What is up in England?

What is up with all the riots in England? Any of the English members here have a perspective better than the news? I heard the initial riots started because the police shot a guy. But it does not seem to be the case now.

I never understood the riot mentality. I see often in the states, if a team wins or loses the championship, 'fans' riot.:confused

 

I'm in Canada but an ex-Brit. The rioting is unbelievable but it is not a new thing. I lived in London when the Brixton riots were going on, not on such a large scale as the latest riots but still worrying because I worked in Brixton.

It'a about time the UK issued bobbies with guns. What else do they carry to defend themselves and make rioters behave? Truncheons? That's a laugh.

 

A sad state of affairs indeed. The tension has been probably brewing for years and just needed a trigger to set the riots off. It's much like the Rodney King fiasco in Los Angeles where they burned themselves out of their own community. Remember the brick throwing jerk attacking the poor truck driver? That kind of rage doesn't get there immediately for no reason except for insanity.

 

I have just read an article by Max Hastings http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...gma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html and it rings very true.
I personally think we have let too many soft liberals inflict the softly softly approach instead of creating a society that has respect for others.

 

It's totally pathetic. Some times I feel the high handedness of the Indian police is justified. The rioters, thugs, looters, would have been beaten and locked up. The police force would have been backed up by the CRPF, if not more.

Pathetic Vid on YT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo&feature=topvideos_news


Cheers..

 

I hope you guys have enough jails to hold them properly before they start whining about 'inhumane atrocities'. I'll keep the rest of my thoughts to myself in respect to this site and its members,

 

I am a great believer in the old saying "discipline makes the man" but i am biased because from 18 year old to 39 i was in the military.
My idea would be to create a series of boot camps staffed by military personnel and any miscreants between 15 and 25 get some hard time and i can assure you they would not want a second dose.

 

Thanks Dave but my thoughts were not within the guidelines here. I actually had to censor myself!roflmao (not the first nor last time either).

 

My thoughts were not national service because it would be no longer practical (i missed it first time round by two years) but boot camps where they would be driven hard physically and those who did not comply went hungry and unwashed until they fall in line, what the trick is to get them to form squads and perform as a unit and you would be surprised how quickly other squad members bring the bad ones into line.

In my time in the service i have seen some really hard men brought to tears by a good Sgt.

 

I will when my thoughts gell enough to make a coherent sentence. Might not even make any sense then either.

 

@David Is there any high-end looting elsewhere when these riots were going on? Criminals pay handsomely to a few loser jerks who don't give a crap to incite folks to riot, there's always those few to get the sheep running rampant to get the cops distracted.

 

Blackberries copping flack by both sides.

BlackBerry blog hacked with pro-riot warning to RIM
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/security-...blackberry-blog-hacked-pro-rioter-warning-rim

Full article at above link.

Bazza

 

The future of America does not look very bright. I suspect we will see similar things in the near future.

Thanks for the info. Always nice to get it from people closer to the subject.

 

I feel you angst David. Water cannons!! This rot requires a heavy hand. The force on hand in London can simply stymie the mob mentality.

Is this guy still the mayor? Wonder what the PM's office is going through.

To think I had planned a 10 days trip to London, with the brat. Thank god the Visas took a bit.

Cheers..

 

Sorry to hear that David, especially as the world will be seriously watching London around this time next year, as if they aren't already. It's the New York of Europe IMHO.

I see racist remarks being bandied about now too. Sad state of affairs.

 

I agree with what's been said its all just wanton destruction and stealing,they don't have a cause.The riots had spread to a local town near me,I first heard it on the radio then when passing the town centre and saw tens of police out in force,I haven't seen any rioting or vandalism yet though.

One thing that's bothered me is the blame that's been thrust on Facebook,blackberry's and net based communications in general,many news reporters and politicians have been talking like this;

"How can we monitor these services?"
"Are the police secretly monitoring them now?"
"How can we change the law to limit these forms of private communication to prevent this happening in the future?"

This is journalists,politicans and police talking like this,HELLO! These types of unmonitored communication channels are what have enabled the Arab Spring,multiple revolutions across the middle east almost freeing an entire continent of people.

