BackUp Questions

Discussion in 'Software' started by redtearsblackwings, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Hi all,
    I'm a complete newbie here and I admit that I don't know much, so when I was reading that backing up is a good idea I was extremely confused.

    I was wondering what actually is backing up? Does it create a simple file that contains all your pictures, music, progams ect. or do you need to manually have to copy them onto a disk?

    I'm sorry if this is a repeat, but after a couple of hours searching as a non-member and reading other threads on backing up I was just more confused. If someone could help me with this in a simple way without too much 'tech talk'(I have short term memory problems and I don't remember terms that are not used every day) I'd really appreciate it. Again sorry if this has been asked before.

    Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully answer my question.
     
  2. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi and Welcome

    Well you can have a multiple replies to this as there are a few forms of backups you can do, I will quickly run through a few of them.

    1. Manual Backup ~ This is where as you rightly say above you just manually copy the items of data you wish to backup to CD/DVD/USB or a seperate HDD internal or external

    2. You can use Windows own build in backup and depending on what Windows version you are using the methods are slightly different, so do let us know what Windows version and Service Pack you have?

    e.g.

    Windows XP
    Windows 7

    This tend to just backup the items like Documents, Videos, Music folder and alike, there are also many free 3rd party applications that can do this also.


    3. An Image Backup ~ this is a full clone/image of your HDD, so it will backup Windows, all your applications and all your files and data, it will take up more space on CD/DVDs or HDD but the benefit is that if your PC crashes badly, you can just recover the Image backup and its as if your PC had never failed/crashed (does depend on you making a backup every dat or few days, so that you are not too out of date with files, data etc)

    Options for apps for this are from the retail ones like Acronis True Image to Easeus ToDO Karens Replicator which are Free, I do like Easeus ToDo as its quite like Acronis and the main site to the developer has guides on how to use the app.

    4. You can use multiple methods of the above, I tend to run Acronis True Image on a Wed and Sun for a full image of my main HDD (or SSDs now) and run Microsoft Sync Toy to automatically copy the data from specific folders like My Doument, Music etc to another Folder on another HDD so those areas of my documents and files are backed up without a full Image file.


    Hope thats what you where after and ask away any questions you have, myself or others here are well versed in backups.
     
  3. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

    Hi redtearsblackwings. :wave

    Yes, backups are important and there are several types and different methods.
    I'm currently trying to setup a better backup strategy for myself.
    Some backups are simply copies of important files, as you mentioned.
    Those copies can be made in a different location on the same hard drive,
    or on another partition on the the same physical hard drive,
    or on an additional hard drive in your computer, or on an external hard drive, or on CD's or DVD's.

    A partition is a separate drive with its own drive letter, like D: or F:, that exists on the same Physical drive.

    Another type of backup uses an Image which is an exact copy of an entire drive or partition
    which can be used to restore a drive or partition to a previous good working state.

    Another type of backup is a copy of the operating system Registry, that can be restored when certain types of problems occur.

    A good (free) program for that is ERUNT - The Emergency Recovery Utility NT
    A popular free program for making image backups is EASEUS Todo Backup Home Edition

    Some good programs for backing up specific files and folders are:
    Cobian Backup
    Karen's Replicator

    I'll see if I can find a couple of good articles about what backups are and different strategies of how to do it.

    Cheers. :major
     
  4. usafveteran

    usafveteran MajorGeek

    I think you might like Allway Sync. Typically, with backup software, you will need to select the file and/or folders that you want to backup the first time you use it and select the destination drive or partition but you can save that backup as a "job" that can be later used again. In other words, you can open that job later and run it again without having to go through the file/folder selection process again. If you want to create multiple "jobs", most of the backup programs will let you do that too. So, for example, if you want a saved backup procedure just for music files, you could run that backup separately.
     
  5. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

  6. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    Many aspects to backup as has been said, but the first things to concentrate on are these files which are irreplaceable, particularly your photos and any important personal documents you may have. Think about the way they are organised on your comp because good organisation makes backing up far simpler. Also best to use a file backup program that has a built-in scheduler - then you can set it to do an automatic unattended backup every day at a time that suits. SyncToy is one such, but many others can do this too.

    It's important to keep backups where you can still access them even if your comp dies or disappears, so an external drive of some sort is pretty well essential, though personally I wouldn't keep stuff long term on a flash drive - I've had too many fail on me! It's also good to have backups in more than one place.

    Later on, when you are getting organised with your backups, you should think about system imaging for disaster recovery, but get your file backups sorted first. An OS can always be reinstaaled.
     
