I am stumped on this. Help?

1992 Nissan D22 2wd 4 cyl truck. It has had starting issues for years. It has gotten worse lately. Some days, it starts fine. Other times, it acts like the battery is almost dead, barely turns over, try to start it again, and it will start right up. Other times it will turn over for 6 secs or so, and either not start, or start and die.

What I have done:

1) Checked the battery. Good to go, battery connections are clean.
2) Had the starter checked, spins like a top when 12 volts is applied (is not the stock one)
3) Bypassed the fuel filter shut-off by having a wire run directly from the starter to the ignition switch.
4) Bypassed the 'clutch start only feature' don't remember how I did that.
5) Replaced the ignition switch.
6) Spark plugs were changed out less than a year ago.
7) Fuel filter has been changed within the year.

Once it starts, it will run great. Might crank right up the next time, might not. Exhibits all symptoms randomly when the engine is warm or cold.

I would love for this truck to run for about 6 to 8 months, then I will have the $ to get something newer. I don't want to put much more money into this truck, but I need it to start!

I took it to my usual mechanic, and he was swamped. Well, plus he does not charge me, so I get work done when he is slow. He said it was possibly a bad ground? Suggested running a battery cable from the negative battery post to the engine? :confused

I am lost here. I used to run a service department, but I dealt with computer diagnostics, and part numbers for what the mechanics needed.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

 

It might be that the earth (ground) strap from the block to the body is not making a good connection?

 

Two things come to mind, first the coil is not working at full power or as your mechanic friend said it is a bad earth, if you have a length of heavy duty copper wire connect one end to your negative terminal on the battery and the other end to a good metal part of the motor (not aluminium) normally the bolts that hold the top cover on the camshaft is a good point.

The reason this happens is the motor is mounted on rubber blocks and relies on the peripheral components to give it an earth from the battery.

Here is a way to check the coil.

http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubleshooting/ss/coil-test-ohm.htm

 

Thanks for the info. Now to find the ignition coil...

Quick update. I bought some cheap jumper cables, pulled them apart so I had 2 separate cables, and clipped one to the negative battery cable, and the other to right below the outside of the valve cover. The truck started consistently 10 times in a row. Fixed? Will find out over the next couple of days. I can live without the AC, it is finally cooling off around here. If it will consistently start, I can drive it while I save up for another truck.

 

The weirdness continues. After doing the ground wire thing, I drove to work, shut it off, cranked it, and it barley turned over...:cry

Then I thought about something. When I cranked it 10 times this morning, I had turned the AC off. Going to work, I had it on. So, periodically today I went out and started it a few times. Cranks perfectly with the AC off. Random problems when the AC is on. This truck has always had odd electrical problems. When you turn the key to start it, all the AC, radio and all cut off. I am wondering if that is flawed. But hey, if keeps on cranking, I will be happy to turn off the AC when I start it. Would be awesome if I can keep it running untill mid spring. More time to save up for a better ride.

 

Possible that, even though the battery checks out OK, might still be the problem.
It may not have enough amperage for the vehicle.
Try one with a higher CCA number.
That's Cold Cranking Amps.
Running the AC while driving is drawing juice faster than the voltage regulator (another possibility) can supply.
Do you have a voltmeter installed in the truck? While running it should show about 13.8V.

 

Automatic or straight drive? If it's a stick, then always park downhill! roflmao

 

No voltmeter on this one. It is the stripped down version. They did a battery load test and told me it was fine. Think I will borrow his tester and do it myself. I don't think it is the battery. I did at lest 20 cold starts today, if the battery was weak, I would think that would kill it.

It is random. It will start 4 times, then just turn over and not start, turn over, start and die, then crank right up like there is no problem.

But, so far, it has cranked every time with the AC turned off when I turn the key to start it.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to park at the top of the hill? :-D A lot less work to get it 'roll' started vs push starting.

 

Yada, yada - you know what I mean. rolleyes

Hope the AC's the culprit - that's an easy fix. I was getting ready to suggest checking the alternator - I know, the alternator is not really in the loop until the thing's cranked, but we had a '93 Lumina alternator that would do some really weird crap...like every dozen startups or so, the battery would act dead.

 

Ironically, I do live on a hill. But most of where I go is flat. Good to know about the alternator, don't think that is it, but if it starts it's crazyness again, I will get it checked. Should have some light on that when I test my battery at the shop.

 

OK, with the AC off, I just started it 10 times. No driving, no charge time, just started it, let it run for 20 secs or so then cut it off.

No failure to start.

I would think the battery and alternator get a pass. Will test them next week.

 

It certainly sounds as though the AC is the culprit, it is shorting the battery at some point and that could be an SOB to find, if the motor starts without the AC on then that is your best option until you have saved enough for a new ride.

