i5 Cooling Questions

I'm getting ready to do a build of several rack-mount PCs for a radio station.

* ASRock ATX Z77 socket 1155 motherboard.
* On-board video and audio.
* 4U rack mount case
* Intel i5 CPU
* RAID 5 (3x 1TB WD Caviar Black HDDs)
* No overclocking
* Software is for radio station automation (music, commercials, etc.) - no heavy CPU loads (e.g. gaming, video editing, etc.).

The kink in this project is the rack itself: It's a three-sided, non-ventilated box built into the control panel furniture. As such, the only air intake will be from the fan(s) at the front of the case. On top of this (since it's in a broadcast studio), the fan(s) will have to be library quiet which will reduce the total CFM of air flow.

My questions are:

* Given the above specs (no overclocking), will the stock (OEM) Intel 1155 fan provide sufficient cooling or should I upgrade to a more powerful (but quiet) CPU fan?

* Do socket 1155 i5 CPUs run hot (as the original 1366 i7 did), based on others' experiences with the current generation of i5 chips?

* Should I tell the radio station to ditch the stylish, non-ventilated rack in favor of a basic one that's open on the sides and back?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

OEM coolers are the ONLY coolers designed specifically for the CPUs they support. Aftermarket coolers are more universally designed to support many coolers, from multiple CPU maker. That introduces compromises. OEM coolers are also the only coolers with warranties that cover CPU replacement. And of course, the use of aftermarket coolers on CPUs that come packaged with OEM coolers, voids the warranty.

No.

If you are responsible for the design, then absolutely! You MUST go on record.

I am rather surprised your racks do not have better cooling options. If they are not opened, then it sounds like they were designed to be used on an elevated computer floor, where forced cooled air is blown up from the bottom.

In other words, it sounds like you have the wrong racks for the job.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

I agree each CPU does not have its own customized HSF assembly. But you cannot automatically take an Intel cooler and plop it on an AMD CPU. Intel coolers (and clamping mechanisms) are for Intels, and AMD's are for AMDs. Universal aftermarket coolers are... ...universal. And like pretty much all universal, once size fits all, products, make compromises to "fit" as many "different" applications.

"Make a couple mods"? So? What mod does that universal cooler have to "tailor" it to my CPU?

Come on! No disrespect, but that is a silly statement! You cannot pick and choose "extreme" environmental "exceptions" and apply that as the normal rule! Exceptions don't make the rule!

You suggest Intel and AMD do not thoroughly test their coolers - in the same breath! - you imply the after-market cooler makers do! rolleyes

Got any links/proof that Intel does not test their products? Note that both AMD and Intel warranty their coolers for 3 years. Most aftermarket coolers are for 1. Some, just 90 days. Yes, I have seen 6 years, but we are not talking exceptions - which take a lot of homework to find.

ONLY Intel and AMD will replace your CPU if, by some rare event, the CPU fries due to fan failure. Not one aftermarket cooler will. Why not - especially if so rare an event. Longer warranties, in my mind, means better bearings. And when it comes to fans, better bearings means less vibration and friction.

Well, sorry, but IMO you have always done it wrong then!

You are compensating for your case's failure. It is the case's responsibility to provide the necessary front-to-back flow of cool air through the case. The CPU heatsink fan has the responsibility to displace the CPU's heat into that flow by pushing supplied cooled air onto the heatsink.

If not doing any extreme overclocking and your CPUs are not staying cool (and I don't begin to worry until they peak and linger above 60°), then you need to add another case fan, or replace those with larger fans, or fans that move more air (note the inherent problem with tiny notebook cases?).

On sites that allow more signature options, I end my sig with Heat is the bane of all electronics!. Unless hit with a hammer, it is always heat that takes out a device. But that does not mean cooler automatically equals longer life. As long as the electronics stay within their "normal operating range" (which is generally where humans are comfortable), they will likely have a normal life. Most CPUs today remain completely stable above 70°. But again, I like mine below 60°C.

So for 95% of the users out there the OEM cooler is just fine.

IF you operate your computer in extreme conditions such as high ambient temps, or with extreme overclocking, or "silent running" environments, then an aftermarket (active or passive) cooler may be required. Just understand, if the CPU came packaged in a retail box with a supplied OEM cooler, you void the warranty. If not a concern, and for many, it is not, then no big deal. But is is something everyone needs to know to make an informed decision.

And please understand I am VERY VERY sympathetic to "silent running" - my "career" roots are as a radio technician and my personal roots before computers is in supporting audiophile-quality electronics - if a client spends $30k plus on just the speakers, he's not going to be happy with me if his new HTPC fan noise is droning out the silence. But then again, it is all about the case.

Like I said, it is all about the case - or in this case, the entire cabinet. Computers (fully populated motherboards) are not designed to be stacked on top of each other. There are too many heat generating component that need ventilation. They have "quiet rack cooling solutions" for that.

While the OEM fans are noted for their quietness, I assure you, buying aftermarket IN NO WAY implies a quieter cooler. In fact, many aftermarket coolers are very loud. They cool well, but they may also be louder than the OEMs.

