes I forget.

    I'm self-taught to. Been using computer since I was 5, I'm now 16 (but will be 17 this year).

    I don't like Windows Update rebooting my computer, so I have it just notify me, I do it about once a week or so unless it's very important. Then there's those who send out those chain mails about this virus which will apparently make your computer burst into flames when you open an email. Despite debunking all of them, I still get them....

    And of course there's my mom. I manually removed half-a-dozen viruses from her computer, until I finally switched her to Firefox. For a while I was considering installing Linux on her computer but I decided not to. And this is funny -- One time I had a big pile of CDs on my desk as I was planning to do a fresh install of Windows as mine was a huge mess. So my mom comes by and I tell her. She goes, "Oh, you must have a virus, you don't use Norton like me." Go figures.

    And one time she accused me of infecting her computer as I played the old "frozen desktop" trick on her (take a screenshot of the desktop, use as wallpaper and hide all the icons.) And she accused me of breaking her mouse until she found the little piece of tape on the bottom of it, covering the light....
     
    Aimee Wilbury, Apr 10, 2009
    #4
  5. KingSteve

    KingSteve MajorGeek

    Something ive learned as a network admin/IT helpdesk is people who dont use a computer for more than internet access probably arent going to know as much as someone who studies computers. these are not stupid people, they just dont study computers. I dont waste my time learning accounting, and the accountant doesnt waste time learning how to back up exchange.
    youre talking about your own mom like she is supposed to know what you know about computers. quite obviously, she isnt going to know the tricks you played on her. ive also had trouble with people who know a little bit about computers; enough to get in trouble and only think they know a solution to a problem they may have inadvertently caused. all the while causing me more headaches trying to undo their damage.
     
    KingSteve, Apr 10, 2009
    #5
  6. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Superb stuff, self taught is a great way to enter into computing but also do read up on the tech stuff for the background info on what does what and how and why! very easy to Google answers, but also crucial to know the followups in whats gone wrong and why, some useful areas for this and do have loads of caffiene and cakes handy!

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/default.aspx
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/aa905375.aspx (for Office apps)
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/default.aspx (Mark russinovich who writes alot here, mainly on Vista and Windows 7 is a tech genius)
    http://windowsteamblog.com/ (alot on tidbits from the various teams on tips and new things)
    http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/ (dev team on Windows 7 project, actually a good OS even in its current beta form, running it on 2 PCs at present in x64 versions, no major issues and can use it as a daily PC, actually I am posting this from Windows 7 PC on IE8)



    Superb :)


    As Steve mentions, many folk that use PCs just surf the net and use office, they want the PC to work 100% of the time, but sadly though lack of education on PC things (not their fault) they get tangled up with issues and blame Windows for this, when its likely in most cases user error, in say installing too many Antivirus applications or installing wrong version software for OS version, it happens and not their fault, its just not every family has a tech guru to help them out.

    Which is where Majorgeeks excels in that we dont care what your level of knowledge is we are just plug away until we get to a solution (cannot always get a fix though as remote help is not as good as being infront of PC) and can tailor our responces with step by step and images to assist, so in a way we are in the collective helpers on this forum who all have some knowledge to give back, like your family tech guru.


    Education is the best thing to help especially family and friends with, teach them best practices for internet usage, best options for PC security and go slow with them, dont take control of the mouse but let them click the options with your help and guidance as I find many learn better, I have been teaching my 7 and 9yr old neices about computers and the net for years, they are both really good now on a PC and will be very good in years to come.


    Above all enjoy computing.
     
    DavidGP, Apr 10, 2009
    #6
  7. Aimee Wilbury

    Aimee Wilbury Staff Sergeant

    This is the ironic part -- my mom took a college course about computers! She's officially a graphic design, but she thinks that means she's an expert.
     