 

May not actually be shorting out.
Think of it as a computer.
The battery is the RAM. (Insufficient amount)
AC is a Startup program.( drain on your memory usage)
Everything else has to be put on hold while it gets its share.
2 remedies.
1: Remove the program (AC) from the startup list, or
2: Install more RAM (larger capacity battery.)
Vehicle should have at least 550CCA battery in it.
Battery that is in could be lower capacity or may be large enough but old and getting weak.

 

I will test the battery Monday. The battery is rated at CCA 690 at 0F. I don't have a date on it, but I think it is a couple of years old. But with a bad battery, would not 10 cranks in a day without charging or run time kill the battery?

This has been going on sporadicly for years, I have changed the starter, battery, ignition switch... This truck is haunted with electrical problems. That is why I bypassed the clutch safety and fuel pump safety.

Like I said, I will drive it today and Sunday, and test the battery Monday. If it is weak, it should show up easily. Just cranked it twice this morning, no failure to start if the AC is off. :confused

 

Would it just turn over at times? and sometimes fire right up? and sometimes start then shut off? Sputter? Fuel filter? Fuel Pump?

 

A 690CCA battery, even 2-3 years old, should be more than adequate for the job.

 

"1992 Nissan D22 2wd 4 cyl truck. It has had starting issues for years. It has gotten worse lately. Some days, it starts fine. Other times, it acts like the battery is almost dead, barely turns over, try to start it again, and it will start right up. Other times it will turn over for 6 secs or so, and either not start, or start and die."

It is random. Sometimes it just starts right up, other times it acts like the battery is dead, then you try it right after that, it cranks just fine.

It is only guaranteed to start right every time when it is in the shop. :-D But, so far, it is looking like it is fixed, but I have thought this before. Should know by Sunday. It rarely goes 2 days without not wanting to start.

 

I had the same problem with my Isuzu. Never found out what caused it. Then i changed the clutch and after that sometimes i got nothing when i turned the key. So double check the grounds and the starter. Has the starter ever been tested?

 

Shop tested the starter, said it was good. OK, since yesterday, over 20 successful starts, 0 failed or sluggish starts. I think I have found the problem!!:cool If it will get me around until June, that would be awesome, as I should have sufficient funds to get a decent ride then. I do know 3 or 4 used car dealers, who will help me find a good deal.

I have seen it many times. If you have the $ and the time to wait, a great deal can be found. It is when you are desperate you get screwed.

Thanks for the ideas! I will post back in a few days and let you know the status.

 

Little update. Went out, turned the key, it did not want to start. Turned over just fine, but no joy. After that, I started it 12 times, no problems. So, that is over 30 starts, with only one failure. But it did not act like the battery was dead.

I would think 12 cold starts on a bad battery would get progressively worse. I think the battery is good. I will still give it a quick load test Monday. Never hurts to eliminate a possible problem.

 

Do you have somebody that can access the trouble codes from the "brain-box" (computer)
which could maybe point out something we're overlooking.

 

This is a 1992 truck, to my knowledge there is no computer diagnostic on it. If there is, it is new to me, I would have to look around for help with that.

"( Note: No VG30E V6's were produced beginning 1996 and the final year produced in the US 1997 models due to new emissions laws enacted with US OBD-II compliance that Nissan couldn't meet in time), only the KA24E 4cyl engine was available for 1996 and 1997 model"

From: http://www.askbiography.com/bio/Nissan_Hardbody_Truck.html

 

Six more cold starts, without even driving around the block to charge the battery. That is 18 cold starts, with no battery charging, or run time over 20 seconds. Me thinks that battery is good. But will test it next week, never hurts to eliminate a possible problem.

 

Six more perfect starts. 3 with the AC on? ARGH!! If this works out, I will get my late 1800 bolt action rifle. I really want this Mauser, just can't swing it if I have to get a new car. :-D

 

"Suggested running a battery cable from the negative battery post to the engine?" I did that. I don't shop at Auto Zone, prefer O'reilly's. Why would Auto Zone call the cops on me?:confused

 

AutoZone stores here are more likely to come out and help you.
That is "hillbilly helpful".

 

Geez.

After almost 2 weeks, it did not want to start. Got it started, took it to the shop, and they told me the battery was bad.

OK, $103 later, I got a new battery. $103? I do get $12 back for the core.

I started it 5 times with the AC on, no problems. Charged up the new battery, started it 14 more times, no problems. Put the charger on it until it was done, and here we are.

Is the problem solved? Who knows.

 

Old battery could have had a dead cell in it.
Did anyone ever test each cell with a hydrometer for specific gravity?

 

??? :confused
I drop it off at the shop, they tell me what they think. Dang thing started perfectly for almost 2 weeks, then it starts it's craziness again.