Also, because the OEM coolers are warrantied for 3 years and neither AMD nor Intel want to replace them under warranty, they are excellent, reliable, quality made coolers. They are not cheaply made. Don't go buying a $20 aftermarket CoolerMaster and assume it is a better cooler (in ANY aspect) than the OEM. A brand name does not automatically mean better than the original.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

Luckily, since this is a new station going on the air in October, the control room furniture won't be ordered for about two weeks.

I am telling the client not to order the "designer" rack from Arrakis Systems. Instead, I am going on record for a basic black 4-post rack that is open on the sides, back and top. I'll be using extra quiet case fans. Based on my experience building a tower PC for audio production a few months ago, this should be sufficiently quiet for in-studio use.

You validated what I was thinking. Thanks for the advice.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

A few things to ponder over:

Several rack-mounted multi-HDD equipped PC's (with UPS too?) inside a miked up broadcast studio - what's the baseline ambient temperature and noise levels in the studio with aircon switched on? What TDP are the i5's?

Consider moving the RAIDs to eSATA in an adjoining room, distance limits would be sub 6 feet for cables.

Or move them out wholesale and use a quiet ultrabook + ext. monitor with RDP to control them?

ITX 'boards will draw less power, less power = less heat to be dissipated, fans can be quieter, ...

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

The lowest TDP i5 I've been able to find through my wholesalers is the i5-2400S @ 65 watts. Although an i3 @ 35w TDP could be used instead, I believe in "future proofing" by building well above the minimum specs required for the current version of the software.

Since this is a new studio build, I suspect the AC system will be a typical radio studio (cold enough to be used as a meat locker :-D). Although I haven't seen the final blueprints yet, I also suspect there will be acoustic sound deadening materials on the walls.

My recommendation is to place the rack below the counter/table surface. If they decide to place the rack on top of the counter/table at eye level next to the mixing board, I'll have to look at Digerati's suggestion of a ventilated ultra-quiet HTPC rack.

There will be a RAID5 NAS in another room for backups of all PCs in the station. The RAID5 on the in-studio PCs will (based on the layout I've seen so far) have to be housed in the PC case. Since the station will be totally automated (no humans around) at night, I feel this is critical to avoid an extended period of "dead air" if a drive fails (Murphy's Law).

The UPS system has yet to be determined. Since I doubt they'll spend thousands extra on a huge single hardwired UPS, my thought is to stick some fanless APC 1500 units under the counter. Given there will also be a backup generator in place, the UPS will only have to cover things for, at most, 2-3 minutes.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

Sorry. Obviously, I left out the word "not". Had you not taken that segment out of context, it would have been obvious since the rest of the sentence said, "buying aftermarket IN NO WAY implies a quieter cooler."

I stated it. I said it is the case's responsibility to provide adequate cool air.

The rest of your post has taken on a personal, argumentative tone, so I am out of here.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

I wish that were true. But sadly many cases are as good as the no-name generic power supplies inside them. Some come with very limited fan options.

The problem is, with forums, you cannot see facial expressions, body language, or tone of voice to see the emotion behind the statement. So we should not read any into it! But, sadly, too often when someone expresses opposing technical viewpoints they are taken personally, then personal insults ensue. Why? That's silly.

Instead of discussing the technical facts, you launch a "looooong boring diatribe" personal affront against me that was much longer than many of my boring diatribes you were forced to endure.

I am sorry - I knew what I was trying to say - sorry I did not express it well. I should have said,

"Intel OEM coolers are designed specifically for Intel CPUs and AMD OEM coolers are designed specifically for AMD CPUs.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I sure did not expect it lead to stuff like. "Your titles don't impress me." My title is AFE7Ret and it is there because I am proud of it. The MVP is an award, not a title.

Now whether I know what I am talking about is another matter. Anyone can follow the link in my profile and decide if I might or not.

BTW, I never said I was against aftermarket coolers. I have a couple Zalmans here, and a passive cooler in my HTPC. But most users don't know and most forum regulars (who are NOT normal users) don't care that using an aftermarket cooler voids the warranty. But as soon as that is mention - whoa, stand back! Suddenly defending OEM coolers is a crime.

Well guess what? They are good products, fully capable of protecting their charge in most (save the extreme) conditions - if the case is providing enough air.

No, I stepped out because instead of debating the facts, you post this puerile crap and personal insults.
Generic is NOT OEM. Generic is no-name. I call Intel and AMD very well known brand names.

Right. That's why I am out of here. Your inside information on how Intel and AMD and all the aftermarket cooler makers test their fans is proof enough for me I stayed too long.

Sorry for these distractions, gman.

 

Re: i5 Cooling Qusetions

Gentlemen/Ladies, please cool it!

This forum is for technical help. Technical help has been provided and the OP has gone away happy (I hope). Please drop the petty bickering.

Have a nice day!

 

I finished the first PC this afternoon. :celebrate

Using an Enermax Enlobal 120mm as the front intake and 2x 60mm Silenx exhaust fans in the back, it's quiet. Unless you put your ear directly up to the case, you hear nothing. Core temp is staying around 50C; CPU usage is staying low (<10%) during software install.

Thanks to everyone who posted for the tips.