    Aimee Wilbury, Apr 10, 2009
    #7
  8. darlene1029

    darlene1029 A Grand Lady- R.I.P. 06/06/2012

    shhh, Mom's are ;)
     
    darlene1029, Apr 10, 2009
    #8
  9. Xcom46

    Xcom46 Guest

    I have a lot of understanding on xp i try to help others as much as i can but it's kinda hard to help them but for me like i would try and help and it's pain for me because i am not siting at there computer fixing it.lol i ant dum my self i no windows XP far too well but cant really help all that much.unless i am there at there computer.I really hate vista i tryed it for one day and hated it it takes way too much RAM.

    darlene1029
    my mom think shes an expert too lol:-D
     
    Xcom46, Apr 10, 2009
    #9
  10. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member


    That is by design and one that is very very misunderstood my many who and not being rude, dont have a grasp of the operating system and how it works to help you, XP is poor in memory managment as was the 9x versions, hence a raft of Memory Managment programs.

    Vista and more so Windows 7 (gonna love the comments on memory and Windows 7, when many get their hands on it) use as much ram as they can, for background tasks when your mostly idle, say surfing the net or typing up docs, but will hand it back when an app you load needs more ram, reason for using upto 50%+ of your ram, is that ram is fast and much faster than using the HDDs pagefile for times when more ram is needed, on average it tends to consume 30%+/- of what available ram you have installed.

    As the old tech saying goes "unused ram is wasted ram" and a good article on ram and memory managment here from Mark Russinovich

    One of my test PCs with 2GB ram and Windows 7 beta and how it manages ram usage, will be different in the final version as many bug and data collection tools will be removed, but it runs as quick as XP does even in this beta stage. Notice the Free ram ;) that will scare some :)


    http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4858/resource.jpg

    Personally I want it to use as much as possible for the reason ram is quicker than HDD and in this day and age of many starting to go x64 and being able to use 4GB+ of ram (which is reletively cheaper than it was in the early XP days) really does help some applications like Games, Photo editing, number crunching etc

    Vista if setup right is much much more stable than that of XP, its bad press seems to come from users installing it on hardware with no drivers for it and software that needed updating, both 3rd party developer issues in not keepoing upto speed, I did have it installed on my main PC from Nov 06 (got it first as was part of the beta testing team on it) and I never had to reinstall it again for any issues, so near2.5yrs without a re-install, not many could say that with XP and its RTM version, which also was critisised when it was released for having compatability issues, with software and drivers etc

    This article here was indicitive of the press and comments on XP at 6months from release.

    XP is a superb OS, but is growing old now and if you get a chance and have a spare hardware compatible PC, install the upcoming Release Candidate of Windows 7 and try it out.

    Again dont mean this to have a go at you or be rude, but more to educate as many just pickup on others comments on the likes of hate Vista or Microsoft without questioning the motives, which is something I dont understand at time, I know some dont like the new and maybe as I'm the early adopter type I learn to embrace change, but dont fear it.... control it :)



    This is the next step in computing and here now and superb to use, managed to play with one at Microsoft UK and built on Vista, and could bring computing to a more family friendly point.
     
    DavidGP, Apr 11, 2009
    #10
  11. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    to Aimee
    Don't EVER let it get you down.
    If they are so good themselves, they wouldn't be here for help.
    And everybody here, whether they admit to it or not, was a newbie. Nobody is born with the knowledge to do things.
    I may be good in one sector, but would hesitate to attempt some other type of problems.
    Just a matter of knowing your own limitations.
    Keep going for that certification.
     
    hrlow2, Apr 11, 2009
    #11
  12. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Superb post hrlow, indeed all very true.
     
    DavidGP, Apr 11, 2009
    #12
  13. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    Thanks Halo
    Means a lot coming from an Administrator.
     
    hrlow2, Apr 11, 2009
    #13
  14. Xcom46

    Xcom46 Guest

    Halo

    na your not being rude.

    But what is the deal with Vista not being able to not allow some program not to install.Or did they Fix that problem.
     
    Xcom46, Apr 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Aimee Wilbury

    Aimee Wilbury Staff Sergeant

    I was skeptical of Vista at first but now I like it, except some annoyances.