When they freed the Arabs politicians and journalists praised these types of communication channels as a wonderful western freedom invention and cried foul when governments monitored them and sought retribution on those found to be involved in the revolution.

What's changed? Don't like them so much now its in your own backyard?

This is the pervading issue that's been bothering me during the riots it really winds me up.

Other than that just picked myself up a new 32 inch flat screen with a five finger discount:-D

 

This seemed relevant.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/uk-riots-liberal-right-parent

Is it really that bad?

 

No:-D

Definitely parents are don't use corporal punishment as much anymore but most of the parents that live near me are pretty strict and I live in a pretty average working class area.I'd say there are more thugs and thug type kids about these days,kids from broken homes and from parents who don't give a crap about them,its too easy to raise kids over here no thought has to go into how the kids will be supported.

When you here about some of the people who are in the riots they are often from mixed backgrounds,even people with full times jobs just wanted in on the action.

The main problem was the lax police response,the police didn't want to go in heavy handed and inflame the situation more due to the cause of the riots 'so called' being police brutally. When criminals and thugs got word the police weren't stopping them and it was pretty much a free for all,then all the criminal and young scumbags came out. I would say it was one big drunken rampage with a criminal element stealing anything they could.

Saying that its my feeling kids are marginalized now in our country there simply isn't anything for them to do or anywhere for them to go,all the youth clubs have been shutdown,much of the greenbelt land has been built on or fenced off,the school fields and playgrounds are fenced off and now look like prisons so they can't play in there,there are fewer and fewer parks,they can't hang around on street corners or in groups without being moved on by police.

Just lots of things like that that need to be addressed,the only thing that I think they could do now that I did as a kid is walk the streets,everything else takes money.

I heard an ad on the radio warning kids not to go swimming in reservoirs,they actually play it every day :confused They are now actively fencing off reservoirs as a teenager died while swimming with a his friends.

I think to myself kids should always go swimming,unfortunately some will drown that is life,just as they drown when swimming in the sea.

I don't think the extra safety is worth the amount of enjoyment you remove from childhoods,we went swimming in all the local ponds,lakes,reservoirs anything we could find and I'd want my children to do exactly the same thing.





So kids pretty much can't leave the house now without being arrested so they stay in and play on the PS3 and people are wondering why they're fat? But instead of giving them places to go and things to do Jamie Oliver comes in and takes away they're favourite foods.

Prick...I'd riot:-D

 

Spot on Rikky. :major

Pro and Cons.
One side.

The other side.

Bazza

 

Good points Rikky and Bazza, you can't have it both ways.

But the root problem is not how they communicate, but why they are so violent.

How can stealing a flat screen TV really make your life better? And how does stealing and burning buildings make your community better? I just can't wrap my head around the whole 'rioting' thing.

Ironically, they plan on using cameras and face recognition to try to catch as many as they can. I hope they catch a lot of them. Maybe make them pay a fine, and come community service for some, perhaps jail for others.

 

If all the criminals and scum meet in one place at one time it may look like all the kids are violent but most of the violent and destruction is only caused by a few 'one news source said less than 5% of the rioters',there's also mob mentality you have to factor in which turns normal people into animals,kids over here aren't more less violent than anywhere else in my experience,compared to the rest of the world our kids are prolly ***** cats.

I doubt the people involved gave it much thought in the way of improving their community:-D

 

Over the years the rules about chastising kids and the punishment that can be dealt to criminals has been so contaminated by the human rights legislation that there is now no deterrent to the acts of criminality.
Reading this morning that the younger kids (11 to 13) told the press "why worry i will only get an ASBO" (anti social behavior order) so is it any wonder they run riot.
Another peice in the news was that the government will now give police the power to ASK:-D the young thugs to remove their masks, this just shows how far it has gone when gangsters are allowed to keep their masks on because it is their right :confused

 

I wonder how many of the 650 potential looters in the House of Commons will be looting and raiding the expenses kitty after being recalled to parliament from holidays.
You know the type, been paddling in Pwllheli or building sand castles in Skegness but claim for a first class flight from Mauritius or Miami and return afterwards.
Did all 650 actually come back from their holidays or did some stay away on the off chance of not being missed, but will still claim expenses? Hope some one checked who clocked on and who was missing. The Daily Telegraph should run another whistle blower article on these “looters”.