  7. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Thank you everyone for the replys, it's starting to make a little more sense.
    I'm running Windows 7 Home, but I'm not sure what vision it is or how to find that information lol.
    I have my flies both on my computer but also on my 80gig iPod, I will be buying a different external hard drive(something bigger) when I've got the spare money. However I've never had any problems with storing things on my iPod.

    I do still have one question that I'm a little confused with and I'm sorry if someone has already answered it here because I just didn't understand. When creating a image backup file how big is it? If they back up copies the files does that mean it's going to be a massive file?
     
  8. mjnc

    mjnc MajorGeek

    Yeah, you guessed right.
    If you image a partition or an entire drive, then the image file will be about as big as
    the total spaced USED on that partition or drive.

    There may be some compression done by default, depending on the backup program's capabilities and initial settings.

    I agree with Earthling's first point, that you should first concentrate on making copies of your most important stuff.
     
  9. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Ah okay cool, thank you for all your help and advice on programs which I'm now reading about.
     
  10. mjeast

    mjeast Private E-2

    Yes, backup copies either certain types of files (personal media and documents) or it can also copy your entire full computer drive image. The full image backup will copy/preserve all software; and will have your registration keys and certificates.
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Back-up-your-files
     
  11. oneeyejack

    oneeyejack Guest

  12. oneeyejack

    oneeyejack Guest

    Hi!
    Here is a screen shot of back up images created by Macrium Reflect. They are stored on a seagate External 120GB USB.
    I can recover from a complete HD failure. It will be exactly like is was the day I created the image. I will be back up and running in a hour or less!!
    PS I'm running xp3. Windows7 has it's own back up feature, but I would expect it to look similar????????
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2011
  13. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Thank you for the attachment, but I have to admit that I really don't know what it means lol.

    I'm looking to take an image of my computer after I re-load the OS because it's gone really glitchy on me. However I've got no idea how to even go about it lol.

    I did recently by a Seagate Expansion External Drive that's 1TB, so now I've got plenty of space to play with :D
     
  14. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi

    Its a screenshot of the image files you may see if you used Macrium Reflect as your backup app.

    Great on the 1TB drive and that's enough space. As for no idea on how to do it, honestly it is a lot more simple that what it looks like outwardly, majority of making an image file is a few clicks, and the detailed posts earlier in the thread give you links to the apps and to the help files.

    Easeus ToDo for instance has the advice on how to create the boot cd HERE you will need if your OS drive is corrupted as you will need to boot to the Boot CD (which is a light CD run version of the software) to recover your backup image.

    Then how to create an Image of your OS drive (in your case the OS drive) HERE (always I use Full Backup and not Incremental) then how to recover that Image if and when needed HERE


    Full user guide HERE in PDF format and do get this document as it has a picture guide to the menus you will see when doing the above backup and recovery steps, to how to schedule a backup.

    I schedule backups that way it set and forget, I do mine on a twice weekly basis, Sunday and Wednesday.

    But when you choose an application to use we can help you through it.
     
  15. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Oh I get it now! I'm not using that tool, I'd being doing the copeing to my external drive because I didn't like the sync apps. I'm clearing space on my computer and the sync apps deleted the files on my external drive when I removed them from my computer. Lucky they where on my iPod still.

    Thank you for the links and I'm very sorry if I'm causing irritation.
     
  16. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    Hi

    First off no problems you are not irritating anyone at all, your thread is a good one and we just wish to to get to a point where you have backups of your important data safely stored.

    I get what you mean about Sync apps, and thats why you need to read the instructions/help carefully to know the options, as some have copy and delete original, mirror files on both sync folders to only copy new files.

    That's good on copying your important files manually and nothing wrong with that I do that a lot, but what I would say and correct me if I'm wrong, you are not copying all the Windows installed OS files and folders are you? as that will not work to recover a system, you need an Image file or alike.

    So I'll see if I can sum up.

    1. Copy personal files, music, pictures, installer files for apps manually to folders of your choice on your external.

    2. Do use an Imaging application like Easeus ToDo to image your whole HDD (it will only copy the used space and compresses it a little to save space) as this is the best way to recover your PC in the event of a major crash or corruption etc
     
  17. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    You're completely correct about that I don't copy the OS files, I'm not sure where they are and I wouldn't be confordent to go near them anyway.

    The sum up was brilliant thank you! I'll get the Easeus ToDo and read all the links that have been put up.
     
