Because it's not a Corvette, you idiot...!

Warning: Computer Tech Support-inspired rant ahead.

Moderators: If this belongs in another forum, I apologize, and ask you to move it to the proper place. I posted it here because it's primarily a rant about things that drive me crazy at work, but if it needs to be in the Hardware forum or some other place, just let me know and I will post them in the proper forums in the future.


One of the very few things that gets under our skin at work, and really sets our teeth on edge, is the type of customer that refuses to accept that anyone else knows as much as they do about computers. Or about the technology in them. Or that they themselves might not know everything.

I talked to one of them this morning. Since I can't name names (I'd get fired) I will refer to him as "P", for "Punk-*** Idiot", since that's what he is. He knew when he made the phone call to Tech Support that the cause of his problems was the low-quality product that we had shipped him, and he was not going to let some ignorant call-center hack tell him otherwise.

Short background:

P bought four 1GB PC2-8500 modules of my company's gaming/over-clock line of RAM from Newegg about 18 months ago. They ran great for over a year, then they failed in the spectacular ways that only RAM can fail. Blue-screen crashes, registry corruption, reboot loops, the whole deal. Since it's been a year Newegg tells P to call the manufacturer, and he does. We replace them with four new 1GB PC2-8500 modules, because that's what the warranty policy says we will do. Less than a month later the four new ones fail, as spectacularly. P calls back, less than happy with my company.

We of course apologize and replace all the memory. Now, once again after less than a month, P calls back to complain because the third set of memory is failing as spectacularly as the other two did.

Now, I don't know about you, but this is the point where I would have called the motherboard manufacturer and started the conversation with "I think I have a bad motherboard. What's your warranty policy?" Not P. He knows his motherboard is good, the problem is that my company's memory is garbage.

I reply that some of the first four might have been bad, but there's no way he would receive three orders of bad memory in a row. Whatever is causing the spectacular crashes, it's not the RAM. Or rather, if it is the RAM, his motherboard has been systematically killing them, which by the way is not impossible. A bad DRAM voltage controller would do that. P tells me he knows that's not that case, and that our RAM is bad, and he knows this because the DDR2-800 parts he bought from a local store work fine.

No. No, no, no! Bad little punk! I will smack your head now for being stupid.

P did not like being told that the problem was most likely on his end, and that I'm not going to replace the "bad" RAM a fourth time since that wouldn't do anything to fix his problem. Clearly believing that I am stone-walling him for no other reason than to spite him, P mutters rude and condescending things, and soon thereafter the call ends.

P called back a few hours later, talked to my cube-neighbor R, and between the two of us, R and I were eventually able to figure out what was happening.

P has a motherboard with an AMD chipset, that was manufactured just as PC2-8500, a.k.a DDR2-1066 memory, hit the market. That means his motherboard supports it, but only with an AM2+ footprint CPU, and it's also the highest speed that the motherboard supports. P firmly believes that since the specifications say the board supports it, the crashes when he tries to run four modules at that speed are because of bad RAM.

Here's the problem with his reasoning: True DDR2-1066 is as a technology less than a year old. That means that neither the RAM companies, nor the motherboard manufacturers, have been able to stomp out all the issues with it yet. To add to this, an AMD motherboard doesn't have a northbridge, and the memory controller is on the CPU itself. Several AMD-based motherboards are actually quite incapable of running the memory at full speed if you populate the two slots next to the CPU. If you want to have RAM in all four slots, then the top speed falls from 1066MHz to 800MHz. This is the way that AMD processors have worked since the day they were invented.

P's first set of DDR2-1066 parts were so new to the market that they actually weren't true 1066MHz memory. They were the exact same chips as DDR2-800, and after installing you over-clocked them to 1066MHz, by setting the "stock" voltage and timings for the modules. They ran fine, because they were in fact DDR2-800 modules, so when the motherboard tried to clock them up to 1066MHz and was forced to halt at 933MHz due to limitations on the CPU, the modules happily ran just fine. They are built to over-clock, and they do it well, and to go from 800MHz to 933MHz on the right voltage and timings was a piece of cake for them.

The number 933MHz was by the way provided by P to R when he asked him to verify BIOS settings. As it turns out, it had been clearly visible to him in the BIOS all along.

The second and third batch on the other hand were true DDR2-1066 memory, chips built to run at 1066MHz, and though AMD has great margins clocking upwards (Phenom Black anyone?), those motherboards do not like clocking down, and frankly neither does our memory. Matter of fact, they tend to hate it. So when the memory that wanted to run at 1066MHz was forced to run at only 933MHz, it tripped over its own feet and crashed into a blue-screen.

It took R half an hour to talk P into accepting 800MHz memory on a replacement order, and he was only able to do it by finally spelling out to P that after three RMAs, we're not going to send him the same thing again because it's obvious that his motherboard can't run four modules of DDR2-1066. P grudgingly accepted four 1GB DDR2-800 over-clockable modules on a replacement order, all the while telling R that he was wrong, the motherboard can handle it, and it would be stable if our product wasn't such crap.