Saw Hazel Blears condemning the thieving looters and rioters for the theft and damage to property in London and elsewhere. Pretty sure it was the same Hazel Blears who looted the expenses kitty a couple of years ago and paid a little of it back when she was caught, but would not resign. The BITCH.
'Why are these kids not in school?' asked Hazel Blears in an interview yesterday. It was then pointed out to her that it's August and they are on school holiday. :-o:-o


I would not condone the looters for one minute but for some MPs to appear on TV and complain when they were doing the same sort of thing of robbing the public blind two years ago is a little more than can be stomached at this time.

 

I can't really dissagree with much that has been said already, but realistically lads this should never have escalated this far. Look back to the 70's and 80's with all the miners and football riots, hundreds of them over the course of 20 years, I'm sure at least a couple of you have witnessed it first hand like I have when your football team loses and there an all out war.
Why were the police not prepared for this, why did it take so long to act?

Where are the water cannons???
Where are the rubber bullets???

Someone mentioned human rights etc, this is probably why the above are not used, but what about the human rights of inocents?

It saddens me to see my country looking weak against it's own people, I mean christ! if we can't handle our own what the hell would happen if we were invaded?

From what I've seen and read the riot police are a joke compared to what they used to be like.... Asking to remove masks?....ASKING???.... You TELL them, you don't ask them.

Basically what I'm getting at is more force is needed and for some reason (human rights) it's not being used.
I'm sorry but if you are attacking cops them the cops should have full freedom to retaliate, bring out the trunsions, mace, water cannons and rubber bullets and shut these idiots down in a painful and forceful way, not mamby pamby around asking them to be quiet... are you kidding me??

I don't care how old or young you are, if you are trying to burn my house down I am going to come at you with everything I have.

I've dealt with this type of behaviour first hand, obviously to a much lesser degree than current issues, but let me give you an example of how force works over niceties.

Living down on the seafront, friday night was drinky night for the local hooligans and they would smash bottles on the beach for kiddies to cut thier feet to pieces on, they would bust up public toilets and smash lights etc etc.
This used to annoy me and if I caught them I would try to do something about it since the cops didn't really care.
Then after telling off some of the kids they targetted my house, chucking rocks at my windows until one night I saw one of them ready with a molotov cocktail. That was last straw, the kid with the cocktail was one of the ring leaders, about 15 y/o.
I chased him along the prom until I cornered him, pinned him up against the wall and said in no uncertain terms that next time I see or hear of ANY vandalism or such like that reguardless of whether he was involved or not, I would come looking for HIM, just him and he would reap the whirlwind.

You know what happened?.... Nothing, it all but stopped.
I didn't ask him, I TOLD him and the result was satifactory.

Pitty the government/Police don't have the same attitude IMO.

One last thing, I wonder how much of this anger has been building over the last few years with people struggling more and more with finances etc, and why are they struggling?... because of war really, too much money going into war and stupid pointless things.... and why did..... well I'll just cut this short and simply say...

I blame Bush! :strong :-D (Just for you Fred )

 

We only get edited highlights on TV here (I do have BBC on cable but never watch it) and editorial staff always go for the drama, but on a similar point here they have even banned the Burka because it covers the face and sod the human rights but the UK seems to slavishly adhere to the rules that the EU spews out and for the life of me i cannot understand why they never stand up to them like all the rest do.

 

No I didn't.I can imagine what is in it though? And if its what I think then yeah it shouldn't have been shown.

Soldiers,cops,firemen ect aren't robots and they can't act like perfect human beings who are morally uncorrectable then add to that jokes and comments taken out of context and they can make them appear in whatever light the program makers choose to edit it.

IMO professional service personnel should be judged on their actions and how well they do their job,just as with everyone if you secretly film them 24 hours a day and sooner or later you will hear something that can be used against them,even in big brother contestants who know they're being filmed say make comments that offend races,countries or whole sections of society and they know they're being filmed.No one can live like they're being filmed all day,even people who know they're being filmed all day.

Look at Gordon brown he was accidentally recorded for 30 seconds where he made an off the cuff comment after a long day and it practically ruined his career,imagine if he was secretly recorded 24 hours a day for month?

