Almost impossible computer to fix! Please help me diagnose the problem.

I am having issues with an HP Media Center M8000n desktop PC. When my friend first gave me this computer to fix he said that it as repeatedly shutting down and restarting randomly. At first I thought it was a virus and I couldn't run any scans because it kept shutting down. I tried going into safe mode and it worked and I got do quick scans but it would also shut down. I then tried doing dskchk and etc and disabled all startup services and programs and did a clean boot start. I did this because I was trying to upgrade their windows vista 32bit to windows 7 32bit.

However, the PC shut down again during the upgrade process and it revert back to the old vista. Keep in mind that I can't do a clean install because there were important files my friend requested me to keep. I then tried repairing the vista HD using a vista 32 bit install CD. Before I did that I tried doing startup repair and used the system recovery command prompt to rewrite the boot sectors with no avail. Through the installations and trying to get the PC to go to desktop to run virus scans I would get many freezes/random shutdowns. Most of the freezes would be at startup where the windows bar shows loading, and most restarts would be when the desktop is running. After the random reboots things got worse and I started getting BSOD's. They varied and were not specific, sometimes it was DRIVER_IRQL ones and some times it was files like tcpip.sys or some other junk. The vista repair also shut down through the process and the startup repair made things very bad.

The vista HDD would now not load the desktop. Instead after the initial BIOS screen when turning on the PC it would say, "DISK BOOT FAILURE. INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER". I would enter the disk but the startup repair would show no problems, and a repair install would just freeze/BSOD midway. So I was stuck. I decided to attach that Vista HDD to my working PC as slave. I tried booting from my working PC and it gave the same error even when I did a complete DSKCHK on the drive. I put it in slave and logged onto my windows and cleaned the registry, viruses, and anything else from my PC. Still no luck.

I then took the 2nd HD that is empty from the broken PC and installed Windows 7 on that. For some reason even a brand new install completely formatted it still gave me random BSOD's and random shutdowns when the PC starts up (when it shows the windows logo). I was perplexed, so I thought if I just installed Windows completely new it must be a hardware problem. So this is what I have so far. 1 HDD that has Vista installed with important files that won't load the desktop or anything for that matter. 1 HDD that has Windows 7 installed that still gives errors during startup. And then there is my personal PC that works fine.

I told my friend I would backup his data and I plan to format both of those HDD's. But now I have a question, I don't know what the root cause of this problem is. I concluded that it could be a HDD problem, Mobo problem, or Video card problem. I plan on testing my personal PC's HD with the broken PC and see if it works with no problems and if it doesn't then I will assume it's a Motherboard problem.

Any suggestions on what I should do? thanks!

 

There are a lot of things that can cause the problems you describe. A few would be a failing HD, bad RAM, bad PSU or bad capacitors on the mainboard.

I would recommend doing the data backup before you do anymore to try fixing the problem. It seems that each attempt is making the problem worse.

You might try using Knoppix or some other live CD to boot the machine and copy the data from the HD. If it continues to reboot itself, inspect the mainboard and/or try replacing the RAM.

 

Thanks, I forgot to mention that I used HP diagnostic tools to check RAM and HD and both were fine according to the program. As for bad PSU I don't think that is the problem, and for capacitors I don't really know much about those.

 

Also check that the CPU heatsink isn't loose (applying a new layer of heatsink compound might not hurt) and that the CPU fan runs.

Sam

 

http://www.shnerdlys.com/caps_close-up.jpg

 

Alright I formatted the hard drives and I tried installing Windows 7 but I keep getting various BSOD's during the installations. I know that if I can slave the HDD's to my personal PC that works fine I can install them from there, however, even with a fresh install and a clean HDD I fear that there is a bigger problem. Any suggestions?

 

What were the errors of the BSOD's during the install?

 

The first sounds like heat as Scajr says.

The second could be a "bad" copy of Vista and needs the ISO burnt again.

If the HS and thermal potential is stuffed (CPU overheating), you can try installing the OS "until the cows come home" but it still wont work.

 

Alright I will check the CPU and heatsink, if I can ever get into the desktop I will check the temperatures using Everest but other than that I don't know how to tell if a CPU is overheating.

Also the BSOD's I am getting are various .sys file errors like netio.sys or something like that and then some IRQL NOT LESS OR EQUAL errors.

 

I spent 25 years as a field service tech and you have to eliminate the simple and obvious first.
So make sure all the fans in the computer are running, especially the one cooling the CPU. Carefully touch the heat sink on the CPU. Normally it should be warm but not hot.

Sam

 

Okay I will do that but I did run a test when the PC would load the desktop and it said memory and CPU were fine, but I will check manually and let you know what I find.

On a side not I was having trouble with the monitor, when I connect the VGA cable to the back of the PC sometimes the screen shows up sometimes it doesn't..And some monitors it always shows up but with some monitors it never shows anything on the screen (I have multiple monitors available to test with).