  18. oneeyejack

    oneeyejack Guest

    Hi! I didn't realize that you were running Windows 7 until later in your thread. That makes the ball game a little different. You could still use Macrium to create a back up image of your OS, but you should listen to David and do exactly what he tells you to do. My screen shot showed my back ups and probably confused you. Just listen to David. You need to have a back up image of your entire OS. It will take some time the first time to learn how, but then it is easy. Once you have your OS backed up, you can stop worrying about losing any data and can restore your PC exactly like the day you created your back up. Just listen to David;he will show you how to do that. Sorry for confusing you.
     
  19. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Don't stress too much about confusing me, it almost my perminate state I'm use to it.
    Thanks for the offer of help, the thought was in the right place which is what counts :D
     
  20. Earthling

    Earthling Interplanetary Geek

    I do hope, once you've got your drive imaging sorted, that you will return to take a second look at the sync programs. The problem with drive imaging is that you only take an image at intervals - not every day. So if you have a problem and need to restore an image, then your entire computer, including any folders containing personal files, will be reverted to its state at the time the image was created. This can cause the loss of recent data.

    Sync programs can be setup to backup up your chosen folders automatically to a schedule, like twice daily, so there is little or no risk of losing anything important through having had to restore an image. You can also control what action it takes when deleting from the original.

    But do get your imaging sorted first!
     
  21. DavidGP

    DavidGP MajorGeeks Forum Administrator - Grand Pooh-Bah Staff Member

    No probs, and just to add a little more is that in 1 & 2 the options I gave you doing it that way you are actually backing up your personal files, music, images etc twice, once in the manual backup and second time in the Image, so a good route in having crucial data saved twice.

    I didnt want this to be a story but here goes as to my rationale on backups, I tend to duplicate a lot, and non reliant on one storage medium, for that while I tend not to use DVDs a lot, I do use the following:

    1. As I mentioned a manual backup of important files is crucial as these are files that likely cannot be replaced or replaced easily, so while I maybe anal about this I do the following with either a sync or manual copy.

    I do not save any docs to the C: drive they are on a 2nd HDD (1TB) in there respective folders, Documents, Music, Pictures, downloads* etc (with respective sub folders), which is in turn saved to an external HDD, so to duplicate. *For the downloads I have access to MSDN and TechNet so have downloaded TBs of software that I would hate to download again, hence the anal bit.

    These folders are in turn replicated on my Win Home Server 2011.

    2. I then create a Full Image on the days I mentioned that go onto a 3rd HDD (2TB) drive in my desktop, which in turn gets duplicated on a Win Home Server 2011 machine (3.5TB) I have.

    For me not having personal data in these images means that I get a default build of Windows only, the personal files are saved elsewhere so likelihood of corruption is minimised as much as possible.

    3. I do have personal data and my ripped CD collection of music on a few old IDE HDDs connected via this ROUTE that are updated once in a while and then just stored in lockable fireproof box, this anal as a lot of my data is old work that I cannot really remember to actually type it out again. ​

    Dont think you'd have to go that far, but data and data backups are crucial, and I'm liking the Win Home Server 2011 route to backups also, not a cheap route unless you buy the software when released and have an old spare PC and large HDD space that has the right spec (otherwise its buying an off the shelf WHS box and building a basic new PC with loads of HDD space), but would be good for the geeky types that have multiple PCs that need backing up.


    But back to your situation, do download the software and look at it, read the manual and see if you can follow it and if not post back and we can run you through it.
     
  22. oneeyejack

    oneeyejack Guest

    Your in good hands. These guys will help you!! I have two Seagate external drives. I keep a back up image of my OS on both of them. I don't like starting over from scratch. I back up the back up:-D:-
     
  23. oneeyejack

    oneeyejack Guest

    Hi! I have a Seagate GoFlex Desk 1TB. It has a backup and encryption software program pre-loaded on the drive. I don't use that feature because I don't have that many important files. I think you can program it to back up your files as often as you wish. I'm sure you can use incremental back ups or what ever your fancy is. I'm sure David can explain how it works better than I; sense I have never used that feature. I just create a back up image of my OS once a month or when I make major changes. It has saved me a lot of head aches. Here's a link. I hope I'm not confusing you. Just another way to back up your important data!:) Let David help you for now. This will make more sense to you latter.
    http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/external/freeagent/desktop-hard-drive/
     
  24. redtearsblackwings

    redtearsblackwings Private E-2

    Yes I did see that and to be honest I didn't like it, I didn't find it user friendly as well as the fact that it's a trail. I can't afford to be paying for stuff. I think I'll stick to my plan.
    Thanks for the reply though :)
     

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