    My mom.... she seems to be stuck in the Windows 9x stage. She still looks for options in the same places they would be in 9x, even after I repeatedly showed her where it is. (e.g. MS-DOS Prompt -- Command Prompt) And when I first got my computer, I showed her ablout 5x that they renamed Add/Remove Programs yet she was still looking for it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
    Aimee Wilbury, Apr 11, 2009
    #15
  16. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi

    You'd have to give me an example, but the issue of some applications not installing was not fully a Microsoft/Windows issue, but the developers of those applications not updating their applications to be compatible with the increased OS security, Vista had increased the sceurity to the main kernel and added UAC to protect users, developers where slower to re-program their applications.

    Increased security in Vista came about by users of XP wanting more OS security from malware etc, so the offset is many areas of the OS couldnt be accessed by applications as they became used to the less than secure OS of XP. Its a your dammed if you increase security and dammed if you dont! no easy middle ground and Windows 7 has a better UAC, but still will if 3rd party developers odnt get on board and udpate their apps, suffer from some apps not installing, happens to many new OSes.

    Not personally found many applications that dont install straight off or by using compatability, its likely that some still are reading the early blog or forum posts on the Vista betas and non installing applicatons, but again that was a beta and these applications where not updated by the 3rd parties, but these stories never die and become ingrained as fact, when things change.
     
    DavidGP, Apr 11, 2009
    #16
  17. the mekanic

    the mekanic Major Mekanical Geek

    I'll tell you what Aimee, I've been refurbishing old PCs for a long time. I'm great with hardware, identifying a computer's upgrade potential, and hunting down the lowest prices for upgrades. Stretching a dollar is one of my strong points. However, like everyone else, I don't know everything. There are posts I read, and won't touch because I don't have a solution that I would be confident relaying. However, I do keep my eye on the posts that have info I'd like to know more about. I'd like to better at software, and I'm working on just that.

    I absolutely agree with Halo, and I have a spare HDD that I run W7 on, and it's almost mesmerizing how it takes advantage of what your system is capable of. Vista had some very annoying idiosyncrasies, but it is a very solid, stable OS. It just needs to be configured properly. (BTW: I'd really like to see them add "Classic View" to Disk Defrag.)

    At least 3/4 of the time, I discover that the problem isn't the PC, the hardware, or the software, it's that damn PEBKAC again!

    Casual users can be so quick to blame an inanimate thing when they don't have full cognition of the things they are doing which allow for malfeasance to be perpetrated upon them. It's just easier to blame someone or something else!

    It's so much fun when someone has trouble shutting down their browser, and blaming you for the problem because you worked on the PC, and all you do is show up and install an ActiveX control to run WMP in a browser! :-D

    So, don't let it get you down, it's not going to stop anytime soon... :)


    Just sit back and giggle, just don't revel, that's kinda' rude! :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
    the mekanic, Apr 11, 2009
    #17
  18. red death68

    red death68 Command Sergeant Major

    o ya sounds like my old school it person
     
    red death68, Apr 13, 2009
    #18
  19. ~Huskies~

    ~Huskies~ Private E-2

    Hi Aimee...I'm sure your mom is very proud of you that you taught yourself how to use the computer. I'm also sure there are many things you know about the computer that your mom does not:-o.

    But instead of playing tricks on her by taking a screenshot of the desktop and using as her wallpaper and hiding the icons. Why don't you help her as Halo suggested. As someone said 'most' people who use a laptop or PC more than likely use it for surfing the net or work (that may not have anything to do with computers).

    I'm sure there are a number of things that your mom can and has taught you. But as a teenager you are probably invincible (if you are anything like my 17yr old son...who thinks he knows everything). What you may not know is, it can be very frustrating as an adult to try something new (computers & their operating systems) and not know where to start or what to do next:-o. I'm not sure how old your mom is but in 1992 computers were nothing like they are now and that was only 17yrs ago:(.

    I think this is the best advice that has been given. Sometimes we have to step outside of our self and walk in the other persons shoes for 5mins or so.