 

Okay so in attempt to format both HD's from the broken PC I put them as slaves in my working PC. Only 1 of the HD's was recognized and I formatted it. I then put the HD that wasn't being recognized back into the broken PC and it recognized it but I couldn't load gparted or windows to format it. It just keeps saying DISK BOOT FAILURE INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER, so I put in the Windows 7 CD and it loaded and then froze at the Starting Windows screen.

And then...I took your advice and checked the heatsink and it was pretty hot, I then removed the heatsink and touched the bottom and I would say if I left my hand on there for a long time it would start to hurt a little. I then checked my heatsink from my working PC and it seemed warm but a bit cool at the same time.

I also noticed the thermal paste from the broken PC looked dry and sort of cracking. I can't believe I didn't notice this before, how silly of me .

So now what would you recommend 1. Trying a different CPU using my 2 working PC's upstairs or 2. Buying thermal paste and trying to see if that will cool things down? thanks

 

Nice story, too long i guess.

I'm not an expert but do the basic tests.

Basics 1

> Check BIOS to recognize the HDD
> Connect HDD in different (i guess SATA port)
> Back up info from your friend, complete format HDD
> Clean Install Windows 7

Basics 2

If the computer still restarting then you ought do this:

> Use another HDD
> Clean RAM Modules with rubber eraser and test it 1 by 1, i mean, use 1 to install or do something (if reboot) use the each other.

Intermediate

Use Hiren's boot cd, it have some tools to check the HDD if is ok or not.

Good luck, tell us results.

 

The broken PC can recognize both hard drives, but the working PC I have only recognizes one of the HD's (the completely formatted one). I tried connecting different ports but same problem, seems weird why it would recognize in one PC and not the other. I did backup info but like I said the broken PC that recognizes the HD freezes when the install screen comes. And I can't install from my working PC because it won't recognize it.

I will try to clean the RAM modules. And I will look into Hiren's boot cd, thanks.

 

I have some ideas for this:

1. Did you disabled or enabled "Enhaced option in BIOS for SATA Compatibility" (sometimes that make problems with reading in HDD, try disable or enable it)

2.Is the HDD longer that the Mainboard capacity to read it in your computer? As you should know, not all boards can recognize any disk, maybe it have too much capacity for your own pc.

3.Try to see options in BIOS (be carefull) relationated with HDD.

Finally, did you tried to install using other HDD in your friend's computer?

Good Luck, tell us results!!

 

Alright I tried everything you suggested and I also used Hiren's Boot CD to run diagnostic tests. The tests show that the CPU/HD's/Memory are all working fine. However, the heatsink still gets very hot when I try to install windows.

One more thing, ever since the beginning of this problem I've been having graphical issues. Whenever I turn on the PC it shows the monitor blank or says no signal, after resetting the CMOS and unplugging the power and restarting several times *somtimes* I get lucky and I can see the screen. This has started to get very annoying as I have to restart many many times..any suggestions? thanks!

 

Are you sure it could be a power supply failure? All the components inside are running and I get BSOD's, and freezing but not shutting down immediately. If it were a failing PSU wouldn't the PC turn off automatically instead of hang?

The PC screws up after BIOS. When I ran Hiren's Boot CD the PC went on for hours doing the test, then when I started installing windows within 10 minutes it froze..

 

First at all.

Is not a good practice reset CMOS so many times, and if you have to unplugg the power cable and restart as you said we are talking about:

- Incompatibility hardware problem
- Hardware Malcfuntion
- Power Supply Malfunction

You can do this:

Basic Tests

Try to install using very basic components:

- Board
- RAM
- HDD
- DVD
- 1 RAM Module (if you have 2 or 3 install using just one)

Disconnect anything else, like video cards, sound cards, "diskette i hope you haven't", extra coolers... etc. That will help us to determinate what problem is.

You should quit/discconect video card, is really important do this step to check pass by pass.

If that steps works

- You have to check what piece (video card, memory module, sound card) is generating the problem.

If you still recieving BSOD

In this order:

- Try another RAM Module (just one) (Try different slots too)
- Try to use other power supply (i do not know if translation is ok, i mean this) http://deeto88.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/atx_power_supply.jpg

If you continue still recieving BSOD

- Maybe your Mainboard is dead

I hope you will tell us results, good luck.

 

As mentioned a couple of post earlier, test your PSU. You can buy a good cheap PSU tester on Ebay for under $25.
I had one that kept cutting off recycling over and over and when I put a PSU tester on it the 3v rail was bad, I replaced PSU and no problems since

 

Since the video card was onboard I had to use my own GeForce card from my PC and then I removed each memory module one by one. To my surprise all 3 were bad except one 512mb stick. And then I removed my GPU and fount it the onboard graphics were working too. I successfully installed Windows 7 on both HD's with 1 memory stick and the temperatures are looking fine as well. The mobo is a bit hot sometimes but not too bad.

I feel very dumb that I didn't try the basic tests first It was a simple solution and it took me weeks to figure this out, thanks everyone for all the help I really really appreciate it!