Just because the board supports it does not mean it will run stable if you push it to the limit. Tweaking and over-clocking is an art, not a mathematical science, and what P completely failed to understand was that what the motherboard specifications say it's capable of no longer apply once you start pushing things. Specifications are general guidelines, not laws of nature. They never have been and they never will be.

People like that try to race a Celica, because it is a sportscar, it really is, and they will never understand why the Corvette keeps kicking their ***. The Celica can run 110mph too! It should be a tie! They can run at the same speed! It should be a tie!! :crybaby

Stupid little punk. :banghead

 

Bad day at the office, huh? Well, look at the bright side, you're home now so kick off your shoes and relax and, hopefully, you won't have another "P" tomorrow!! Here, have one on me, I'm sure you could use ithttp://bestsmileys.com/drinks/4.gif

 

Oh, Mimsy, take a break, and go shoe shopping... Don't go to any store with a "P" in it, it will only depress ya.... I think that would almost drive me to drinking, and I see Stubby done posted you a mug full! I sure hope the rest of the week is better!

 

Mmm... beer! Thanks Stubby, I feel better.

TeeCee, I went window shopping on Newegg instead. They have some very sexy hard drives there...

 

Good for you, Mimsy! Sounds like you had fun! :-D

 

Hmmm, must resist rant against ******* Memory who would

1- not offer support for what was misrepresented stats on NE. I checked the sticks BEFORE I had them shipped.

2- would not help with refund and pointed me to NE with me eating about $20 of shipping for memory that was wrong for my machine. Even when I sent them screenshots of the errors.

(not always the PEBKAD syndrome, but also manufactures misrepresentation of stats for sales)

Lastly, I am not the noob in the rant in the OP. Cheap generic memory solved what the "Premium Memory" would not.

 

Any company anywhere would tell you to ask for the refund from the (r)etailer you sent the payment to... that's hardly unusual or surprising.

 

this has recently become a huge issue with me;
people who approach you for help, then argue with you about the help you gave.

 

Doen't it kinda make you want to give them the wrong advice next time?

 

"Oh, it's really easy. To get rid of the virus on your computer, go to the recovery console and type in 'format c:'. I promise you, it will get rid of all the malware on your computer. Every part of it." :innocent

((Disclaimer, to cover my rear: Everything else too. Every part of it.)

 

Oh, you are good! Yeah, that sure would get 'rid' of that virus alright! :-D Seriously, tho, you must really want to tell them that at times.... I know, it wouldn't take me long, for sure! How do you keep it together, Mimsy?

 

Easy. Once I hang up on them i never have to see them again. Ever.

Also, I tend to drink heavily on weekends, but that's not really a good example to follow... :-o

 

See, knowing that kind of thing annoys people who aren't paid sufficiently well, if the answer doesn't seem to mesh, I'll ask to speak to a supervisor so I don't unduly annoy the people just trying to provide a service.

 

Problem is, the supervisors usually are promoted on their skills as supervisors, not on whatever computer knowledge they have...

 

I think that is why they are called " supervisors"... Meanwhile, you have to do the calls, for sure... Yup, I would be doing some major R&R on w/e too, Mimsy.... I can see why , for you do have to answer some wild questions, for sure..... Hope this week is better for you!

 

I can't bring myself to do it.

I just can't. I think that is part of the reason why it pisses me off so bad when people go one about me giving them bad advice or wrong information.

 

Details, details... LOL But you're right, "on most AMD motherboards the memory controller is integrated into the CPU" is what I should have said.

This guy actually was not over-clocking anything... his motherboard just wasn't up to manufacturer's specs. That happens. It sucks, but it happens. Replace the board.

Bah, that's is BS. The customer is never right. If they knew what they were doing they wouldn't need to call tech support for help. They do have certain rights, and a part of my job is to protect and honor those. but "always right"? Never. That phrase is used by jerks as a justification for being a jerk, and that's all it is.

I don't normally let these people get to me to the point were I have to vent on forums... that one just was the very last straw of a really, really long day.

 

One of the things I do like about my job is that they let me get away with just that. At least two or three times per week I end up telling a customer, "if you don't want to do any troubleshooting and don't want to listen to my answers, then why did you call?"

 

I have to admit that once or twice, I have cracked and said, "You have access to all the same tools I do. If you think I am leading you astray, then fix it yourself. I have far better and more important things to work on."

I did link a fellow to the Malware forum with instructions on how to get a Majorgeeks account and I did tell him to do it himself if he thought it was taking too long. I also emailed the contents of his browser history to the COO of the company. Nothing ever really happened but it was fun for a second or too.

 

there is a reason I am bald as a grape anymore :-D

 

I actually do that for friends and co-workers a lot, but that's when they have a real malware problem, and I want them to get the best help possible. I try to be helpful by emphasizing they have to follow the guide to the letter, and the malware fighters are volunteers and very busy so it will take a few days before they respond. The ones who follow the guide all have great things to say about it though.

Ahem. *points to vodka bottle*