Of course I don't condemn secretly filmed actions that uncover gross negligence,abuse or criminal act's.

 

"I blame Bush! (Just for you Fred )"

Come on now Ned, you can't blame Bush for this! Would have to be Reagan (Riots), or Carter or Clinton (Crime, Criminal). :-D

Well, glad I don't live in an urban area, and thanks for the 2A!

This has been an interesting thread. Saw many comments I was not expecting.

 

I read the article David but because i have an innate distrust of politicians (our are no better than yours) i can not see it as anything other than points scoring because he is not in a position to implement any of his policies he can say what he wants to please the public.

If i was following a politician in a car and they made a hand signal the only thing i would believe is that the window is is open.

 

I think it will be very 'interesting' here, as we have to cut spending or get more $ from the citizens. As I am sure you have seen, my country has plenty of people with no respect for laws or human life. I don't want to turn this into a tax vs spending or a political thread, but I think we will have to cut or reduce a lot of entitlements, and I don't think it will be pretty then.

The 1A and 2A of the US are great things, but can be a double edged sword.

 

Awesome post Ned.
One keeps hearing about the general discontent, on the news-unemployment, financial troubles and blah blah.

These rioters from what I see look, fed & clothed.
They have no idea of what real poverty is all about. If they came to India and visited a slum area, they'd run back to Queen and country.

Visit a slum shack here and you will be welcomed with a smile. They will brew you some tea and offer food, even if it mean robbing their stomach. They live in paltry conditions and survival is literally hand to mouth. They are clothed in rags forget hoodies!

Sure the cops in London are seething. If only they could unleash. Considering as to what started this fiasco, what can one expect.

Cheers..

 

On a positive note its great to see the local communities coming together to help with the clean up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvKxCGDiLOI

Apparently there are more people helping to clean up than there were rioters,I think that's a more accurate measure of our society.

 

You're lucky that you saw the guy before he tossed the "fire bomb" and that you were able to catch him. You could have lost your house.

You're also lucky that you are physically able to react that way, otherwise there would have been a much different outcome.

Had someone done that here in the US, and that kid was a member of a gang,
you may have put your life in jeopardy,
the gangs are so violent, many or most have guns and are quite willing, ready and able to use them.

Good for you, and I'm glad it worked.

 

Rage against the machine...:-D

http://www.break.com/index/how-the-london-riots-got-started-2116286

Karma

http://www.break.com/index/rioter-gets-blindsided-2115313

 

I really don't want this to sound like I'm down playing the situation but a gun wouldn't have made much difference, I've had a gun pointed at me twice, a 4-10 shotgun and a rifle of some sort. Some would call it stupidity but I was raised with the "We're British" mentality, much like the US's thinking of defending your home and nation, at any cost, do what needs to be done.
This is not to say I have no fear, I'm pretty easily scared but what will be , will be and I'm not going to be walked over by anyone.
I feared reprocussions after the fact, what was to stop him comming back later that night or a week or month later? Absolutely nothing, I think it comes down to judging whether or not the offender is bluffing, I felt he was bluffing and I called it.
But in all honesty, what else would I have done? The situation called for a response, I responded.
As for physical position, thats a different story, I've always been fairly agile, especially back then, had it been my neighbour who was a great old gent in his late 60's, it could have had a very different outcome, but for 2 or 3 years prior to the incident I basically sat in my front yard from 7pm-2am every friday night through the summer and defend my property and surrounding area. The incident I drescribed was the straw that broke the camels back.

@Sikvik... I agree whole heartedly, half of these idiots have never really worked, many of them either too young or on some form of welfare. Like most of the football riots of the 80's, this is just a bunch of guys looking for a ruck, a fight, an excuse to brawl and wage mini wars and in the lowest of them... to loot, steal and pillage thier own neighbours. Bastards!

@Rikky.... There's an old saying I've often used and lived my life by, "There is always some good in EVERY situation" , it's just a matter of finding it, this video shows the good that has come from this mess and as you say really shows what our great nations natives can really do when we band together.

Camaraderie, once again, the platinum lining around a very dark cloud hanging over Britain.