 

You may have a combination of problems. First I would make sure that all factory grounds are clean bare metal contact & tight. A dab of dielectric grease, Vaseline or ordinary grease can help prevent corrosion.

Also closely inspect the actual ground cables & cables to battery. Disconnect ground cable first and with a sharp knife carefully cut back just a smidgeon of outer plastic insulation and look for green corrosion on the copper wires next to connector lug. If there is any at all, toss the cable & replace, they're fairly cheap. Check both. They cannot be adequately cleaned but must be replaced. When reconnecting, connect positive first, then negative battery cable.

Look especially at the ground cables, as corrosion deposits are most common there as the electron flow helps carry metal particles & contaminants to ground. If you're on the Gulf coast this is a very common problem thanks to salty air. In addition, because of salt in local atmosphere, clean the contacts where starter switch wires plug into switch. This switch cleaning should be done with battery disconnected, ground removed first and ground reconnected last.

During starting the ignition circuitry switches to give full battery voltage to the coil, for hotter spark & quicker ignition. After engine starts, as key is released from 'Start' or '2' position to 'Run' or '1' position, the system switches to lower voltage sent to coil, by running it through a Resistor. If voltage is not stepped down to coil by Resistor after starting sequence the coil will overheat and quickly degrade, like in minutes in some cases. During starting the protective resistance in the circuit is provided by the starter's draw on the vehicle's electrical system, effectively lowering voltage to coil.

Check coil to see that the wires to the Resistor [possibly located on side of coil] in coil circuit are clean, bare metal contacts. This would be on one of the small wires on coil, marked +, which would be connected to a resistor. Again a dab of grease is good as long as connection is tight.

With ignition 'On', but not turned to 'Start' position, positive + coil terminal should show about 11 volts. That is the small wires to coil are positive & negative, so test the + terminal. During 'Run' after vehicle engine has started this terminal should show roughly 7-9 volts, but on some only 5-7 volts with engine running. If it's above 5 volts you should be okay.

During cranking the coil secondary wire [the big heavy one that goes to distributor] when removed from distributor cap center tower and held about 1/2" from clean metal surface should give a bright blue spark. This wire remains connected to coil during test. This may be up to 20,000V [very low amps so it can't actually harm you] so wear some leather gloves or it might loosen your dental fillings hah! If the spark is weak and yellow, clean all wire connections mentioned above. If they're already clean then toss the coil, or test with another known good coil.

Inside distributor cap you'll find brass terminals. Those may be cleaned with a sharp pocket knife to remove corrosion. Don't scrape hard or alter shape of brass because distance to center rotor is important. Scrape any corrosion off of end of rotor's brass part, and very gently polish the little spring clip that touches center teminal in top of cap. Do not touch the center electrode in top of inside of distributor cap because it's soft graphite and that will destroy cap.

If you have an ohmmeter you can test resistance of coil secondary wire, the single thick one [with it removed from engine] which should show about 15,000-20,000 ohms resistance when removed from circuit. If lower, replace. While it's out polish up the brass terminals on this secondary wire that plug into coil & distributor cap, and clean the coil & cap connections also.

Coil secondary wire [the heavy one] and spark plug wires use a graphite electrode down center instead of actual copper wire. You must be careful not to bend or twist these wires when servicing vehicle as it can break continuity in wires. A complete new set is quite inexpensive nowadays.

Always best to start vehicle and let it run for a minute before switching on A/C. The A/C compressor uses an electro-magnetic clutch to cause belt to drive compressor and this clutch when old can put quite a draw on cranking voltage. In addition, starter motor would also have to spin the extra load of compressor, needlessly over-burdening battery.

All of the above is simple & safe to perform even by a person not skilled in auto mechanics. All principles apply to any gas engined motor vehicle from the 30's to present. It's something to learn and practice as it can be the difference between walking or driving home from wherever!

 

Forum software glitched and wouldn't allow another edit, only 1 minute after posting last. I wanted to add:

When disconnecting any sparkplug wire or coil secondary, grasp wire by the soft rubber boot right where it plugs in. Hold very firmly there as you finagle wire out of connection. If you just grab some part of wire & pull it's likely to yank the terminal off end of wire, requiring replacement.

I've had this edit problem a couple of times, where the software won't allow an edit except in first minute or two after posting. I clicked the 'Administrator' link in popup wraning message to contact forum admin, but page didn't really tell me who or how to contact....

 

Thanks for the info LocknLod, and all the others. I would up replacing the battery, as it was barely turning over sometimes when starting, the problems of not trying to turn over, or turning over and not starting have not happened for over 2 weeks.

I did notice some slight corrosion on the positive battery connector. I will look into replacing it, but Nissan made that connector a huge conglomerate of plugs and terminals. I just need it to run for a few more months.. Maybe I can get by with the old one. If I have to replace the entire positive wire, it was a little over $100 10 years ago...