    Again, great advice Halo;)

    And of course your mom is going to think she's an expert because she remembers what you told her. whether or not she tells you that, just take it as a compliment because she's listening to you:p

    Again, be [FONT=&quot]Patience with her and share what you know. The more you tell her the prouder she is of you and what you have accomplished...trust me I know( I have one of you to);) [/FONT]
     
    ~Huskies~, Apr 14, 2009
    #19
  20. EscapeCat

    EscapeCat Private First Class

    I realize this sounds a bit like "kissing up," but I have to tell all of you who help (and try to help), that you're awesome. You really do deserve praise for the hard work you dedicate to helping us clean our computers when we get infected. I found this site through google, and I have to admit I was hesitant to download each program you guys had us download in the READ & RUN ME section, as I rarely download ANYTHING for fear of viruses. And what better way to infect a poor sap, than by pretending you're helping them, and then giving them more viruses. :hammer So with each program, I did a search to see that it was legit. :p It also was reassuring to see VBulletin as the forum, because to my knowledge, you have to pay for it...

    In any event, I really want to thank all of you for spending some of your down time here, helping people you've never met by sharing your expertise. So, really, for those of you who mentioned it can be hard because some people don't follow the rules to a "t" (I posted an inline log... :-o), or because they're downright ungrateful, know that there are MANY of us who are very grateful. Don't let others get you down. I bet your more appreciated than you know. ;)

    Oh, and I use Vista, and overall I have no real issues with it. I did have to get more RAM for it my laptop, but they went on sale and I got 2 GB for only $16.99 from newegg.com, so that was no biggie. Probably because I had so much stuff on my PC and it only had 1 GB when I got it.
     
    EscapeCat, Apr 14, 2009
    #20
  21. hrlow2

    hrlow2 MajorGeek

    to EscapeCat
    Kiss up,as you call it, all you want.
    Stuff like that is always good to hear. Nice to realize that people DO appreciate things in this life.
    For me, if I can help someone out of any kind of problem, it makes me feel as good as they feel.
    On behalf of everybody else here, Thanks for the words of praise.
     
    hrlow2, Apr 14, 2009
    #21
  22. dyamond

    dyamond Imelda Marcos of Majorgeeks

    Hey Aimee,

    I do run into those sort of people. There have been times when I would be arguing with someone and they kept telling me I was wrong until I SHOWED them I was right, they still wouldnt admit they were wrong. All I would get is a "oh... well..hmpf" and they'd walk away :-D

    Don't let em get ya down, keep doin what your doing.. cuz who do they come to for help? You ;) what your doing commendable, advancing yourself.. wanting to help others. Its part of the reason why I'm learning what Im learning (well that I am such a nerd, takin stuff apart, puttin it back together to see if I fixed it... I love anything electronicy :p)

    There is a wealth of information here, I cant tell you how much I've learned from this forum, just by reading. By no means, am I nearly as smart as half the people here but I know a little but of stuff.. I've fixed a few pc's.. My friends and family always ask me for help and it feels nice to help people :)

    Dont ever give up Aimee :cool
     
    dyamond, Apr 14, 2009
    #22
  23. dr.moriarty

    dr.moriarty Malware Super Sleuth Staff Member

    This post made my day...Thank You, EscapeCat.

    dr.m :major
     
    dr.moriarty, Apr 15, 2009
    #23

MajorGeeks.Com Menu

Downloads All In One Tweaks \ Android \ Anti-Malware \ Anti-Virus \ Appearance \ Backup \ Browsers \ CD\DVD\Blu-Ray \ Covert Ops \ Drive Utilities \ Drivers \ Graphics \ Internet Tools \ Multimedia \ Networking \ Office Tools \ PC Games \ System Tools \ Mac/Apple/Ipad Downloads

Other News: Top Downloads \ News (Tech) \ Off Base (Other Websites News) \ Way Off Base (Offbeat Stories and Pics)

Social: Facebook \ YouTube \ Twitter \ Tumblr \ Pintrest \ RSS Feeds